Oliver shot Clark two times....

[Yasise]

and our beloved BDA stood there and didn't even try to hide???

O.k., call me narrow-minded and mean, but come on, the first time Oli shot him, you can say, Clark didn't expect Oli to really shoot him.

But the second time???

I mean Oli did warn him, that the next shot will go straight to his heart, or something like that, and Clark already must have understood, that Oli wasn't joking.....so why for heaven's sake didn't Clark jump out of the way, after he got shot for the first time?

A bow isn't like a gun, one can clearly see, when somebody is aiming with a bow at you, so please, even if Clark is "only" a human in that scene, couldn't he see, that Oli is going to shoot him again???

Don't get me wrong, I think, this episode wasn't so bad at all, even if I think, it was too short for all that stuff they packed into it (it would have been better, IMO, if they would have made a two part episode out of it, but well...).

But this "shooting scene" is so not believable IMO!

Everyone would have tried to hide himself, but our Clark just stood there and let Oli shoot him two times!!

Sorry, all I could do, when I saw that, was shaking my head and thinking "This can't be true!"

[Ilovebeinglost]

I think Clark was in shock that Oliver would shoot him and if you have a whole in your chest I would imagine it would hurt like hell which is something that Clark can't relate to nor did he know what to do with no powers.

And besides how could MM make a grand appearance if Clark wasn't seriously injured?

I think people watch too many police shows and think everything has to make sense when we're talking about mythical characters nad situations here.

[Yasise]

I think Clark was in shock that Oliver would shoot him and if you have a whole in your chest I would imagine it would hurt like hell which is something that Clark can't relate to nor did he know what to do with no powers.

And besides how could MM make a grand appearance if Clark wasn't seriously injured?

I think people watch too many police shows and think everything has to make sense when we're talking about a mythical characters here.

I think you're explanations are cute but I'm afraid they don't really convince me, sorry.

[AndiGirl]

Yea, I think Clark was just in shock...plus, where was he going to run to that the green arrow couldnt hit him? He could run up the stairs....which Ollie would gain on him pretty quick, or just shoot him while he runs. (remember this is the guy who shot an arrow into the little top part of a soda can.) Or he could charge ollie...but with one arm out of commission and no powers....once again, pointless. So clark just tried to reason with him...tell him he isnt himself. I'm not sure I would have done it any differently...there wasnt a whole heck of a lot clark could have done.

[individuall]

Yea, I think Clark was just in shock...plus, where was he going to run to that the green arrow couldnt hit him? He could run up the stairs....which Ollie would gain on him pretty quick, or just shoot him while he runs. (remember this is the guy who shot an arrow into the little top part of a soda can.) Or he could charge ollie...but with one arm out of commission and no powers....once again, pointless. So clark just tried to reason with him...tell him he isnt himself. I'm not sure I would have done it any differently...there wasnt a whole heck of a lot clark could have done.

IA. Besides Chloe and Lois were at the top of the stairs..I'm sure Clark didn't want to point that out to Ollie in his..Less than normal state...And like Andi said he was kinda between a rock and a hard place..

[AndiGirl]

IA. Besides Chloe and Lois were at the top of the stairs..I'm sure Clark didn't want to point that out to Ollie in his..Less than normal state...And like Andi said he was kinda between a rock and a hard place..

Oh yea...I forgot Chloe and Lois were upstairs! Good thinking! :)
I'm sure he wouldnt run Ollie right to the girls.....

[Yasise]

Oh yea...I forgot Chloe and Lois were upstairs! Good thinking! :)
I'm sure he wouldnt run Ollie right to the girls.....

So Clark was in a shock, therefore he couldn't hide himself behind that walls on both sides of him, but he could think about the girls above and about not leading "out-of-control-Ollie" to the girls.....yesss, that's totally logically thinking for someone, who is supposed to be in a shock.

No, sorry, not convincing either IMO.

Shock or no shock, it's only like a reflex that you hide yourself from someone, who wants to shoot you, especially, if that someone just did shoot you and told you, that he is going to shoot you again.....

[AndiGirl]

So Clark was in a shock, therefore he couldn't hide himself behind that walls on both sides of him, but he could think about the girls above and about not leading "out-of-control-Ollie" to the girls.....yesss, that's totally logically thinking for someone, who is supposed to be in a shock.

No, sorry, not convincing either IMO.

Shock or no shock, it's only like a reflex that you hide yourself from someone, who wants to shoot you, especially, if that someone just did shoot you and told you, that he is going to shoot you again.....

Alright, then forget what I said about shock.....he wasnt in shock and thinking clearly.:lol: I guess we will have to agree to disagree....cause I'm not convinced there was anything he could have really done except try to reason with Ollie. :)

[Yasise]

Alright, then forget what I said about shock.....he wasnt in shock and thinking clearly.:lol: I guess we will have to agree to disagree....cause I'm not convinced there was anything he could have really done except try to reason with Ollie. :)

Maybe he could have tried to reason with Ollie from behind of one of those walls??:D

Maybe we can say, that Clark is so much used to have his powers, that he forgot for a second that the next arrow would possibly hurt him, too????

Yeah well, maybe I am narrow-minded.....

[AndiGirl]

Maybe he could have tried to reason with Ollie from behind of one of those walls??:D

Maybe we can say, that Clark is so much used to have his powers, that he forgot for a second that the next arrow would possibly hurt him, too????

Yeah well, maybe I am narrow-minded.....

Thats true! :rotfl:
Maybe negotiate behind a wall...

I think your second to last statement seems very true. He put his hand up like he was going to catch the arrow or something....so maybe he did really just have a total brain fart, and either 1) didnt think Ollie would do it 2) didnt think he would get hurt....because he forgot about his powers.

[Twitch]

Clark had no powers and was already injured from the first arrow, I highly doubt running or trying to hide would have helped him much. Ollie is extremely accurate with his arrows, he would have just followed him and shot him again in the heart. Besides, since when has Clark been the type to hide or run away? He's always stood his ground in these kind of situations, with or without his powers. Plus, it's possible he thought that Ollie was bluffing when he said he'd actually shoot him through the heart the next time and actually kill him.

[AndiGirl]

Clark had no powers and was already injured from the first arrow, I highly doubt running or trying to hide would have helped him much. Ollie is extremely accurate with his arrows, he would have just followed him and shot him again in the heart. Besides, since when has Clark been the type to hide or run away? He's always stood his ground in these kind of situations, with or without his powers. Plus, it's possible he thought that Ollie was bluffing when he said he'd actually shoot him through the heart the next time and actually kill him.

well said. :)

[6-Super-Man -5]

Clark must be a strong guy, if I was shot one time I would fall in agony.

[AndiGirl]

Clark must be a strong guy, if I was shot one time I would fall in agony.

Yea, not only was he shot...but he had to pull the freaking arrow out of his shoulder! :eek:

I would have been crying on the floor telling Ollie to just kill me, I'm not going anywhere!

[Estro-gen X]

well I would have kept ollie talking and led him on a wild goose chase to lex

[Yasise]

Clark had no powers and was already injured from the first arrow, I highly doubt running or trying to hide would have helped him much. Ollie is extremely accurate with his arrows, he would have just followed him and shot him again in the heart. Besides, since when has Clark been the type to hide or run away? He's always stood his ground in these kind of situations, with or without his powers. Plus, it's possible he thought that Ollie was bluffing when he said he'd actually shoot him through the heart the next time and actually kill him.

well said. :)

O.k., o.k. Andi and Scott....I give up, because I'm in shock now! How could I expect Clark to react like a "normal" human being. Of course he would never hide and save his life, he'd rather die there, because he's still thinking that Ollie was bluffing after he did really shot him.

IMO that's a little bit wishful thinking on Clark's behalf, especially after he did understand that Ollie isn't himself....but o.k. if you say so, maybe I'm wrong....

Clark must be a strong guy, if I was shot one time I would fall in agony.

:rotfl:

Yea, not only was he shot...but he had to pull the freaking arrow out of his shoulder! :eek: !

That's what a shock can do for you - you get non-human powers *lol*

I would have been crying on the floor telling Ollie to just kill me, I'm not going anywhere!

:rotfl:

[AndiGirl]

O.k., o.k. Andi and Scott....I give up, because I'm in shock now! How could I expect Clark to react like a "normal" human being. Of course he would never hide and save his life, he'd rather die there, because he's still thinking that Ollie was bluffing after he did really shot him.

IMO that's a little bit wishful thinking on Clark's behalf, especially after he did understand that Ollie isn't himself....but o.k. if you say so, maybe I'm wrong....



:rotfl:



That's what a shock can do for you - you get non-human powers *lol*



:rotfl:

You dont have to give in...I like debating...which I'm sure you can tell. I annoy many board members with this habbit of mine. :rotfl:

[Yasise]

Thats true! :rotfl:
Maybe negotiate behind a wall...

Not behind A WALL, of course :rotfl:

I was speaking about those little walls beside the stairs, dear Andi ;)

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

You dont have to give in...I like debating...which I'm sure you can tell. I annoy many board members with this habbit of mine. :rotfl:

You're not annoying me, Andi, actually I'm having fun either, debating this "wall theory" of mine ;)

[AndiGirl]

Not behind A WALL, of course :rotfl:

I was speaking about those little walls beside the stairs, dear Andi ;)

:rotfl:. You crack me up! I know we are supposed to be debating, but you're too fun!

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

Oh yes...I new you meant those side walls. No worry. I still think Ollie would have lept that sucker in a second flat.......but its the effort that counts. ;)

[Yasise]

:rotfl:. You crack me up! I know we are supposed to be debating, but you're too fun!

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

Oh yes...I new you meant those side walls. No worry. I still think Ollie would have lept that sucker in a second flat.......but its the effort that counts. ;)

No, no, Ollie doesn't have superspeed and maybe the effect of that drug would have been gone till he reached Clark, who, in my obviously not so logical theory, would have been kneeling behind one of those little side walls in order to hide himself and hoping that Ollie wouldn't shoot him again....
o.k. maybe that wouldn't be hero like at all.

So they let him stand there in front of maniac Ollie so that he would not miss his target.....:\

[clarkbunny]

I also thought that Clark should really have dodged the second arrow but I enjoyed the episode as a whole and I am willing to just overlook that. It was obviously a plot device o that Martian Manhunter could come and save him - and not like I thought at the time a chance for Chloe to save him.

[HotStudsSuccess]

It would be funny, if Clark would end up saying "Hey, is that the best you can do Green Pea" when Oliver first shot Clark with the arrow.

[SnowBird]

What a strange conversation. I belong to a family of deer hunters using bow and arrows. From what I know about getting shot with an arrow, Clark was doing good just to stand there much less think about moving after the first shot. In the shock of pain, he pulled the arrow out, he was probably wondering why his friend shot him, and what the heck was wrong with Oliver. He was also trying to process why Ollie was asking about Lex. If it had been a stranger shooting him, Clark might have instinctively wanted to find cover if he could have . I would say we need someone the same weight and height who has actually been shot with an arrow in the same place to give us an expert opinion. Without that, the theory of Clark should have, could have, would have gone for cover is only speculation.

[getkuhl]

i agree with snowbird completely.
the possibilities of what clark could have done are endless. most things that he could have done would have been pointless. and no one can say what they would or could have done because being in a state of shock tends to jog all logic. many people suffer from the deer in the headlight syndrome, much like clark did.
and imagine being a superhuman one day, and normal the next.
i would have felt extremely powerless and clueless in that moment...

[stenochick]

Okay. I hope we all know that in real life, if you are ever impaled by something, DO NOT PULL IT OUT! It needs to stay right where it is until the paramedics come or you could die of blood loss.

I think Clark was in shock and is not used to having to run for cover so the thought did not occur to him in time.

When under stress, people have one of three instinctual responses: fight, flight, or freeze. I think Clark's instinct was to fight, not flee or freeze like a deer in the headlights. But his only way to fight was to reason with Ollie because he had no way to fight back. I did not percieve him as freezing because he kept reasoning and talking with Ollie, not just standing there frozen.

[AndiGirl]

Okay. I hope we all know that in real life, if you are ever impaled by something, DO NOT PULL IT OUT! It needs to stay right where it is until the paramedics come or you could die of blood loss.

I think Clark was in shock and is not used to having to run for cover so the thought did not occur to him in time.

When under stress, people have one of three instinctual responses: fight, flight, or freeze. I think Clark's instinct was to fight, not flee or freeze like a deer in the headlights. But his only way to fight was to reason with Ollie because he had no way to fight back. I did not percieve him as freezing because he kept reasoning and talking with Ollie, not just standing there frozen.

:rotfl: I love that you said that...because I thought the same thing. When someone stabs you....or....shoots you with an arrow, dont ever pull it out! It's acting as a plug to prevent blood loss.

I'm glad I wasnt the only one who thought that when clark pulled it out.

[ClareKent]

This was on the scenes that I enjoyed the most, beyond the point of why Clark didn't try to run after the first arrow...I mean, he was in obviusly shock, but I love it, specially when the second arrow went right through him, I thought "Wow...that must hurt" :lol:

[AndiGirl]

I kind of thought something like that would kill you instantly....hmm, the things you learn?

[Meteror Freak]

what was clark supposed to do? Dodge Ollie's arrows until he ran out? Dive out the window? Just because Ollie wasn't holding a gun doesn't mean clark was able to just run away.

[chlarker4eva08]

ck was in shock.....n even if he did try to run ollie would've caught him anyway since he has perfect aim imo

[TOMophilus]

I have to agree with Yasise. The scene made no sense at all. But I do understand that otherwise Clark could not have been hurt fatally... :\

As for the reasoning aspect: you cannot reason with someone who is not himself... :\

It comes much worse though: the whole "shooting through the heart" thing is not very credible either. If the writers had any minimal knowledge of human anatomy, they should know that you cannot shoot an arrow through the middle of your body so that it continues flying out of the window behind you.

First, you have a sternal bone in the front. Let´s grant you can pierce that, even though this is already quite some effort. Then the arrow has to pass the heart and lung, and finally the spinal column in the back. No way that an arrow would pass through two bone barriers and fly out with the same speed in the back. Moreover, if the arrow went through Clarks spinal column he would have been paralyzed immediately, at most being able to move his arms but nothing below that point. Also, if you have a hole throughout your entire heart, you will pass out way earlier than Clark did because you suffer from massive inner bleeding.

Which is to say: Nothing, really nothing makes sense in Smallville. But Tom is just too sexy not to watch it. :lol:

[Yasise]

I have to agree with Yasise. The scene made no sense at all. But I do understand that otherwise Clark could not have been hurt fatally... :\

As for the reasoning aspect: you cannot reason with someone who is not himself... :\

It comes much worse though: the whole "shooting through the heart" thing is not very credible either. If the writers had any minimal knowledge of human anatomy, they should know that you cannot shoot an arrow through the middle of your body so that it continues flying out of the window behind you.

First, you have a sternal bone in the front. Let´s grant you can pierce that, even though this is already quite some effort. Then the arrow has to pass the heart and lung, and finally the spinal column in the back. No way that an arrow would pass through two bone barriers and fly out with the same speed in the back. Moreover, if the arrow went through Clarks spinal column he would have been paralyzed immediately, at most being able to move his arms but nothing below that point. Also, if you have a hole throughout your entire heart, you will pass out way earlier than Clark did because you suffer from massive inner bleeding.

Which is to say: Nothing, really nothing makes sense in Smallville. But Tom is just too sexy not to watch it. :lol:

Yes exactly!!!! I agree with everything you've said - this scene was just so not logical....

and yessss, Tom's too sexy, actually unbelievably sexy :o His "russian camp look" - oh my God!

[ColdPlay3r]

writers thinkin, hey hoe do we injure clark?
answer = shot him untill he is dead

first shot didnt work, lets do it again

clark had 2 get injured so dat MM will come in, fly to the sun

important cause clark got powers back
MM lost powers, probably has significance in comin episodes

[Yasise]

...............clark had 2 get injured so dat MM will come in, fly to the sun...............

yeah o.k. I got that, but why can't they find a more logical and believable way?

[Dor el]

I think you're explanations are cute but I'm afraid they don't really convince me, sorry.

How about this? Ollie's arrow pierced the upper lobe of Clark's left lung creating a pneumothorax which prevented Clark from taking a deep breath because as he tried to breathe deeply to satisfy the increased oxygen demand brought by the alerted fight or flight response of the sympathetic nervous system, the negative pressure within the thoracic cavity caused more air to enter the intrapleural space causing his left lung to collapse. A collapsed lung would, at the very least, be very distracting and it would quickly incapacitate one's physical mobility and negatively impact one's cognitive skills. Thus, Clark stood there or rather he staggered there, unable to move or to engage in proactive decision making which might have led him to the conclusion that he should try to get away from a possible second arrow attack from Ollie, his friend, his co-conspirator, his ally, and the man who had just rescued him from the Russian work camp.

A more simple explanation: Clark was stunned. :)

----- Added 26 Minutes later -----

First, you have a sternal bone in the front. Let´s grant you can pierce that, even though this is already quite some effort. Then the arrow has to pass the heart and lung, and finally the spinal column in the back. No way that an arrow would pass through two bone barriers and fly out with the same speed in the back. Moreover, if the arrow went through Clarks spinal column he would have been paralyzed immediately, at most being able to move his arms but nothing below that point. Also, if you have a hole throughout your entire heart, you will pass out way earlier than Clark did because you suffer from massive inner bleeding.

Which is to say: Nothing, really nothing makes sense in Smallville. But Tom is just too sexy not to watch it. :lol:

Actually, a portion of the heart lies somewhat behind and to the left of the sternal bone within the chest cavity. The spine does not provide a solid surface impenetrable cage around the heart. Nor does the rib cage. So, however unlikely that Ollie is that precise of a shooter, it is conceivable that the arrow if fast enough, straight enough, and with enough force, could pass through the thorax hitting only soft tissue as it traveled. It could possibly have traveled through Clark's chest just to the left of the sternum and just to the left of the spine leaving Clark with a hole in his heart while not producing paralysis. During catastrophic blood loss, as experienced by Clark, a loss of consciousness ensues very quickly though it doesn't necessarily have to be immediate. While it seemed like a long time to us viewers, perhaps it was only seconds (with maybe a little tv dramatization). Just a thought.

[TOMophilus]

Actually, a portion of the heart lies somewhat behind and to the left of the sternal bone within the chest cavity. The spine does not provide a solid surface impenetrable cage around the heart. Nor does the rib cage. So, however unlikely that Ollie is that precise of a shooter, it is conceivable that the arrow if fast enough, straight enough, and with enough force, could pass through the thorax hitting only soft tissue as it traveled. It could possibly have traveled through Clark's chest just to the left of the sternum and just to the left of the spine leaving Clark with a hole in his heart while not producing paralysis....
Yes, sure. But I watched the scene several times, and the hole was pretty much in the middle. Moreover, the arrow was not just a pencil-like stick, but it had 4 blades or wings (or whatever you call these) at both ends, which make it unlikely that it goes straight through without being decelerated by any rib or other bone contact.

[Dor el]

I understand. I was specifically speaking to your comment regarding paralysis. But to me it looked like the arrow was at a slight angle to the front plane of Clark's chest. I will pay special attention next time I view this scene. This would steer the arrow slightly more away from his sternum and his spine. The hole in his back could have been better placed, but I can certainly forgive the TPTB for this. He is a big guy. Probably would have more space between his ribs than would a smaller person. Yes, the arrow had wings things (I think the camera close up may have made the arrow look disproportionately larger), which would make me think that the hole in his heart was likely to be larger. Still I believe that TPTB made the shot believable enough for me not to consider this to be a plot hole. Certainly no more difficult to accept this than to accept that Regan was able to inject Ollie with a 2 minute mind control concoction.

[TheLeague]

Superman would not cower before an arrow so clark wouldnt be any different taking cover and hiding is for humans, people like clark stand tall and heroic and try to reason with the assailant! mod edit

clark is no BDA anymore thats old!

[Dor el]

clark is no BDA anymore thats old!

Yes, as was evident in his plea to Chloe not to heal him as well as in his attempt to escape his armed captors.

[TOMophilus]

Superman would not cower before an arrow so clark wouldnt be any different taking cover and hiding is for humans, people like clark stand tall and heroic and try to reason with the assailant!
Standing there without powers and trying to argue with someone who is on drugs is not heroic but idiotic!

fool learn your comic book heroes from your neighbors!
If the "fool" refers to me, I should make sure to report you for insult...

[Dor el]

Standing there without powers and trying to argue with someone who is on drugs is not heroic but idiotic!

And Clark is not an idiot. He doesn't purposefully try and get hurt or killed, but he doesn't back down from a fight either. Best to fight using one's brain and resources. SM usually finds a way to win and win with dignity and with minimal collateral damage. Not that Clark is SM...yet.

[TOMophilus]

He doesn't purposefully try and get hurt or killed, but he doesn't back down from a fight either. Best to fight using one's brain and resources.
But backing down from a fight can be the best option for a hero. To me a hero is someone who fights for a greater good, not for the purpose of fighting a useless fight. In this scene, however, there was no greater good in sight. GA was only after him, nobody else was involved. So if someone´s goal is to help and protect other people, he has a duty to protect himself from unnecessary injury and stay alive as long as he can.

[Dor el]

But backing down from a fight can be the best option for a hero. To me a hero is someone who fights for a greater good, not for the purpose of fighting a useless fight. In this scene, however, there was no greater good in sight. GA was only after him, nobody else was involved. So if someone´s goal is to help and protect other people, he has a duty to protect himself from unnecessary injury and stay alive as long as he can.


Guess I disguised my comment too well. I was actually agreeing with you that fighting a useless battle is not smart.