TALISMAN Redux???

[khufu]

Ok, so the obvious conclusion is supposed to be that Chloe is a meteor freak. But there was something very... familiar... about the scene in which Tobias supposedly "identifies" Chloe as a freak. It reminded me very much of the scene in Talisman where Lex and Lionel both reach for the dagger at the same time and it disintegrates. The identity of "Sageeth" is left ambiguous. And initially, the characters in the story come to the wrong conclusion. Well, the scene in tonights episode was unusually ambiguous. The timing of Clark bending down to catch the glass - the fact that they do NOT show us anything from Tobias' POV - and the fact that Tobias never looks at Clark again throughout the rest of the episode... that all seems suspicious.

And I don't see the point of them making it ambiguous to build suspense before revealing that it's Chloe within the episode itself, because the very next scene pretty much leads us to believe that it's her anyways - so why the ambiguity? Anyway, I definitely see a parallel here...

[savingpeoplething]

Originally posted by khufu
- the fact that they do NOT show us anything from Tobias' POV

What gets me is...
They took the effort to show how Tobias identifies Dan The Man in the bowling alley with the special effect, but there was ABSOLUTELY nothing like that when he identifies Chloe.
NOTHING.

AND, she's standing RIGHT NEXT to Clark in that moment.

Something doesn't seem right about all that.

If they wanted us to buy into Chloe being a meteor freak, wouldn't they have actually SHOWN the effect to confirm it?

[myankskent]

Originally posted by savingpeoplething
What gets me is...
They took the effort to show how Tobias identifies Dan The Man in the bowling alley with the special effect, but there was ABSOLUTELY nothing like that when he identifies Chloe.
NOTHING.

AND, she's standing RIGHT NEXT to Clark in that moment.

Something doesn't seem right about all that.

If they wanted us to buy into Chloe being a meteor freak, wouldn't they have actually SHOWN the effect to confirm it?

I don't think that they showed the effect because they wanted the audience to naturally assume that it was Clark and then later, reveal that it was Chloe. Why would they show that it was Chloe right there and destroy the big reveal later on?

[chlarklove]

ITA khufu!

Originally posted by myankskent
I don't think that they showed the effect because they wanted the audience to naturally assume that it was Clark and then later, reveal that it was Chloe. Why would they show that it was Chloe right there and destroy the big reveal later on?

But they revealed that Chloe was a freak in the trailer after last week's episode.

Oops.

Spoiled already. :p

[khufu]

Originally posted by myankskent
I don't think that they showed the effect because they wanted the audience to naturally assume that it was Clark and then later, reveal that it was Chloe. Why would they show that it was Chloe right there and destroy the big reveal later on? Because the "big reveal" came like 2 minutes later when Clark hears him on the phone and then Chloe is immediately kidnapped. I mean really, how long was the suspense between him making the call and them kidnapping Chloe??? (Not to mention, all the promos advertise Chloe as the freak).

[myankskent]

Originally posted by khufu
Because the "big reveal" came like 2 minutes later when Clark hears him on the phone and then Chloe is immediately kidnapped. I mean really, how long was the suspense between him making the call and them kidnapping Chloe??? (Not to mention, all the promos advertise Chloe as the freak).

2 minutes later? No, try ten minutes later with a commercial break thrown in as well. Clark didn't hear on the phone who the freak was so there was no reveal. He only knew that one of them was a freak. Then, ten minutes later after one commercial break, they went to commercial after Clark heard Tobias say that Chloe was meteor infected, clearly TPTB wanted that to be the first time the audience knew for sure who the meteor freak was. Sorry, but I think that TPTB wanted the audience to find out who the meteor freak was at the same time as Clark. And as for the previews, since when do previews reveal 100 percent what is going to happen in the episode? Aren't previews misleading most of the time? I heard many people on these boards question the fact that Chloe was actually a meteor freak heading into this episode.

[khufu]

Originally posted by myankskent
2 minutes later? No, try ten minutes later with a commercial break thrown in as well. Clark didn't hear on the phone who the freak was so there was no reveal. He only knew that one of them was a freak. Then, ten minutes later after one commercial break, they went to commercial after Clark heard Tobias say that Chloe was meteor infected, clearly TPTB wanted that to be the first time the audience knew for sure who the meteor freak was. Sorry, but I think that TPTB wanted the audience to find out who the meteor freak was at the same time as Clark. And as for the previews, since when do previews reveal 100 percent what is going to happen in the episode? Aren't previews misleading most of the time? I heard many people on these boards question the fact that Chloe was actually a meteor freak heading into this episode. Dude, I don't count the commercial. I'm talking about the actual episode. Nothing really plays out between when we know that one of them is a freak, and when we find out it's supposedly Chloe.

[Crispin Glover]

savingpeoplething

(What gets me is...
They took the effort to show how Tobias identifies Dan The Man in the bowling alley with the special effect, but there was ABSOLUTELY nothing like that when he identifies Chloe.
NOTHING.)

Money, and it would lessen the emotional drama.

[xrayvision]

I think that they didn't show it because they want us in the dark if Chloe will be a freak or not. Yes, they kept saying that Chloe was the freak, but we don't know that yet because Clark was kneeling to grab the glasses and he could have mistaken Chloe for Clark. I think this is just another thing to make the viewers wonder about Chloe. First was whether or not she would go insane from Scare and now it's whether she's a freak or not. I think it was a good idea.

[BenG]

TPTB have nothing to do with the promos. The effect was not shown specifically to build suspense and mislead people into thinking it was Clark as said above. And in all honesty, if it wasn't for spoilers, it seriously WOULD HAVE WORKED. I think if I hadn't seen the promos or read Kryptonsite it would have been a major shocker that Chloe is a freak. In my opinion, that was very well written.

The CW chose to be idiots and reveal that information in the commercial, that was their fault. It could have been a MUCH more shocking moment.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by khufu
Dude, I don't count the commercial. I'm talking about the actual episode. Nothing really plays out between when we know that one of them is a freak, and when we find out it's supposedly Chloe.

Ok, so then it's seven minutes without the commercial. The bottom line is that TPTB went to commercial when Clark learned on the phone that one of them is meteor infected. They didn't say who it was for a reason because TPTB didn't want to give it away at that point. The placement of the commercial is important there where people are left wondering who was seen as the meteor freak and I bet that many people thought that it was Clark. Then in the next segment, it wasn't until the very end of that segment when Clark and the audience found out that it was Chloe who was the freak. It was just TPTB trying to drag out who it was, that's all, and then hopefully surprising some people when it turns out to be Chloe.

[xrayvision]

So had they shown us the effect, we would know instantly who the freak was, but now we still don't know.

My personal opinion is that it was Clark (even though he's not a freak, I think Tobias sees Kryptonians as freaks). I think this was their way of getting Chloe back on Lex's radar & for creating a lot of suspense for the fans.

Originally posted by myankskent
Ok, so then it's seven minutes without the commercial. The bottom line is that TPTB went to commercial when Clark learned on the phone that one of them is meteor infected. They didn't say who it was for a reason because TPTB didn't want to give it away at that point. The placement of the commercial is important there where people are left wondering who was seen as the meteor freak and I bet that many people thought that it was Clark. Then in the next segment, it wasn't until the very end of that segment when Clark and the audience found out that it was Chloe who was the freak. It was just TPTB trying to drag out who it was, that's all, and then hopefully surprising some people when it turns out to be Chloe.

And the thing is, they're still dragging it on. The fact that we're discussing it proves it. I still think Clark is the real freak. It has to be why they didn't show the effect and why they cut out the scene from the director's cut that shows him scanning the whole bowling alley (including Chloe & Lana) and sees no other freak than Dan.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by xrayvision

And the thing is, they're still dragging it on. The fact that we're discussing it proves it. I still think Clark is the real freak. It has to be why they didn't show the effect and why they cut out the scene from the director's cut that shows him scanning the whole bowling alley (including Chloe & Lana) and sees no other freak than Dan.

I think that it was clear that Chloe was the freak. When Tobias dropped his glasses, he was staring at Clark for about five seconds who was right in front of him. Then Clark reached down to pick up his glasses while Tobias was looking at both he and Chloe. I don't see how Tobias could be wrong in this scenario, he had plenty of time to see both Clark and Chloe.

[Doox]

Perhaps...they want us to stay interested in the upcoming episodes and give us more loose ends to discuss? What good is it from TPTB's point of view to give us all the answers immediately?

[xrayvision]

Hmm. Good point. They may still be messing with us (like the explosion in Covenant). I'm not sure. I did make another post about this:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2826007#post2826007

And they still had Clark question if Chloe is a freak or not. They did talk about latent abilities, but Clark still has his doubts.

[BenG]

The fact that we're going so deeply into this an hour after the episode shows that this was actually some VERY good writing, much better than usual, in my opinion.

[xrayvision]

You can say that again.

[ShelbyKent]

Originally posted by xrayvision
And the thing is, they're still dragging it on. The fact that we're discussing it proves it. I still think Clark is the real freak. It has to be why they didn't show the effect and why they cut out the scene from the director's cut that shows him scanning the whole bowling alley (including Chloe & Lana) and sees no other freak than Dan.

I think TPTB are dragging it on so it would create lingering tension among the viewers & anticipation for the screening of Progeny. This is a good strategy for TPTB given the month-long break ahead of us. It gives us something to ponder on/ nitpick while we wait for the new eppies in March.

[xrayvision]

I'm guessing it will even be dragged out further. I think this may be one of the big arcs in season 7, the final season. We know that AM is done after that, so whatever happens to Chloe must be done by next season.

[ShelbyKent]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I'm guessing it will even be dragged out further. I think this may be one of the big arcs in season 7, the final season. We know that AM is done after that, so whatever happens to Chloe must be done by next season.

If hope TPTB don't drag it out too much. I'd prefer to have mini-arcs versus a season long arc. I mean it's just either "yes, she is" OR "no, she isnt". Whatever the answer is, the next plot arc should deal with the consequences of that answer.

I'm hoping we get more indicative spoilers about this during the break.

[MidgardDragon]

Originally posted by myankskent
I don't think that they showed the effect because they wanted the audience to naturally assume that it was Clark and then later, reveal that it was Chloe.

You hit the nail on the head. There is absolutely no reason that Clark should ever show up as a meteor freak to Tobias, so it wasn't just that he saw part of Clark and assumed it was Chloe. Clark is an alien that is harmed by Kryptonite, if there was any in his system he would be in constant pain. The reason we didn't see Chloe from Tobias' point of view is because the viewer was supposed to think he saw Clark (then do a double take and say, "Wait, Clark isn't a meteor freak.")

This was the setup to the reveal later on that Chloe was the freak. Unfortunately when you want to do a surprise like that you shouldn't really promote the episode as Chloe being a freak. Personally, I think they should've promoted the episode as "Will he identify Clark as a meteor freak and will Lex get his hands on him?" etc. etc. Then we could've had the debate for weeks before the episode aired about how Clark isn't a freak, and they could've surprised us with "Well duh Clark's not a freak, Chloe's the freak!"

Then again, promoting the Chloe part was probably a smart movie, since she is so popular. The marketing guys probably had a hard time making that decision. "Do we promote one of our most popular characters, or do we keep the twist a surprise?"

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
You hit the nail on the head. There is absolutely no reason that Clark should ever show up as a meteor freak to Tobias, so it wasn't just that he saw part of Clark and assumed it was Chloe. Clark is an alien that is harmed by Kryptonite, if there was any in his system he would be in constant pain. The reason we didn't see Chloe from Tobias' point of view is because the viewer was supposed to think he saw Clark (then do a double take and say, "Wait, Clark isn't a meteor freak.")

This was the setup to the reveal later on that Chloe was the freak. Unfortunately when you want to do a surprise like that you shouldn't really promote the episode as Chloe being a freak. Personally, I think they should've promoted the episode as "Will he identify Clark as a meteor freak and will Lex get his hands on him?" etc. etc. Then we could've had the debate for weeks before the episode aired about how Clark isn't a freak, and they could've surprised us with "Well duh Clark's not a freak, Chloe's the freak!"

Then again, promoting the Chloe part was probably a smart movie, since she is so popular. The marketing guys probably had a hard time making that decision. "Do we promote one of our most popular characters, or do we keep the twist a surprise?"

The thing we don't entirely know is the nature of how Tobias' freakvision works. Do freaks generate something that he detects? Or does he detect DNA that is not typical of a normal human. If it's the latter, then Clark should definitely appear as a "freak" to Tobias. I posted a theory that may explain the possibility of Tobias mistaking Chloe as a freak:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2830246#post2830246

[chlo-el]

I think they left it ambigouse and not show anything yet on purpose so we're still questioning is Chloe really meteor freak and the reveal will come later.

[xrayvision]

^^That is exactly what I said :). There is still a huge degree of uncertainty. And I'm thinking that they're saving the reveal for next season since once Lex is done with Lana, there will have to be something that connects him to the other characters, and him suspecting that Chloe is a meteor freak, even though she may not be one would create a Lex-Chloe war.