It has to be said

[Mischael12]

When will Clark learn to finally listen to Jor-el? I mean really...Is it really possible to ignore a person who has been right so many times?

He was right about Zod, about the training, now about Zor-el...yet Clark doesn't seem to be able to grasp that? Seriously man how stupid do you have to be?

[biggkoz]

Big................Dumb......................Alien

[SmallvilleMan]

When is Jor-el going to learn how to talk to Clark? Doesn't he understand the my way or the highway tactics don't work?

[adromidon]

I wonder what the concequence that Jor-El was talking about is

[shadow4486]

Originally posted by Mischael12
When will Clark learn to finally listen to Jor-el? I mean really...Is it really possible to ignore a person who has been right so many times?

He was right about Zod, about the training, now about Zor-el...yet Clark doesn't seem to be able to grasp that? Seriously man how stupid do you have to be?

So true...so true

[prometheus04]

:confused: When is Jor-El going to learn :confused:

Are we watching the same show, because by my count Clark couldn't mess things up more if he were trying:mad:

[Mischael12]

Not enough consequences thats the problem, Clark needs to start getting asswhuppings thats what he needs.

[KLGChaos]

I don't know... if someone was telling me how to live my life and started hurting people around me because of it, I wouldn't want to listen to him either. Jor-El seems more like a tyrant than anything else.

[kyl-el]

Yes, Clark should have listened to Jor-El right from the beginning and leave Jonathan and Martha and then rule over earth.........I don't think so. Clarks interests and concerns have never mattered to Jor-El, he's as big of an overpowering bastard as Lionel in my book.

[Mischael12]

We've haven't had any indication really of what Jor-el had wanted, Clark read one thing on this ship and assumed he was out to conquer, when we finally are introduced to Jor-el he was less than passive to get Clark to fulfill his destiny...the problem was that he didn't tall clark what the destiny was, Clark assumed it was to control.

I agree Jor-els methods of getting Clark to listen were not the most passive way to do it...the problem is that Jor-el has yet to be wrong about things that are of great importance.

Why wouldn't Jor-el want his wife to survive? Why would he want Zod to come back?

So much death could have been avoided if Clark had done as Jor-el asked.

[KryptonStones]

Man, Clark didn't even give Jor-El time to explain. He RUSHED into everything as he always does, completely ignoring all the other times Jor-El had been correct. "DON'T FREE ZOD..." "GATHER THE CRYSTALS..." "COME BACK TO ME BY DAWN....." look at that track record! You'd think after all of that he'd give Jor-El the benefit of the doubt or at least reach a compromise with the.......thing...

[SmallvilleMan]

Jor-el needs to learn, because he has no clue how to make Clark understand anything. It's really simple, tell Clark he's putting the people he loves in danger and bam, he'll listen. That and he refuses to believe that Clark has emotions and that wont change.

[erikamichelle614]

I think jor-el is just gonna need to kill everyone before it gets into the BDA's head.

[imafan411]

Clark on some level shouldn't care what Jor'El has to say and then he should...I think maybe he just has to think about what he's doing first...he ALWAYS rushes into things without another thought.

[paolinki25]

I know many people have issues about the way Jor-El treats Clark, and yeah, I don't like how they wrote this father-son relationship to begin with, but when you have a son who's INCREDIBLY stubborn and keeps making the same mistakes over and over again, well, this kind of things are needed to wake him up.

[Mello Penelo]

Clark will never listen to Jor-El. Clark will grow a vagina. Lois will become Batman. Chloe will become C'hp. Lana will become Superman. Lex will become a circus clown.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Jor-el needs to learn, because he has no clue how to make Clark understand anything. It's really simple, tell Clark he's putting the people he loves in danger and bam, he'll listen. That and he refuses to believe that Clark has emotions and that wont change.

I'm sorry, but this situation is on Clark. I don't care if Jor-El is the most evil SOB out there, there are a couple of things that bother me when it comes to Clark in this episode. Number one, he knows that Zor-El is bad based on Kara's vision and Jor-El confirms this prior to him using the crystal. He also knows that the entire crystal was created by Zor-El, what the hell did Clark think was going to happen? Did he honestly think that Zor-El would create a crystal that would simply bring his mother back and that's it?! And another thing, perhaps the most important thing....if Clark doesn't know that he needs to listen to Jor-El now then he really is an incredibly stupid kryptonian. Has Jor-El not followed through on his threats over the course of this show when Clark has gone against him? Like I said above, I don't care if Jor-El is the devil, Clark should have enough sense to realize that going against what Jor-El says at this point of the series is not smart. Seasons 1-4(early part of 4), I can give Clark a pass on this but not now. Too much has happened, IMO, for Clark to not listen to Jor-El.

[moviefan2k4]

Everyone seems to be either forgetting or ignoring one simple fact: the voice in the cave is not Jor-El (even though Terence Stamp is credited as such).

The voice that Clark speaks to is an AI embodied with all of Jor-El's memories. However, because of its mechanical nature, it lacks humanity, compassion, and understanding. In this episode, when Clark refers to Jor-El originally being peaceful, the voice simply responds, "That is not my mission". I took this to mean that the AI was designed to get Clark to cooperate, at any cost. Kara stressed that humanity would destroy itself. My guess is that Jor-El knew as well, and so he gave this "thing" an iron will that could never be defeated...not even by his son.

[paolinki25]

Originally posted by myankskent And another thing, perhaps the most important thing....if Clark doesn't know that he needs to listen to Jor-El now then he really is an incredibly stupid kryptonian. Has Jor-El not followed through on his threats over the course of this show when Clark has gone against him?

I agree. I know Jor-El's methods haven't exactly been the nicest way to teach lessons to his son, but come on, everything he has warned Clark about has come to fruition. You would think that after losing Jonathan in "Reckoning" Clark would show a little more respect towards his father's warnings, or at least be smart and think about the possible consequences of his actions. I'm sorry, but right now, I just don't see how this boy can turn into Superman. He needs some SERIOUS growing up and years and years of training.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by paolinki25
I agree. I know Jor-El's methods haven't exactly been the nicest way to teach lessons to his son, but come on, everything he has warned Clark about has come to fruition. You would think that after losing Jonathan in "Reckoning" Clark would show a little more respect towards his father's warnings, or at least be smart and think about the possible consequences of his actions. I'm sorry, but right now, I just don't see how this boy can turn into Superman. He needs some SERIOUS growing up and years and years of training.

Yup, and I don't want to hear about his mother calling out to him either which is why he decided to use the crystal. That's no excuse for Clark, IMO, not if he actually used his brain and realized just where that crystal came from, Zor-El, the same guy that even Kara admitted was bad news in "Lara".

[paolinki25]

See, but that's the problem with Clark. Don't get me wrong, if there's something I love about Superman and what distinguishes him from other heroes is his capacity to love and care for humans, but there needs to be a balance between his heart and brain, otherwise, he's gonna unintentionally cause a lot of troubles just because his heart speaks before his head.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by paolinki25
See, but that's the problem with Clark. Don't get me wrong, if there's something I love about Superman and what distinguishes him from other heroes is his capacity to love and care for humans, but there needs to be a balance between his heart and brain, otherwise, he's gonna unintentionally cause a lot of troubles just because his heart speaks before his head.

Yeah, I understand that Clark is going to come off looking foolish more often than not on this show because of his capacity to love, but in this situation, no matter how I look at it, there's just no reasoning that I, at least, can find to make a case for Clark to use that crystal. It's wrong no matter how I look at it and it's really making the same mistakes over again after he paid such a big price by going against Jor-El back in season 5.

[amberdawn]

Originally posted by Mello Penelo
Clark will never listen to Jor-El. Clark will grow a vagina. Lois will become Batman. Chloe will become C'hp. Lana will become Superman. Lex will become a circus clown.
:lol:

[kyl-el]

Could a lot of the problems that we're seeing with Clark been avoided if Jor-El hadn't tried to strong-arm his way through things from the beginning? Their relationship had a pretty rough start if you remember. When Clark didn't want to obey him at the end of the third season, he tried to choke Jonathan to death. Again, in season five, someone dies because Clark doesn't obey his will. Do we really want a hero that only accepted his destiny because if he didn't, his crazy birth father would kill another friend/relative? If Jor-El would have started on the right foot from the start, Clark might have been a little quicker to actually listen.

[adromidon]

Originally posted by Mello Penelo
Clark will never listen to Jor-El. Clark will grow a vagina. Lois will become Batman. Chloe will become C'hp. Lana will become Superman. Lex will become a circus clown. LMAO

"And now the big top is proud to present Lex the Balding bozo!"

Lex walks out in a clown getup and does stupid stuff

Different Clown: Hey Lexy what is 6 feet tall used to be rich and balder then a jaw breaker?

Lexy: I do not know what?

Other Clown: Lexy the bald wonder!

[Alexander III]

Clark is such a baby and refusing to listen to his father's warning. Didn't Johnathan always teach him to do the right thing? Clearly rite now Clark's not doing anything right at all! W/ Lana, w/ the release of Zor-El. HOly man geeeeeeeeez.

[adromidon]

And now the dorky Lexy will perform his impression of a pencil eraser

*they put him on a crane and move his bald head back and forth on a piece of paper.

[Baron Karza]

Well, Moviefan is right. That's not Jor-El. It's an AI facsimile. So, naturally it's not going to be all warm and fuzzy like Superpussy would like.

As for its mission, I'm sure it's intended to turn Clark into Superman. We all KNOW that is his destiny.

But on the real tip, Clark needs a super ass-whipping to straighten him out.

I'll get a wet belt with a kryptonite buckle and you hold him down.

[Kal26]

I have to say this just about every day. How many times do I have to be right before you'll listen to me? I'm talking about at home and stuff, but I think Clark gets it now. I hope anyway.

[adromidon]

keep hopeing

[Serynarpc]

Jor - el needs a parenting class. "How to relate to your estranged son when you are a disembodied voice who seems overbearing and tyranical'.

In hindsight, all of Jor - el's instructions would have avoided pain. We wold have seen Lana stay dead, for one.

Yet Clark needs to defy his overbearing father, strike out on his own- and act like a bull in a china shop. Clark needs to stop resisting to resist and a bit of 'This is why it is important for you to do X' from Jor- el wouldn't hurt.

[litew8]

^
You know what's really dumb.
Clark could understand the Jor-El interface if he TRIED.
All he would have to do is spend a day in the FOS and ASK QUESTIONS.

WHY DOESN'T HE DO THAT?
< because the Producers like him dumb >
< AlMiles shouldn't come back from the writer's strike >

[adromidon]

Yeah that is true Jor-El never once said he would not amswer questions if he asked them. Also when Clark said "I know what you were like on Krypton putting others before your own needs. What happened to that?"

Jor-El kind of brushed that off by saying that is not his mission I mean he could have been a little more specific.

[dh1031]

I wish Clark would take that fortress apart piece by piece!! It is too much trouble!

[litew8]

Instead of calling it the Fortress of Sloitude, Clark should just call it "his Fort". :lol:

[adromidon]

lol yeah that would make more sense

[litew8]

Originally posted by adromidon
Jor-El kind of brushed that off by saying that is not his mission I mean he could have been a little more specific. Well, the FOS is an interface of Jor-El's / Kryptonian knowledge. It doesn't have any feelings, it cannot rationalize. When Clark asks a question, the AI simply responds with the most accurate reply it has stored in its databanks.

Clark makes a comment about Jor-El's attitude.
The Jor-El AI just say - uh, burb, "That does not compute."

Clark thinks he's actually talking to Jor-El, but he is not.
He's just talking to a databank of questions/answers. I agree with what you are saying though, the dumb AI could have said -

"That does not compute - Here is why... yada, yada."
They are making Clark look like a bafoon - sitting there trying
to have a one-to-one conversation with his dad.

[meteor]

I think Jor-El has provided Clark ample reason to distrust him in the past considering the callous disregard he has often had for the people that Clark is closest to, and the whole thing from the beginning about coming to conquer. Joe-El is a puzzling character..at times lauding Martha for what she did for his son, and at others seeming to be nothing short of a cold, calcualting machine. However, Jor-El on the subject of warning Calrk about bad moves has pretty much been bang on, and the fact that Clark still hasn't figured that out is kind of lame. during that scene last week at the FOS when Cark was going on his rant about not turning his back on his mother, i was like "oh God..here he goes again". often the guy can't see any farther than his nose.

[adromidon]

Originally posted by litew8
Well, the FOS is an interface of Jor-El's / Kryptonian knowledge. It doesn't have any feelings, it cannot rationalize. When Clark asks a question, the AI simply responds with the most accurate reply it has stored in its databanks.

Clark makes a comment about Jor-El's attitude.
The Jor-El AI just say - uh, burb, "That does not compute."

Clark thinks he's actually talking to Jor-El, but he is not.
He's just talking to a databank of questions/answers. I agree with what you are saying though, the dumb AI could have said -

"That does not compute - Here is why... yada, yada."
They are making Clark look like a bafoon - sitting there trying
to have a one-to-one conversation with his dad. True but the nature of AI is that it adapts and learns based on its situation so could it not have learned that Clark required more of a reason then a one word answer.

But I see what your saying it is an AI which is a computer after all

[litew8]

^
I don't think the AI is suppose to adapt and learn based on situations.
It just has set answers/responses.

As far as training is concerned:
Clark doesn't listen = red flag = consequence (lesson).
Clark does listen = progress to the next level (lesson).
Clark sticks an object into the FOS control panel = red flag = consequence (lesson).
Consequence because the FOS AI has predetermined knowledge
of the outcome of events. Hence, forseeing destiny.

It becomes somewhat farfetched in Smallville, but that's the
only rational way to explain how the AI works.

[adromidon]

ok that makes sense