Time Travel Rules

[christian_kryptonian]

OK, so obviosuly all this is theory. I have NO idea at this point how Heroes plans to cover time travel rules, but all I will say is, it needs to be explained soon so that the writers can have something in stone to work with. THe longer they put this off and have time travel stuff, the less chance of continuity they get. But anyways, what does everyone think? Is it like DOnnie Darko or Back to the Future? Can one timeline create tangent timelines alongside one another? This doe snot seem correct to me, because that would be WAY too complicated concerning Hiro's power. But who knows...OR do you think it is all one timeline and the present chages the future(or sustains the existence of the future) as in Smallville when Clark went back in time in the 100th episode? I am just curious as to what everyone thinks. I have like 5,000,000 theories running around in my head. I just thought it would be a good topic to start discussion over.

[phantom222]

hiro has already created many time paradoxes, such as:

Hiro's trips have given Hiro his own unique timeline, which is reflected in some of Isaac Mendez's paintings of Hiro. Along with the existence of an alternate future version of himself, Hiro has come across or induced a few time paradoxes or alterations in the series.


Between the episodes "Seven Minutes to Midnight" and "Six Months Ago," Hiro traveled six months into the past in Texas.
There, he changed history again by forming a close relationship with Charlie in the past. This change was most noted by a picture which had originally shown only Charlie at her birthday party now showing both her and Hiro.
At one point, Hiro accidentally gives himself a phone call from Texas to Japan, while trying to contact Ando, though he immediately hangs up after he realizes it was the Hiro in Japan who had answered.
In "Seven Minutes to Midnight," Charlie said that someone had given her a Japanese phrasebook on her birthday. In "Six Months Ago," it is Hiro who gives her the phrasebook.
Ironically, in general, the future shown in "Don't Look Back" seems to be even more certain, as changes that have been or intended to have been made have been made futile:

In "Seven Minutes to Midnight," Hiro accidentally travels back in time six months to prevent Charlie from dying, only to find out that she has a clot in her brain and will die anyway.
As of "Distractions," Sylar has escaped his cell and now has an opportunity to kill Isaac Mendez, especially now that Sylar is with Mohinder Suresh. Furthermore, in "Parasite", Isaac precognitively paints several images depicting his own death in a manner consistent with Sylar's victims.
In "Unexpected," Isaac received a gun from Mr. Bennet - the same gun Hiro found in Isaac's apartment when he travelled forward five weeks.

In "One Giant Leap," Hiro travels with Ando to the United States even though Ando was still in Japan when he had previously traveled to New York City five weeks into the future. When directly questioned about this by Ando, Hiro says they are changing the future.

[FUZZYWOOKIEE]

The laws of time travel make my head hurt.:confused:

Although theories can be found in all sorts of media as to these laws, individual properties seem to have their own set of rules. Take Back to the Future, for example, every trip through time resulted in changes to the present. Whereas in Star Trek time travel rarely results in a present altering change upon return, even in IV when they go back for the whales upon their return the earth is still in trouble until they let the whales free, no significant historical changes until they return.

In many circles meeting your past or future self causes a paradox or rift in space-time, but in Bill and Ted it does not seem to matter.

A time loop is something to think about in the case of Heroes because alot of events relied on time travel to create them. In the case of Hiro, if he had not gone back to save Charlie would she have ever had the phrasebook when they first met and hit it off? His going back began a loop that always ultimately ends in her death, yet he must go back so that when they meet in the present they are able to click so nicely, plus if he does not go back he misses out on important lessons about life and his power thus becoming a better hero.

While there are many contradicting rules in various media outlets, I agree that Heroes needs to establish its' own rules for the sake of continuity. My guess is that the rules are already in place, they just have not been revealed yet. Evidenced by when Future Hiro says, " I am risking a rift just by being here", he has learned the rules from experience and someday they will be laid out for all of us.

Thanks now I gotta headache:p

[phantom222]

u know scientists actually discuss paradox theory`s of time travel one of the ones they use the most is the grandfather paradox The paradox is this: Suppose someone traveled back in time and killed his biological grandfather before the latter met the traveller's grandmother. As a result, one of the traveller's parents (and by extension, the traveller himself) would never have been conceived. But this would imply that he could not have travelled back in time after all, which in turn implies the grandfather would still be alive, and the traveller would have been conceived, allowing him to travel back in time and kill his grandfather. Thus each possibility seems to imply its own negation, a type of logical paradox.

Heroe`s must have a set of rules like these. At some point i hoped its reaveled

[FUZZYWOOKIEE]

^^^ I've heard this and agree, if I were to travel back and kill my grandfather then in my present I would cease to exist, but since I've travelled back I did not exist in my own time when I killed said grandfather. Would I cease to exist as soon as he was dead?
When I return to my present is an alternate timeline created where my grandfather was not killed? If we stay with a singular timeline all records of my existence in my present would be erased and I would more than likely be unable to return as I would never have travelled back and would have remain in my past. Lets just say there are alternate timelines and each time time travel is made a new alternate line is created based upon what was changed.

Geez that just opened Pandoras' box.

Not really an expert in time travel my logic may be flawed

[christian_kryptonian]

They need like a WHOLE episode to explain TimeTravel on Heroes.

[FUZZYWOOKIEE]

I think discussion of time travel could go on for the next five weeks and we still would not have a concrete answer. Even if the show explains the rules constant debate would continue thru the end of the season.

[chrisxs5]

Actually when Hiro arrived at the diner the first time in the current timeline Charlie and Hiro had never met and Ando was apart of that. When he went back in time and met her Andos timeline should have changed has it would have been a Charlie/Hiro reunion and not a meeting.

[Drakaun]

After tonight's episode, in the last five minutes we see Hiro has travelled to the future and goes to see Issac thinking he would still be alive. When they get there we see the loft is completely filled with convoluted strings going this way and that way connected here but not connecting there. It seems that Future Hiro has been keeping track of the separate timelines he has created.

I think this is the first step in understanding time travel in the Heroes verse. It seems there are several different timelines that run parallel with each other, but sometimes meet at some point in the future, thus in one timeline New York city has exploded, as we see in the upcoming episode that takes place five years in the future. If they go back in time and prevent the city from exploding at all, technically there are probably two separate timelines running parallel, therefore the separate timeline doesn't become a timeline but an Alternate Universe. Even if they stop the explosion, the heroes we see in the next episode five years in the future, wouldn't suddenly disappear, or change into what they changed it to, but rather they will live their lives out in that timeline wherever it may lead them, but since it is disconnected from the actual past by the events changing it becomes an Alternate Universe and not a separate Timeline because, as I said, it is technically no longer connected to the timeline we see the Heroes living on in the present.

Some examples I can think of off the top of my head take place in the Justice League cartoon. There is an episode where there is a reality where Superman kills Lex Luthor because he killed the Flash and the Justice Lords are formed. These Justice Lords aren't so much about the saving people, but controlling them. In order to ensure their safety they set crazy rules and curfews and what not, thinking they are doing good when in reality they are making lives miserable. The Justice Lord Batman finds an Alternate Universe where Superman didn't kill Lex Luthor, because Lex Luthor never killed the Flash, and thus they are still the Justice League doing things for the better good without making lives miserable.

Technically if their Lex Luthor does in fact kill the flash Superman will in fact kill him and thier timeline would turn into the Alternate Universe, but since their lives are different they will live out their lives as the Justice League and the Alternate Universe will live out their lives as the Justice Lords, because in reality their timelines are not connected unless something is changed to make that connection, thus the theory where timelines can disconnect from one another and form Alternate Universes. I dunno if I am making sense but I hope I am.

[chrisxs5]

I completely agree with you up to the point about the LJ. But I havent seen those eps sp that is why am lost at those. I said in another post how the lines come together as well. I looked at from the Back to the Future point where everything there came together in 1955.

[Portdechar]

They can't have parallel universe (like in the TV show "Sliders")
they would totally lose track of everything, there are way too many actors, scenario, to start adding diffenrent scenarios with the same character from parallel universe because of a "what if" in that universe was different then the original universe we were following...

naa... I like the idea of phantom222

Originally posted by phantom222
In "Seven Minutes to Midnight," Charlie said that someone had given her a Japanese phrasebook on her birthday. In "Six Months Ago," it is Hiro who gives her the phrasebook.
Ironically, in general, the future shown in "Don't Look Back" seems to be even more certain, as changes that have been or intended to have been made ahave been made futile

which kinda means there is only one timeline and whether you are going to the future or the past.
if changes are made in the past, they were already set in place in the present before you let in the first place.
kinda like all of Hiro's actions (past or future) were already takin under consideration in the overview of the timeline

Originally posted by chrisxs5
Actually when Hiro arrived at the diner the first time in the current timeline Charlie and Hiro had never met and Ando was apart of that. When he went back in time and met her Andos timeline should have changed has it would have been a Charlie/Hiro reunion and not a meeting.
I think this is a production error, or maybe Charlie's super intelligence kicked in, and she knew this is Hiro before he went back in time (thus he does n't know her yet) and that's why she was super friendly with him, knowing he will go back in time if she doesn't tell him she is going to die.

One thing that will clear things up is, present Hiro talking to Future Hiro in the next episode.
I'm hoping Future Hiro will say something like, euh, sorry I have my sword out, I forgot I was visiting myself from the past, thus confirming he remembers doing so. (Confirming the one timeline theory)

I wanted to add, if Isaac's painting were absolute (like he's thinkin they are) since he didn't fight Sylar and just stood there...
"fighting the future is futile"

so I'm trying to figure the painting he started, and that Peter finished (about the dead cheerleader) that never happened
this painting is the only thing that does not make sense for me...

anyway, I felt like sharing this, sorry for the headache... ;-)

[chrisxs5]

No headache here. I think from reading the current comic. It clears up alot of this stuff for us. Like how Hiro has been traveling time trying to change that moment. I think alot of the things that are happening are because of future Hiro. Think about it. Future Hiro lived the time once and never meet Charlie at all. Then he comes back to try and change the future giving Peter a message. Thats when Petert told him to meet him in TX. If Peter had never got that message then he would have neverbeen in TX to start with. That one meeting from Future Hiro to Peter was a rift creating 2 Hiros with completely different memories and lives. A good reason that ep was called Hiros!

[smallville/hero fan#1]

portdechar that picture did happen except the cheerleader was jackie not claire

[Portdechar]

ahhhhhhhh that clear things up, thanks smallville/hero fan#1

hey chrisxs5, I hope that is not the case, 'cause diffenrent version of characters because they are from parallel universe would really sucks for me...

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

Time travel....oi vey...what a headache !!

Damn time paradoxs.

The one thing that most who theorise agree is that, while it may be possible to "displace" ourselves in our current time and this the future arrives and we have not aged, going back in time would only be possible if past, present and future co-exsisted at the same time, but in different dimensions.

Change could be effected but that change would create a different continuity and would not effect the continuity from where you came from, ot would be a whole "new universe" sort of speaking.

Changing the past outside that context is no possible because the past has happened and as such, can't be changed, they best one could be in the past is an observer.

Or some BS like that.

[nafeasonto]

I honestly believe no one knows what they are talking about.

[chrisxs5]

Originally posted by Kryptonian-Ronin
Or some BS like that.
That is the best explanation yet!:lol:

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

Originally posted by nafeasonto
I honestly believe no one knows what they are talking about.

That is the beauty of theorizing over something that doesn't exsist, you can never be wrong or right, just talk out of your ass.

:D

Originally posted by chrisxs5
That is the best explanation yet!:lol:

Its also the official scientific term for it too.

[christian_kryptonian]

Time travel is jsut way too crazy. That's the only complaint my dad ahs about Heroes. He's always saying, "I dunno, time travel just usually makes things go screwy"