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  • Chloe's pseudonym; Chloe = Lois, Part II

    Welcome to the Chlois (Chloe's pseudonym – Chloe = Lois) thread – Part Deux!

    History
    This thread (the original) started when the first spoilers for episode 311, Delete, were leaked that Chloe was going to try to write for the Daily Planet under the name Lois Lane. Since then, it's become the biggest thread on KSite history talking about prior and upcoming SV canon, canon from other shows/movies/comics in the Supermanverse, and sometimes you'll even see Joe Campbell, Cinderella, or other miscellaneous references pop-up.

    This thread continues to exist because the writers continue to give fodder to this theory; anyone who comes in asking for this thread to be "closed already" will have an immediate warning.

    This is a discussion thread; there will be pro-Chloisers here. There will be anti-Chloisers here. Both will be able to state their case, and both parties will be listened to.

    Reminders
    Because of the nature of these threads, the mods ask that everyone read the first and last twenty pages of the old thread. I recommend doing that as this is simply a continuation of the other thread, splintered off solely for helping those with bandwidth issues - until we get to a 1000 posts. The old thread can be found here . I recommend reading all of it if possible.

    Now that we are past that, just focus on reading the first and last 20 pages of this thread. (Although the old thread remains a good read.)

    Again because this is a debate thread, remember that fics and manips belong in the appropriate forum. Remember that flames, one-line trolling, et cetera will not be tolerated here just like they are not tolerated anywhere else on this site. Consider this a reminder to re-read the rules/TOS. If you have a problem with another poster take it to PM or contact a moderator.

    Spoilers, obviously, will be talked about in this thread.

    If you want to link something, PM me (and I'll take it to Craig) or one of the other admin FIRST.

    Extras:
    You might see mentioned other sites/things. If you want a link to Carbon Copy (the Chlois site) or want to work on it, PM me. If you would like a link to Chris' Metropolis fic series, PM me. If you have a link that should be mentioned up here, again... PM me.

    Additionally other Chlois (pro or anti) threads will probably be closed and/or merged into this one; the admin haved decided to have one thread for it so if you suddenly see an influx of other posts not quite following the discussion flow, a merging has probably occured.

    I will probably be your primary mod in this thread, although you might see others (and as always, listen to them as well.) But with all that in mind, Yay for making it to a new thread and honestly almost to the 10K mark on the last one – the oldest, longest topic on KSite EVER.

    So welcome, and uh, let the debate continue!
    Last edited by Chiriru; 06-07-2006, 11:42 AM.

  • #2
    Chiriru - it might be a good idea to copy/move the last couple of posts or so from the old post to here, just for continuity.

    Comment


    • #3
      This is disturbing...

      TVGuide.com: Obviously, Clark has his share of possible love interests. In your opinion, what does Lois offer that Lana or Chloe do not?
      Durance: We haven't actually gotten into any mudslinging or cat fights, as it were, but.... The other two girls, for the most part, so far have both had these crushes on Clark. Of course he has this "young love"/first love thing with Lana, when in comes this person who's quite sacrilegious about this whole idea of Clark and how wonderful he is; Lois cuts right through that. She just doesn't put up with any crap from anyone, whether it's from a good-looking farm boy or.... But there's this redeeming side to her, too, which Clark occasionally gets to see — when the chips are down, she will go in and risk her life for the people she loves. Regardless of the fact that she's a little irritating and kind of likes to take jabs at him, she does have that other side to her.
      What on earth?

      TVGuide.com: Will we ever see Lois start dabbling in news reporting? Fans are concerned that one day she will become some "insta-journalism whiz."
      Durance: Al and Miles [Millar] know this folklore very well, and they, of course, want to be sensitive to the people out there who love it as well, so I think that they're trying to find a nice, subtle way of bringing that in. They don't let me know what's going on really, but I do know that there occasionally are hints of Lois helping Chloe out with that sort of thing. That said, I don't think Lois can really get into it for a little while. She's still trying to find out who she is and learning to accept who she is, and until she finds that personal grounding, she can't go out and be that balls-to-the-wall kind of gal.
      Please someone, ANYONE, tell me this is a joke. Why do I suddenly picture a gigantic lightswitch?

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't want to read 640 pages of the last thread.

        Could someone sum up the points made by both sides?

        Comment


        • #5
          Reminders
          Because of the nature of these threads, the mods ask that everyone read the first and last twenty pages of the old thread. I recommend doing that as this is simply a continuation of the other thread, splintered off solely for helping those with bandwidth issues. The old thread can be found here . I recommend reading all of it if possible.
          Posted above.

          Comment


          • #6
            My friend was interested in the theory and i wrote all this out for her in an IM so forgive if it's more a train of thought

            ----
            Chlois by a Chloiser
            ----

            Chloe Sullivan was the name Lois lane was born with. The name Lois is a pen name that she now goes by on the regular

            We’ve been getting clues all the years Smallville’s been on
            Bits and pieces to a big puzzle

            Every year since Clark and Chloe have known each other they've shared a single kiss

            Only one episode every season

            Season one showed how they could have been if Lana wasn't a factor

            Season two showed Chloe’s descent but in 'fever' she read a letter to him that was personally handled by al/miles

            Season three we learn she never gave Lionel anything on Clark and had been protecting him in metropolis. She breaks away from her crush and starts to pull out on her own.

            In 'delete' she -became- Lois lane by offering it up as a pen name attached to an article that was going to be published if max didn't die

            In fact, George Max Taylor was the editor of the Daily Star (the first newspaper Lois and Clark wrote for in the original serials)

            In this version he was and could only be Chloe’s editor

            Lois' idol has always been Perry white
            We learn in 'Perry' that Chloe's idol has always been Perry

            In ALL versions of the comics when Lois is matched up against Clark's ex girlfriends, i.e., Lori and Lana, she is always the dowdy unkempt homely one while the other girls are vixens

            Lois is -never- allowed a romantic interest outside of Clark/Superman

            Chloe has yet to get a boyfriend or even -guy friend- after Pete went 'bye bye'

            In some versions Lois and Lana were roommates in college, in some versions Lois and Lori were roommates in college

            Lois Lane had a serial come out in the past written when she was an intern at the daily planet at the age of 15 titles "How I Spent My Summer Vacation"

            Chloe Sullivan, in the Smallville comics between season 1 and 2 was interning at the daily planet and in the comic had a serial entitled "How I Spent My Summer Vacation"

            Lois has been the youngest reporter at the daily planet
            Chloe was the youngest reporter at the daily planet

            even her 'betrayal' in s2 was a direct rip from the silver age comics where Lois wanted to prove once and for all that Clark and Superman were the same person so she could blackmail him into marrying her

            The first human to the Fortress of Solitude has always been Lois Lane

            The first human to the Fortress of Solitude was Chloe

            Lois ---activates--- Clark's super hearing. He would not even know she is calling him, she may only be whispering and she automatically triggers it

            Chloe is the only one on the show who triggers Clark's super hearing, all the other times he has to focus to use it

            The first time, in 'whisper', it's Chloe who activates it, her conversation with Lionel on her cell phone

            In blank when he didn't know how to even use his hearing she just had to whisper in Lex’s hallway to warn him

            In thirst when Lana was biting her he had no idea she was in danger and simply heard her groans

            Lois was and had always been the senior partner of their group, she was the most advanced reporter at the daily planet, and she had two Pulitzer nominations by 28

            I'm not sure EDLois, the "muffin peddler" can hack that--
            She’s already 20
            No college
            No high school diploma
            No GED
            No interest in journalism
            Every interest in every other hot bod -but- Clark

            It’s just a little weird

            Also her rationalizations will be completely off
            In the comics Lois does what she does to prove her father wrong. Sam had always wanted boys and though girls were for the kitchen

            In SV he desperately wants her in college and does the tough love so that she'd stop being a slacker

            It’s just lacking

            Also, Nellie Bly was the first female investigative reporter
            Siegel and Shuster more than likely used her as a template for Lois lane

            Nellie was an early feminist and strove to be the best and was -the- best winning out over her male colleagues

            Not only is she Chloe's childhood idol *as stated in 'gone'* Nellie's first big story was going undercover in an insane asylum to see how the patients were being treated. Her article brought about sweeping reform

            Reminds us of 514? no?
            Last edited by Kal'sGirl; 12-08-2005, 11:04 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Black cat - actually I'm feelling pretty good about that. Erica doesn't say anything other than what she said the the podcast; she specifically skirts talking about Chloe in the romance question, she skirts the dead!Chloe question; she skirts even the journalism question.

              We know from the podcast that Erica finds the nonjouralism Lois easier to do - so the extent of her involvement is merely TO HELP Chloe.

              Additionally the biggest give away is Erica addmitting that she doesn't get to know what's going on. I say this especially on the heals of the S3 compainion book -- where AM admits that she knew the entire arc for Chloe at the beginning of the year, all the reasons why, all the twists and turns, ALL of it.

              FlashFan - I would love to but *I* can't. Anything ya'll want to quote from over there is perfectly fine and if the people who posted on the last page want to copy and re-post their entries here they are more than welcome.

              Kal'sGirl - that's a pretty good sum up. As I'm so wordy, I'm thinking of shoutouts missed, but yeah that's pretty much got the thrust of the idea without chatting the persons' ear off completely or bringing up the inane like I would tend to do.

              Speaking of inane, bringing this revelation I had last night over:

              H.G. Wells: What's the matter, my dear?
              Lois: Oh, you've been to the future, Mr. Wells. Is it true what Tempus said about me?
              H.G. Wells: Oh, yes. You're as highly-revered as any woman in history.
              Lois: Oh, no, I'm meant about being galactically stupid.
              H.G. Wells: No, no, no, Miss Lane, not stupid, blind. It is one of the many things that makes your story so timeless. Why children never tire of hearing it at bedtime. Why parents never outgrow it. Generation after generation, we are all blinded by love, Miss Lane. Especially that one great love that changes us forever.
              -- Tempus Fugit, S2, LnC

              Reminds me of:

              Chloe: What is it with me? I can spot Wall of Weird material from a mile away, but put it right in front of me and I'm oblivious.

              Clark: You're not oblivious, you're trusting. You're strong enough to take risks with your emotions. I wish I were as brave as you.
              -- Crush, S1, SV

              and

              Chloe: I'm surprised I hadn't noticed earlier. So much for my crack journalistic instinct.

              Lionel: No, no, love has a way of blinding even the sharpest minds. We don't look because we don't want to see. But once love has been stripped away, then we see the real person clearly. They're revealed to us with all their flaws, their foibles, and their secrets.
              -- Exodus, S2, SV

              Not a perfect line rip like Arrival, but the similarites are there in the theme. LnC also has a line asking "Was it worth it? The wait, I mean." in Early S4. Just some more food for thought.
              Last edited by Chiriru; 12-08-2005, 10:45 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Chiriru
                Thanks. I am beginning to feel better about it now. Check out the speculation about it at TWoP.

                On the plus side... maybe we will get some juicy Chlois anvils tonight!

                Glad you brought those over! I'm feeling soo much better now!

                Kal's Girl
                You have renewed my hope in Chlois! Thanks.
                Last edited by Black cat; 12-08-2005, 10:51 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Excellent post Kal'sGirl. You've renewed my hope as well.

                  I'd love Chlois anvils tonight, too, but for some reason, I really don't expect to see any - at least not big ones.

                  Am I the only one a little sad that our big, long thread is gone? I know this is a continuation, but there was just something about those big page numbers and post counts . . .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I already see a Chlois anvil in tonights episode. Chloe and Clark are giving up their Christmas to deliever presents to children, working as partners and they are showing us that Chloe is as good as Clark. Something they've been doing for a while now.

                    I'm also hoping, along with other Chlois fans I talk to, that we may see some similarities between "Lexmas" and LnC's "Season's Greedings"
                    Last edited by MsSullivan; 12-08-2005, 11:34 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Liriel - you're not alone. I was hoping to hit 10K before a new one but no such dice.

                      I actually think we're getting several HUGE Chlois anvils tonight. For one, Lois isn't on, which happened in Scare which was a string of prophetic dreams.

                      We know Lex's dream is an actual splintered off reality; we know this COULD really happen. This isn't a subconscious, this isn't anything but Lex making a choice and seeing what that choice could lead to in a different reality than what we are in now.

                      It's telling that Clark is with Chloe. Clarks' destiny doesn't change if Lex's does - there are other villians that he fights, other things that he does. One of the most constant things in the comics is that Lois and Clark are DESTINED to be together, it doesn't matter who is good or evil, they have to be together. In fact, I'm reminded of the TAS arc when Lois jumps into another reality where she died (at a point where her Superman saved her) and she saw Superman and Luthor ruling over the earth; he STILL ended up on herside and with her by the end.

                      I'm also reminded of the Kismet arc in the comics where Clark and Lois have to rejoin many splintereed version of their reality (both past, present, on krypton, just crazy amount of reboots) through the power of their two souls continually finding one another in each realm.

                      What we have here is both in this alternate reality and in SV's TRUE reality, is Chloe and Clark sharing Christmas (Chloe in REALLY big bracelets in both) together.

                      If destiny is this big unescapable, unavoidable thing - well that seems like a huge anvil.

                      MsSullivan - exactly! I think a few of us brought that up in the last hread, there was even Santa (real!) in Season's Greedings.
                      Last edited by Chiriru; 12-08-2005, 11:26 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If destiny is this big unescapable, unavoidable thing - well that seems like a huge anvil.
                        I'm actually thinking that might kinda go that route. Actually, I was wondering if even in Lex's "perfect" future, Lex might not be all that pristine? But then I thought Lilian probably wouldn't show it to him if that was the case.

                        If that's the way it works, then anvils away. But if it's not . . . I'm still worried about Clark & Lana in Lex's dream/vision. I really hope TPTB don't take this route - it's not good for any of the characters - but they are so caught up on Lana . . .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Unclear what you mean about being worried about Clark and Lana but I'm a bit out of the loop lately.

                          It's obvious that Chloe fills the real Lois Lane's shoes quite admirably and they continue to give Chloe the traditional Lois attributes while giving this girl whose name is Lois, virtually none.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            she specifically skirts talking about Chloe in the romance question”
                            “The other two girls, for the most part, so far have both had these crushes on Clark.”

                            How is that specifically skirting that issue? Chloe’s crush is all there has been in the romance department between Clark and Chloe, especially since Lois has been on the show. There’s nothing more to talk about. She talks more about Lana because that is who has had the romance with Clark.

                            . Of course he has this "young love"/first love thing with Lana, when in comes this person who's quite sacrilegious about this whole idea of Clark and how wonderful he is; Lois cuts right through that. She just doesn't put up with any crap from anyone, whether it's from a good-looking farm boy or.... But there's this redeeming side to her, too, which Clark occasionally gets to see — when the chips are down, she will go in and risk her life for the people she loves. Regardless of the fact that she's a little irritating and kind of likes to take jabs at him, she does have that other side to her.
                            Sounds very much like ED’s Lois Lane to me and also very much like the iconic Lois Lane.

                            she skirts the dead!Chloe question;
                            Well, yeah. As would Tom or Michael or Allison herself. Like Erica said, Lois would be shipped off to Europe if she spilled those beans. I’m sure all the cast have been told specifically not to tell who gets killed and I’m sure they all have been or will be asked that question in interviews and I assure you every last one of them would skirt it--big time.

                            We know from the podcast that Erica finds the nonjouralism Lois easier to do - so the extent of her involvement is merely TO HELP Chloe.
                            I’m not sure I remember in what context she made that statement and I listened to it at least 5 times. Would you care to quote her specifically?

                            And I agree that she does help Chloe, like in Solitude, when Chloe found getting around the security to be a problem but Lois didn’t bat an eye and offered her help so Chloe could get the story.

                            Additionally the biggest give away is Erica addmitting that she doesn't get to know what's going on. I say this especially on the heals of the S3 compainion book -- where AM admits that she knew the entire arc for Chloe at the beginning of the year, all the reasons why, all the twists and turns, ALL of it.
                            It seems to me from everything I’ve read about Allison that she wants to know everything that is going on with her character. Maybe Erica is more inclined to take it as it comes along, much like Tom did in the early days. That could just be a difference in characteristic between Erica and Allison. After all, she doesn’t say that they won’t tell her just that they don’t. Maybe she doesn’t feel like she’s been there long enough to ask but Allison doesn‘t have that problem. Difference in personality that has nothing to do with Lois really being Lois.

                            Al and Miles Millar know this folklore very well, and they, of course, want to be sensitive to the people out there who love it as well, so I think that they're trying to find a nice, subtle way of bringing that in.
                            I love the use of the word “folklore”. I think it very appropriate in that situation. Sounds like she knows what she is talking about since AlMiles do seem to be bringing it in a more subtle way and I like that. It isn’t one of those written in stone things to me that Lois has to bleed journalism from the time she can hold a pencil. As long as we see that is where she is heading I am okay with that. Solitude hit me over the head with that anvil, even Chloe got in on the act and prodded her cousin on to the great reporter she will some day be, so I am okay with that too.

                            And like Erica said, they are bringing it in whether you want to see it or not doesn’t make those anvils any less valid.

                            I like her point “I don't think Lois can really get into it for a little while. She's still trying to find out who she is and learning to accept who she is, and until she finds that personal grounding, she can't go out and be that balls-to-the-wall kind of gal.”

                            That sums up Smallville’s and Erica's Lois for me. She isn’t the “the” Lois Lane yet, but she will be. Just as Clark and Lex had their own journeys to be the characters we know and love, so will Lois.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by margroks
                              Unclear what you mean about being worried about Clark and Lana but I'm a bit out of the loop lately.

                              It's obvious that Chloe fills the real Lois Lane's shoes quite admirably and they continue to give Chloe the traditional Lois attributes while giving this girl whose name is Lois, virtually none.
                              I'm just worried Clark will still have a thing for Lana in the dream.

                              Comment

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