Chlois (Chloe=Lois) Debate Thread: Part V

[Chiriru]

The Chlois Theory
Chloe's Pseudonym; Chloe = The Real Lois Lane

General Theory: The Lois Lane we are familiar with from the comics (i.e. star reporter of the Daily Planet and love interest of Clark Kent/Superman) went by the name Chloe Sullivan while she was growing up and that Lois chooses to adopt her iconic name as the result of events that occur in the 'Smallville' series.

Parallelling Chlois and EDLois
These are items that show how SV has "leveled" the girls together. Corafly is on this.

1. Working as journalists at a major Metropolis newspaper:

Chloe initially worked as a columnist at the Daily Planet after striking a deal with Lionel Luthor. She subsequently lost the column after reneging on her deal with Lionel (SV3.11, Delete) but regained a spot, albeit at the bottom ranks, after proving her worth and talent to the current editor of the Daily Planet, Pauline Kahn (SV5.06, Thirst).

EDLois began working as a tabloid reporter for the Inquisitor after submitting and an article about a barn door that had come out of nowhere and nearly hit her, which was subsequently published by the paper (SV6.02, Sneeze).

2. Passion for journalism:

From the inception of Smallville, Chloe has always expressed a passion for journalism with a dream to eventually work at the Daily Planet (SV1-6, including SV1.20, Obscura; SV2.20, Witness; SV3.11, Delete; SV5.05, Thirst).

Despite previous disclaimers that journalism was not her ‘thing’, EDLois has now announced that journalism may in fact be her “calling” (SV6.02, Sneeze).

3. EDLois and Chloe have used the name ‘Lois Lane’ on articles submitted to major Metropolis papers:

Chloe Sullivan provided Max Taylor (editor of the Daily Planet) with the name ‘Lois Lane’ as a pseudonym or pen name for a hard news article about Sommerhalt’s testing of people. While Max Taylor wanted to publish the article, he was killed, and the article was later intercepted by Lex Luthor therefore remaining unpublished (SV3.11, Delete).

EDLois has thus far published three articles at the Inquisitor. One article was about a barn door with an added editorial spin about aliens (SV6.02, Sneeze). Another article was about the Green Arrow Bandit with self-admitted altered fact (SV6.04, Arrow). The third article was in regard to being kidnapped by the Green Arrow when SafeTEX kidnapped EDLois (SV6.04, Arrow).

4. Military connections in the family:

General Sam Lane is Chloe’s uncle (SV4.02, Gone).

General Sam Lane is Lois’ father, which coincides with the familial history of ILL in the Modern and Iron Age versions of the comics (SV4.02, Gone).

5. Distrustful of Lex Luthor:

Chloe has become distrustful of Lex and his motives, with a transition from someone she can turn to for assistance and rely on (SV3.21, Forsaken; SV3.22, Covenant) to someone whom she is increasingly wary of as Lex becomes more obsessed with Clark, Meteor Freaks and power (SV5.02, Mortal). More recently Chloe has noted that Lex is a “shark”; and despite trying to hold back her “skepticism” about Lex, Chloe still feels the need to warn Lana that she “doesn’t know the Luthors like Chloe [sic] does” (SV6.08, Static).

EDLois develops a distrust of Lex when he begins campaigning for Senate because he reminds her of the “pseudo-politicians” she grew up around and because he calls her a “muffin-peddler” (SV5.08, Solitude). However, later in the episode, Lois admits that while her dislike of Lex stems from the fact that he insulted her, she is genuinely worried about what will happen if he comes into power (SV5.08, Solitude).

6. Working relationship/interaction with Detective Sawyer:

In the same episode, EDLois and Chloe interact with Detective Sawyer which foreshadows ILL’s and Clark Kent’s (and Superman’s) future working relationship with the police officer (SV5.06, Exposed).

7. Relentless (in the pursuit of truth/a story):

Chloe has noted that she can be relentless and completely focused when she is pursuing a story and the truth, noting that she gets “carried away” once she goes “Woodward and Bernstein” (SV5.13, Vengeance). Moreover, Chloe has stated that “ferreting out the truth is acting normal for me” (SV5.19, Mercy). Smallville has also devoted an entire episode to specifically look at Chloe’s blind determination to find and print the truth, and the consequences of such actions (SV3.18, Truth).

Clark mentions that EDLois is on a “one woman crusade” to discover about the truth about the barn door that mysteriously appeared from the skies and almost killed her. Clark goes on further to say: "You know Lois [sic], she won't stop digging until she hits China." (SV6.02, Sneeze). Furthermore, EDLois has also demonstrated her tenacity for the truth and a story, when she stated that “she’s not going to stop” until she finds out who the Green Arrow is (SV6.04, Arrow).

It has also been implicitly shown in a couple of episodes of Smallville that EDLois and Chloe (equally) share a relentless drive to determine the truth. This includes when both EDLois and Chloe continue to pursue the story about the murdered stripper (SV5.06, Exposed). In addition, EDLois has noted that journalism is about “chasing story after story that only leads to dead ends” and that she “never be able to let go”, wherefore Chloe replies, “That’s usually how it starts” (SV5.08, Solitude). The scene implies that EDLois would be relentless in pursuit of a story and that Chloe initially got into journalism because of her inability to let go of a story.

8. Dysfunctional families:

Chloe’s mother left when she was five without an explanation, leaving Chloe to grow up believing that her mother was not “interested” in her (SV2.07, Lineage). After years of searching, Chloe eventually discovers that her mother is now in a mental institution suffering from a hereditary mental condition (SV4.10, Scare; SV5.14, Tomb).

EDLois’s mother died when she was six and something in her father “cracked” and he has been overprotective since (SV4.02, Gone). Furthermore, EDLois notes that she was “dragged around the world like a spare piece of luggage” and never really had a dad (SV4.16, Lucy).

9. Fiercely competitive:

EDLois has been shown to be competitive, when talking about the Green Arrow to Chloe and her reluctance to share information about a potential story with her cousin (SV6.04, Arrow).

The above episode/scene also demonstrates EDLois’ awareness that Chloe is also fiercely competitive and would “scoop” EDLois for the Green Arrow story. This is later reinforced in the episode by Clark’s statement to Chloe about her “competitive streak” and Chloe’s admittance that she has withheld information about the Green Arrow’s ring from Lois (SV6.04, Arrow).

[in prog]

Anti-Chlois Evidence: (20 items)
These are items about EDLois/Anti-Chlois, compiled by SuperKael:
1)Lois has always liked/dated edgy, mysterious/powerful men who played by their own rules (other than superman).[TAS, comics, LnC]
(http://www.batman-superman.com/superman/cmp/lois.html)
-Edlois has dated aquaman, fade dude, and GA. All mysterious, all play by their own rules.

2)Lois, in particular, is fiercely, sometimes unscrupulously, competitive, resorting to such tactics as intercepting Kent’s telephone messages
(http://supermanica.info/wiki/index.php/Lois_Lane)
-Edlois showed this kind of behavior in season 6 when talking about GA.(arrow)

3)Lois Lane’s younger sister is Lucy Lane (Act No. 272, Jan 1961: “Superman’s Rival, Mental Man!”; and others),
-Edlois’ younger sister IS Lucy Lane(Lucy, Season 4)

4)the daughter of Sam and Mrs. Lane (SF No. 172, Aug/Sep 1975 IRON AGE + MODERN)
-Edlois is the daughter of Sam and Mrs. lane in Smallville.(season 4)

5)“reckless” and “stubborn” (Act No. 122, Jul 1948: “The Super Sideshow!”),
-Edlois has been shown to be reckless(season 4 Devoted, season 5 arrival)

6)Lois Lane has martial arts skills (comics, animated series, Smallville, Lois & Clark)
-EDdlois in SV canon has army training in certain fighting styles/stances.( season 4 ep2, devoted, fanatic)

7)Lois Lane is a bad speller (Lois & Clark, the movies (old and new), Smallville)
-Edlois is a bad speller(season4, season 6 sneeze?)

8)Lois Lane calls Clark 'Smallville' as a nick name (animated series, comics, Smallville, )
-EDlois calls Clark smallville(since season 4

9)Lois Lane is a bad cook (Lois & Clark, comics, Smallville)
-EDlois is a bad cook in smallville and is known by clark to have that bad ability(season4, 5(baking) )

10)Lois Lane teases, pushes his buttons so much that makes clark push back(comics, Lois & Clark, animated series)
-EDlois is pretty much the ONLY one who pushes his buttons soo much that it annoys clark sometimes(blood boil) (season 4 – 5

11)Lois Lane has kissed/dated(batman) JLA Members OTHER than Superman/Clark(comics, animated series)
-EDlois is so far the only “candidate” do kiss “superheroes” other than clark(superman) those being Aquaman and Green Arrow.(Aqua, Arrow/season 6)

12)Lois does not know the truth about Clark prior to him becoming Superman(comics, animated series, movies, LnC)
-Edlois doesn’t know clark’s secret so far(season 4 -6)

13)Lois does not date Clark until he becomes Superman.(comics, animated series, LnC)
-Edlois has not dated Clark (season 4-6)

14)Lois competes with Clark at the DP(comics, animated series, LnC)
-Edlois has a competitive attitude towards clark (reunion)

15)the season lois met clark, lois and clark bickered constantly(LnC)
-season Edlois and clark met, they bickered constantly

16)TPTB wanted to do a ILL pre series with the teen titans and ILL working at a tabloid
-season 6 showed Edlois apply and work at a tabloid

17)Lois Lane has never betrayed clark for a job(accepting the job at the DP instituted a betrayal)
-chloe betrayed clark for a job

18)In the history of knowledge when the name of the father of ILL , Gabe has never been a name of choice
-Chloe’s dad’s name is Gabe Sullivan.

19)Lois Lane was born and raised as Lois Lane throughout her teen hood.(comics, going to camp with clark, internship with clark at the DP)
-Chloe’s name is Chloe Sullivan in highschool and continues to be at the DP.

20)Lois Lane mostly has black or brown hair(comics, LnC, TAS)
-chloe’s hair is blonde, Edlois is brown.

Pro-Chlois Evidence (twenty items):
These are items that side proChlois/ see like that. Compiled by Chris.
1) Al & Miles are known to do what they want whether they have permission or not. Their first pitch was for a young Lois Lane series, a later pitch was for a young Lois and Clark in Smallville, when they were denied the use of Lois they created a young reporter whose hair was bleached blonde and had a lot of "L's" in her name. Al & Miles have also referred to Chloe as their "proto-Lois" and originally described Chloe as everything their ideal Lois should be (various sources including the "Pilot" commentary).

2) The first seasons of many shows serve as an overview of what the entire series will look like (because renewal isn't nearly as assured and they want to make sure they get their important points in). Smallville's first season ended with Clark moving past Lana and admitting his feelings for Chloe, who was possibly leaving forever for Metropolis. Likewise, when the producers thought for certain that season five would be their last they rushed Chloe into the Daily Planet and moved her up the ranks and laid the groundwork for a Chlark relationship while doing nothing of consequence with the character played by Erica Durance.

3) Leaving aside Clark's arrival on Earth, Lois Lane is always among the first of the iconic characters introduced in any Superman story (usually right after his parents). Apart from his parents (and Clark himself), Chloe Sullivan is the first character introduced to the viewers (before we are even introduced to the adult Lana Lang). Curiously, Chloe is not actually called by name until the second episode of the series, and the viewers are left to wonder (in a world with a raven-haired Lana and a black Pete) just who this young blonde reporter is. Lois Lane has always been there from the very beginning of the Superman legend and Chloe Sullivan is there from the very beginning of this legend.

4) Chloe has numerous career points in common with Iconic Lois Lane. She's always dreamed of being a reporter for the Daily Planet (all major versions of the character have loved journalism from an early age and dreamed of working for the Daily Planet), she first interned there at the age of fifteen (Iron Age Lois first worked for the Planet at the age of fifteen), wrote an advice column under Editor George "Max" Taylor (Golden Age Lois got her start writing an advice column under Editor George Taylor), works at the Planet while attending Met-U (Iron Age Lois worked at the Planet while attending Met-U), earned her way in despite the doubts of the editor by bringing her a story that ultimately is not published (Iron Age Lois gets her job by bringing Perry White a story that is ultimately not published).

5) Chloe's professional idols are Perry White and Nellie Bly (Lois Lane's idols are Perry White and Nellie Bly). Interestingly enough, Nellie Bly (who is often cited as the original inspiration for the character of Lois Lane) is actually the pseudonym of Elizabeth Cochrane.

6) Throughout the series Chloe has been shown to be on a journey that parallels those of Lex and Clark. They have also gone to the effort of tying her to Clark and Lex in places that are extremely destiny specific (such as the caves at the end of "Commencement") despite the fact that she is supposedly an non-iconic character.

7) On the romantic front, the writers have never really let Chloe move on from Clark (even her relationship with Jimmy is set up as a triangle with Clark). Every year the writers give us at least a single kiss as a reminder that there is something there and it was revealed that Chloe was Clark's first real kiss (Lois is often portrayed as Clark's first real kiss). Their most recent (and first mutual non-mind-whammied) kiss was in an iconic location, as Clark is preparing to go off an iconic task, and has John William's iconic score blasting in the background. In terms of shot composition and set up, Chloe and Clark are almost often filmed in lengthy two-shots with equal dominance, wedding stances, and over the shoulder close-ups... all shots that emphasize the notion that these two are equals and partners (the only other major use of these shots was for Jonathan and Martha Kent). (In the comics Lois and Clark are regarded as equals and partners.)

8) The current comic canon ("Birthright") describes Lois Lane's most important trait as her being a "woman of remarkble compassion" and as Clark's example of the best in humanity. On "Smallville" Clark has, on more than one occassion referred to Chloe in regards to the best of humanity and has called her the most compassionate person he's ever met.

9) A number of extremely potent Chlois anvils (the "Fever" letter, the ending voice-over of "Thirst") have been written specifically by Al & Miles personally. Likewise, in a vision of the future that laid out a roadmap for the rest of the series, the writers took deliberate steps to ensure that Chloe was never called by name and used incredibly clunky dialogue ("Miss Did I Mention My Book's About to be Published") in order to draw attention to them not using the name Chloe.

10) Chloe entered into a deal with Lionel Luthor that mirrored a deal Lois made with Lex in the comics. Both regretted their deals and tried their best to sabotage them (in Chloe's case she never actually betrays any of Clark's secrets and actively keeps his whereabouts a secret from everyone over the summer) and their loved ones ultimately paid the price for it. These arcs also reached their climax with Chloe and Lois trying to bring down Luthor they had made their deal with. During this arc Chloe attempted to use the pen name of Lois Lane in order to continue to write for the Daily Planet.

11) Lois Lane's family life has always been updated to fit with the times. She has been an orphan, an only child, had numerous siblings, and had one younger sister at various points. Her father has been completely absent, happily married, unhappily married, divorced, dead, a farmer, an army officer, a scientist, and worked for Lex Luthor at various points. Chloe's father is a blend of traits from past versions of Lois' father; absent and divorced and a plant manager for Lex Luthor in an agriculture based business. Her family life fits the times.

12) In the comics Clark's superhearing has a special sensitivity to Lois' voice and heartbeat. On "Smallville" Clark is shown to have to focus in order to use his super-hearing on all things except for Chloe, whose voice (even a whisper from across a crowded room) he has picked up on without conscious effort on multiple occassions.

13) Just as Lois Lane's family life is updated to fit the times, so is her skills-set in order to ensure that she is the best reporter in the world. The current Lois in the comics is shown to extremely tech-saavy, as is Chloe.

14) Chloe Sullivan was the first (and, until "Zod," the only) human being to ever step foot into the Fortress of Solitude. Lois Lane is one of the first to ever enter the Fortress in other versions of the story.

15) The Silver-Age set up Lois and Lana as romantic rivals for Superman's affection and had them set up as roommates in college. Chloe and Lana were set up as romantic rivals for Clark's affection and became roommates in college.

16) Lois Lane has a way with words and almost always comes out on top of verbal sparring matches, even against Lex. Chloe is known for her way with words and her wit and holds her own in verbal sparring matches with Lex.

17) Chloe is all about finding the truth, will take great risks to discover the truth. She does not take the easy way out (and the one time she did it blew up in her face) and she takes threats as a personal challenge. This also exactly describes comic Lois.

18) Lois Lane is always well educated and hard working (you might even say she's a workaholic). She had a college degree when just finishing high school was a mark of excellence. Chloe was her class' valedictorian, takes a full load of college classes while working at the Daily Planet and goes above and beyond the call there as well. She is easily the most educated and hardest working of the "kids" on the show.

19) Chloe's hair is often styled to match past versions of Lois Lane and her clothing often matches styles and even specific outfits worn by past Lois Lanes and this occurs far too often for it to be a mere accident.

20) Chloe is Clark's most steadfast ally and confidante who has even managed to save him on a few occassions. Lois Lane is Superman's most steadfast ally and confidante and has also managed to save him on few occassions.

Feel free to request additional lines be added or lines to be edited to either of these, up to 20 line items each (to keep it readable).

Iconic Lois Lanes of Prior Versions
These are basic facts about other 'main' versions of ILL that are used as a basis point.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Debate Thread Rules
History
The original Chlois Debate Thread started when the first spoilers for episode 311, Delete, were leaked. The spoilers indicated that Chloe was going to try to write for the Daily Planet under the name Lois Lane. Since then, it's become a very active thread discussing prior and upcoming SV canon, canon from other shows/movies/comics in the Supermanverse, and sometimes even Joe Campbell, Cinderella, or other miscellaneous references pop-up.

In December, 2005, the first thread hit so many posts that it was problematic to continue loading it and filter through to find past arguments and quote them, so we opened up a second thread. The second thread quickly reached nearly 500 pages within 7 month's time.

The debate thread continues to exist because of the passionate opinions both Pro-Chlois and Anti-Chlois fans have.

Debating
This is a debate thread!!!! There will be pro-Chloisers here. There will be anti-Chloisers here. Both are encouraged to give their opinions, state their reasons, provide support for their arguments, and engage in a healty & positive debate. And both parties will be listened to at all times.

To that end, please respect all viewpoints on this thread. Although the nature of a debate thread is heated, please follow the general K-Site Rules at all times. Please pay particular attention to the following rules:

3) We do not allow threats or insinuations of violence toward anyone, including the actors and production teams of the shows/movies discussed on these boards.

10) DISCUSSION ON THIS BOARD SHOULD AT ALL TIMES BE ABOUT THE SHOWS THEMSELVES, NOT OURSELVES, THE BOARDS, OTHER POSTERS OR OTHER FANS.
-- This includes comments calling pro-chloisers or anti-chloisers stupid, deluded, or any other insulting term.
-- This includes psychoanalyzing the reasons other members of the board feel the way they do
-- This includes turning debates into personal attacks against other posters. While the nature of debate requires you to post in response to other poster's points, please do not turn the debate into a negative attack against the poster.

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15) At no point should anyone tell anyone else, "If you don't like it then stop watching." People are allowed to have their opinions, even if that opinion is that Smallville/ Veronica Mars/ etc. is a terrible show.

Reminders
Because of the nature of these threads, we request that you try to read up on some of the ideas already presented. We will provide a crash course later this week in this very post for those of you who don't want to read through thousands of posts to participate.

The first thread can be found here .

The second thread can be found here

The third debate thread can be found here

The fourth debate thread can be found here

Consider this a reminder to re-read the rules/TOS. If you have a problem with another poster take it to PM or contact a moderator.

Spoilers, obviously, will be talked about in this thread.

If you want to link something, PM Veaglarwen or Chiriru or one of the other mods first.

If you do not wish to debate but still want your opinion to be heard, please go to the General Discussion Thread!!!

Basic Assumptions:

What is SV Canon?
Smallville canon includes anything written by the producers/writers of the show which is designed to be a part of the Official Smallville Universe. That includes Chronicles, Comic Books, Torch and Ledger articles, Verizon Commercials, Novelizations, etc.

What about media?
You are welcomed to post media here but be sure that it is always always always posted in the Chlois media thread first. This thread gets so large and moves so fast that we need an easy place to refer to the media so all media discussed in the Debate thread SHOULD be found in the media thread.

Smallville does what it wants
The Chlois theory is based on the knowledge that Smallville is rewriting/reimagining/reimaing the superman mythology. This means that anything goes and any character's backstory can be changed (i.e. Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman).
Does this mean that they can make Lois Lane not interseted in journalism? Of course. But it also means they can change Lois' history to be the Lois Lane who was once called Chloe Sullivan as well, and that is the avenue we are branching down for this thread.

Can I state things like 'Lois is Lois and Chloe is Chloe'?
No. That goes in gen thread. This is the debate thread, all statements must come with some sort of support. This thread is based on the assumption that something is not something else. If you just want to state your opinion without any canon, that goes over there as well. Opinions are fine but that is why there is a separate thread for it. If your not sure whether to post here or in the gen thread, PM a mod.

--------------

Those on each side who want to update their lists, PM me. It's been a year so people might be interested. Additionally if people want me to repost the Initialisms that's fine, (SA, GA, et all) I can do that too.

Also if one wants a new topic to kick off on, we can do that as well. (Spoilers could be good to do that from.)

ETA: Because I thought I copied this and didn't: Craig's ruling on language and offensive words and such still stands people.

[margroks]

What remains important is that Clark end up with the legitimate heir to the legacy of iconic Lois Lane and I see that very much as Chloe since it is she who has fulfilled all the essential points of ILLL to date.

And no, it doesn't follow that Lana can be Lois at all. Lana has not fulfilled the requirments of being ILL. She is not the girl who wanted to be a reporter from the tender age of eight. SHe has not worked hard to get where she is, having the experience and being fully qualified to work at the DP both before and after her disastrous, however brief, early alliance with Lionel which ultimately did not work in her favor. Lana is not qualified to jump into work at the DP any more than the girl who carries the name of Lois Lane is now. So no; that argument doesn't track.

"Everybody" does not agree with the assessment of Chloe continually pining for Clark and doing nothing else and that is not supported by canon at all. Chloe has called Clark on things from the beginning and would not sacrifice her convictions just to gain Clark's attention as has been suggested recently. The Chimmey plot, boring though it was in large part, was set up to make clear that Chloe is not sitting home pining for Clark and she has never been a girl who had to have a man on her arm to be happy as we've seen from EDlois at times and especially from Lana. ILL has certainly been depicted as unlucky in love but never as having to have a guy in tow; she's notably a workaholic as well as educated and never very much on the dating scene.

[Chiriru]

Yeah, I never buy LL as a role model for academics

That's interesting to me, because she was college educated at a time when most women weren't.

If you remember LnC Cat Grant was the one that use her sex appeal (and showed her underwaer for everyone to see was well)
to get stories and gifts I even remember and episode in wich Thlois tried to be sexy and she mocked her

Well what I always see the line is (because Teri was very attractive) is in the S1 christmas episode with the heat wave? Jimmy is in a tank top. Perry is in shorts. Cat is in a bikini. Lois is still in a very professional shirt and skirt. It's not unattractive, it's a flattering combo on THLois. But it's just a realm apart from that bring yellow bikini.

SV is telling its own story and it, being a TV serial, they should adhere to their own canon to do so. Whether or not they do is debateable, but when you argue Iconic is the only thing that matters, I can't agree.
The SV canon is VERY important in terms of telling their story and what they set up and the way their characters are is more important than trying to tell the story we all know because they've already demonstrated that the "traditional" version is NOT what they're trying to be.
Being Iconic is important, but I don't think it's the only thing that matters.

I agree; I think even for a lot of viewers paying off their story first (without going off like Clark becomes a star iceskater tangents) is important.

There's a difference in being fooled while suspicious that something is up and in downright, not ever taking the time to look into it, which is a big difference in Chloe's "being fooled" and EDLois' "being fooled".

Chloe knew something was up with Clark and did all she could to figure out what it was, Clark covered his tracks, and when she got busted by him for making a deal with Lionel in regards to his secret, she backed off, until she would finally see what that difference was about Clark Kent.

Which fits pretty well in line with Lois Lane thinking there was Something Up starting in the 1940's.

This shows that Lois, if falls in love with Clark later on, falls for superman why? I guess for the outfit meaning she fell for the disguise not the man and thats... sad

Agreed; it's a regression in the worst way.

Considering that, in no way was it a good idea for them to start her off as a completely average, non-intellectual 21-year-old with no interest in journalism and no skills at investigating or solving mysteries. Since that is what they did, it's hard for me to imagine that there wasn't some kind of agenda behind it.

Especially when they've taken pains (Reunion, Zero, Progeny, Memoria, Lineage) to clue us in about how Lex and Clark (and Chloe) were as little kids, that they can't escape their fates.

I think by placing all the emphasis on the "iconic" nature of what the story SHOULD be, you're missing out on the SV canon that is showing us what the story IS.

Well I think there is a balance. You can't have Lex turn into the cat lady down the street or Clark end up figure skating champeon of the world. There is some wiggle room built into the series; the key is when you look at Clark and Lex is that they cherry pick the best of canon and use the left overs in side characters (like Lionel). So when Chloe's had so much cherry picked for so long, yeah I have to look at what they are showing and have been showing.

Don't you find it odd that we've seen Clark, Lex, Lana, and Chloe as children, but don't really know all that much about EDLois' childhood?
All we know is that her mother died, her father raised her and her sister, and her sister is a criminal. Oh, and we got to meet her Drunken First Kiss of Inspiration who appeared in the worst rated episode of the entire series. We are told it, but never really shown it.
Yet, we SEE it with the other four, the core characters of the story because it's important to understand their "destinies" because THEY are important. Their development has a base from a young age and we can actually see their journey.

Totally! We meet their parents. We see their youth. We see their trials. We see how they directly cause one another. We hear how they meet. It's quite interesting.

et me add to that: Chloe has had her foibles along the way in her journey just as Lex and Clark have. She hadn't gotten the ethics thing down completely ("Truth" ). She learned how easily one can get trapped into the Luthors' deadly snare. She learned how doing something rash in a moment of emotional weakness can almost uproot long-standing friendships and trust, and she learned not to be freely trusting of others.

And like Clark and Lex, they keep throwing hurdles in her way to over come if I've heard correctly about the season.

Given AlMiles comments on the Comic-Con panel where they pretty much admit that Smallville is an AU I'd say our "worst" case scenario given the set-up of the series and the spoilers we have at present is a "Chlois In All But Name" ending (i.e. that Chloe becomes the start reporter of the Daily Planet and ends up with Clark Kent without ever having taken the name Lois Lane).

I think the fact that he said Clark and Kara had their costumnes kind of puts that in perspective too. That is he's super suit of sorts (five times fasts).

We don't know a bit of what EDLois will be doing in the premiere, but they're giving us a scene where Clark will be rescuing Chloe in a manner that, depending upon how precisely it is filmed, has the potential to mirror his rescue of her in "Obscura" (i.e. Chloe is trapped in a coffin and left for dead, but Clark uses his powers to find and free her) and we all know the shippy goodness that "Obscura" led to. A further visual element they will likely get to play with is that, if Chloe's been presumed dead and put into a drawer in the morgue then she's going to be wearing, at best, a sheet at the time of her rescue which, if the sheet is a crimson color (such as was used during Claire's autopsy scene on 'Heroes') or, more likely, if they have Clark wrap her up in his jacket (i.e. his cape analogue) then you get a shout-out to the classic LnC shot of THLois wearing nothing but Superman's cape (which interestingly enough was done back in "Devoted" with Chloe wearing nothing but Clark's red jersey emblazoned with a gold eight; i.e. the infinity symbol at the center of the Kryptonian version of the Superman emblem).

Which is interesting because what I've heard is that Chloe definately has lines and a part in the premiere and all of that. We know that Chloe gets up and finds out about Lana that way, and Craig and SAM talked about it quite a bit including the fact that we *know* he super-hears her (I think she says his name? I don't know.) which makes it pretty interesting.

Further, after having his butt handed to him by Bizarro and thinking that he's lost BOTH Lana and Chloe I'm expecting one heck of a Chlarky reunion scene (doubly so if AA isn't even in the episode).

Yes, AA was cut. Thing is everything should go wrong for Clark where we pick up because that's what happened in Phantom. We know that he hears her and finds her so logically that's the turning point (because saving Chloe isn't going to come last; she'll sufficate. Saving her isn't as big as defeating Bizarro either. And saving her spends time for Manhunter to return as well.)

This sorta proves the Chlois side's argument right there... they just admitted that the only way they could get EDLois into the DP was by lowering its standards to those of the Inquisitor.

And the thing is - that interests me - is that ED says that it's Grant's style that EDlo really wants to be like. That's... interesting.

Meanwhile Chloe's going to be interacting with Lex (and most likely Kara as well) and we know she's the one who's going to be bringing in a major scoop to the Planet in the very next episode so EDLois' role as 'teh bestest' reporter for the DP is anything but assured... whereas Chloe's bringing in a major scoop reaffirms that she's got what it takes to do the job without a lustful editor giving her a break.

Or even liking her. If they want drama between the girls, then Grant having preferrential treatment towards the girl he likes makes sense.

If you don't know it, its the story of an investigator who breaks all her moral and ethical rules in order to try and get Thomas Crowne, only to have him hoodwink her and still get away in the end; she sacrificed everything she believed in and got nothing for it in the end... which has been the point of a lot of Chloisers for a while, that they're setting up EDLois as the compare and contrast to Chloe. EDLois sacrifices truth to try and seems to get ahead at first, but in the end falls flat... while Chloe, who sticks to her principles, winds up coming out on top in the end.

And moreover, they say/show why she sticks to her principles (because she tried to sacrifice everything for personal gain as well knowing it was wrong, and got screwed). Could be the same arc being set up, but the difference was in S1 we have Chloe very definely knowing it's wrong; where as we don't have that clarity with EDLo in s6.

She's not going to get along with Lana and in the second episode she's going to kick EDLois' ass, which really only leaves one female cast member for her to bond with and that's Chloe. The fact that LV in one of her interviews mentions having already worked with and likes Allison tends to support this notion (we know from some other interviews that AM and KK's real life friendship is a big part of what created the onscreen Chlana friendship).

I think the interviews confirmed that Laura's not worked with anyone but Erica, Allison, and Tom yet; so I would guess that Kara interacts with Chloe first in 7.02 (sans Jimmy) in part because Chloe knows the truth about Clark. Kara doesn't have to hide from Chloe. Then enter Jimmy in to milk the whole repeat of Adam/Lana/Clark/Chloe from s3 with the players shifting around.

and is independent enough to not just reflexively take Clark's side

Which is perhaps why Sasha (Bee Girl from Drone) is the one to come back as 'cured'? Because that is a prime example of Chloe choosing what she thought was right over what would probably endear her to Clark more?

Except that we've been pretty much told that the Chimmy is over and what we're headed for now is Kara/Jimmy (which, if has not already been giving a formal title I hearby dub, Kimmy

That makes me think of Kimmy Gibler from Full House. But I do agree that they'll push the Kara and Jimmy thing from the sounds of the press releases; again it also fits in with Chimmy stealing the S3Clana mold.

Also interesting is that Jimmy is returning just as EDLois disappears. So much for seeing any sort of iconic Lois/Jimmy investigation from that quarter, which means we're likely to see the iconic investigation goodness coming from the Clark/Chloe/Jimmy side. Indeed, TW, AM, and AA were the only actors filming over the duration of Comic-Con so the odds are good we'll get some strong Chlarkimmy scenes in the early season.

I don't know if they were filming, but they were notibly absent (Al said MR was laid up with back surgery, we know JG was in a play, and I have it on good authority that KK was working on something else.) So I don't know if they were filming but I would guess from Craig saying that they were starting or working on #3 and filming around Laura (thus the others that went were just those who were 'off') means that logically *someone* was filming out of those who weren't there or noted as unable to come.

I was initially skeptical that they'd cure Chloe THIS early in the season. What changed my mind is that they stunt-cast Dean Cain as the guy who's behind the cure (incidentally, while some have poo-pooed the notion they would cast DC as a villain, it was actually done so at DC's request... he WANTED to play a villain)

Well and what fangirl or fanboy can say no to Clark vs. Clark; it's like. Wonderful.

For a Superman show, bringing in a former actor who played Superman is a fairly big deal and the fact that they're doing it for what looks to be a Chloe-centric episode that ED is going to be absent from says a lot

A bit like Progeny, eh? Using the big guns with Lex and Clark and seemingly given Fisher, Chloe.

More random/new scans to try to kick off discussion:

Scans
From 835: Jimmy. *headslap*

From the new Supergirl run
#11: Lois putting some tough love on Kara
#19: Lois ain't pleased
Yup, Lois is the 'bad cop'
Kind of

From a 1999 elseworld, "Superman Inc.":
Kal-El is rased as Dale Suderman.
Things don't go so well.
That may be an understatement.
He makes a friend called Marcus Clark And becomes a sport sensation. Note who is on the sports beat.
Dale's hair is unfortunate.
She left sports for 'real news'
Lois will NOT do a hatchet job on a guy.
She can't afford to start her own paper.
Oh Marcus.
And the truth starts to surface
Lois is NOT amused
Investigate
Lois is leaving to write her book.
Manhunter helps out.
Oh Marcus.
The Kents end up taking Dale in to get better eventually he does.
Not quite Met U.
Reminds me of the end of True Brit in a way.

[BlueDiamond]

batfinx: And that's all it's ever been is Chlark, period. If they have a romance be happy with it, but also know it won't last.

I really don't appreciate the Chlois movement being minimalized like that. The reason it exists is because Chloe both deserves more and is much more likely to achieve both parts of ILL's future role - DP's star reporter and Clark's girlfriend/wife - than her cousin is, based on all previous Smallville canon. If Smallville decides to go as AU as Chris described, in some way, I would rather Chloe be the star reporter and EDLois be in some other career and dating Clark. We know Clark has a history of falling for women who don't appreciate or deserve him, that would be far easier for me to swallow than someone like EDLois surpassing Chloe in their careers. EDLois has no skills, and no real interest in gathering any. She still doesn't understand why tabloid journalism is bad, and she'll continue to try to pursue it after getting unfairly hired at the DP.

And Chloe would want to be 'cured' of healing people because?

Because being regularly incapacited would seriously damage her ability to have a life, and because the power makes any scene where a character is in danger automatically void.

I don't know how you can say she is a totally avrage person.

...What? She gets wasted. She plays video games. She's anti-intellectual. She got her first two jobs because her friend's parents liked her. She'd rather start at the top of a tabloid than the bottom of a real newspaper. She is average - possibly even below average, but I'm being generous. There's nothing wrong with having a character like that, but it's not who the real Lois Lane is.

[myankskent]

For a Superman show, bringing in a former actor who played Superman is a fairly big deal and the fact that they're doing it for what looks to be a Chloe-centric episode that ED is going to be absent from says a lot

A bit like Progeny, eh? Using the big guns with Lex and Clark and seemingly given Fisher, Chloe.

I actually think that it says a lot to have Lois' first episode, Crusade, be one where Margot Kidder makes her only appearance on Smallville, which acts as Kidder sort of passing the torch over to Durance. You know what's even more interesting than that, however? Out of all of the episodes that AM has been in, she is NOT in this episode. Very interesting indeed so they can roll out countless guest stars for Chloe, but she failed to make an appearance in the one where a former Lois Lane actress appeared, that's the bottom line there.

[EllenF]

Yay, new thread. Hello, Chris-- always nice to see a post from you.

EDLois will apparently be making it into the DP in the second episode, but its important to acknowledge how she does so. They literally had to bring in an outside editor with no regard for the DP's standards and who is atttracted to EDLois in order to bring her into the paper. In other words, they had to set up a situation where all the usual standards of the paper were ignored for her to make it in the door. This sorta proves the Chlois side's argument right there... they just admitted that the only way they could get EDLois into the DP was by lowering its standards to those of the Inquisitor.

Well put. Shouldn't ILL be hired by a well-known, established editor with years of experience? Someone like Kahn or White? We know Chloe was hired by Kahn, and we know White was impressed by her writing (while admittedly believing her stories weren't true, since he really had no context and no way of knowing what Lowell County is like). Why would the writers go out of their way to create a new and extremely young editor, and give the DP new standards, to hire EDLois? It's as if they're calling attention to the fact that she isn't as good as Chloe. If she's good enough to be ILL, she should be good enough to get hired by one of the old guard, just as Chloe did.

Added to that is that the new editor is the one who will be giving EDLois a story to cover. She's not going to be finding it on her own.

Another apparent contrast to Chloe. Kahn didn't tell Chloe, "Go write this story and I'll see how well you handle it." She said, "Bring me a story."

...and we know she's the one who's going to be bringing in a major scoop to the Planet in the very next episode so EDLois' role as 'teh bestest' reporter for the DP is anything but assured... whereas Chloe's bringing in a major scoop reaffirms that she's got what it takes to do the job without a lustful editor giving her a break.

The setup we're reading about does in fact suggest they're handing things to EDLois, while forcing Chloe to scramble to prove herself. I'd expect the young ILL character to have obstacles thrown in her way by the writers, not just have everything given to her.

EDLois sacrifices truth to try and seems to get ahead at first, but in the end falls flat... while Chloe, who sticks to her principles, winds up coming out on top in the end.

Yes, it's a standard underdog setup. Chloe has been toiling for two years in the basement, and apparently is going to lose out to a new reporter, who gets the plum assignments (and we know from "Noir" that being sent out on assignment means you're making your way up the DP ladder). Since audiences will tend to root for the underdog, this is yet another suggestion that Chloe is being cast as the hard-working heroine in this scenario.

Except that we've been pretty much told that the Chimmy is over and what we're headed for now is Kara/Jimmy (which, if has not already been giving a formal title I hearby dub, Kimmy). Putting an end to the Chimmy is another pro-Chlois sign, especially in light of the potentially Chlarky setup from the previous episodes.

Kimmy. Love it.

Yes, certainly ending Chimmy is a big pro-Chlois sign. And no, that doesn't indicate that "all it's ever been is Chlark, period." It's almost certain that ILL winds up with Clark, so therefore both Clark and this show's Lois must slowly begin to move toward each other, and away from other romantic entanglements. Does that mean this next season will be full of Chlark kissyface? Not at all. Movement toward Chlark is not the same as full-on Chlark.

And the quickness with which they seem to be dispensing with Chimmy suggests that, yes, it WAS just an obstacle after all. Because if spoilers are correct, they sure aren't wasting any time moving on from it.

For a Superman show, bringing in a former actor who played Superman is a fairly big deal and the fact that they're doing it for what looks to be a Chloe-centric episode that ED is going to be absent from says a lot. Nois hasn't had any significant stunt casting since season four whereas Chloe's gotten Kahn, Hydro-girl, WonderMom, and now Dean Cain.

True. And this is HUGE stunt casting. If it showcases Chloe's storyline, as it appears almost certain to, that's yet another reminder that she's a genuinely central character, and not a mere plot device.

[meteor]

there was also the lounge singer act in Noir that paralleled the LnC lounge singer act, and that bit where EdLo was standing under the Daily Planet sign talking with Chloe about the journalism bug, at which she looked and the little Superman-esque jingle was played.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by EllenF
Why would the writers go out of their way to create a new and extremely young editor, and give the DP new standards, to hire EDLois?

In order to say that these new standards are worse, we first have to take a look at the old standards and I'm sorry, but the DP allowing a girl to cheat her way into the DP by working with a criminal in the process are not good standards. Then, the fact that the DP allowed this girl to be hired back two years later after what she did is even worse in the standards department. So I don't see how these new standards make it worse than what we've seen previously. Even if this new editor hires Lois completely based on her looks, which isn't going to happen, it would be better than the two ways that Chloe was hired.

Another apparent contrast to Chloe. Kahn didn't tell Chloe, "Go write this story and I'll see how well you handle it." She said, "Bring me a story."

I think that you are comparing two different things here. When Kahn told Chloe to bring her a story, that was for an opportunity for Chloe to get the job. When the editor sends Lois out on assignment, we would assume that this is after Lois is hired so the two situations are not comparable, IMO.

The setup we're reading about does in fact suggest they're handing things to EDLois, while forcing Chloe to scramble to prove herself. I'd expect the young ILL character to have obstacles thrown in her way by the writers, not just have everything given to her.

What is being given to her this time? Lois supposedly will walk into the DP with her work that she did at the end of season 6 along with pictures of Kara's ship. If that is enough to get her hired, so be it. Nothing is being handed to her in this case when she is right smack in the middle of a major news story having to do with Lex.

Yes, it's a standard underdog setup. Chloe has been toiling for two years in the basement, and apparently is going to lose out to a new reporter, who gets the plum assignments (and we know from "Noir" that being sent out on assignment means you're making your way up the DP ladder). Since audiences will tend to root for the underdog, this is yet another suggestion that Chloe is being cast as the hard-working heroine in this scenario.

Or it could be that Chloe is being cast as the hard-working friend to Clark Kent who cares more about getting him information than her place of work?

so therefore both Clark and this show's Lois must slowly begin to move toward each other, and away from other romantic entanglements. Does that mean this next season will be full of Chlark kissyface? Not at all. Movement toward Chlark is not the same as full-on Chlark.

Well that might be, but so far, TPTB have only indicated that Clark and Lois would get a little closer as we progress through season 7. Nothing about Chlark has been mentioned, which doesn't mean that it can't be mentioned later on, but Clois has been mentioned up until this point and that's all that we can go on at the moment.

And the quickness with which they seem to be dispensing with Chimmy suggests that, yes, it WAS just an obstacle after all. Because if spoilers are correct, they sure aren't wasting any time moving on from it.

The spoilers don't say that Chlimmy will be breaking up just yet. As far as the quickness in terms of getting rid of Chlimmy, they made it through over one season of being together and on this show, that is anything but a quick relationship.

Because being regularly incapacited would seriously damage her ability to have a life, and because the power makes any scene where a character is in danger automatically void.

How do we know this? We've seen Chloe use her power one time....one time, and as a result of that one time, suddenly we are supposed to be experts on what this power will do to Chloe? What if she is able to use it without causing harm to herself? The first time Clark had heat vision, he started fires so going by the logic that you just used, Clark wouldn't be able to keep that power either, however, TPTB went a little further by showing how Clark was able to use his power. All I'm saying is that the same can be done with Chloe. As for a character being in danger, who says that Chloe will always be around when someone is hurt or on the verge of dying? Who says that Chloe will be able to use her power to save a person all of the time? It might not work all of the time. So again, there is still a lot of information that needs to be given to us regarding Chloe's power to really get a handle on exactly what it's all about.

[meteor]

Originally posted by EllenF
Well put. Shouldn't ILL be hired by a well-known, established editor with years of experience? Someone like Kahn or White? We know Chloe was hired by Kahn, and we know White was impressed by her writing (while admittedly believing her stories weren't true, since he really had no context and no way of knowing what Lowell County is like). Why would the writers go out of their way to create a new and extremely young editor, and give the DP new standards, to hire EDLois? It's as if they're calling attention to the fact that she isn't as good as Chloe. If she's good enough to be ILL, she should be good enough to get hired by one of the old guard, just as Chloe did.

the standards by which Lois will be hired can't possibly be as low as the ones that hired Chloe then hired her back 2 years later after firing her for sliming her way in. those standards are roach level.

[SteveS]

" I don't know how you can say she is a totally avrage person.



...What? She gets wasted. She plays video games. She's anti-intellectual. She got her first two jobs because her friend's parents liked her. She'd rather start at the top of a tabloid than the bottom of a real newspaper. She is average - possibly even below average, but I'm being generous. There's nothing wrong with having a character like that, but it's not who the real Lois Lane is."

Exactly correct, Smallville's version of lois is only above average physically, most other personal qualities are average and her people skills are example of those that are below average. Superman does not need this version of lois for much of anything.

[batfinx]

I've had so much confidence in a Chlois ending given all the various spoilers that posting about it seemed pretty irrelevant; kinda like debating whether or not the sun will come up tomorrow or not.

I'll take that bet since technically the sun neither sets nor rises.

Given AlMiles comments on the Comic-Con panel where they pretty much admit that Smallville is an AU I'd say our "worst" case scenario given the set-up of the series and the spoilers we have at present is a "Chlois In All But Name" ending (i.e. that Chloe becomes the start reporter of the Daily Planet and ends up with Clark Kent without ever having taken the name Lois Lane).

The show won't end with the ambiguity of having a non-canon character as the star reporter. It's illogical. I'm sure Chloe will have a satisfactory end but not as the star reporter of the Daily Planet.

The fact that it is an AU means that this story of a Superman who really got his start at fifteen

He's not Superman, not even close, but I do like how you're ignoring his obsession with Lana as if she never existed.

and the often unrequited love for the Superman character (remember that through most of the Silver Age it was Lois who was pursuing Superman not the other way around).

Wrong, he always loved Lois so her feelings were most definitely requited, but he felt he belonged to the world and couldn't fairly commit to her and the big roadblock was fearing that she would be in danger from his enemies if they were to be together.

1) We don't know a bit of what EDLois will be doing in the premiere, but they're giving us a scene where Clark will be rescuing Chloe in a manner that, depending upon how precisely it is filmed, has the potential to mirror his rescue of her in "Obscura" (i.e. Chloe is trapped in a coffin and left for dead, but Clark uses his powers to find and free her) and we all know the shippy goodness that "Obscura" led to.

Since this is about romance, as I've always said, then why not be happy with a Chlark romance? This is obviously a Chlark wish list with the "shippy goodness".

this one is actually appropriate to the situation both logically (corpses in the morgue are naked)

Or a metaphor that the Chlois theory is dead. Seriously, I'm sure it can be funny because of the situation and/or heart warming because of the reunion, but for the viewers, Chloe is still in a relationship with Jimmy regardless what happens in this scene and were happy together when last we saw them. Things are going to change since Chloe seems to push Jimmy away because of mutant angst and it makes a good opportunity for Kara to step in, but as of the premiere the audience would expect her loyalties to be with Jimmy, unless she's become like Lana.

EDLois will apparently be making it into the DP in the second episode, but its important to acknowledge how she does so. They literally had to bring in an outside editor with no regard for the DP's standards and who is atttracted to EDLois in order to bring her into the paper. In other words, they had to set up a situation where all the usual standards of the paper were ignored for her to make it in the door.

This is the biggest nonsense of all. Mainly because we haven't seen any high standards at the Planet. A rich guy forced the paper to run a column for a teen girl. The paper's highest paid reporter ran the gossip column. Another rich guy ordered Jimmy fired and the icing on the cake was the paper hiring back the teen girl who had made a mockery of them a couple of years earlier.

Added to that is that the new editor is the one who will be giving EDLois a story to cover. She's not going to be finding it on her own.

Let me point out that reporters are sent out to cover events, political conventions, controversies, disasters, etc. all the time. Lois and Clark were often called into Perry's office and given an assignment. The only time they ended up with filler assignments like pigeons are parking meters is when they were in his dog house and failed to deliver on the big assignment.

Further, since this is likely to be at the start of the episode we have no idea how well she's actually going to do at this assignment either. For all we know she might flub it and have to go running to her cousin for help. Indeed, given the means they are showing her getting into the Planet (vs. how they showed us Chloe and Jimmy)

As far as we know Jimmy always went through the proper channels to get his job at the Planet. He didn't cheat his way in as Chloe had and then have to be hired back, which was ludicrous anyway. I don't know if Lois will 'flub' her assignment, heaven forbid she be human, but I saw her develop as an investigative reporter regardless of what the editor turns out to be in terms of motives or ethics.

I'd say they're setting her up to fail shortly after her sugar-daddy editor is run out on a rail (which, given how different his attitudes are from his predecessor Kahn and Perry who will eventually fill the same position, is extremely likely).

His predecessors were Kahn, who hired back a cheater, who would never be hired back in the real world and Max Taylor, who knuckled under to Lionel Luthor in hiring a high school kid. Perry White is not and hasn't been the editor of the Planet yet in this AU, as you label it.

Meanwhile Chloe's going to be interacting with Lex (and most likely Kara as well) and we know she's the one who's going to be bringing in a major scoop to the Planet in the very next episode so EDLois' role as 'teh bestest' reporter for the DP is anything but assured... whereas Chloe's bringing in a major scoop reaffirms that she's got what it takes to do the job without a lustful editor giving her a break.

I'll actually be interested in how this pans out. I have no clue on the circumstances of how/when/why Lois gets hired, though you seem to have it all mapped out, so kudos on getting the scripts ahead of time.

The fact that they're comparing EDLois vs. Lex to the "Thomas Crowne Affair" shouldn't encourage EDLois fans either. If you don't know it

The superior version with Steve McQueen is a great cat and mouse scenario of investigator versus wealthy criminal. Your problem is that you want the situation to be a literal translation of the movie rather than the essence of the chase and battle of wills between the two protagonists. We know that both Lois and Lex exist in the future, but since Gough wants to align Smallville closer to the movie franchise, then something or someone drives Lex to hide out in his underground lair.

EDLois sacrifices truth to try and seems to get ahead at first, but in the end falls flat

I don't know how things will happen. Does Lois get hired because the guy is attracted to her and she's well aware of that? Does she get hired and not know the guy hired her because of his attraction to her? Does she get hired and then the attraction develops? Was he put in place by Lex to get info from her? Can you answer any of this with certainty? No, of course not.

And then there's Kara, who, based on the spoilers is going to very well recieved by the audience because they're going to be having her do and say a number of things that a large portion of the audience has been saying for quite some time. She's not going to get along with Lana and in the second episode she's going to kick EDLois' ass, which really only leaves one female cast member for her to bond with and that's Chloe.

I don't think it's really Lana that Kara's dealing with. Though my comments are based on spoilers and speculation, not hard evidence so I could be wrong. As for Chloe, she knows the secret, it's pretty easy to bond with someone you can be yourself with.

The fact that LV in one of her interviews mentions having already worked with and likes Allison tends to support this notion

Uh, she also said that Welling and Durance have been really great to her. They're all actors and they work together regardless of how their characters are to interact on screen. Don't confuse the actors with the characters they play.

we know from some other interviews that AM and KK's real life friendship is a big part of what created the onscreen Chlana friendship

This is a good case in point. Despite those actresses having an off screen friendship, it surprisingly falls flat on screen. Their characters are so different that it was always hard for me to believe they were friends, much less best friends.

Further, you've got the 'Odd Couple' formula at work with a rebellious Kara and the sensible Chloe

Another point for Chloe not being Lois. The words "sensible" and "Lois" just don't go together.

The fact of the matter is that Chloe makes an excellent intermediary character between Kara and Clark because she knows the full deal (as opposed to EDLois)

Again, my point exactly. It's much easier to appear to be understanding to someone if you know the whole truth about them.

As mentioned, Jimmy isn't in the first two episodes so all this other stuff is going to be going on before he even comes back on the scene to remind us that there's still Chimmy going on.

If you assume the audience has amnesia.

Putting an end to the Chimmy is another pro-Chlois sign

That Chloe had a relationship with Jimmy Olsen is a huge anti-Chlois sign and creepy taboo. Even if they breakup it doesn't change that fact.

Give Chloe some time to get over her own personal Clana (which is what Chimmy was) and we're back to Chlark territory.

And that's all it's ever been is Chlark, period. If they have a romance be happy with it, but also know it won't last.

Also interesting is that Jimmy is returning just as EDLois disappears. So much for seeing any sort of iconic Lois/Jimmy investigation from that quarter

The stuff Lois and Jimmy did in Hydro was premium. Absolutely hit every iconic mark. If I can only see it once a season when it's that good, I'm fine with that.

Then we've got 'Cure' which promises to be Chloe-centric. Though I figured they'd cure Chloe eventually (the power is just too despised by too large a segment of the fan base) when I first heard about the title I was initially skeptical that they'd cure Chloe THIS early in the season.

And Chloe would want to be 'cured' of healing people because? Is it the old Clark harangue about wanting a normal life despite how much he could help people with his powers?

For a Superman show, bringing in a former actor who played Superman is a fairly big deal and the fact that they're doing it for what looks to be a Chloe-centric episode that ED is going to be absent from says a lot.

Why does it say a lot? You went out of your way to say Cain is playing a villain. I don't think I'd want a current Lois Lane with a former Superman actor if he's being a bad guy. With Chloe it doesn't matter since she's non-canon.

Those are just a few things that make me confident we're still headed for Chlois.

You choose to believe it, but the evidence actually points away from Chloe being Lois and always has. It's like seeing those "points" in favor of Chlois all over again now that we're in a new thread. My gosh, it still has the Nellie Blye baloney which has been debunked repeatedly. Where's the accountability? Clearly there is none.

[SteveS]

"The superior version with Steve McQueen is a great cat and mouse scenario of investigator versus wealthy criminal. Your problem is that you want the situation to be a literal translation of the movie rather than the essence of the chase and battle of wills between the two protagonists. We know that both Lois and Lex exist in the future, but since Gough wants to align Smallville closer to the movie franchise, then something or someone drives Lex to hide out in his underground lair."

The original version of the Thomas Crowne affair is like so many originals, much superior to the re-makes. Along those lines, if lois gets into a battle of wits with Lex, she is grossly, grossly outmatched and waaaayyyy out of her league. It would be extremely funny to watch, but I would assume that they would be giving her a brain/education implant or maybe I should say brain augmentation in order for this lois to even be able to survive stepping on the battlefield of wits with Lex.

[D.M.A.]

Originally posted by myankskent
I actually think that it says a lot to have Lois' first episode, Crusade, be one where Margot Kidder makes her only appearance on Smallville

Actually she appeared at the end of transference 2 in the limo but yea

[aqgalaxy]

^To add to Do Me Anytime's response...

Margot Kidder was brought for just Martha not Lois, that contrast to the other guest stars brought in for Chloe. They actually interact with Chloe

[D.M.A.]

Originally posted by Chiriru
Well and what fangirl or fanboy can say no to Clark vs. Clark; it's like. Wonderful.

Also add the fact that its spoiled of a Dr CK vs lex showdown as well.It shows a chloe-centric epi wit both clark/lex goin up against dean at sum point.Makin clark/chloe/lex the main 3 once again

[batfinx]

I really don't appreciate the Chlois movement being minimalized like that.

Chris brought up the shippy goodness, take it up with her/him.

The reason it exists is because Chloe both deserves more and is much more likely to achieve both parts of ILL's future role - DP's star reporter and Clark's girlfriend/wife - than her cousin is, based on all previous Smallville canon.Clark has a history of falling for women who don't appreciate or deserve him, that would be far easier for me to swallow than someone like EDLois surpassing Chloe in their careers.

That sounds like Clana sentiment. They want Smallville to be an AU as badly as you do, one in which Clark's destined love interest is Lana. And let's be real honest, if there ever seemed to be a destined love interest on the show, it's been Lana. Not to mention you don't have a "reporter Chloe" avatar, you have one of the many smooching avatars and so your denial that it's about the ship is a bit hard to believe. You even have "epic" written on the smooch picture.

EDLois has no skills, and no real interest in gathering any. She still doesn't understand why tabloid journalism is bad, and she'll continue to try to pursue it after getting unfairly hired at the DP.

So far the only one of the two who was unfairly hired at the Planet was Chloe. I'll actually have to reserve judgment on how Lois gets hired till I see the episode. And what "skills" are you talking about? Hacking?

Because being regularly incapacited would seriously damage her ability to have a life, and because the power makes any scene where a character is in danger automatically void.

She didn't cry over her best pal Lana who was bleeding in the elevator. And if Clark were injured, wouldn't her tears damage him with kryptonite in her bloodstream?

What? She gets wasted. She plays video games. She's anti-intellectual. She got her first two jobs because her friend's parents liked her. She'd rather start at the top of a tabloid than the bottom of a real newspaper. She is average - possibly even below average, but I'm being generous. There's nothing wrong with having a character like that, but it's not who the real Lois Lane is.

What? Chloe's a member of the Illuminati? Lois certainly made an analogy between Excelsior and Lord of the Flies. Though I'm somewhat at a loss when trying to conjure up deeply intellectual statements from various Lois Lanes through the ages since she wasn't know for that. In fact Lex Luthor is the most intellectually pretentious character on the show or in the Superman myth. As for video games, I'd guess a majority of the demographic of Smallville plays video games.

Well put. Shouldn't ILL be hired by a well-known, established editor with years of experience? Someone like Kahn or White?

Kahn didn't seem to have years of experience as an editor. We know when Chloe got canned Taylor, who was fairly young, was the editor. What was Kahn at the time? She was employed there because she joined in the celebration when Chloe got fired. If she'd been a junior editor we get back to someone younger being the editor first.

We know Chloe was hired by Kahn, and we know White was impressed by her writing (while admittedly believing her stories weren't true, since he really had no context and no way of knowing what Lowell County is like).

He thought she made them up.

Why would the writers go out of their way to create a new and extremely young editor, and give the DP new standards, to hire EDLois? It's as if they're calling attention to the fact that she isn't as good as Chloe. If she's good enough to be ILL, she should be good enough to get hired by one of the old guard, just as Chloe did.

You can't be serious. Chloe was hired back to a paper she had cheated her way into and the woman who hired her back had celebrated her butt being kicked out and didn't publish the article she brought in but inexplicably hired her anyway.

Another apparent contrast to Chloe. Kahn didn't tell Chloe, "Go write this story and I'll see how well you handle it." She said, "Bring me a story."

And said it was tabloid drivel and it never got published.

Margot Kidder was brought for just Martha not Lois, that contrast to the other guest stars brought in for Chloe. They actually interact with Chloe

Two actresses in the episode. One had played Lois in the movies and the other was playing Lois on Smallville and they were both in the Being Lois Lane feature. You think it escaped everyone's notice?

Also add the fact that its spoiled of a Dr CK vs lex showdown as well.It shows a chloe-centric epi wit both clark/lex goin up against dean at sum point.Makin clark/chloe/lex the main 3 once again

As for Clark/Chloe/Lex, do you mean Chloe will be in scenes with Clark and Lex? Clark, Lex and Chloe will be brawling with Dr. Knox? If Lana isn't in the episode and Lois isn't in the episode, I'd say there's a good chance that Chloe gets to be a part of the action since they're running short of females in the episode. Not to mention the obvious that Chloe is in every episode and just by that fact alone she'll generally have something to do. Oh I forgot, Sasha from Drone is in the episode too. So is it Clark/Lex/Chloe/Sasha?

[margroks]

Chloe had the experience as both a reporter and an editor, the talent, the long term interest in being a legitimate reporter and has actually been a legitimate reporter, writing for the Torch, the Ledger AND, she has had legitimate articles published IN THE DP, and front page articles at that. She also EARNED her way into the internship at the DP in which she had to beat out five hundred other candidates, I believe, after her freshman year. She was well qualified both before her column under Lionel's aegis ADN afterward when she again went up to Kahn and fought her way in with the investigation in Thirst. That is canon and not speculation. THis is the same spurious lament I hear over and over and there is no basis for saying CHloe never earned her way into the DP. I've repeatedly given the canon evidence that she did earn her way there with one exception, the Lionel deal, a brief exception from which she tried to escape.

THere is simply no comparison between that record of experience and honest accomplishment and EDLois who said she would rather be dead than be a reporter and repeatedly refused to consider reporting as a viable career choice until a bard door almost hit her and she was suddenly lightswitched into saying it was her calling, a truly laughable moment which was compounded by EDLois trying to get into the DP by having EDLois show up and expect Chloe get her a job with her pathatic and poorly written article on the barn door. It was an article for which she did no research and instead used what Chloe told her as the source (no work needed there) and only expanded upon it by willingly lying at the editor's request and with no compunctions whatsoever, reflected in her glee at her name in print and the blowing off of the fact that it was admittedly full of lies.

If anyone does not belong at the Planet because they have no experience or integrity, it's clearly EDLois and that is pretty much underscored by everything we've seen so far with characters from Lex and Chloe to Clark and the evil senator who was killed after making note of the low-quality, no-intergrity Inquistor. Even EDLois herself, who once dissed the DP by calling it a "pseudo-intellectual rag," when she couldn't cut it with her awful first article, was also seen looking in the DP for confirmation of something since even she knows the IQ can't be believed either.

But if she were really so unhappy at the IQ, she should have gone to another paper like the Ledger for training or gone back to school and learned as Chloe has, the hard way, the legitimate way. Instead, it does sound like she is going with the easy way instead of going back to school or getting training elsewhere. EDLois is obviously being set up to take the easy way again just as she always has. Because there is no way she could qualify for the DP under current, tough, old school rules as Kahn dictates and so the DP itself will have to be dumbed down so EDLois can make it in the door.

[aqgalaxy]

^ Word

[SteveS]

Margroks has done it again, thanks.

Barn-Door Lane is mistress of short-cut and the unearned. I think Clark ought to nickname her that whenever she pops off with "Smallville"; highlighting the laughable moment of lois' semi-enlightenment.

[BlueDiamond]

So, I'll change my avatar. I still think it makes much more sense for Clark to remain an idiot in his personal life than for the entire DP to lower its standards to let in someone who can't even come up with story ideas that don't consist of only her personal experiences in the text of the article. And unfortunately, in EDLois's case, being anti-intellectual also means she isn't intelligent.

Also, since you probably didn't know, Lord of the Flies is on the ninth grade reading list, so trying to hold that up as an example doesn't work.