The focus on Lex's eyes at the end of the episode!

[SVSpector]

I took that to mean full on evil Lex is in the house....

[meggy]

FINALLY! EVIL LEX IS DEFINITELY IN THE HOUSE!!!!!!

[xrayvision]

I got that before that scene. I got that vibe as soon as he threatened Dr. Bethany (aka Hydecker the Shtriga from Supernatural). As soon as I heard his threat, I thought, holy crap, he's there--he's fully evil. I think he killed him, right? I heard Clark say something about a heart attack (probably Lex made it seem like a heart attack). Like what Lionel did to Dirk in the police station in Prodigal.

[Brock Solid]

Recently, he's seemed like an empty shell of a man. Even if he's evil, it seems like he should have more emotion/passion or something. I don't by any means blame MR's acting. I blame it on the writers not giving him enough to work with. The end of this last episode was the first time in a while where I've really noticed how scornful he is.

[SVSpector]

Actually, the electric blast the Dr. fired at Tobias was ricocheted off of Clark and hit the Doc in the chest causing him to die.

[Randy G.]

Hell yeah! We all knew it was coming. I'm glad to see it's finally coming around. :D

[Heilige]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I got that before that scene. I got that vibe as soon as he threatened Dr. Bethany (aka Hydecker the Shtriga from Supernatural). As soon as I heard his threat, I thought, holy crap, he's there--he's fully evil. I think he killed him, right? I heard Clark say something about a heart attack (probably Lex made it seem like a heart attack). Like what Lionel did to Dirk in the police station in Prodigal.


I thought you said he wouldn't be fully evil until Lana left him? And, do you believe he was as evil as he was in Onyx? Though, I must admit man Lex was scary in this episode. IMO, he is very close. I wonder what Lionel thinks.

[xrayvision]

I think he is there and is just holding it back for the time being so that his child can be born. I don't think he will be any more evil when Lana leaves him (since Lana should not be the cause of him getting evil), but instead once she leaves him, she will give him no reason to curb his plans, which he is already doing now, but in a more secretive way. It will all be out in the open once she leaves him, but his plans will be just as evil.

[kryptoPanda]

Yeah ive been waiting for this day...he turns evil...big time. Plus last 2 seasons they kinda hinted that EVIL LEX will soon be amongst us all.

Also...remember the blind old lady? She saw his future...full of destruction =) I kinda like this now...its..creepy.

[Heilige]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I think he is there and is just holding it back for the time being so that his child can be born. I don't think he will be any more evil when Lana leaves him (since Lana should not be the cause of him getting evil), but instead once she leaves him, she will give him no reason to curb his plans, which he is already doing now, but in a more secretive way. It will all be out in the open once she leaves him, but his plans will be just as evil.


Ok. Gotcha. :) Would you say Freak is the episode where Lex officially becomes fully evil?

Also, would you say Lex is more evil than Lionel was in the earlier seasons and more evil than his evil side in Onyx?

[xrayvision]

Maybe not the one where he becomes, but the one where it is apparent that he already is. In Crimson, Labyrinth, and Trespass, he was shown in a way where you could actually like him somewhat or feel sorry for him. But in this episode, he truly showed what he was all about. Especially with the threat to Dr. Bethany and with him swearing on the soul of his unborn child.

Originally posted by Heilige
Ok. Gotcha. :) Would you say Freak is the episode where Lex officially becomes fully evil?

Also, would you say Lex is more evil than Lionel was in the earlier seasons and more evil than his evil side in Onyx?

I don't think Lex is up to the level Lionel was at yet. But if he kills Lionel, which we all expect, he would do something to Lionel that Lionel never did to Lex.

As for the Onyx evil Lex, I don't think he will ever get that evil. I think that is pure evil Lex. As bad as Lex will always be, he will still have a very small amount of good in him. I think he will still do things to protect humans and society from aliens, but his methods will be bad. The Lex in Onyx wanted to help nobody but himself. He wanted to rule the world and nothing held him back, not even Lana. He threw Lana out of her apartment. This Lex would not have done that. The current Lex wants to become president. The type of ruler that Onyx Lex wanted to be was like a ruthless dictator. He had no limits. And a Lex like that could probably kill Superman without too much trouble. I think that the evil Onyx Lex was the greatest Lex ever portrayed by live actors.

[DARKRAGE]

well am directing so lets focas on my eyes this guy was hamming it up it up all through the episode

[Heilige]

Originally posted by xrayvision
Maybe not the one where he becomes, but the one where it is apparent that he already is. In Crimson, Labyrinth, and Trespass, he was shown in a way where you could actually like him somewhat or feel sorry for him. But in this episode, he truly showed what he was all about. Especially with the threat to Dr. Bethany and with him swearing on the soul of his unborn child.



I don't think Lex is up to the level Lionel was at yet. But if he kills Lionel, which we all expect, he would do something to Lionel that Lionel never did to Lex.

As for the Onyx evil Lex, I don't think he will ever get that evil. I think that is pure evil Lex. As bad as Lex will always be, he will still have a very small amount of good in him. I think he will still do things to protect humans and society from aliens, but his methods will be bad. The Lex in Onyx wanted to help nobody but himself. He wanted to rule the world and nothing held him back, not even Lana. He threw Lana out of her apartment. This Lex would not have done that. The current Lex wants to become president. The type of ruler that Onyx Lex wanted to be was like a ruthless dictator. He had no limits. And a Lex like that could probably kill Superman without too much trouble. I think that the evil Onyx Lex was the greatest Lex ever portrayed by live actors.

Actually, I believe Lex will become as evil as the Onyx Lex. You know he wants to rule the world right in the future? That is th esame as a ruthless dictator. Have you seen the Superman Returns movie where Lex was very excited at the thoughts of billions of people dying because of his nefarious plan? That right there was a Lex just as evil as Onyx Lex. Now do you think he could get as evil as Onyx Lex?

[xrayvision]

I don't take Superman Returns to be anything of value or cannon. I posted more about this here:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2739086#post2739086

If you look at the last paragraph, I show how that Onyx Lex is even worse than the Lex we will know. That one was totally devoid of morals, which the one we know will still have. In the comics, Lex becomes president to protect his people from aliens due to his distrust of Superman. The Onyx Lex would never do that. He would kill Superman and not care about killing anyone else. The Lex of the future will probably avoid wasting people who are valuable to him and who he could use. Onyx Lex wouldn't care, and did try to kill Clark & Chloe by dropping the lab on them. The evil Lex of today is just investigating Chloe, and has not tried to kill her yet. If this was Onyx Lex, she would be dead by now. And one of the main things that Onyx Lex did that the current & future Lex will never do is find out Clark's secret.

[Heilige]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I don't take Superman Returns to be anything of value or cannon. I posted more about this here:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2739086#post2739086

If you look at the last paragraph, I show how that Onyx Lex is even worse than the Lex we will know. That one was totally devoid of morals, which the one we know will still have. In the comics, Lex becomes president to protect his people from aliens due to his distrust of Superman. The Onyx Lex would never do that. He would kill Superman and not care about killing anyone else. The Lex of the future will probably avoid wasting people who are valuable to him and who he could use. Onyx Lex wouldn't care, and did try to kill Clark & Chloe by dropping the lab on them. The evil Lex of today is just investigating Chloe, and has not tried to kill her yet. If this was Onyx Lex, she would be dead by now. And one of the main things that Onyx Lex did that the current & future Lex will never do is find out Clark's secret.

This Lex in Smallville wants to rule the world and not just be president right? This Lex will try to kill Chloe I believe in the future and others after he goes insane when Lana leaves him. Will you maybe change your mind as the show progresses. We don't know what else Lex is goign to do just yet. I guess we will have to wait for more episodes to see how much farther he will go. Do you agree?

[khol145]

Originally posted by meggy
FINALLY! EVIL LEX IS DEFINITELY IN THE HOUSE!!!!!!

I don't think he fully evil yet, maybe 85%.

[Krypton935]

That was so incredibly awesome. I loved it
EVIL LEX IN THE HOUSE!!!!

[Stephen Robinson]

I don't think Lex is up to the level Lionel was at yet. But if he kills Lionel, which we all expect, he would do something to Lionel that Lionel never did to Lex.

***************

SER: In defense of Lionel, I think Lex has been depicted as "more evil" than his father. Why? Well, in the first two seasons, Lionel is a lying rat bastard but no one we would consider "evil" (he's sort of a more charming Donald Trump). Third season Lionel is what everyone thinks of when they talk about Lionel's evil. However, that Lionel was dying from a terminal illness and was completely desperate as a result. This does not condone his actions but I think there's a difference between Lionel wanting to find out the truth about Clark because he thinks it might save his life and Lex doing so (and risking Clark's life, as well as his family) for simple curiosity (nothing was personally at stake for him).

Lionel did some awful stuff to Lex in SHATTERED but again that was out of desperation (Lex was attempting to expose him as a murderer).

Conversely, the majority of evil things Lex has done, especially in the past couple seasons, were completely premeditated with Lex of a wholly sound mind.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Heilige
This Lex in Smallville wants to rule the world and not just be president right? This Lex will try to kill Chloe I believe in the future and others after he goes insane when Lana leaves him. Will you maybe change your mind as the show progresses. We don't know what else Lex is goign to do just yet. I guess we will have to wait for more episodes to see how much farther he will go. Do you agree?

I don't know. I'm not sure he will go insane. Lex is traditionally a maniac, and it may be possible that he is already one. He obsessed over Clark, is conducting some crazy experiment in Lana, and is doing a lot more. One thing he has not yet done is kill someone with his own hands in cold blood. We know he has paid others to murder (Dr. Pamela Black was killed like this in Rage).

But the thing I think is that Lex will always have a very small amount of good and/or in him as was mentioned by several great posts in the below thread:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67152

The Onyx Lex lacked even that. The Onyx Lex didn't allow a woman to change him and did not want to be saved. I'm guessing a small part of him will always wish to have the burden of his darkness to be lifted. The Onyx Lex wouldn't. But I will give it time to see if he does end up like that. As evil as Lex was in Freak, had Onyx Lex been there, he would have killed Dr. Bethany himself and tracked down the laptop and killed the person who has it (Chloe).

[silverfist]

As a reply to the above post, I seriously think that Lex is already evil enough to murder a person himself, if needed. He have just been able to avoid getting his own hands dirty so far.

I think that the reason why he doesn't seem to do anything himself, unlike Onyx Lex, isn't because he's necessarily less evil overall. I'd say he's just less impulsive and far more calculated than his Onyx version...which should probably also make him even more dangerous in the long run. I think that the Onyx Lex was just 100% maniac and likely not as much brain as the two sides of him combined.

[greysfan511]

lexs eyes were so hot!! evil look...hehehehehehe....finally evil lex has all hell breaking loose. hehehehehehehe!!

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Stephen Robinson
SER: In defense of Lionel, I think Lex has been depicted as "more evil" than his father. Why? Well, in the first two seasons, Lionel is a lying rat bastard but no one we would consider "evil" (he's sort of a more charming Donald Trump). Third season Lionel is what everyone thinks of when they talk about Lionel's evil. However, that Lionel was dying from a terminal illness and was completely desperate as a result. This does not condone his actions but I think there's a difference between Lionel wanting to find out the truth about Clark because he thinks it might save his life and Lex doing so (and risking Clark's life, as well as his family) for simple curiosity (nothing was personally at stake for him).

Lionel did some awful stuff to Lex in SHATTERED but again that was out of desperation (Lex was attempting to expose him as a murderer).

Conversely, the majority of evil things Lex has done, especially in the past couple seasons, were completely premeditated with Lex of a wholly sound mind.

Lionel was (maybe still is) evil. He actually did try to kill Lex and would have succeeded if Martha hadn't stopped him in Transference. I would not call Lionel a charming billionaire. Here is thread documenting all the stuff he has done that is evil, ambiguous, and at best mysterious:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69995

Originally posted by silverfist
I'd say he's just less impulsive and far more calculated than his Onyx version...which should probably also make him even more dangerous in the long run. I think that the Onyx Lex was just 100% maniac and likely not as much brain as the two sides of him combined.

I disagree with this. When he snuck into Luthorcorp and spied on Clark & his other half, he was able to find out Clark's secret. This showed a lot more smarts & cunningness than Lex ever had. In fact, I think them showing us how he found Clark's secret was their way of telling us how Lionel finds out so many things that Lex tries to hide from him (the black ship being in warehouse 15, how Lex & Fine were working together with all those viruses, etc). To me, this means that Onyx Lex had that same ability to find the most hidden things as Lionel is shown to have, plus has that evil streak in him that Lex now has---making him the ultimate villian and the most dangerous one (i.e. Onyx Lex = Lex + Lionel).

[Sweetie]

His darling blue eyes were turning darker & darker...It's like he was saying...I'm the vilain of the story now,I am the real Lex Luthor!!!


I loved it!!!

[redraven]

Originally posted by xrayvision
One thing he has not yet done is kill someone with his own hands in cold blood.

Lex killed that meteor freak guy in Static with a knife.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by redraven
Lex killed that meteor freak guy in Static with a knife.

That was self defense, not in cold blood. He also killed Roger Nixon who was about to kill Jonathan Kent. But these are really not murder since he or someone else was in danger.

The closest he came was having Pamela Black (the doctor from Rage) killed by having one of the halfway house guys do it.

[ShelbyKent]

Bar none, the best scene of the episode.

With that brief shot, you can practically hear the gears turning in Lex's brain. Lex's look was ominous and it heightens viewer anticipation for any dastardly plan he has in mind for Chloe. A very good lead-in to Progeny IMHO. MR made a good decision in ending with that shot.

[Heilige]

Originally posted by xrayvision
That was self defense, not in cold blood. He also killed Roger Nixon who was about to kill Jonathan Kent. But these are really not murder since he or someone else was in danger.

The closest he came was having Pamela Black (the doctor from Rage) killed by having one of the halfway house guys do it.


How do you know Lex was responsible for Pamela Black? What about Green Arrow?

[Lone Soul]

Yeah I think we can give Kudo's to Michael himself for directing the camera to zoom in dramatically into his eyes.

I liked it.

[RPMSDB]

Literally sent chills down my spine.

[drwood]

Originally posted by Heilige
Ok. Gotcha. :) Would you say Freak is the episode where Lex officially becomes fully evil?

Also, would you say Lex is more evil than Lionel was in the earlier seasons and more evil than his evil side in Onyx?


Funny, I just saw Onyx on CW last night...interesting to compare Alexander with present-day Lex. Lex isn't as evil as Lionel was (especially in season 3), but he's getting there fast.

I think Lex officially became evil when he manipulated Clark in "Blank" (the season 4 episode where Clark's memory was erased and Chloe had to help him).

[Ireallylikethisshow]

Originally posted by SVSpector
I took that to mean full on evil Lex is in the house....

I didn't really like that shot...

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Heilige
How do you know Lex was responsible for Pamela Black? What about Green Arrow?

Because Green Arrow is a hero, not a killer. If they wrote Green Arrow as a killer, then nobody would ever take him seriously. Plus Lex was the one who threatened the doctor, not Ollie. He was very angry when he saw her destroying the drug. And Ollie wouldn't be stupid enough to leave an arrow at the crime scene. He was obviously framed. If Ollie did it, Clark would have taken him into custody.

[lillie_poo_pod]

That look sent chills down my spine. I almost pee'd my pants.

[Bart_Allen_Fan]

Evil Lex is definately in da house. I got chills at that final scene with Lex. It was awsome. Lex actually had people killed on this episode. I don't think he's done that before. Lex finally crossed the line on this episode, and I can't wait to see what happens next.

[Bandit06]

all we need now is lex to do the evil laugh :lol:

[xrayvision]

He had Pamela Black killed in Rage. I'm not sure if he was the one who wanted those freaks killed in Freak or if it was all Dr. Bethany. We know Bethany wanted to kill Tobias even though Lex wanted him unharmed as he told him.

The only thing that puts doubts in my mind about Bethany acting all on his own in killing them was that other freak that was killed in Granville. We know that Daniel was killed about 15 minutes before Chloe got the map on the laptop to show up. That may have been enough time for the doctor to go to Granville and kill the freak there. And after that, the doctor went to Tobias' house and tried to kill him.

So I'm not sure. It may be that killing all those freaks could have required more than 1 guy doing it. But the dots seemed close enough that it would be possible for it to have been all Bethany's killings. And they didn't give us any info on the time elapse from the Talon scene with Clark taking the chip out of Chloe to the next scene at Tobias' house.

[Heilige]

Originally posted by xrayvision
Because Green Arrow is a hero, not a killer. If they wrote Green Arrow as a killer, then nobody would ever take him seriously. Plus Lex was the one who threatened the doctor, not Ollie. He was very angry when he saw her destroying the drug. And Ollie wouldn't be stupid enough to leave an arrow at the crime scene. He was obviously framed. If Ollie did it, Clark would have taken him into custody.


Wasn't GA under the influence though? Also, are you saying if you kill somebody you can't be classified as a hero?

[xrayvision]

Yeah, he was under the influence, but he did not know about her destroying the medicine, Lex did. If you kill in cold blood, then I would it wouldn't make you a hero. And her death was not for self defense, but instead payback for destroying the medicine. It wasn't even something like Jason Todd in the comics would do. He is anti-Batman because he kills villians & criminals to stop them from repeat offenses while saving the innocent. But Dr. Black wasn't a murderer or rapist or anything like Jason Todd would kill.