How do you feel about Clark telling Chloe Everyone Else's Secret. [Archive]

chlarklove

01-18-2007, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
I was under the impression that Chloe already knew Victor and AC were superpowered. The only one he outed was Bart, and at the time he needed Chloe's help to track him down for his own safety. The only thing he really outted the others on was working for GA.

Exactly. Even though technically Chloe should have already known about Bart, but whatever.

I loved it. Chloe's line to Oliver was perfect.

"We trust each other, he tells me about everything.. well almost everything.. " (meaning she had to figure out Ollie was GA on her own) :p

Originally posted by Ginx
Well that's a good point. But the out of working for the GA is kinda a big deal - before they were just people that randomly came and went - now they are connected as a team and that can be more dangerous on who knows that...imo.

And yet they didn't mind. Chloe was a real asset to them and they needed her help. So there was no issue.

Rosey

01-18-2007, 09:26 PM

kiariclois

01-18-2007, 09:26 PM

Deana

01-18-2007, 09:30 PM

MidgardDragon

01-18-2007, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by Deana
I'm just talking about the Bart thing. Clark should not have outed Bart.

The whole time I was watching, I was thinking I supposed to believe this guy will not only be Superman but a hotshot investigative reporter.

Heroes Code of Honor my butt...

But you missed the point, he needed Chloe's help and *knew* she could keep a super-secret based on past experiences. As someone else said, none of the team minded, even Bart, as she came in very helpful. I bet Bart was quite glad to know that his secret was given now that he knew Chloe helped save his life. And just look at how much fun he had superspeeding in front of her?

Khyla

01-18-2007, 09:33 PM

CHloe already knew about AC from the episode " Aqua" , and she already knew about Victor from "Cyborg". She also found out about Green Arrow by putting two and two together in last week's episode.

Effect

01-18-2007, 09:34 PM

The way I saw it he didn't really have a choice when it came to outing Bart. I took it as apart of him not wanting to hurt her anymore the he already has over the last few years and being more open with her. She's done so much already at least he could be straight with her and it was quicker for him to track Bart down and the only way to make the connection with Green Arrow as well I think. If not the story couldn't have progressed well.

meggy

01-18-2007, 09:35 PM

i got the same impression MidgardDragon..remember Chloe knew about AC in Aqua, and she helped research Victor in Cyborg...she knew about them before...and she figured out GA last week.....

Clark only told her about Bart to help him.and that was after his thing about keeping secrets from those he cares about....

so all he did was say that they worked with Ollie...and remember, Ollie would be surprised because he doesnt know that Chloe knew of them before...

so no, i'm not disappointed in Clark

Rachel B

01-18-2007, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
But you missed the point, he needed Chloe's help and *knew* she could keep a super-secret based on past experiences. As someone else said, none of the team minded, even Bart, as she came in very helpful. I bet Bart was quite glad to know that his secret was given now that he knew Chloe helped save his life. And just look at how much fun he had superspeeding in front of her?

I agree. Clark knew that he could trust Chloe with important information. And he did not tell her the truth until he needed her help so I can't blame him for telling her

D.M.A.

01-18-2007, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
I was under the impression that Chloe already knew Victor and AC were superpowered. The only one he outed was Bart, and at the time he needed Chloe's help to track him down for his own safety. The only thing he really outted the others on was working for GA.
I agree,she knew of cyborg and ac already but didn't kno about bart.He only outted bart but he felt he had 2 and it worked in narrowin down the possibilities to his whereabouts 2.The prob I think sum r forgettin is that she knew of AC/Cyborg from last season its jus the guyz didn't kno she knew,but clark didn't tell on them.Thats why she makes it clear to them that her and clark r closer than they think,even they dont kno clark as well so for him to tell her they were alil shock.But what they didn't kno was she already knew of them all,and even reassures them by sayin she had to figure out oliver secret on her own.The boyz were shocked cause they dont kno clark that well to kno he shared his own secret wit her(Since most believe he kept things to himself).I saw no prob wit tonight

Deana

01-18-2007, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
But you missed the point, he needed Chloe's help and *knew* she could keep a super-secret based on past experiences. As someone else said, none of the team minded, even Bart, as she came in very helpful. I bet Bart was quite glad to know that his secret was given now that he knew Chloe helped save his life. And just look at how much fun he had superspeeding in front of her? If Clark was the Clark Kent I love, he would've investigated everything himself and found Bart, or maybe went to Oliver and made cryptic remarks about his friend being missing and asked him to help.

That action would've made Oliver realize that he was talking about Bart.

It's not farfetched because Oliver owed him for helping him to trick Lois.

ChlarkMe

01-18-2007, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by Khyla
CHloe already knew about AC from the episode " Aqua" , and she already knew about Victor from "Cyborg". She also found out about Green Arrow by putting two and two together in last week's episode.

Wow, I must have been snoozing I'll have to watch them again. I really didn't know Chloe knew about them.

Thanks for the info

:) :)

D.M.A.

01-18-2007, 09:39 PM

MidgardDragon

01-18-2007, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by Deana
If Clark was the Clark Kent I love, he would've investigated everything himself and found Bart, or maybe went to Oliver and made cryptic remarks about his friend being missing and asked him to help.

That action would've made Oliver realize that he was talking about Bart.

It's not farfetched because Oliver owed him for helping him to trick Lois.

Even iconic Superman needs help sometimes. In the future, that help will usually come from Lois. After he tells Lois his secret, he's more open with her about pretty much everything. Chloe is and always has been a sort of replacement for Lois Lane until Clark and the real Lois get to the DP in the future. He ran to proto-Lois for help, as a partnership. He's also partners with Lois in the future and would've asked her for help.

D.M.A.

01-18-2007, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by Effect
The way I saw it he didn't really have a choice when it came to outing Bart. I took it as apart of him not wanting to hurt her anymore the he already has over the last few years and being more open with her. She's done so much already at least he could be straight with her and it was quicker for him to track Bart down and the only way to make the connection with Green Arrow as well I think. If not the story couldn't have progressed well.
I agree he had no choice and knew it was better to be more open wit her since he has in the past.Its not like she was pressin him for info he told on his own,cause he felt it was necessary and it was.They made it clear there were a good lil number of labs to search and didn't have time if he was in danger,so clark thought of his friend needin help and went to chloe to help cut down the choices.Plus wit the way he's been shuttin her out this season it was nice imo to show him come clean and feel bad for not tellin her sooner,she even assures him she understands.They have that type of relationship and even chloe lets the boyz in on it when she tells them proudly about her and clark bein so close.Imo it was needed for her to kno,nothin wrong wit it

wallyK

01-18-2007, 09:45 PM

I agree that Chloe found out everything just a little too fast, but given everything going on in the episode, there there was not much the writers could do. They clearly wanted her to be helping the beginning Justice League, so they had to get her up to speed pretty quickly. Strictly speaking, Clark should not have told Chloe that Bart was working for Oliver, but again we have the necessity of very quickly integrating Chloe into the Justice League.

Tonight's story was not about whether Clark is a trustworthy guy, it was about the forming of the Justice League, with Clark Kent intending to eventually join. He saw the value of working with a team. That's why his butt had to be saved, to see that he had friends watching his back.

D.M.A.

01-18-2007, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
Even iconic Superman needs help sometimes. In the future, that help will usually come from Lois. After he tells Lois his secret, he's more open with her about pretty much everything. Chloe is and always has been a sort of replacement for Lois Lane until Clark and the real Lois get to the DP in the future. He ran to proto-Lois for help, as a partnership. He's also partners with Lois in the future and would've asked her for help.
I agree and dont see why so many complain about chlark partnership yet luv their friendship.I mean he pretty much does the same wit lois when she knows the secret,they r partners and lettin her in after she knows the secret is sumthin to expect.If anythin he doesn't let her go out in the field wit him anymore this season(Unlike last season when she was always next 2 him)so its not like she's there guidin him all the way.She jus points him in the right direction and lets him do his thing,but its obvious they r a team and I saw nothin wrong wit tonight

Deana

01-18-2007, 09:46 PM

I lost faith in Clark his actions this episodes. I almost want to start a Oliver=The Real Clark Kent theory.

STFanatic

01-18-2007, 09:46 PM

Since Chloe has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that she can be trusted, IMO it was a good choice.

D.M.A.

01-18-2007, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by wallyK
I agree that Chloe found out everything just a little too fast, but given everything going on in the episode, there there was not much the writers could do. They clearly wanted her to be helping the beginning Justice League, so they had to get her up to speed pretty quickly. Strictly speaking, Clark should not have told Chloe that Bart was working for Oliver, but again we have the necessity of very quickly integrating Chloe into the Justice League.

Tonight's story was not about whether Clark is a trustworthy guy, it was about the forming of the Justice League, with Clark Kent intending to eventually join. He saw the value of working with a team. That's why his butt had to be saved, to see that he had friends watching his back.
Well really he didn't tell her that bart was workin for oliver she found that out when she pulled up the outgoin calls.So what was the point of lyin when they both knew he was workin for sumone,plus wit her knowin of Ga now why lie.But he didn't tell her bart was workin wit oliver he actually came to her to find out who bart was workin for

CLSmith

01-18-2007, 09:47 PM

She's now a member of the team!

So Clark was not a ass for telling her!

Go Chlo!

-cs™

ChlarkMe

01-18-2007, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by D.M.A.
I agree and dont see why so many complain about chlark partnership yet luv their friendship.I mean he pretty much does the same wit lois when she knows the secret,they r partners and lettin her in after she knows the secret is sumthin to expect.If anythin he doesn't let her go out in the field wit him anymore this season(Unlike last season when she was always next 2 him)so its not like she's there guidin him all the way.She jus points him in the right direction and lets him do his thing,but its obvious they r a team and I saw nothin wrong wit tonight

I'm a Chlarker and I love the way they flow together and I started the thread, not because what I thought what Clark did was wrong, but because Clark did it so quickly it seemed out of Character. Even pulling her into the whole thing sending her to Oliver seemed out of character as lately he's been trying to keep her out of the trouble. Maybe it was more the way the writers rushed to make sure Chloe was a part of the team than Clark speedy disclosure that made me question the change in him. It seemed like the lead up to it was the comment he made to Chloe in the Talon apartment that secrets never really protected anyone. (may not be exact wording but the feel is there.)

:) :)

jimmyolsenblues

01-18-2007, 10:04 PM

This was a mistake on clark's point.
Imagine the reverse, if ollie had his own watchtower and split the beans to her, Clark would have had a conniption.

Lennys

01-18-2007, 10:09 PM

I liked!

D.M.A.

01-18-2007, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by ChlarkMe
I'm a Chlarker and I love the way they flow together and I started the thread, not because what I thought what Clark did was wrong, but because Clark did it so quickly it seemed out of Character. Even pulling her into the whole thing sending her to Oliver seemed out of character as lately he's been trying to keep her out of the trouble. Maybe it was more the way the writers rushed to make sure Chloe was a part of the team than Clark speedy disclosure that made me question the change in him. It seemed like the lead up to it was the comment he made to Chloe in the Talon apartment that secrets never really protected anyone. (may not be exact wording but the feel is there.)

:) :)
Well the thing is he has tried keepin her out of harm this season more than before,but he had no time to run to oliver and tell him where bart maybe.So he sent chloe to relay the message while which also sets up him gettin caught and the boyz already knowin where to look.I dont think he rushed it,espcially wit their talk last week he seems like he's tired of hidin things from her and was tryin to let her in.Remember her talk wit him in static this has always been the chlark ship since s5,its jus this season clark is takin the blame for everythin and tryin to deal wit it himself.What he realize last week was she's there no matter what even when he's in the wrong and the least he could do was let her in.I saw no prob since he was thinkin of bart first and had no time to tell oliver what was goin on.But thought it was sweet that he seemed upset wit himself for not tellin her sooner,its like he's appreciatin her more and since they r a team it seems fittin that he tells her.What was the harm its not like she pressure him for answers she let him tell when he felt the need.And at the time he was thinkin of bart and I dont blame him I would have done the same.Bart was in trouble chloe could help,and he had no time to go back to oliver place and wait for them when he could go before.He sent her to let them in incase he needed backup cause he could get there faster

xrayvision

01-18-2007, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by chlarklove
Exactly. Even though technically Chloe should have already known about Bart, but whatever.

I loved it. Chloe's line to Oliver was perfect.

"We trust each other, he tells me about everything.. well almost everything.. " (meaning she had to figure out Ollie was GA on her own) :p

I don't care how much they trust each other. How would Chloe like it if Clark told her family's history of mental disease and how the female members get it? How comfortable would they be with her knowing about their group & its missions then? Clark had no right whatsoever opening up his mouth about someone else's secret. He should know this better than anyone. Chloe's know-it-all MO is starting to really piss me off. I liked the humble Chloe of seasons 1-4. I was able to stomach her in most of season 5, until Mercy when she started talking nonsense about stuff that a reporter would never know. They are killing her character is a totally different way than they did with Lana. I really think they should kill her off before they make it worse. Anyone who knows that much would be the #1 target for Lex in his quest to feed his hunger for knowledge.

They should either bring back the humble Chloe or kill her off. She is way too cocky now with all those facial expressions, even making fun of Lois when she wanted to get into journalism. She needs to be knocked off her pedestal and soon (by Lex).

Originally posted by jimmyolsenblues
This was a mistake on clark's point.
Imagine the reverse, if ollie had his own watchtower and split the beans to her, Clark would have had a conniption.

I know. What makes no sense is how Clark protected Ollie's secret from Lois, with Chloe finding out instead. There plan was a failure. Why not instead have told Lois that he's the GA. He knows he can trust her, and she would understand why he has to go away. But nope. Chloe has to know everything. The writers should go back & watch that season 4 episode with Lionel talking to Lex about the stones and how it's not about getting the answers & knowledge, but instead about being humbled by not having the answers. Chloe is becoming like Lex in that regard. She has to know everything, and this is making me lose a lot of respect for her character. The only secret she needs to know is Clark's and the only info she should get is that which those who come to her for help give her (and Clark should not be one of those people anymore). In Hydro, they should have kept her in the dark about what was going on with Clark, Ollie, Jimmy and Lois. She never told Clark about Linda Lake, yet she got to find out what Clark was up to.

boywithbluehanger

01-18-2007, 10:36 PM

I'm ok that Clark told Chloe everyone's secret mostly because they were ok with it lol

I'm just a little upset that there was no Angel of Vengeance seeing how she was directly involved with helping expose and destroy 33.1. Plus she knows of Bart Allen.

chlarklove

01-18-2007, 10:36 PM

PaulNeb

01-18-2007, 11:24 PM

Stop selling Chloe short. She's an ace reporter. She already had figured out that Oliver was Green Arrow. She didn't need Clark to tell her. Rewatch that Chloe/Lois/Clark scene in Hydro again. She's teasing Clark because she knows what happened.

Bart is a little bit different. I would have to rewatch "Run" to see how much Clark had told Chloe about him. The scene in the Planet was so very reminiscent of Bart's saving Jonathan in Run. "Thank, Clark." "It wasn't me."

AC and Victor are fairly easy. Chark needed Chloe's help and the only way to get her past Oliver's defences was to tell her what she needed to know so she could knock them down when they came up. Necessity is the mother of invention - and of disclosing secrets, it seems.

And let's all remember that as far as we know, only THREE people know that Clark is an alien. Martha, Lionel and Chloe. Oliver, Bart, AC and Victor know Clark has powers, but not the whole story. At least not yet.

myankskent

01-18-2007, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by xrayvision
I don't care how much they trust each other. How would Chloe like it if Clark told her family's history of mental disease and how the female members get it? How comfortable would they be with her knowing about their group & its missions then? Clark had no right whatsoever opening up his mouth about someone else's secret. He should know this better than anyone. Chloe's know-it-all MO is starting to really piss me off. I liked the humble Chloe of seasons 1-4. I was able to stomach her in most of season 5, until Mercy when she started talking nonsense about stuff that a reporter would never know. They are killing her character is a totally different way than they did with Lana. I really think they should kill her off before they make it worse. Anyone who knows that much would be the #1 target for Lex in his quest to feed his hunger for knowledge.

They should either bring back the humble Chloe or kill her off. She is way too cocky now with all those facial expressions, even making fun of Lois when she wanted to get into journalism. She needs to be knocked off her pedestal and soon (by Lex).

I applaud you for that one.

STFanatic

01-18-2007, 11:27 PM

Not to mention a few FOTWs know he has powers, and Linda Lake knows if she is still alive.

Ardiem3

01-18-2007, 11:30 PM

Clark can trust Chloe with anything. Do you really think he would have outed some of his best friends if he knew that it would hurt them or him in the long run. Clark is smart on somethings lol : ) Getting over Lana, and following his destiny, now those, are different stories lol.

InLove_with_Chloe

01-18-2007, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by Khyla
CHloe already knew about AC from the episode " Aqua" , and she already knew about Victor from "Cyborg". She also found out about Green Arrow by putting two and two together in last week's episode.
Exactly.
And you could tell Clark was very reluctant to 'out' Bart. He only did it because he was worried about him and needed Chloe's help to save him...

ChlarkMe

01-18-2007, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by Ardiem3
Clark can trust Chloe with anything. Do you really think he would have outed some of his best friends if he knew that it would hurt them or him in the long run. Clark is smart on somethings lol : ) Getting over Lana, and following his destiny, now those, are different stories lol.

Your right, he trusts her more than anyone. I think maybe even more more than he trusts himself.

alienkinfolk

01-18-2007, 11:33 PM

Bart outed himself at the DP when he took it upon himself to save Chloe.
I thought you told your best friend everything about everyone. What are best friends for if you can't share gossip with them.Clark did what anyone else would do with their best friend.

Chiriru

01-18-2007, 11:36 PM

Your right, he trusts her more than anyone. I think maybe even more more than he trusts himself.

Totally. This whole time Ollie's been snarking that Clark is dumbly trying to do it on his own - and in one scene Ollie got to realize that Clarks' not only got his own partner, but a smart one, and one he trusts above everyone else on his team.

Given that SV stated in Unsafe (and again in Hydro) is absolutely the most important thing in any relationship, it says quite a bit about Chlark and Clark's POV in that relationship.

InLove_with_Chloe

01-18-2007, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by Chiriru
Given that SV stated in Unsafe (and again in Hydro) is absolutely the most important thing in any relationship, it says quite a bit about Chlark and Clark's POV in that relationship.
Still, I can't help feeling like he takes her for granted too much...
:(

RJLCyberPunk

01-18-2007, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by Deana
I hated it. Clark disappointed me so much this episode.

If Ollie ran of and told his bestfriend Clark's sercret Clark would most likely cut all ties with him.
That I agree Smallville Clark in many ways is big dumb hypocrite!
This episode was fantastic in many aspects but that is one aspect of him that is definitely not likeable at all!
He has pushed just about everybody away and now he spills everything out to Chloe!

cloisinmyheart

01-18-2007, 11:45 PM

clark is going to have to tell her eventually or she wouldve figured it out on her own

xrayvision

01-18-2007, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by chlarklove
And what purpose would that serve exactly?

The point is, Bart was in trouble, Clark needed (as well as the rest of the team) Chloe's help. So he had to tell her. He didn't tell her in the beginning of the episode did he?

All this did for me was show that Clark is unable to track down those who need saving, which is the #1 thing he must do before becoming Superman in a year from now. It still was not his secret, and he had no right to tell anyone. He knows that Chloe is susceptible to the disease her mother has. If he's OK with her knowing his own secret knowing that one day she can go nuts and be placed into Belle Reve, then that's fine. But deciding the same with someone else's secret is unacceptable.

Did Clark TELL Chloe about Ollie/GA? No, he didn't. He actually specifically KEPT it from her and she figured it out on her own. So maybe some slack should be cut don't you think?

Cut Chloe slack--yes. But TPTB for making an episode where Clark's only role is to protect a secret from getting out to anyone and this not happening by having Chloe find out anyway, no. I don't cut them slack for that.

I'm glad Chloe knows Clark's secret. But she should not know everything in town. I think TPTB are going back to their S5 portrayal of Chloe and are once again regressing Clark's character shown in the earlier S6 episodes from that of a protector to one who once again relies heavily on Chloe.

Nospam

01-18-2007, 11:49 PM

I found Clark's reaction to Chloe dishing that she knew Oliver's secret a little curious. He didn't flip out or act sheepish. I guess they had already discussed it in offscreenville. :lol: Chloe sure laid down enough hints in Hydro.

xrayvision

01-18-2007, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by alienkinfolk
Bart outed himself at the DP when he took it upon himself to save Chloe.
I thought you told your best friend everything about everyone. What are best friends for if you can't share gossip with them.Clark did what anyone else would do with their best friend.

She didn't even see Bart at the DP. She thought it was Clark. If she saw anything, it was a red streak.

I agree that she did know about Victor & AC. But she didn't know about them being on a team formed by Ollie and she didn't know anything about Bart (she couldn't even remember him until Bart reminded her). Knowing about Victor & AC seperately is different than knowing about Ollie's team. She should have been out of the loop on the whole JLA angle. If anything, they should have set it up to have future episodes with playful banter between Clark & Chloe with Chloe suspecting that Clark was a part of the JLA.

Clark trusting Chloe with his secret is 1 thing. But that doesn't mean that people like Ollie, AC, and Victor who have little to no experience in dealing with Chloe should trust her with knowledge of their team's missions. That would be like person A trusting person B's close friend person C just because person C is a good secret keeper of person B, yet person A has no interaction with them. Anyone who puts themselves in this situation would never accept a secret of theirs being told to someone they don't know even if that person is said to be trustworthy.

InLove_with_Chloe

01-18-2007, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Nospam
He didn't flip out or act sheepish. I guess they had already discussed it in offscreenville. :lol: Chloe sure laid down enough hints in Hydro.
What I don't like is that Clark seems a little, well 'slow' lately... Am I the only one who feels this way? I mean, he said he's a smart guy today, but is he? Really? I mean, how long did it take him today to figure out that it actually was Bart running faster than him? Shouldn't he have recognized him right away? Hello?

Nospam

01-19-2007, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by InLove_with_Chloe
What I don't like is that Clark seems a little, well 'slow' lately... Am I the only one who feels this way? I mean, he said he's a smart guy today, but is he? Really? I mean, how long did it take him today to figure out that it actually was Bart running faster than him? Shouldn't he have recognized him right away? Hello?

Well, there are a few Zoners out there and it has been two years since he has seen Bart and the Zoners have been occupying all of his energy.

InLove_with_Chloe

01-19-2007, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Nospam
Well, there are a few Zoners out there and it has been two years since he has seen Bart and the Zoners have been occupying all of his energy.
True. OK, he has the right to be skeptical. Maybe even hesitant...
I was just annoyed that we know way before him who that guy was...

The same about Chloe knowing about GA. Didn't Clark get it in 'Hydro'?!?

That guy is killing me...

xrayvision

01-19-2007, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by myankskent
I applaud you for that one.

Thanks. I'm just fed up with regression. I thought they learned from their mistakes on Clark & Chloe. Clark taking the initiative and protecting Chloe was a standard that was set in S6 and was broken this time. That was a huge step he took towards Superman, and now it's back to the drawing board. As they say, 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

Chiriru

01-19-2007, 12:40 AM

Well, there are a few Zoners out there and it has been two years since he has seen Bart and the Zoners have been occupying all of his energy.

Agreed.

Didn't Clark get it in 'Hydro'?!?

I think he did, which is why he didn't flip out about Chloe in the Talon scene; which I do think was done pretty naturally as Clark had done his best to cover for GA and Chloe had largely kept out of it. And he made it clear the only reason he told Chloe was to try to get her to help him help Bart (which according to the VC's, Chloe knew about him already anyway.)

If one wants to talk about 'regressing' Clark though, for that I firmly blame Ollie. Perfect oppertunity to show Clark keeping in contact with the guys from last year and they failed instead using it to prop Ollie up.

InLove_with_Chloe

01-19-2007, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by Chiriru
If one wants to talk about 'regressing' Clark though, for that I firmly blame Ollie. Perfect oppertunity to show Clark keeping in contact with the guys from last year and they failed instead using it to prop Ollie up.
Interesting...
So, now we blame Ollie for Clark's regression?
I thought the whole purpose of introducing Ollie/GA was to teach Clark to accept his destiny...?
Wow, that guy is really slow...
How many people have tried to teach him that?
And yet, all he wants is to be normal and be with...Lana.
:(

MsSullivan

01-19-2007, 12:53 AM

I loved that he trusts her not only w/his secret but those of others. It was also great to see him only tell her about Bart when Bart was in danger. He knew she would keep the secret & we know she will, so its all good.

batfinx

01-19-2007, 01:12 AM

It was definitely wrong of Clark to out Bart. Once you tell a secret that is not yours to share, then you open the door for anyone to do the exact same thing if they feel the excuse or pressure justifies the betrayal of trust. However I knew Chloe would be given Bart's secret when they gave her Green Arrow's in Hydro. It indicated to me they needed Chloe to do some type of drudge work for the A Team and sure enough that was the case. She was sort of a GPS telephone operator connecting calls and giving driving directions. Maybe they want to move Chloe to the Justice League show if it gets picked up.

j-kent

01-19-2007, 01:14 AM

it's all good because no one woulda been able to command watchtower lol perfectly planned :)

with all the talk about trust and other ppl's secrets i thought that that was pretty irrational too...but oooo well GO TEAM JLA

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 04:34 AM

Of course Chloe should have known about Bart and at the end Bart was very happy that she did know. Why is it important for Clark to keep Bart's secret when she already knew about the rest of them? She figured out Ollie in Hydro. She helped guide the JLA through the building. Face it, Chloe was needed to save Bart's life and the team seemed to like the fact that she knew. Chloe is apart of the team, that's the benefit of knowing Clark's secret. I'm glad Chloe knows Clark's secret and he has someone outside of his parents to go to. Chloe is a very important part of Clark's life. This was the best episode of the year and as usual Chloe was right there where she should be :).

kiariclois

01-19-2007, 05:53 AM

The only thing that I hate about the episode is Clark's decision to tell Chloe about Bart...

analfabeta

01-19-2007, 06:21 AM

With some effort, I could accept the fact Clark told her about the others secrets.
I don't see (and accept) Chloe being part of JL, but I could understand that, in this episode, was needed since she was the one who started the investigation of 33.1.
She was a lot helpfull. I almost becoming a Chlark in those 2 last episodes. Lets see those 2 foward.
Anyway......... but I do agree that her character is going to far. TPTB should tone her. And the idea os Lex teaching her a lesson just pleased me. I miss Chlex interaction.

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 07:27 AM

There was no reason for Chloe not to find out about Bart. When Chloe didn't tell Clark about Lana's pregnancy she was doing the right thing by protecting Lana's privacy. When Clark didn't tell Chloe about the Green Arrow he was doing that because Lois was involved with Oliver. There was no reason not to tell Chloe about Bart. He was helping save Bart's life and there was no protection issues concerning Chloe knowing about Bart because she already knew about AC and Cyborg. This was a very smart move on the writers part and Bart was happy that she knew and so was I :).

Rhoda123

01-19-2007, 07:31 AM

STFanatic

01-19-2007, 07:39 AM

Bart has never been actively protective of his power, in "Run" he zipped in and out of the Talon to get flowers for Chloe in full view of everyone in the place.

Edit:

In "Justice", when Clark & Chloe were in the barn, (The Calente' scene) Chloe was in mid turn when Bart just appeared in front of her and they became reintroduced.
She must have suspected something then anyway.

I_am_LEX

01-19-2007, 07:50 AM

i was gonna say that she already knew about all of them except bart, but thats already been said so no need to. for those who dont think she knew... remember the line "this is something else, he can swim faster than i can" in aqua... and in cyborg, didnt lana tell chloe she hit someone? i'll have to watch that one again, but im pretty sure she knew about him too. and obviously she figured out the green arrow in the last episode with that weird water girl in it. she just didnt know about the "justice league" but it wasn't a big deal, it didnt bother me at all that she knew cuz she's trustworthy. any one like how evil lex was... even better than the superman returns lex if you ask me... MR is more serious and beleivable as this character i think

superpal1

01-19-2007, 07:53 AM

Chloe new about AC and Cyborg already. She only ratted out Bart. Chloe told Oliver that she figured out his fetish for green on her own. In the end, Clark didn't out anybody. Chloe was just surprised that everyone was working together.

chlarkfan333

01-19-2007, 07:56 AM

If Chloe had superpowers, we wouldn't be even having this discussion, I imagine because she would be thought of as a cool addition to the team. As it is, I admit I was surprised that Clark told her about Bart the way he did, but I don't think he was in error. As someone up the thread said, Superman and Lois eventually share such a relationship and right now it is 'Boy Scout' and Chloe who do. Besides, given the situation, I can cut Clark some slack. I am just glad it wasn't a 'secret and lies' situation. Clear contrast to Clana they showed here - repeatedly.

savingpeoplething

01-19-2007, 08:04 AM

I really loved that Chloe knows all the guys and their abilities as well as them knowing that they can trust her with their secrets.
Now, they know that if they need help from The Daily Planet, they know who to go to :)

Nightingale20

01-19-2007, 08:57 AM

I like that she knows, but at the same time I'm concerned that if she knows too much she becomes a target (hope not).

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 09:12 AM

Yep, I really think the team appreciates that now they have a DP connection with someone who has proved her loyality. This will definetely come in handy in the saving people business.

And the Superman/Clark Kent I love, would never be so arrogant to deny that even superheros need help from their friends even if it is from us mere mortals. Very much like how Clark and Lois work together after he reveals his secret to her in the future. Chloe now has that role in SV. Clark is learning that having to rely on other people whether "superfriends" or people without any special abilities is OK. Clark is finally gaining some wisdom in his journey to become Supes. I don't think it has been all regression this season. He still feels a personal responsibility to bring down all the zoners. For me hopefully, He will see that if he does need a little assistance from Chloe or any other team members [*Jaime awaits JLA members return in season finale , please, oh please*] he doesn't have to go it alone when it comes to the saving the world. Heros really do need to be saved sometimes too. If Clark learns this lesson then he really is maturing and taking another step to becoming Supes. I don't find that regression.

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Ilovebeinglost
He figured of she has kept his secret she'll keep the others and besides that how else could they have pulled this off without her knowing.
and yes it was only Bart she didn't know about

Regardless of his trust for Chloe, it wasnt his secret to tell, that was so UNSUPERMAN like its disgusting

Originally posted by savingpeoplething
I really loved that Chloe knows all the guys and their abilities as well as them knowing that they can trust her with their secrets.
Now, they know that if they need help from The Daily Planet, they know who to go to :)

The JL never needed the DP´s help.

This is stupid, Im sorry but this is not about Chloe, its about Clark telling secrets that arent his and betraying peoples trust, no matter how you want to look at it, if Bart outed Clark to someone, anyone, Clark would be pissed.

Horrible horrible writing

mfarhaniqbal33

01-19-2007, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Ireallylikethisshow
I know, that was stupid of Clark.

So was, running off to Luthorcorp without talking to them first... he kind of messes things up. *scolds Clark* Guyz i think u seem to be forgetting Chloe knws abouth him......if she can keep his damn secret, he pretty sure knew she would keep someone else secret remind u Lana told chloe everything too....and thing bout u said If oliver had done it.......First of all if i m not wrong Ollie isnt stupid enough to talk about this to his friends as we have seen it in Reunion, apparently both episodes were written by the same guy so why didnt Ollie say to his friend oh wait before u guyz get blown up or stabbed by knives into ur chest lemme tell u i have a friend who can run faster than a speeding bullet shoot lasers thru his eyes n has super hearing......guyz that was pathetic Chloe is right now the most trusted character in Clark's life.........i think that should mean something n where we all knw dat Chloe is not staying in Smallville for long.....this may be her last season before the writers make her push daisies as well wid Johnthan Kent

freefall

01-19-2007, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
Regardless of his trust for Chloe, it wasnt his secret to tell, that was so UNSUPERMAN like its disgusting

Why would Clark himself go out of his way to help Oliver trick Lois so that she won't find about GA's secret, even though she also had already suspected it big time? What's the difference here? Why not he didn't make the same effort with Chloe about Bart? Why simply tell her just like that, no reservations at all?

I've really hoped that Chloe's character (or the way she's written or whatever, I hate to go through that again) won't ruin this episode for me. But she did, and this is just too much. Yet another proof that they think they'd always have to elevate Chloe at the expense of Clark to portray how very much "trustworthy" and "amazing" she is. Plot device all over again.

This is not about Chloe would have already put two and two together or Bart himself is okay with it, this is about Clark telling other people's secrets that isn't his place to tell at all. After that blow up in Hydro, I'm really disappointed that he hasn't learnt his lesson at all.

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by mfarhaniqbal33
Guyz i think u seem to be forgetting Chloe knws abouth him......if she can keep his damn secret, he pretty sure knew she would keep someone else secret remind

that is completely besides the point, IT WAS NOT HIS SECRET!

Lets say, that Ollie told Lois he was GA, and she kept his secret as if her life depended on it, would it be ok if Ollie told Lois Clark´s secret??? When you answer your self that, youll see my point.

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Kal-ed

This is stupid, Im sorry but this is not about Chloe, its about Clark telling secrets that arent his and betraying peoples trust, no matter how you want to look at it, if Bart outed Clark to someone, anyone, Clark would be pissed.

Horrible horrible writing [/B]

I agree that Clark would definetly be pissed if Bart had told someone his secret. But if his life was in danger I think that sort of changes the playing field.
In regards to the writing, I think that SDK actually showed some continuity in Clark's decision to tell Chloe about Bart. At least we are given an explaination this time as to why Clark decides it is so important to tell Chloe about the only one member of the JL that she doesn't know about.
Clark's line about keeping secrets sometimes only hurts the ones you care about. Clark probally wrestled with this when he tried to decide if he should tell Chloe about Bart. On one hand, I(Clark) would be pissed if someone spelled the beans about me....on the other hand, my friend's life is in danger! I don't want to gamble with it if someone can help. Clark decides correctly (for a change :lol: ) that NOT keeping a secret in this incidence is the right decision. Something that would have helped me stomach all the Clana angst if he had realized this earlier in regards to Lana.

It showed maturity. I was happy how SDK wrote the scene. We were given insight to Clark's thought process...something we rarely are treated to by the writing staff :\ . I feel it was something that showed Clark was learning a lesson on his journey in becoming Supes. Things are not always so black and white. Heros have to make some tough choices.

kiariclois

01-19-2007, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
Regardless of his trust for Chloe, it wasnt his secret to tell, that was so UNSUPERMAN like its disgusting

Yep... that's what I thought... Oh... BDA all over again... One minute he was smart, and then back again being the BDA

Originally posted by Kal-ed
The JL never needed the DP´s help.

This is stupid, Im sorry but this is not about Chloe, its about Clark telling secrets that arent his and betraying peoples trust, no matter how you want to look at it, if Bart outed Clark to someone, anyone, Clark would be pissed.

Horrible horrible writing
Ditto

Originally posted by seacrystal
If we want to go by the argument that Chloe would have already put two and two together anyway, Bart himself is not protective of his power, Bart himself is okay with it etc, then why would Clark himself go out of his way to help Oliver trick Lois so that she won't find about GA's secret, even though she also had already suspected it big time? What's the difference here? Why not he didn't make the same effort with Chloe about Bart? Why simply tell her just like that, no reservations at all?

I've really hoped that Chloe's character (or the way she's written or whatever, I hate to go through that again) won't ruin this episode for me. But she did. I love her, but I'm sorry this is just too much. Yet another proof that they think they'd always have to elevate Chloe at the expense of Clark to portray how very much "trustworthy" and "amazing" she is.

After that blow up in Hydro, about not telling secrets that isn't your place to tell, I'm really disappointed that he hasn't learnt his lesson at all.

I just couldn't understand why he told her... Because he trust her? that's not good enough... Moreover, the secret's not his... I'm really dissapointed with this one issue... the rest was superb...

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by jaime,oburg
I agree that Clark would definetly be pissed if Bart had told someone his secret. But if his life was in danger I think that sort of changes the playing field.
In regards to the writing, I think that SDK actually showed some continuity in Clark's decision to tell Chloe about Bart. At least we are given an explaination this time as to why Clark decides it is so important to tell Chloe about the only one member of the JL that she doesn't know about.
Clark's line about keeping secrets sometimes only hurts the ones you care about. Clark probally wrestled with this when he tried to decide if he should tell Chloe about Bart. On one hand, I(Clark) would be pissed if someone spelled the beans about me....on the other hand, my friend's life is in danger! I don't want to gamble with it if someone can help. Clark decides correctly (for a change :lol: ) that NOT keeping a secret in this incidence is the right decision. Something that would have helped me stomach all the Clana angst if he had realized this earlier in regards to Lana.

It showed maturity. I was happy how SDK wrote the scene. We were given insight to Clark's thought process...something we rarely are treated to by the writing staff :\ . I feel it was something that showed Clark was learning a lesson on his journey in becoming Supes. Things are not always so black and white. Heros have to make some tough choices.

How Clark shoud have done:

"Chloe, listen, I have a friend in trouble, I need your help, but listen, he is a superheroe, and you know I cant betray his trust and reveal his identity, so please Chloe, just help me."

(What Chloe, being a good friend and understanding the importance of secret identities as she did in Arrow)

"No problem Clark, Ill help you, no questions asked"

Nightingale20

01-19-2007, 10:01 AM

STFanatic

01-19-2007, 10:04 AM

Was he (Bart) really trying to keep it secret? In "Red" Bart told the criminals he was selling stolen items "I can move really fast", and they had seen him do it more than once, thus they sneak up on him to knock him out.

To protect Bart's secret, Clark should have let him die.

kiariclois

01-19-2007, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
How Clark shoud have done:

"Chloe, listen, I have a friend in trouble, I need your help, but listen, he is a superheroe, and you know I cant betray his trust and reveal his identity, so please Chloe, just help me."

(What Chloe, being a good friend and understanding the importance of secret identities as she did in Arrow)

"No problem Clark, Ill help you, no questions asked"

No question asked... yeah, I would've love that... Yes, definitely... But we can't change things that already happen though... :( :( *sigh*

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 10:07 AM

That a totally different scenario Kal-ed. Ollie wouldn't tell Lois because him and Clark have agreed to protect their secrets. Clark has to live around Lois and being from another planet is much different then shooting green arrows. It makes perfect sense for the writers to include Chloe. It made perfect sense for her to know about Bart so she could help them save Bart and blow up the warehouse. If Bart would have asked Clark not to tell anyone his secret that's different. Bart didn't care and he zooms in and out all the time. He zoomed in and out on Chloe the first time he was in Smallville and he zoomed in front of her this time. Bart see's this as a way to impress Chloe and he's glad she knows. What this comes down to is some don't like Chloe when she outshined Lana and now she outshines Lois. She has to because she knows Clark's secret. He can tell Chloe things he can't even tell his mother. You have to expect someone from another planet who can't tell anybody has to be happy that he has one person that he can trust without hesitation. Lois will be the new Lana Lang now Oliver is gone. The writers will have to knock her out in every episode so Clark can use his powers. This makes the Chloe character even more important because that gets old after awhile. Go Chloe(watchtower)!!!!

Also, Bart doesn't care who knows, he works for civilians.

myankskent

01-19-2007, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
that is completely besides the point, IT WAS NOT HIS SECRET!

Lets say, that Ollie told Lois he was GA, and she kept his secret as if her life depended on it, would it be ok if Ollie told Lois Clark´s secret??? When you answer your self that, youll see my point.

Thank you. This episode really pissed me off from Clark's standpoint. And what bothers me even more is that they have to make Clark look like a moron just so they can elevate Chloe's character and make her the oracle who knows about everyone, something that I couldn't stand to begin with. I really have to wonder what in the hell TPTB were thinking by having Clark tell Chloe about Bart.

freefall

01-19-2007, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by jaime,oburg
Clark's line about keeping secrets sometimes only hurts the ones you care about. Clark probally wrestled with this when he tried to decide if he should tell Chloe about Bart. On one hand, I(Clark) would be pissed if someone spelled the beans about me....on the other hand, my friend's life is in danger! I don't want to gamble with it if someone can help. Clark decides correctly (for a change :lol: ) that NOT keeping a secret in this incidence is the right decision.

I really can't follow Clark's line of reasoning at all. He went out of his way to help Oliver protect his secret, for what? Would it really hurt Lois if she knew? Then he turned around and spilled the beans just because he thought his friend is in danger and needed her help? Why didn't he go to the other guys first, who already know about Bart's secret? He also could just have done the same and asked for her help without telling Bart's secret.

Originally posted by polomontana
What this comes down to is some don't like Chloe when she outshined Lana and now she outshines Lois. She has to because she knows Clark's secret.

I think everyone who disagree with Clark's decision to tell Chloe here has made clear it has absolutely nothing to do about Chloe outshining anyone or whatever, it's about Chloe outshining everyone at the expense of Clark, who we have expected more of him from this episode.

myankskent

01-19-2007, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Polomontana

Also, Bart doesn't care who knows, he works for civilians.

How do you know that Bart doesn't care? Is that up to Clark to make that decision for him? Unless we see a scene where Bart tells Clark specifically that it would be ok for him to tell his secret to anyone that Clark trusts, Clark shouldn't have said anything to Chloe. There was no reason why Clark had to tell Chloe there, she would've understood if he left out details in order to protect other people, or at least she should've understood.

I would love to know if Clark would be ok with Bart telling someone that he trusts Clark's secret.

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by STFanatic
Was he (Bart) really trying to keep it secret? In "Red" Bart told the criminals he was selling stolen items "I can move really fast", and they had seen him do it more than once, thus they sneak up on him to knock him out.

To protect Bart's secret, Clark should have let him die.

Not that it should have made any difference if Bart cared or not when it came to Clark telling Chloe, I think we were given plenty of evidence that Bart loves that Chloe knows now that he is part of the superpowered persuasion. He probally feels it may help his chances in getting with Chloelicious.... Sorry, that is the last time I will use that term...well maybe, don't hold me to it :D

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by seacrystal
I really can't follow Clark's line of reasoning at all. He went out of his way to help Oliver protect his secret, for what? Would it really hurt Lois if she knew? Then he turned around and spilled the beans just because he thought his friend is in danger and needed her help? Why didn't he go to the other guys first, who already know about Bart's secret?

He didn't go to the other guys first because he trusts Chloe more than them. If you remember in the episode, he was suspicious of Oliver and Bart until he found out what happened. So of course you go to the person you trust the most and that'sa Chloe. Like I said, it just makes sense to tell Chloe. Nobody has given a reason why telling Chloe endangered Bart. That is what makes no sense.

kiariclois

01-19-2007, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Polomontana
He didn't go to the other guys first because he trusts Chloe more than them. If you remember in the episode, he was suspicious of Oliver and Bart until he found out what happened. So of course you go to the person you trust the most and that'sa Chloe. Like I said, it just makes sense to tell Chloe. Nobody has given a reason why telling Chloe endangered Bart. That is what makes no sense.

We all know he trust Chloe... But still, he should have NOT tell her Bart's secret... It's not his secret to tell... Like Kal-ed said, Clark could just ask for her help without telling the secret...

myankskent

01-19-2007, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Polomontana
Nobody has given a reason why telling Chloe endangered Bart. That is what makes no sense.

It's the principle of the thing. It's how the writers decided to make Clark's character look in this episode by telling Chloe that secret. Of course Chloe wouldn't rat out Bart, but it still doesn't change the fact that Clark let someone in on a secret that wasn't his to tell.

freefall

01-19-2007, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Polomontana
He didn't go to the other guys first because he trusts Chloe more than them.

It's very disheartening then. I thought at least Oliver has that honour of being one of the person that Clark would trust with his life as well. Like I've said, it's just a plot device to show how Chloe is the most trustworthy person of all and no one could compare to her, to the extent of having Clark telling about someone else's secret.

Again, I hope people just don't automatically assume we are just wanting to bash Chloe's character. In fact, she's one of my favourites. But this is why we keep saying that many times on this show, she's simply a plot device and it's becoming more and more irritating.

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by kiariclois
We all know he trust Chloe... But still, he should have NOT tell her Bart's secret... It's not his secret to tell... Like Kal-ed said, Clark could just ask for her help without telling the secret...

That doesn't make any sense. Clark is going into an unknown situation and he tells the person he trusts the most about Bart and how Ollie has the other guys working for him. This makes sense. Him telling Chloe about Bart helped save his life and Clark was doing like any smart person that's going into an unknown situation. You tell somebody you trust and somebody that helps Clark when he's up against Lex or meteor freaks. Someone who puts her life in danger like with Linda Lake to protect Clark's secret. People, your not making sense. He trusts Chloe more than anyone in the world outside of his mother, so of course he's gonna tell Chloe to protect himself before he enters an unknown situation.

meteor_phreak

01-19-2007, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by kiariclois
We all know he trust Chloe... But still, he should have NOT tell her Bart's secret... It's not his secret to tell... Like Kal-ed said, Clark could just ask for her help without telling the secret...

how would this work? beyond the whole, I'll help no questions. what next? she would have figured it out. and bart was DYING.

and clark didn't just blurt for the fun of it, or he would have done it at the barn scene. he tried, he just new he needed help. and he couldn't go to ollie. before they traced him, they didn't even know he was involved.

and about this whole, clark should be able to do it himself thing...he's NOT superman yet, he doesn't work at the DP, heck, we haven't even seen a computer in his house except his mom's laptop which he probably doesn't have access to.

freefall

01-19-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by Polomontana
He trusts Chloe more than anyone in the world outside of his mother...

Thank you for proving my point "Chloe is a plot device" as completely valid. The woman Clark himself has declared as "my heart and soul" couldn't even compete with Chloe.

STFanatic

01-19-2007, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by meteor_phreak
................., heck, we haven't even seen a computer in his house except his mom's laptop which he probably doesn't have access to.

"Cause she caught him surfing all the pie websites.

:D

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 10:43 AM

Chloe is not a plot device, she's his equal now and she's an important character to the show. She's not there to just help Clark, she's a reporter who who went from someone who couldn't keep a secret to a trusted friend. She has to be excited that she knows Clark's secret and he trusts her. This is not another guy who was affected by the meteor showe, he's from another planet. Chloe is more than a plot device, she's a well developed character and the writers know it.

kiariclois

01-19-2007, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by meteor_phreak
she would have figured it out.

If she figured it out by herself, then there's no problem... It's just so unlike Clark to tell other people secret...

meggy

01-19-2007, 10:48 AM

WHY ARE PPL SOOOOO UPSET??? Martha knows Bart's secret too, and nobody seems to be getting on her case about it! Bart speeds around in front of Martha.... (and she's not a stupid woman..if the boy cleans up the table in 3 seconds, then obviously he is different!)...practically showing his secret around...and it's suddenly Clark's fault and Clark is disappointing???!!

Also, Clark didn't rat out that Bart worked for Ollie, they both found out at the same time when the phone records came up. I think what we need to remember is that the secrets thing is always a struggle for Clark....when do you keep the secret, and when will it be for a greater good to tell someone the secret?...there is no clear black/white, right/wrong answer because it all depends on the situation...decisions like these are made on the spur of the moment in most cases....

Now everyone has their opinion, and is free to express it wholeheartedly..that is what makes a great discussion....but i don't agree with the argument that ppl make that this whole episode was about elevating Chloe over Clark. How exactly did she make Clark look bad here???? I don't think she was elevated anymore than the Green Arrow or Cyborg. In fact, besides Clark saving Bart, the Green Arrow pretty much saved the day in this one folks....

and perhaps that was the point. The point of this episode was to showcase the other heroes that Clark has in his life....so Cyborg, Aqua, Impulse and GA were also the stars..and none of them made Clark look bad. Let's rewind a bit....

1)When Clark came for computer help at the Talon, CLARK was the one to TELL Chloe what to look for on the comp. HE was the one who said to check the phone records and outgoing calls. She didnt miraculously think of it on her own. HE told her what to look for...she just has the hacker skills...

2)In the DP when Clark was going to save Bart and asked Chloe to give the info to Oliver, SHE was the one who hesitated about going in (perhaps because she felt out of place), and CLARK asked her to do that because he had to get Bart. Chloe didn't say "I want to be all up in the league"

3) No matter how much pimping GA got, in the end, CLARK was still the leader, because Ollie had to wait for him to give the ok before they blew up the building

4) In the last barn scene, they all wanted Clark to join the team because they know how much of an asset he would be to them..they all know who the real leader of that league could be...

5) As for Chloe being elevated above Clark...what wrong did she do? Her purpose was to be their eyes on the outside. If she didn't do it, then who would? Clark? we know the fanbase would be freakin mad if he wasn't inside 33.1 with the others....Lionel? Martha?...sure...I'm sure none of that was Chloe's technology either...all those gadgets were probably Ollie's...

now if Chloe were all up inside 33.2 then that would just be foolish. I can also understand people being upset when Clark got caught with the greenK...but that's no one's fault but his own..and he WAS trying to look through the doors, but couldn't...

Clark did well in this episode..he wanted to join the league, but still has unfinished Zoner business to take care of....he's accepting responsibility, and taking care of his matters...to me, that shows growth. Every actor did well in this episode..i think all of them were at their best...even lolliepop was awesome

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 10:50 AM

With the line of reasoning here, Clark shouldn't tell Chloe about any meteor freak he runs into. He should keep there secrets from big bad Chloe LOL. I think Chloe envy is showing. Nobody has said why Clark shouldn't have told Chloe when he's going into an unknown situation. It makes no sense not to tell the person you trust with your life everything to protect yourself.

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by seacrystal
I think everyone who disagree with Clark's decision to tell Chloe here has made clear it has absolutely nothing to do about Chloe outshining anyone or whatever, it's about Chloe outshining everyone at the expense of Clark, who we have expected more of him from this episode. [/B]

I really don't see Chloe outshining Clark. (OK, except for the computer stuff lol). Ollie himself tells her that he sees her as a "side kick". I understand lot of people feel that Clark is made to look stupid so Chloe can appear smart. I, myself, just don't see it. Clark has shown to make bad decisons on his own, time and time again. It's so true, when it is said what Clark does has nothing to do with Chloe. I don't feel that Clark has been made to look like a moron to build up Chloe. Chloe is a smart cookie all by herself. No one can take her accomlishments OR screw ups away from her. Just like Clark has made all of the BDA decison's on his own. JMHO

mfarhaniqbal33

01-19-2007, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
that is completely besides the point, IT WAS NOT HIS SECRET!

Lets say, that Ollie told Lois he was GA, and she kept his secret as if her life depended on it, would it be ok if Ollie told Lois Clark´s secret??? When you answer your self that, youll see my point. i understand wat u r saying but u need to realize he was in no mood for hiding as he needed to locate Bart so he did wat he could.........seriously guyz think bout it, if he told Chloe that there is a league that is defending us wats wrong wid dat........doesnt Justice League becomes national later on!!!!!!! That was the whole point......WatchTower, Satellite, Gears, come on people look at it, it was the moment where i thought i was watching the Justice League cartoon where the whole world praises Justice League for their contribution to help the public

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 10:54 AM

Clark knew Ollie for half a season

Clark knew Bart for a few days

Clark knew Cyborg for a few days

Clark knew AC for a few days

Clark knows Chloe and has trusted her with his life for a few years. Who do you think he trusts? :)

freefall

01-19-2007, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Polomontana
Chloe is not a plot device, she's his equal now...

Clark is NOWHERE near her equal. Chloe is way beyond superior to him now. She is a damn intelligent, beautiful and perfect young woman in every way. She has taken over Pete's, Jonathan's, his guy friends' roles. Now even Martha too, if we go by the reasoning he trusts her more than his own mother.

I don't want get nasty, but I'll become really mad is someone goes off and accusing again that I'm bitter and just want to bash her character senselessly or is angry that she outshines everyone. I want to make clear that I'm majorly pissed off about this plot-devicey-Chloe is because it's at the expense of Clark, making him look foolish, unappreciative of other equally important people in his life, and ultimately un-Superman everytime they put him together with Chloe.

I don't blame Chloe at all, as usual I blame TPTB. I almost feel like it's becoming an obsession of Chloe like we've already seen with their obsession of Lana.

kiariclois

01-19-2007, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by meggy
WHY ARE PPL SOOOOO UPSET??? Martha knows Bart's secret too, and nobody seems to be getting on her case about it! Bart speeds around in front of Martha.... (and she's not a stupid woman..if the boy cleans up the table in 3 seconds, then obviously he is different!)...practically showing his secret around...and it's suddenly Clark's fault and Clark is disappointing???!!

Erm... I think Martha knew from the very beginning... I doubt that Jonathan didn't tell her about Bart...

FotW

01-19-2007, 10:57 AM

I don't think Clark had the right to tell everyone's secret. I mean he hides his own from everyone, and he wouldn't want Chloe to tell someone like Jimmy, for example. Plus, last episode Chloe was upset by the fact that she's burdened by everyone's big important secrets - so why give her a bunch more to keep?

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 11:05 AM

I will repeat what I said:

Clark knew Ollie for half a season

Clark knew Bart for a few days

Clark knew Cyborg for a few days

Clark knew AC for a few days

Clark knows Chloe and has trusted her with his life for a few years. Who do you think he trusts?

When your going into an unknown situation you confide in the person you trusts the mosts. It just makes sense that Clark will tell Chloe to protect himself.

If Clark didn't tell Chloe these things, how would the other guys know where he went? Clark would still be in that warehouse being crippled by kryptonite if Chloe didn't go to Ollie and tell them where he went. She then guided them through and helped save Bart.

myankskent

01-19-2007, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by seacrystal
Clark is NOWHERE near her equal. Chloe is way beyond superior to him now. She is a damn intelligent, beautiful and perfect young woman in every way. She has taken over Pete's, Jonathan's, his guy friends' roles. Now even Martha too, if we go by the reasoning he trusts her more than his own mother.

I don't want get nasty, but I'll become really mad is someone goes off and accusing again that I'm bitter and just want to bash her character senselessly or is angry that she outshines everyone. I want to make clear that I'm majorly pissed off about this plot-devicey-Chloe is because it's at the expense of Clark, making him look foolish, unappreciative of other equally important people in his life, and ultimately un-Superman everytime they put him together with Chloe.

I don't blame Chloe at all, as usual I blame TPTB. I almost feel like it's becoming an obsession of Chloe like we've already seen with their obsession of Lana.

Totally agree. The problem that I have is that TPTB basically make Chloe into whatever they want her to be in every episode. If they want her to hack, she'll hack. If they want her to write articles, she'll write articles. If they want her to teach Clark how to use his power a la Jonathan Kent, ie. Sneeze, she'll do that. If they want her to be the Justice League's oracle, no problem, Chloe to the rescue. If they want her to translate kryptonian symbols, no problems. If they want her to scan the entire globe using satellite images and find craters all found on the same day, she can do that. If they want her to push Clark toward his destiny or save Clark at the fortress, again, they'll do that. How about sticking with a couple of things that Chloe can do rather than making her look like she can do any single thing that is asked of her. She can probably specialize in about 20 different professions based on everything that she has done on this show, and in the process of elevating Chloe, Clark looks like a moron. That's how I interpret this episode. TPTB had to get Chloe into the Justice League so she could be the oracle, so naturally, Clark has to let her in by giving up Bart's secret and sending her to Oliver.

Ticket2theMoon

01-19-2007, 11:12 AM

Clark isn't dumb, he's rash. He cares about people, all people, and feels the weight of responsibility to protect them so strongly that he makes impulsive decisions in his haste to do the right thing. Notice how when he rescues someone, say, from a car, he doesn't just jerk the door open, he rips it off the hinges and flinges it away. That's sheer, raw urgency. He hasn't learned control yet. That's why he storms in to confront Lex when a more tactful method would work better. Chloe is a balancer, she stays levelheaded through just about anything. He'll learn that from her. Good grief, he must have SOME flaws or he'd be this flat, totally unrelatable character. Even the Man of Steel can't handle life all on his own.

kiariclois

01-19-2007, 11:15 AM

Ginx

01-19-2007, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by myankskent
Totally agree. The problem that I have is that TPTB basically make Chloe into whatever they want her to be in every episode. If they want her to hack, she'll hack. If they want her to write articles, she'll write articles. If they want her to teach Clark how to use his power a la Jonathan Kent, ie. Sneeze, she'll do that. If they want her to be the Justice League's oracle, no problem, Chloe to the rescue. If they want her to translate kryptonian symbols, no problems. If they want her to scan the entire globe using satellite images and find craters all found on the same day, she can do that. If they want her to push Clark toward his destiny or save Clark at the fortress, again, they'll do that. How about sticking with a couple of things that Chloe can do rather than making her look like she can do any single thing that is asked of her. She can probably specialize in about 20 different professions based on everything that she has done on this show, and in the process of elevating Chloe, Clark looks like a moron. That's how I interpret this episode. TPTB had to get Chloe into the Justice League so she could be the oracle, so naturally, Clark has to let her in by giving up Bart's secret and sending her to Oliver.

LOL - I know you're making good points but reading it all in one blow comes out kinda funny.

I agree with what you said - except about the Oracle thing. Just because she knows a lot and might be working with the JL doesn't make her Oracle - it does make her a good asset and WatchTower.

And while I want to believe that Ollie and the JL don't need the help of Chloe or the DP - it was Chloe and her research that led them to Bart.

It irked me at first that Clark just burnt Bart like he did but in the end I guess there's a reason for everything and yes Clark is rash.....I'm hoping that one of the times it hits him in the face as being the wrong move will wake him up.......still waiting for that.....(why did he just burst in that door with the K in it.....come on!!!!)

freefall

01-19-2007, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Ticket2theMoon
He'll learn that from her. Good grief, he must have SOME flaws or he'd be this flat, totally unrelatable character. Even the Man of Steel can't handle life all on his own.

Has he REALLY learnt anything from Chloe? When Chloe took the initiative to bring him to the courthouse in Fade to "ignite that journalistic spark again", what did he say? My reporter days are over when I left the Torch.

When Chloe rightfully slammed him for being a coward in Exile, did he stand up for himself and proved her wrong? No, he continued being a coward until Jonathan himself came to get him home.

When Chloe again rightfully told him off in Hydro, that it isn't your place to tell about anyone's secret, he hugged her and then did the very same mistake in Justice.

When Chloe becomes his voice of reason in Hidden (one of my favourite episodes with Chloe) and told Clark he's seriously kidding himself if he still expected his relationship with Lana to work without telling his secret to her. What did he do? He continued lying and lying to Lana, culminating in that horrible, horrible breakup. No matter how much I dislike her, Lana didn't deserve any of that from him. None at all.

No, Clark hasn't learnt anything from Chloe at all. And what makes it even more frustrating, all those times when it's very appropriate for him to follow Chloe's advices and learn things from her, he basically says "No thanks" instead.

kiariclois

01-19-2007, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by seacrystal
Has he REALLY learnt anything from Chloe? When Chloe took the initiative to bring him to the courthouse in Fade to "ignite that journalistic spark again", what did he say? My reporter days are over when I left the Torch.

When Chloe rightfully slammed him for being a coward in Exile, did he stand up for himself and proved her wrong? No, he continued being a coward until Jonathan himself came to get him home.

When Chloe again rightfully told him off in Hydro, that it isn't your place to tell about anyone's secret, he hugged her and then did the very same mistake in Justice.

When Chloe becomes his voice of reason in Hidden (one of my favourite episodes with Chloe) and told Clark he's seriously kidding himself if he still expected his relationship with Lana to work without telling his secret to her. What did he do? He continued lying and lying to Lana, culminating in that horrible, horrible breakup. No matter how much I dislike her, Lana didn't deserve any of that from him. None at all.

No, Clark hasn't learnt anything from Chloe at all. And what makes it even more frustrating, all those times when it's very appropriate for him to follow Chloe's advices and learn things from her, he basically says "No thanks" instead.

Yeah, I could see your point... ;)

myankskent

01-19-2007, 11:36 AM

Excellent post seacrystal, I can see that you are on your game today.

Ticket2theMoon

01-19-2007, 11:38 AM

But he doesn't just forget those things. He thinks he has all the answers right now, but that's not going to last forever.

Ginx

01-19-2007, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Ticket2theMoon
But he doesn't just forget those things. He thinks he has all the answers right now, but that's not going to last forever.

I don't think he has any answers. I think he's confused and that's why he keeps seeking out guidance. But maybe - with this episode, Clark will start to have more confidence that he can make good choices and follow-through*. Knowing that he has more than just Chloe to depend on. He's got a network of people who know his secret - so he can hopefully use that to become who he's meant to be.

And yeah - I hope he has learned something from Chloe - other than that he can go to her for help and that she will always be there for him - the day is going to come when that won't be the case.

*That being said - I don't think it was smart of Clark to out Bart, run off without backup, and go into a room that is made of Lead. I think he needs to use a bit more common sense and tact.

Ticket2theMoon

01-19-2007, 11:46 AM

*****SPOILER ALERT*****

Originally posted by Ginx
And yeah - I hope he has learned something from Chloe - other than that he can go to her for help and that she will always be there for him - the day is going to come when that won't be the case.

I hope that's not next week.

meggy

01-19-2007, 11:46 AM

myankskent... i understand what you're saying about her skills....and i supppose, like kiariclois said, it could be why her character was created....

remember, they have restrictions on all the mythos characters..Clark, lex, Lois, Lana..i suppose even Martha...but since Chloe was their creation, they can do whatever they want with her...i guess some can argue that they go overboard and she can "speacialize in 20 different professions" (lol)...but so far, I just see her as having computer/hacking skills and beeing a reporter....remember the satellite images were from Ollie because his satellite was the only one working on Dark Thursday, and Clark asked him for that access...

and remember too that she had been working on 33.1 for years and years, and honestly though, she didn't give them much info except for that place where Bart was held....i think it was Ollie that downloaded the info that said that Lex had 33.1 all over the globe...

and i agree with you Ticket2themoon..Clark isn't dumb...he is just rash..and his urgent desire to help ppl sometimes overshadows his need to PLAN before he breaks and enters....but somehow, that is what will make him the superhero that all others will follow and guide their morals with.....even Ollie admitted it in the past, that he is nowhere near Clark's league...in terms of the physical, but also the moral compass....

as for whether Clark actually learns anything from Chloe..well, first, I say that she isn't the only one that teaches him...he learns from all the ppl around him...every experience in his life has made him learn something (at least we hope so! LOL)......

and i think he hesitates so much, or TPTB make it seem like he isn't learning or practicing fast enough because they want to extend his development. Now i know we've been waiting for his development for 6 years...but TPTB want a 7th season from us remember?...so they will stretch it out...they'll tease us with superbreath (and then forget it), flying (in Crimson?)...but leave us hanging so we tune in for season 7. so maybe then we'll get all the development that we want from Clark

freefall

01-19-2007, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Ticket2theMoon
But he doesn't just forget those things. He thinks he has all the answers right now, but that's not going to last forever.

Better get that big dumb Kryptonian brain of his on roll then, and let him think REALLY HARD about what Chloe and other people in his life has taught him. Fast. I've finished venting about him in this episode. We'll see how our future Superman fares in Labyrinth. The very least he should achieve (and the very least that TPTB should have some respect for) is for him to finally embrace the notion that his powers are a gift, and they are a means for him to go out and help other people actively. No more whining about who he is. That's the impression I got from the spoilers anyway.

hanemg

01-19-2007, 12:36 PM

I think I have to go with the avatar neutral people in this thread. Clark really didn’t have a right to out Bart or the JL. He could have gotten the exact same information from Chloe in the exact same amount of time by simply telling her that he thought his friend Bart might be in some trouble and could she trace his cell phone. That would have ended with the same result of him discovering the Oliver Queen connection without his having to tell Chloe about Bart or the JL. Afterall, she knew individually from the past about AC and Victor, but didn’t know they were in town or that they were working for Oliver.

Quite frankly, the only reason I saw for Chloe to be included at all was that someone had to recognize on the plant blueprints that there was a processing room and make the leap of logic that Kryptonite was involved and Clark would be in danger. Kryptonite was needed because without it the JL would have been useless as Clark could have done it all himself and Oliver would not otherwise have known about Kryptonite unless Chloe told him. Other than that she served no purpose in the episode whatsoever.

After all, Oliver had the assault on 33.1 already planned so Chloe’s intervention wasn’t really needed there as Victor took care of all of the hacking needed internally. So I guess Chloe had to know everyone’s secrets in order to have a plausible reason to be in place to point out to Oliver the processing room and the danger it posed.

Chloe is not a plot device, she's his equal now and she's an important character to the show.
I hate to disagree with you, but Chloe is a plot device. And a particular type of one too. I think the actual term is “Deus ex machine” which is defined as:
A Latin phrase that is used to describe an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot (e.g., having the protagonist wake up and realize it was all a dream, or an angel suddenly appearing to solve problems). The phrase has been extended to refer to any resolution to a story which does not pay due regard to the story's internal logic and is so unlikely that it challenges suspension of disbelief, allowing the author to conclude the story with an unlikely, though more palatable, ending. In modern terms the deus ex machina has also come to describe a being, object or event that suddenly appears and solves a seemingly insoluble difficulty (e. g. the cavalry arriving).

Hmmm….a magic computer that can break into any database, highly placed sources that we never see yet will risk life and livelihood to help even a high school student working on a school paper, access to databases that often aren’t even kept on databases (European mob resumes anyone?)…or how about an “internal memo” placed on top of a stack of papers that just happens to give the location of a secret lab at the exact moment the hero needs to locate it?

Does anyone else think this sounds familiar?

ronniegrahame06

01-19-2007, 12:40 PM

What was it Chloe said in season 2 about Clark?

"For a guy so obsessed with keeping secrets he sure can't keep his mouth shut."

:lol:

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Polomontana
That a totally different scenario Kal-ed. Ollie wouldn't tell Lois because him and Clark have agreed to protect their secrets. Clark has to live around Lois and being from another planet is much different then shooting green arrows. It makes perfect sense for the writers to include Chloe. It made perfect sense for her to know about Bart so she could help them save Bart and blow up the warehouse. If Bart would have asked Clark not to tell anyone his secret that's different. Bart didn't care and he zooms in and out all the time. He zoomed in and out on Chloe the first time he was in Smallville and he zoomed in front of her this time. Bart see's this as a way to impress Chloe and he's glad she knows. What this comes down to is some don't like Chloe when she outshined Lana and now she outshines Lois. She has to because she knows Clark's secret. He can tell Chloe things he can't even tell his mother. You have to expect someone from another planet who can't tell anybody has to be happy that he has one person that he can trust without hesitation. Lois will be the new Lana Lang now Oliver is gone. The writers will have to knock her out in every episode so Clark can use his powers. This makes the Chloe character even more important because that gets old after awhile. Go Chloe(watchtower)!!!!

Also, Bart doesn't care who knows, he works for civilians.

I dont remember Lana telling Chloe not to tell Clark, and still Chloe kept it a secret. Why????? CAUSE IT WASNT HER SECRET.

Whether Bart cares or doesnt care that people know his secret, still doesnt justify Clark giving it away, again IT WAS NOT CLARK´S SECRET.

any resolution to a story which does not pay due regard to the story's internal logic and is so unlikely that it challenges suspension of disbelief

Pretty much sums it up about Chloe being a plot device, but hey even AM admited to it in her latest interview.

fiorscal

01-19-2007, 01:03 PM

MMM, NOt cool, sorry but she shoould've kept her mouth shut. The other guys didn't tell her their secret, if she knew it wasn't her roght to tell it.

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by meggy
WHY ARE PPL SOOOOO UPSET??? Martha knows Bart's secret too, and nobody seems to be

Again its NOT ABOUT KNOWING OR NOT KNOWING Bart´s secret, I know Chloe wouldnt spill out his secret, Its like Myanskent said ITS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING.

just so we are clear NO ONE IS UPSET CHLOE KNOWS, The people that are upset are because he spillet (unnecesarily) a secret that wasnt his to tell, period.

Funny how Chlark lovers point out Clark´s trust in Chloe, but that is not even the issue, the main problem is Clark and his stupid decitions that contradict his character, he knows the importance of keeping identities and powers hiden yet he chose, by his own acord to out Bart, regardless of who he told, he SHOULDNT HAVE TOLD ANYONE

AlwaysAround

01-19-2007, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by hanemg
I think I have to go with the avatar neutral people in this thread. Clark really didn’t have a right to out Bart or the JL. He could have gotten the exact same information from Chloe in the exact same amount of time by simply telling her that he thought his friend Bart might be in some trouble and could she trace his cell phone. That would have ended with the same result of him discovering the Oliver Queen connection without his having to tell Chloe about Bart or the JL. Afterall, she knew individually from the past about AC and Victor, but didn’t know they were in town or that they were working for Oliver.

Quite frankly, the only reason I saw for Chloe to be included at all was that someone had to recognize on the plant blueprints that there was a processing room and make the leap of logic that Kryptonite was involved and Clark would be in danger. Kryptonite was needed because without it the JL would have been useless as Clark could have done it all himself and Oliver would not otherwise have known about Kryptonite unless Chloe told him. Other than that she served no purpose in the episode whatsoever.

After all, Oliver had the assault on 33.1 already planned so Chloe’s intervention wasn’t really needed there as Victor took care of all of the hacking needed internally. So I guess Chloe had to know everyone’s secrets in order to have a plausible reason to be in place to point out to Oliver the processing room and the danger it posed.

I hate to disagree with you, but Chloe is a plot device. And a particular type of one too. I think the actual term is “Deus ex machine” which is defined as:

Hmmm….a magic computer that can break into any database, highly placed sources that we never see yet will risk life and livelihood to help even a high school student working on a school paper, access to databases that often aren’t even kept on databases (European mob resumes anyone?)…or how about an “internal memo” placed on top of a stack of papers that just happens to give the location of a secret lab at the exact moment the hero needs to locate it?

Does anyone else think this sounds familiar?

You just summed up the very reason that Chloe is even on the show. In simpler terms: the writers are still too lazy to have Clark do any investigative reporting (or even thinking) on his own.
They'll have to wake up eventually if they want Clark to ever do anything on his own without someone holding his hand and walking him through everything. :rolleyes:

The Chloe character is getting so rediculous. Now she knows how to use GPS tracking and yet again break into confidential files?:rolleyes: Meanwhile Clark just stands there with a huge Duh Uh mentality as usual. Yep that's a Superman alright.
So pathetic. Oliver called Chloe a sidekick in this episode and it was an attempt at using a funny poke at the character. I didn't find it funny one bit. I found it to be very true and reflective upon just how sad Clark and his character has become and how lazy the writers have gotten. :\

myankskent

01-19-2007, 01:28 PM

margroks

01-19-2007, 01:33 PM

Chloe knew already about AC and Cyborg and had figured out who GA really was for sure last week although, I think she had to have suspected previously. It is well to note that Lois was so easily deluded last week and never gave a further thought to whether she'd been snookered. Doesn't it seem odd that Ollie disappears when things happen? I mean, Chloe figured out that Clark was different years ago even before she saw him in action and later learned the full truth.

So the only new info here was about Bart and Clark felt saving his life was more important than keeping a secret and I think it was the right call. It also underscores that Clark implicitly trusts Chloe and the others now do to, on Clark's word. Interesting, too, that Ollie refused to consider trusting Lois the same way.

So here we have two girls, both reporters although it's a super-stretch to call Lois one; still they do both write, one girl as an increasingly serious investigative reporter for the world's greatest newspaper and the other who writes fiction under the guise of reporting for a tabloid rag. Who do the heroes trust when the chips are down?

Dannyblue1

01-19-2007, 01:47 PM

I think it's amusing how, every single episode, certain folks find something wrong with Chloe, or with her friendship with Clark. Every single darn week.

Let's put the cards on the table. There are folks who are fans of other female characters (who shall remain nameless) who hate any situation that allows Chloe to shine in a way that their favorite characters don't. Whether that's in the part she actually plays in the episode (she's had a pretty big role the last two eps), or in her relationship with Clark (the friendship, the trust he doesn't share with either of the other two female characters) doesn't matter, these specific individuals hate it, and will do anything to tear it down.

Which is why I don't buy these, "Chloe has to get away from Clark so he can grow," arguments. Because I don't think, for one second, they'd be saying these things if their favorite character were filling the role Chloe is presently.

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
I think it's amusing how, every single episode, certain folks find something wrong with Chloe, or with her friendship with Clark. Every single darn week.

Let's put the cards on the table. There are folks who are fans of other female characters (who shall remain nameless) who hate any situation that allows Chloe to shine in a way that their favorite characters don't. Whether that's in the part she actually plays in the episode (she's had a pretty big role the last two eps), or in her relationship with Clark (the friendship, the trust he doesn't share with either of the other two female characters) doesn't matter, these specific individuals hate it, and will do anything to tear it down.

Which is why I don't buy these, "Chloe has to get away from Clark so he can grow," arguments. Because I don't think, for one second, they'd be saying these things if their favorite character were filling the role Chloe is presently.

The gospel truth my fellow SV fan.

STFanatic

01-19-2007, 02:43 PM

^ Agreed to both above :)
I do not care who is sucking face with who (within reason).
I just want a action filled adventure.
:)

PKII

01-19-2007, 02:44 PM

Deana

01-19-2007, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
Again its NOT ABOUT KNOWING OR NOT KNOWING Bart´s secret, I know Chloe wouldnt spill out his secret, Its like Myanskent said ITS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING.

just so we are clear NO ONE IS UPSET CHLOE KNOWS, The people that are upset are because he spillet (unnecesarily) a secret that wasnt his to tell, period.

Funny how Chlark lovers point out Clark´s trust in Chloe, but that is not even the issue, the main problem is Clark and his stupid decitions that contradict his character, he knows the importance of keeping identities and powers hiden yet he chose, by his own acord to out Bart, regardless of who he told, he SHOULDNT HAVE TOLD ANYONE Quoted for the real truth.

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 02:57 PM

Ginx

01-19-2007, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by AlwaysAround

The Chloe character is getting so rediculous. Now she knows how to use GPS tracking and yet again break into confidential files?:rolleyes: Meanwhile Clark just stands there with a huge Duh Uh mentality as usual. Yep that's a Superman alright.
So pathetic. Oliver called Chloe a sidekick in this episode and it was an attempt at using a funny poke at the character. I didn't find it funny one bit. I found it to be very true and reflective upon just how sad Clark and his character has become and how lazy the writers have gotten. :\

Ollie calling a Chloe a sidekick to me was more along the lines - as not funny - but more like 'hey you're a sidekick and don't get carried away with your role here.....you're not the hero' which was kinda down-grade for Chloe.

I think it's great that they have a female character that is so strong - but at times they seem to discredit her with making her being able to hack etc etc etc that is just a tad far-fetched. Sure it's great to be a strong female character but it's also kinda good to keep it within the bounds of reality a bit (I mean how many skills can one person really have that they are top notch at...) - Clark is still the main character isn't he? :\

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Deana
Quoted for the real truth.

The real truth is always open for anyones' personal interpretation. I've enjoyed reading everyone's opinions. There really isn't a "true" one. Thanks ChlarkMe for starting such an great thread. It is turning into the best thread of the Justice episode. Peace :)

Dannyblue1

01-19-2007, 03:13 PM

And I don't buy this whole, "If Chloe is good at stuff, that diminishes Clark," argument. It's a big, honkin' crock.

Genre television is filled with shows where the hero has friends who are better at certain things than they are. Heck, that concept is a staple of genre television. Heroe's who have the support of friends who have something to offer (skills, knowledge, whatever) are better than those who try to go it alone.

Wasn't that, in fact, the whole point of "Justice?" Working as a team, bringing all of their skills together, is what makes the as-yet-unnamed Justice League great.

I personally don't think Clark is diminished by working with people who might know more than he does. But, if you think that's the problem, the solution is to make Clark's character step up to the plate, not get rid of intelligent characters so Clark won't look bad in comparison.

Deana

01-19-2007, 03:18 PM

Dannyblue1

01-19-2007, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Deana
And you would be wrong. LOL, it's funny how the fact is ignored that Clark didn't have to blab Bart's secret to save him.

That's the whole point. I would be just as pissed if he blabbed the secret to Lois. When something this wrong happens, I don't turn on "favorite character" blinders. It's a disservice to Clark.

I've been in fandom for a long time, and can get a feeling for when someone is arguing one thing, but their motive is something else. (And the motive is often 'ship related.)

As for Clark "blabbing" the secret, it seems to me that some people are choosing to ignore the circumstances (which have been outlined by others) under which he did it.

Deana

01-19-2007, 03:41 PM

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 03:48 PM

It is matter of opinion that Clark did or didn't have to "blab" about Bart to Chloe. There isn't a right or wrong opinion about what one feels the fact is. It's all what one's take on the situation is about. For me, it wasn't about should Clark have or shouldn't he have told blah blah blah... The point that I posted back I few pages earlier was that I got out something a little different in that scene then others may have.

Clark struggling with the whole secret issue in itself. For years we all know what he has come to expect of other people when it comes to keeping his secret and now he was faced with a decison. Should I still keep a secret when the outcome may harm someone. Whether Clark could have gone about it another way is a matter of opinion and I certainly can see that maybe there was another way around it where Clark didn't have to reveal Bart's identity.

But I feel the bigger picture was that for once Clark was now on the other end of having to keep a secret and it wasn't such a clear cut decison on what to do. Chloe's trustfulness, would Bart even mind if Clark told her or did Clark have a right to tell the secret was all a secondary issue to me. The big picture was now the shoe is on the other foot, how did it feel Clark. Not so easy to keep a secret when you really feel that a person is in danger. Clark summed up his dilema perfectly when he said sometimes keeping secrets only hurts the ones you care about. I believe he truely felt something bad was going to happen to Bart, he knew Chloe could help out and she proved herself loyal. Whether he should have or not will be debated for at least another 10 pages probally........
But I felt that was a real lesson for Clark with the whole keeping secrets and honesty issues that have plagued him (and the viewer lol) for all these years. I think he came out of the experience a little wiser, more mature.

meggy

01-19-2007, 03:49 PM

sheesh...ok..so some ppl think it was wrong to tell the secret...some don't...it's all opinion..everyone is entitled...

so according to some, Chloe is this unrealistc, "Deus ex machine" character...so she has no purpose! kill her! burn her at the stake! get rid of her so Clark can progress! she makes him look bad..what purpose does she have on the show...death death death to her!.....ok......

but what purpose does everyone have on the show??? everyone must have one:

what's Lana's purpose on the show?...to get the boys to want her? be a trophy wife?..eventually become Clark's friend?..be Clark's HS love?...should we get rid of her too because the writers are not doing justice to her? (in the eyes of some)

what's Lex's purpose? to be the villian? to be Lana's sissy boy? To show how Lionel is the real bastard of the show? (in the eyes of some). Should we get rid of him because one week he is a villian, and the next he's a love-sick idiot?

Lionel: should we get rid of him because he makes Lex look bad sometimes?

Lois?..to get Clark's interest? to be his new best friend? to get into journalism???...and lord, what about Jimmy???

the "purpose" of anyone in the show is up to interpretation.

Maybe she is the plot device..maybe not...but at least for me, things did tie in well together in Justice...at least there WAS a plot! And frankly, no one needs to be removed or changed for Clark to grow...maybe the writers should just write a script to MAKE him grow...i thought he did well this episode...not because he doesn't have good computer skills means he's not good at anything....

each of the characters have "their thing" that they do...don't bring anyone down...bring Clark up...and that's for TPTB to do...not any character

and as far as i know, ppl always thought Chloe was the capable sidekick...she said that herself in Mortal or Hidden..one of them....i didnt think it was meant to bring her down..nor should it be

Clark is still the main character and will always be...EVERYTHING ties into him somehow...

jmf1977

01-19-2007, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by AlwaysAround
You just summed up the very reason that Chloe is even on the show. In simpler terms: the writers are still too lazy to have Clark do any investigative reporting (or even thinking) on his own.
They'll have to wake up eventually if they want Clark to ever do anything on his own without someone holding his hand and walking him through everything. :rolleyes:

The Chloe character is getting so rediculous. Now she knows how to use GPS tracking and yet again break into confidential files?:rolleyes: Meanwhile Clark just stands there with a huge Duh Uh mentality as usual. Yep that's a Superman alright.
So pathetic. Oliver called Chloe a sidekick in this episode and it was an attempt at using a funny poke at the character. I didn't find it funny one bit. I found it to be very true and reflective upon just how sad Clark and his character has become and how lazy the writers have gotten. :\

I agree with both posts. I laughed out loud when Clark asked her if she could GPS Bart's cell phone number. Then I laughed even harder when she was able to connect it to Ollie's company. Clark, as usual, just stands there. The Chloe character is beyond ridiculous ... it is off the charts on the believable scale.

The writers use Chloe as a plot device. Speaking of laughing out loud...did anyone else find it strange that Oliver Queen, billionaire owner of a company with sophisticated satellites in space, could not actually narrow down Bart's location on his own! Clark had to bring Chloe into the mix and she was able to do it from her DP computer in a span of less than an hour or so it seemed. Please. I just cringe that she is so involved in all of this. This episode would have been so much better if it focused on the future JL, Clark and the Luthors. Instead the writers missed a golden opportunity to make this episode a true water shed moment in Clark Kent's life, and turned it into SuperChloe saves the day.

Finally, I did find it out of character for Clark to blab everyone's secret (Bart, Victor and AC) to Chloe. There is no reason she needed to know any of that info and that Oliver is behind it.

LoisL

01-19-2007, 03:54 PM

Re: thread's topic, I felt weird about Clark telling Chloe everything. By the end of the show, I felt Chloe was more a member of the JLA than Clark. Clark just seemed really off this episode which I find disappointing since normally I'm anti the BDA name calling.

meggy

01-19-2007, 03:56 PM

SuperChloe did not save the day! Super!Ollie did!...with all his arrows and gadgets, and bombs! Super!Ollie even saved Clark!

LoisL

01-19-2007, 03:58 PM

^ ^ ^

In the DC universe, Ollie IS a superhero. ;)

they should change the Supergirl character in the comics to Chloe. I don't like the present Linda Lee very much anyway. :p

edit: but it's all good that Chloe can help. I just wish there was a dramatic moment where Clark really helped too.

Deana

01-19-2007, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by LoisL
Re: thread's topic, I felt weird about Clark telling Chloe everything. By the end of the show, I felt Chloe was more a member of the JLA than Clark. Clark just seemed really off this episode which I find disappointing since normally I'm anti the BDA name calling. That's the truth. Chloe should've had her victory walk at the end.

Clark was a huge disappointment this episode.

Nightingale20

01-19-2007, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by meggy
SuperChloe did not save the day! Super!Ollie did!...with all his arrows and gadgets, and bombs! Super!Ollie even saved Clark!

I don't think there was any SuperChloe. It was all about Ollie for the most part calling all the shots.

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
I've been in fandom for a long time, and can get a feeling for when someone is arguing one thing, but their motive is something else. (And the motive is often 'ship related.)

Read rule number 10

As for Clark "blabbing" the secret, it seems to me that some people are choosing to ignore the circumstances (which have been outlined by others) under which he did it.

YOU seem to be choosing to focust things about Chloe, and as oposed to what some may think, not everything is about Chloe.

Chloe was mentioned in this discussion, because she is indirectly involved in the concerning issue, how ever it was never about her, I have my biffs with the use of Chloe but that is a diferent topic, and there are threads for that.

The topic at hand is simple CLARK SPILLED SOMEONE ELSE´S SECRET UNCESESARILY (if you have tivo or taped the epi, watch it and see how Clark could have easily told Chloe that he needed a favour no questions asked (she would understand, she already showed us she understood the code of honer amongs superheroes in Arrow).

But lets forget it was Chloe, that is not important, what´s important is tha Clark gave away a secret that wasnt his to give, whether it was Lois, Chloe, Pete, aunt Nell, etc. IT DOESNT MATTER WHOM RECEIVED THE INFO IT DOESNT EVEN MATTER WHAT THAT INFO WAS, the problem is WHO AND WHY THE OTHER PERSON (Clark) GAVE THAT INFO THAT WASNT HIS TO GIVE, AND WHAT DOES THAT TELL US ABOUT HIS CHARACTER.

In the comics, even after married to Lois, Clark never revealed any secret Identity, sure Lois knows many of them, some she figured out by herself, some got to know her trusted her with their identities, some she accidentally found out about, but NEVER DID CLARK IN THE COMICS TELL LOIS NOR ANYONE ABOUT ANY OF HIS SUPERHERO FRIENDS, NOT EVEN UNDER LIFE AND DEATH SITUATIONS.

freefall

01-19-2007, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by LoisL

edit: but it's all good that Chloe can help. I just wish there was a dramatic moment where Clark really helped too.

I read all those posts saying that he's dumb for rushing into that room, but I think that's extremely heroic of him. Just what I'd expect of Superman. He rushes in simply because he can't bear to let someone die, just like he did in Perry (another one of his most heroic saves IMO, because he did it without his own powers).

Also, the way he made sure that everyone has gotten out before the lab blew up is wonderful. First I thought it's another very OOC moment for Clark to know that he'd go along with the plan, but they've made a clear distinction about that.

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by jaime,oburg
It is matter of opinion that Clark did or didn't have to "blab" about Bart to Chloe. There isn't a right or wrong opinion about what one feels the fact is. It's all what one's take on the situation is about. For me, it wasn't about should Clark have or shouldn't he have told blah blah blah... The point that I posted back I few pages earlier was that I got out something a little different in that scene then others may have.

You only need ot understand the LACK OF INTEGRITY Clark showed by UNECESARILY outing Bart with Chloe, I dont know if you have the means to watch it all over again, but if he wanted to he could have goten the same result without telling her, instead he chose to reveal someone elses secret, one that is almost as important as his.

You should read Identity Crisis series, its not long its only 7 comic books and in it its a detailed story OF HOW IMPORTANT A HEROES SECRET IDENTITY IS.

Again, Chloe will surely keep Bart´s secret, that is not up for discussion, she has kept Clark´s secret. But its the principle of SPILLING THINGS THAT ARE NOT YOURS TO SPILL and things that are compromising, Im sure nothing negative will come to Bart from Chloe knowing, but Clark SHOULD KNOW BETTER and leave it to Bart to decide if he wants Chloe to know or not.

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 04:08 PM

Every character with the exception of Clark can be argued to be nothing more than a plot device. Except maybe my man Lex. ;)

chlarkfan333

01-19-2007, 04:11 PM

I don't see how Chloe is any different from Willow/Giles in Buffy or Cordelia/the Brit (whose name escapes me) in Angel. That's the meaning of functioning as a team where different people have different strengths. I would rather have a character like Chloe on the show than Lana or Lois, the former who drags the show down and the latter whose arc is unrelated to Clark's (the central character).

As for whether or not Clark should have told Chloe about Bart is a clearly arguable. Were it not for the extenuating circumstances, I would say no. However, such was not the case in Justice. Now, one may piss and moan that Clark should have figured it all out on his own (something I already disagree with), but since he apparently couldn't, I can cut him some slack, as I said in my previous post.

Were this to occur between Superman and Lois, I suspect no one would be complaining because it's natural, if not expected, for couples to share everything. This is however, not Lois, but is Chloe. They are not a couple. So, the crux of the matter seems to rest with whom he is divulging this information to and the person's relationship to him. If Clark were to tell his parents, would people be so vehement in their objections? I think not. Again, it boils down to whom he's spilling the beans. Now, if he and Chloe are so close and trust each other unquestionably, I see no harm in him telling her when it became necessary. Besides, Chloe and the JLA and Clark were all involved in the same thing - 33.1, so it's not like Clark went to her out of the blue about something that was unrelated to her.

Deana

01-19-2007, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
Read rule number 10

YOU seem to be choosing to focust things about Chloe, and as oposed to what some may think, not everything is about Chloe.

Chloe was mentioned in this discussion, because she is indirectly involved in the concerning issue, how ever it was never about her, I have my biffs with the use of Chloe but that is a diferent topic, and there are threads for that.

The topic at hand is simple CLARK SPILLED SOMEONE ELSE´S SECRET UNCESESARILY (if you have tivo or taped the epi, watch it and see how Clark could have easily told Chloe that he needed a favour no questions asked (she would understand, she already showed us she understood the code of honer amongs superheroes in Arrow).

But lets forget it was Chloe, that is not important, what´s important is tha Clark gave away a secret that wasnt his to give, whether it was Lois, Chloe, Pete, aunt Nell, etc. IT DOESNT MATTER WHOM RECEIVED THE INFO IT DOESNT EVEN MATTER WHAT THAT INFO WAS, the problem is WHO AND WHY THE OTHER PERSON (Clark) GAVE THAT INFO THAT WASNT HIS TO GIVE, AND WHAT DOES THAT TELL US ABOUT HIS CHARACTER.

In the comics, even after married to Lois, Clark never revealed any secret Identity, sure Lois knows many of them, some she figured out by herself, some got to know her trusted her with their identities, some she accidentally found out about, but NEVER DID CLARK IN THE COMICS TELL LOIS NOR ANYONE ABOUT ANY OF HIS SUPERHERO FRIENDS, NOT EVEN UNDER LIFE AND DEATH SITUATIONS.
Read this and believe. It's the act of telling the secret is the sin. Not who he tells it to.

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
You only need ot understand the LACK OF INTEGRITY Clark showed by UNECESARILY outing Bart with Chloe, I dont know if you have the means to watch it all over again, but if he wanted to he could have goten the same result without telling her, instead he chose to reveal someone elses secret, one that is almost as important as his.

You should read Identity Crisis series, its not long its only 7 comic books and in it its a detailed story OF HOW IMPORTANT A HEROES SECRET IDENTITY IS.

Again, Chloe will surely keep Bart´s secret, that is not up for discussion, she has kept Clark´s secret. But its the principle of SPILLING THINGS THAT ARE NOT YOURS TO SPILL and things that are compromising, Im sure nothing negative will come to Bart from Chloe knowing, but Clark SHOULD KNOW BETTER and leave it to Bart to decide if he wants Chloe to know or not.

I certainly understand the Superhero code of ethics and how important it is Kal-ed. I agree. I just think that SDK did a good job at showing Clark WAS having an ethical crisis with the whole how important it is to keep secrets. We rarely get an line from a character or any explaination from the writers as to how the character came to the decison of their actions. Whether the viewer agrees as to how the character should react to that sitaution i realize will be different from viewer to viewer.

I felt that SDK tried at least to show continuity with Clark's reasoning.

myankskent

01-19-2007, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by seacrystal
I read all those posts saying that he's dumb for rushing into that room, but I think that's extremely heroic of him. Just what I'd expect of Superman. He rushes in simply because he can't bear to let someone die, just like he did in Perry (another one of his most heroic saves IMO, because he did it without his own powers).

The issue that I have with him rushing in is the difference between Chloe and Clark in this case. Clark, being totally clueless, rushes into a lead room after not realizing that refined meteor rocks could be found in there and Chloe, looking at a schematic of the building, was able to put it together. That sequence was terrible, IMO, to have Chloe say that Clark is in trouble and right on cue, next scene, Clark walks into a room and collapses. And Clark has been to these types of buildings before and has faced kryptonite.

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by jaime,oburg
Every character with the exception of Clark can be argued to be nothing more than a plot device. Except maybe my man Lex. ;)

Not really, I dont think Lois, Martha, Pete or Lionel have ever adquired a previously unknown skill or exponencially increased a skill they already possed and save the day.

Chloe being a plot device and for Plot exposition is not new thats why its hard to indentify whe she is being used as such, since its basically all she does the diference can be hard to tell, so for an example of what plot device is:

Jimmy in Static having an amazing and unrealistic knowledge of frequencies and stuff. If AA hadnt been up for that epi, Chloe probably would have developed a unique hability of frequencies, good thing Jimmy was thereh :D

freefall

01-19-2007, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
The issue that I have with him rushing in is the difference between Chloe and Clark in this case. Clark, being totally clueless, rushes into a lead room after not realizing that refined meteor rocks could be found in there and Chloe, looking at a schematic of the building, was able to put it together. That sequence as terrible, IMO, to have Chloe say that Clark is in trouble and right on cue, next scene, Clark walks into a room and collapses. And Clark has been to these types of buildings before and has faced kryptonite.

Now you've effectively killed one of my favourite scenes of the episode :(

Just kidding. But seriously, now looking at the Chloe angle once again... *sigh*

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
The issue that I have with him rushing in is the difference between Chloe and Clark in this case. Clark, being totally clueless, rushes into a lead room after not realizing that refined meteor rocks could be found in there and Chloe, looking at a schematic of the building, was able to put it together. That sequence as terrible, IMO, to have Chloe say that Clark is in trouble and right on cue, next scene, Clark walks into a room and collapses. And Clark has been to these types of buildings before and has faced kryptonite.

You are right, but you know our farmboy is still in the learning process myankskent.

STFanatic

01-19-2007, 04:27 PM

Maybe Chloe was affected by Kryptonite and gained powers of her own, we may soon find out if that is a fact. (see spoilers section).

jaime,oburg

01-19-2007, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
Not really, I dont think Lois, Martha, Pete or Lionel have ever adquired a previously unknown skill or exponencially increased a skill they already possed and save the day.

Chloe being a plot device and for Plot exposition is not new thats why its hard to indentify whe she is being used as such, since its basically all she does the diference can be hard to tell, so for an example of what plot device is:

Jimmy in Static having an amazing and unrealistic knowledge of frequencies and stuff. If AA hadnt been up for that epi, Chloe probably would have developed a unique hability of frequencies, good thing Jimmy was thereh :D

OK, OK I'll give ya Lois too.:lol: But I don't think that a character has to posess an exponencially increased skill to qualify as plot device. Ma & Pa Kent's salt of the earth advice to Clark needed in the given situation or Lionel's good man/bad man routine... don't underestimate Lionel's manipulating skills. They are plot device worthyness (if that is even a word! :lol: )

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by jaime,oburg
You are right, but you know our farmboy is still in the learning process myankskent.

A very very slow process it seems :p

Anyhow, just so Chlarkers dont jump on me, let me clear something up firstI dont mind Chloe shining, or outshining other characters. but what I do mind, is when it makes Clark look bad in the process.

In the kryptonite scene, Clark looked stupid and Chloe as a geniuos and an Ubber genius compared to the BDA, the problem is that by canon we know Clark has a superior intellect to most humans, hey maybe Chloe is super smart, I dont mind, but Clark should be if not above her at least at her level, but we are yet to see him figure something out without Chloe to tell him.

Its not about making Chloe shine or not, its about AT THE EXPENSE OF WHAT is Chloe going to shine, I dont mind if she shines on her own, but it is a negative impact on Clark that sometimes to make Chloe shine Clark is made to look stupid, like in Sneeze, it was basic silogisms, that sneezing is a very similar action as blowing hard, yet he seemed unable to grasp the "complexity" of instead of sneezing he just needed to blow harder.

STFanatic

01-19-2007, 04:40 PM

Lana went from cheerleader to highly sucessful coffeeshop owner & college student.

Martha jumped from housewife to struggling coffee shop owner to State Senator.

Lois went from house bum to new car owner on a minimum wage muffin peddler salary. She must have gotten some awesome tips.

LoisL

01-19-2007, 04:43 PM

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by jaime,oburg
OK, OK I'll give ya Lois too.:lol: But I don't think that a character has to posess an exponencially increased skill to qualify as plot device. Ma & Pa Kent's salt of the earth advice to Clark needed in the given situation or Lionel's good man/bad man routine... don't underestimate Lionel's manipulating skills. They are plot device worthyness (if that is even a word! :lol: )

I think its a word... I think:confused: :lol:

Well I come to the rescue of Lionel, being a plot device is one thing and being part of the plot is a diferent thing, Lionel specially in earlier seasons created arcs all on his own.

Now he is a plot mover, but not much more, although he still delivers some awsome scenes.

myankskent

01-19-2007, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
A very very slow process it seems :p

Anyhow, just so Chlarkers dont jump on me, let me clear something up firstI dont mind Chloe shining, or outshining other characters. but what I do mind, is when it makes Clark look bad in the process.

In the kryptonite scene, Clark looked stupid and Chloe as a geniuos and an Ubber genius compared to the BDA, the problem is that by canon we know Clark has a superior intellect to most humans, hey maybe Chloe is super smart, I dont mind, but Clark should be if not above her at least at her level, but we are yet to see him figure something out without Chloe to tell him.

Its not about making Chloe shine or not, its about AT THE EXPENSE OF WHAT is Chloe going to shine, I dont mind if she shines on her own, but it is a negative impact on Clark that sometimes to make Chloe shine Clark is made to look stupid, like in Sneeze, it was basic silogisms, that sneezing is a very similar action as blowing hard, yet he seemed unable to grasp the "complexity" of instead of sneezing he just needed to blow harder.

Exactly, couldn't have said it any better myself. I didn't mind Chloe in the earlier seasons because she didn't know the truth about Clark so Clark was always one step ahead of her. Now that she knows the truth, they've had Clark rely on Chloe for far too many things, and yes, that sneezing/blowing scenario in Sneeze was absolutely atrocious, probably one of the worst Clark moments, even though it was meant to be funny. Even in Justice, if it weren't for Chloe, the Justice League wouldn't even have found Bart. That's four members of the Justice League and not one of them was smart enough to realize where he was, they needed Chloe for that. Four guys all hit a brick wall.

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by STFanatic
Lois went from house bum to new car owner on a minimum wage muffin peddler salary. She must have gotten some awesome tips.

Its a shame they go to unrealistic facts just to have some sponsor pay them a buck for showing their car within the story, they did the same thing to CHloe in Wither, they even had the subliminal msg in the radio while Chloe and Jimmy where macking in her car. Its not bad enough we have to see comercials in between but now inside the show, its pathetic.

Although the general could have given her the car, or she sold her mustang, If Im not mistaken it was a 67 which is high priced hot rod.

Originally posted by myankskent
Exactly, couldn't have said it any better myself. I didn't mind Chloe in the earlier seasons because she didn't know the truth about Clark so Clark was always one step ahead of her. Now that she knows the truth, they've had Clark rely on Chloe for far too many things, and yes, that sneezing/blowing scenario in Sneeze was absolutely atrocious, probably one of the worst Clark moments, even though it was meant to be funny. Even in Justice, if it weren't for Chloe, the Justice League wouldn't even have found Bart. That's four members of the Justice League and not one of them was smart enough to realize where he was, they needed Chloe for that. Four guys all hit a brick wall.

Yep, I mean, sure she could have provided more insight on level 33 since its been sort of her arc, but cmon, leave the rest to the heroes, imagine if instead of Batman saving Gotham we had Rachel saving Batman. We have to give our heroes their due lightspot.

Muse25

01-19-2007, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
A very very slow process it seems :p

Anyhow, just so Chlarkers dont jump on me, let me clear something up firstI dont mind Chloe shining, or outshining other characters. but what I do mind, is when it makes Clark look bad in the process.

In the kryptonite scene, Clark looked stupid and Chloe as a geniuos and an Ubber genius compared to the BDA, the problem is that by canon we know Clark has a superior intellect to most humans, hey maybe Chloe is super smart, I dont mind, but Clark should be if not above her at least at her level, but we are yet to see him figure something out without Chloe to tell him.

Its not about making Chloe shine or not, its about AT THE EXPENSE OF WHAT is Chloe going to shine, I dont mind if she shines on her own, but it is a negative impact on Clark that sometimes to make Chloe shine Clark is made to look stupid, like in Sneeze, it was basic silogisms, that sneezing is a very similar action as blowing hard, yet he seemed unable to grasp the "complexity" of instead of sneezing he just needed to blow harder.

Actually I tend to agree (I am a Chlarker). It's not fair that Clark still on some level just prances in places without thinking. I love that Chloe helps him out and helps him sometimes puts things together for him but the biggest problem is that Clark just doesn't think. I don't like that Clark, high intellectual being, cannot get his synapses to work. Chloe isn't going to be there forever to help him and Clark can be smart but it hurts that he won't try. I don't know maybe he assumes Chloe will always be there to do his thinking for him. *shrug*

meggy

01-19-2007, 04:57 PM

yeah..i hear what everyone is saying...many valid points are being made...you guys are great :)

i think SV fans make some of the BEST debators out there...should we all go into politics?????? :)

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Muse25
Actually I tend to agree (I am a Chlarker). It's not fair that Clark still on some level just prances in places without thinking. I love that Chloe helps him out and helps him sometimes puts things together for him but the biggest problem is that Clark just doesn't think. I don't like that Clark, high intellectual being, cannot get his synapses to work. Chloe isn't going to be there forever to help him and Clark can be smart but it hurts that he won't try. I don't know maybe he assumes Chloe will always be there to do his thinking for him. *shrug*

Do you remember back in the early seasons, when Clark and Chloe investigated together, that was fun, the looked up for things in the internet (together) no hacking into supereduper firewalled databases, and they also had a lot of field investigation. But going back to the computer, I remember they BOTH read what ever info was on screen and started brain storming, coming up with the answeres TOGETHER, in those scene Chloe looked like a smart and intuitive reporter, but so did Clark, now Clark just stands next to Chloe waiting to get an answer.

wolverine316

01-19-2007, 06:25 PM

Although it was a good episode Clark had no business telling SuperChloe about Bart's secret.

Rachel B

01-19-2007, 06:30 PM

Superman has always been brawn over brain. Now I must admit that as Superman Clark uses his intellect alot more than the SV univese allows him. But even in the JL, Batman has always been the smart one.

Now Clark telling Chloe Bart's secret is a grey area, because everyone has valid points. I, don't see what the big deal is. Everyone at one time or another has confided in someone they trust with a secret that was not their own. Rather you talk to a parent or psychiatrist or a good friend, these are people you know that you can trust with vital information. And considering that Chloe had information on 33.1, maybe Clark could see that she would be an asset, he didn't seem to be surprised at knowing that Chloe was "Watchtower" But even before then, he seemed conflicted at telling Chloe the truth, his facial expression says it all, and he went with his instincts that Chloe could be trusted.

Luckily, it all worked out, I don't think anyone thought less of Clark for spilling the beans. Decisions sometimes are based on how it plays out, and in this situation it worked out for the good.

freefall

01-19-2007, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Rachel B
Superman has always been brawn over brain. Now I must admit that as Superman Clark uses his intellect alot more than the SV univese allows him. But even in the JL, Batman has always been the smart one.

I myself don't know much about the comics or the mythos, but I don't think Superman has always been brawn over brain, or Batman is smarter than him...? It just doesn't sound right to me, given the portrayal of Clark being a very intelligent man in most of the comic scans/strips I've read on the internet.

Maybe Kal-ed or some other comic book buff can give more details on this.

Rachel B

01-19-2007, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by seacrystal
I myself don't know much about the comics or the mythos, but I don't think Superman has always been brawn over brain, or Batman is smarter than him...? It just doesn't sound right to me, given the portrayal of Clark being a very intelligent man in most of the comic scans/strips I've read on the internet.

Maybe Kal-ed or some other comic book buff can give more details on this.

Not saying that he never uses his brain, but he has a tendancy to rush into a situation where Batman plans it out first. Then again I am not really a comic book person, I am speaking from JL and JLU TAS. Maybe the comics are different.

Liriel

01-19-2007, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by ChlarkMe
I thought it was very ironic that Clark told Chloe everything just like that. He outed Bart, AC and Cyborg. Shouldn't he have felt a little bit guilty about it. Well, he only outed Bart in this ep - and he was trying to protect Bart. Don't agree with his decision, though. AC he did because he suspected him as a baddie way back in "Thirst" - you're allowed to out bad guys. And I thought Victor knew she knew about him, or at least knew Clark told someone who was looking into things?

He did reveal they were all working for GA, though.

Kal-ed

01-19-2007, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Rachel B
Superman has always been brawn over brain. Now I must admit that as Superman Clark uses his intellect alot more than the SV univese allows him. But even in the JL, Batman has always been the smart one.

Not really, Yes Batman has to be more carefull than SUperman, he is a mere mortal and depends on using his oponents weaknesses and sneaky stuff to engage, all this is true, but Superman also uses his brain a lot, granted in a FIGHT yes Supes rarely has to really worry about the outcome and jumps into it before more people get hurt, including his teammates. But when, there is some villan ploting something (for example Luthor) Supes does his share of investigating, not only as reporter but as Superman, and he is quite a good one at that.

And needless to say we havent been shown anything of that sort from SV Clark since Chloe learnt his secret.

I, don't see what the big deal is. Everyone at one time or another has confided in someone they trust with a secret that was not their own. Rather you talk to a parent or psychiatrist or a good friend, these are people you know that you can trust with vital information.

The problem is Clark is not EVERYONE, he is diferent and even as as a young man he always displayed moral values beyond those of the common people. And this issue can be inserted in ethics and moral ground, this is someplace where Clark shouldnt falter, that is one of his most important traits, one he posseses even before he becomes Superman.

There is no gray area here, IT WAS SIMPLY NOT HIS SECRET TO TELL and whether he trusts Chloe with his life or not is besides the point.

Again Id like to see Clark´s reaction to Bart telling someone else Clarks secret.

P.S. one funny thing Ive seen is that Chlarkers are the ones defenting Clark´s actions, as if they had anything to do with Chloe, but the truth is CLARK´S ACTIONS ARE HIS ALONE, and he is the one on the acusation bench not Chloe.

UpandAtom

01-19-2007, 10:37 PM

The thing everyone seems to be ignoring is that Clark didn't have to tell Chloe about Bart's powers. He could've just told that Bart was up to no good and ask her where he could find him. Just because Bart might be doing something dangerous with his powers doesn't give him a right to tell everyone about them. Otherwise, Chloe would have the right to tell the world about Clark everytime he's infected with red kryptonite or something.

Ken-El

01-19-2007, 10:42 PM

Bingo Effect!!! I was thinking the same thing. I felt that Clark was tired of keeping secrets from the one person he was closest to. I was proud to see Clark finally "learning to trust" others. Chloe is protecting his secret and if she can protect the fact that an alien from an advanced civilization is living among us, well let's say she can be trusted to keep the identity of League Members; or soon to be League Members. In Justice, Clark seemed to finally start realizing that he can share the burden and understand he "....can't be everywhere at the same time.."; that there are others who can help him (like Martian Manhunter).

Besides, Chloe proved to be a worthy asset to the team. The whole "Watchtower" angle had me on the edge of my seat. The team didn't seem to mind.

UpandAtom

01-19-2007, 10:52 PM

I don't think it was about that. Clark could be completely honest with Chloe about everything and she would still keep things from him, as evidenced from the Lana pregnancy/proposal.

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 11:18 PM

Exactly Ken el, there was no reason for Clark not to tell Chloe. If he didn't tell Chloe he would still be stuck in that warehouse crippled by kryptonite. Chloe is the one that told them where Clark was. Clark is supposed to tell Chloe before he goes into an unknown situation. He trusts her way more than he trusts them. He was unsure about Ollie who hired these guys and he told Bart to leave. Clark was not about to go into an unknown situation without telling the person he trusts the most everything. If he didn't tell Chloe, that would not have made any sense. When I was watching the episode I said to myself that Chloe bashers will be upset. When she was called watchtower by the crew and then she was hanging out with the League, it was great :)!!! Go Chloe, and the writers are smart. You tell the person you trust the most to protect yourself before you enter an unknown situation. It just makes sense.

kiariclois

01-19-2007, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by Kal-ed

There is no gray area here, IT WAS SIMPLY NOT HIS SECRET TO TELL and whether he trusts Chloe with his life or not is besides the point.

Again Id like to see Clark´s reaction to Bart telling someone else Clarks secret.

You said these things over and over again... but still, people didn't get it... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Kal-ed
P.S. one funny thing Ive seen is that Chlarkers are the ones defenting Clark´s actions, as if they had anything to do with Chloe, but the truth is CLARK´S ACTIONS ARE HIS ALONE, and he is the one on the acusation bench not Chloe.

Word... It's true... ;)

Polomontana

01-19-2007, 11:50 PM

Of course I'm defending Clark's actions because they were smart. He just got through telling Bart he thought they were Amigo's. He trusts Chloe way more than he does Bart or any of them. Clark is not an island, he trusts Chloe and that's more impotant than his relationship with any of the guys in the Justice League. This was there first time working together. Some act as if JL has been working together for years and then Clark told Chloe and she's someone he just met. Sorry, but Clark's actions were the smart actions. You cover your back and Clark wanted someone in the mix that he could trust until he fully understood the situation. This makes sense.

kiariclois

01-19-2007, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by Polomontana
Of course I'm defending Clark's actions because they were smart. He just got through telling Bart he thought they were Amigo's. He trusts Chloe way more than he does Bart or any of them. Clark is not an island, he trusts Chloe and that's more impotant than his relationship with any of the guys in the Justice League. This was there first time working together. Some act as if JL has been working together for years and then Clark told Chloe and she's someone he just met. Sorry, but Clark's actions were the smart actions. You cover your back and Clark wanted someone in the mix that he could trust until he fully understood the situation. This makes sense.

Again trust is NOT the issue... it's Clark action in telling other people secret... He could ask for her help without telling the secret... sheesh...

Polomontana

01-20-2007, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by kiariclois
Again trust is NOT the issue... it's Clark action in telling other people secret... He could ask for her help without telling the secret... sheesh...

Why would he do that? That doesn't make sense unless he distrusts Chloe. Again, he's going into an unknown situation and he trusts Chloe way more than he trusts the other guys. Of course he's gonna tell her everything because he trusts her unconditionally. It's smart to have someone in the mix that you can trusts until you understand the situation. It is about trusts and comfort. Also, did Bart throw a tantrum when he found out Chloe knew? I'm sure Bart fully understood because he was being secretive with Clark. Why didn't Bart trust Clark?

UpandAtom

01-20-2007, 12:16 AM

So if Oliver trusted Lois unconditionally, would that give him the right to tell her about Clark?

kiariclois

01-20-2007, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Polomontana
Why would he do that? That doesn't make sense unless he distrusts Chloe. Again, he's going into an unknown situation and he trusts Chloe way more than he trusts the other guys. Of course he's gonna tell her everything because he trusts her unconditionally. It's smart to have someone in the mix that you can trusts until you understand the situation. It is about trusts and comfort. Also, did Bart throw a tantrum when he found out Chloe knew? I'm sure Bart fully understood because he was being secretive with Clark. Why didn't Bart trust Clark?

Like what I told you before, it's not his secret to tell... I know that Chloe would still help him he didn't tell her the secret... She does trust him... He could easily tell her that his friend's in trouble... there's no need for him to blurt out the secret... I'm sure Chloe would found out eventually... that would be ok if she figured it out by herself... Yes, Bart didn't 'throw a tantrum'... but that's not the problem... It's Clark's action in telling other people's secret... :(

Originally posted by UpandAtom
So if Oliver trusted Lois unconditionally, would that give him the right to tell her about Clark?

Good question...

MidgardDragon

01-20-2007, 12:24 AM

So if Oliver trusted Lois unconditionally, would that give him the right to tell her about Clark?

If Clark was in life and death trouble and Lois could somehow help (doubtful), then yes.

UpandAtom

01-20-2007, 12:27 AM

But the fact is that Lois can't keep a secret. She blabbed to Clark about Oliver being Green Arrow so if she knew that Clark was an alien, she'd probably blab it to the world. Same thing with Chloe. She told the world about Alicia's abilities, how does Clark know she won't expose Bart?

Polomontana

01-20-2007, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by UpandAtom
So if Oliver trusted Lois unconditionally, would that give him the right to tell her about Clark?

Of course, but he doesn't. He doesn't even tell Lois about himself. If he has known Lois for years and he has trusted her with his secret and she has protected it with her life, then of cours he's gonna tell Lois about Clark especially before he enters an unknown situation. That just makes sense.

What nobody here has been able to answer is why he shouldn't have told Chloe when going into an unknown situation. It only makes sense. Bart trusted the other guys more than he did Clark and that makes sense because he didn't know if Clark would jeapordize what they were trying to do. That's why Bart didn't TRUST Clark. He didn't trust him because it was UNKNOWN how Clark would react. Just like Clark didn't trust them because things were UNKNOWN to him so he told the person that he trusts the most Chloe. It makes perfect sense.

Have we been watching the same show? People act like Clark has only known Chloe for 2 months.

Sharkie

01-20-2007, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by ChlarkMe
but because Clark did it so quickly it seemed out of Character.:) :) I don't think it was. He didn't tell her when he came back right away, it was only when he needed to.

Polomontana

01-20-2007, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by Sharkie
I don't think it was. He didn't tell her when he came back right away, it was only when he needed to.

Excellent point. If he just wanted to tell Chloe Bart's secret, why didn't he tell her at the beginning. It wasn't until Bart was secretive with him and he found he was working for Ollie, that he told Chloe. At that point he had to protect himself and tell the person he has trusted the most for the last few seasons if you have been watching the show. This was JL's first mission together and Clark was just being smart. Even in the end he didn't fully trust Ollie. He had to make sure people had left the building before they blew it up. He knows Ollie has a vigilante streak, so he had to make sure first. Trust is something that happens over time, like between Clark and Chloe(Watchtower) :).

All about Clark

01-20-2007, 01:43 AM

He only told her because he thought Bart's life was in jeapardy, which it was, and if he hadn't told her, things wouldn't have worked out the way they did. It brought the quickest resolution to a life threatening situation. It was the right thing to do, and it's good that Clark can reason out when a circumstance has changed and a secret needs to be told, that should have been seen as improvement in his character, to go against what he believed to save a life.

hrhsalla

01-20-2007, 03:42 AM

how does Clark know she won't expose Bart?

Because two years have passed with her knowing clarks secret , she knew about AC and victor and Green Arrow and she didn't write about them (wich have got her front page)so i think that clued him in that she wouldn't tell anybody

MidgardDragon

01-20-2007, 03:47 AM

Originally posted by UpandAtom
But the fact is that Lois can't keep a secret. She blabbed to Clark about Oliver being Green Arrow so if she knew that Clark was an alien, she'd probably blab it to the world. Same thing with Chloe. She told the world about Alicia's abilities, how does Clark know she won't expose Bart?

1) Lois isn't as trustworthy as Chloe, no, but you qualified your statement with Oliver trusting Lois the same way Clark trusts Chloe.

2) Chloe exposed Alicia, someone she barely knew, someone who was dangerous. She has known Clark for a very long time, and like she said, they trust each other unconditionally. She has proven herself over the past season and a half to be a trustworthy keeper of his secret. She told Clark she would die before giving up his secret. Clark knows she won't expose Bart because he trusts her and she trusts him.

You're acting like they don't have this entire history of her proving that she can keep a secret. She also didn't reveal Oliver's secret to Lois even after figuring it out on her own. All evidence points to the fact that she can keep some very very big secrets in spite of her job. Linda Lake made a very good point, exposing Clark as an alien would make Chloe's career. But she still doesn't do it. That is saying a lot for Chloe.

lastdaughterofkrypton

01-20-2007, 08:45 AM

I remember a JLA episode when the hawkpeople was taking over the earth and the supreheros needed to use their civilian identities to hide. Wally was all I'm not sure if I can trust you with that and Batman outed everybody on front of them so they could get over it and go back to saving the world.
This has been one of the few proactive things that Clark has done in the show and leaders are supposed to be like that. Now unless you think Batman was wrong or that they have the time to discuss if they let everyone know their secrets identities Clark make a right choice during a life or death crisis.
I have no idea what the fuss is about I mean Chloe is best when she is having the more information to work with and Clark knows that.

SteveS

01-20-2007, 09:00 AM

No, not a problem at all. Chloe was part and parcel of the success of this team, not some outside source of information. If the other team members felt threatened, then they should have spoken up.

They didn't, no problem.

lastdaughterofkrypton

01-20-2007, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by UpandAtom
But the fact is that Lois can't keep a secret. She blabbed to Clark about Oliver being Green Arrow so if she knew that Clark was an alien, she'd probably blab it to the world. Same thing with Chloe. She told the world about Alicia's abilities, how does Clark know she won't expose Bart?

That is an interesting take on the matter.
When Chloe suspected Clark (before knowing the secret) she never told anyone about him or tried to set a trap to caught him with other people's help.
Temp Lois recruited Clark and a photographer to do that. How was she sure that Jimmy will kept the secret and didn't tried to make a career out of outing the GA. I cannot blame her for Clark though because at this point she might consider him trustworthy but Jimmy?! She barely knew him and we was just demoted a temptation for him could be enough to spill the beans...Funny enough no one at the Hydro thread complained that Temp Lois should had kept to herself her suspictions about GA ;)

hrhsalla

01-20-2007, 09:28 AM

edited wrong thread

Polomontana

01-20-2007, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by lastdaughterofkrypton
That is an interesting take on the matter.
When Chloe suspected Clark (before knowing the secret) she never told anyone about him or tried to set a trap to caught him with other people's help.
Temp Lois recruited Clark and a photographer to do that. How was she sure that Jimmy will kept the secret and didn't tried to make a career out of outing the GA. I cannot blame her for Clark though because at this point she might consider him trustworthy but Jimmy?! She barely knew him and we was just demoted a temptation for him could be enough to spill the beans...Funny enough no one at the Hydro thread complained that Temp Lois should had kept to herself her suspictions about GA ;)

Very good point. None of these same people complained about Lois when she ratted out Ollie to Clark. If Lois loves Ollie so much, why couldn't she keep the secret that he might be the Green Arrow. It's not Lois place to tell Ollie's secret LOL. I mean, it's so obvious that Clark should tell Chloe, and I have no problem with Lois going to Clark. It just points out the Clark/Chloe envy :).

Sharkie

01-20-2007, 12:07 PM

Anyone remember part of the conversation when Clark told Chloe?

Paraphrasing:
Clark: I'm sorry I didn't tell you sooner.
Chloe: No, it's okay, you were protecting him.

Chloe understands she needs to keep it a secret.

xrayvision

01-20-2007, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by All about Clark
He only told her because he thought Bart's life was in jeapardy, which it was, and if he hadn't told her, things wouldn't have worked out the way they did. It brought the quickest resolution to a life threatening situation. It was the right thing to do, and it's good that Clark can reason out when a circumstance has changed and a secret needs to be told, that should have been seen as improvement in his character, to go against what he believed to save a life.

I do not believe Bart was yet captured when he told her. I have to go back & watch. But still, he had no right. When I used to buy comics, whenever I picked up a DC or Marvel comic, I never read an issue where a hero had to go to someone else (without powers) to save the day or to try to find someone. I mean the guy is supposed to become friggin' Superman next year!!! What was Chloe gonna do anyway to save Bart? If Lex was as bad as he's supposed to be, there would be no way anyone could track of materials he ordered based on purchase orders and deliveries. He would have kept that off the books. Instead, they could have done something great like having Clark, AC and Victor break into various Luthorcorp buildings and find records of those delivered materials themselves. Why are they making the heroes on this show so stupid and dependent on a reporter? It's a disgrace. Clark should have kept her out of the loop and done things himself as he did for a lot of the season. I liked the way Chloe & Clark tracked down the zoners together, but whenever anything about the GA/Ollie arose, Clark always kept it under wraps. Now even the bond between heroes is no longer sacred and exclusively between the heroes.

It is a total 180 on Clark's part. Ollie was in danger in Rage, and he took care of everything himself without telling Chloe or Lois the details. For some reason, they want to include Chloe in everything Clark does. And this was a very bad idea. Instead they should be showing why Clark's path in becoming Superman and working with the JLA is one that he must take alone since he is not human and must not get too close to them as he did with Lana. That is the lesson they have been building towards (just watch Fallout) and they just went back on it. Someone else should have been in the watchtower role. What excuse are they gonna make now that the JLA is going out on more missions without Chloe. How will they get their missions done without her? Very simple, just as they did before Justice (while they were doing their thing unknown to Clark). Which means, they always operated without someone in that role and never ran into problems. So Chloe being told by Clark was a plan made by TPTB just to throw Chloe in the middle of the events of the episode, just like what they did with the witch arc for Lana so they could include her in the stones storyline. This really ruined the episode for me. Last week and for a bunch of episodes before, Clark started looking very smart and no longer the BDA. But the BDA was back in full force in Justice, and that makes me sick especially when in a year's time, he will supposedly become Superman.

Khyla

01-20-2007, 01:27 PM

I can't believe this dissing of Clark for telling Chloe about Bart and that BArt and the others were working w/ Oliver. I think that's ridiculous. She played an integral part in the whole rescue mission of both Bart and Clark! :

Did any of them even know about Clark's reactions to Kryptonite? :eek: I don't think so.

( I don't even think any of them know that he's from another planet! :eek: )

I also love how Clark told Chloe that he's sorry for not telling her sooner about Bart, that he feels he shouldn't keep secrets from the people he really cares about. Awwww! :) and chloe telling GA how they trust each other and tell each other everything. Awww! :)

InLove_with_Chloe

01-20-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Khyla
Did any of them even know about Clark's reactions to Kryptonite? :eek: I don't think so.

( I don't even think any of them know that he's from another planet! :eek: )
Excellent point, Khyla.
I remember how surprised I was. Because Chloe said it as if the others were to know about the meteor rock. Which they don't I think...

chlo-el

01-20-2007, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by Khyla
I can't believe this dissing of Clark for telling Chloe about Bart and that BArt and the others were working w/ Oliver. I think that's ridiculous. She played an integral part in the whole rescue mission of both Bart and Clark! :

Did any of them even know about Clark's reactions to Kryptonite? :eek: I don't think so.

( I don't even think any of them know that he's from another planet! :eek: )

I also love how Clark told Chloe that he's sorry for not telling her sooner about Bart, that he feels he shouldn't keep secrets from the people he really cares about. Awwww! :) and chloe telling GA how they trust each other and tell each other everything. Awww! :)

Actually I think Bart is the only one of the group that knows about Kryptonite. But since was captured too, it really wouldn't help.

freefall

01-20-2007, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Polomontana
Very good point. None of these same people complained about Lois when she ratted out Ollie to Clark. If Lois loves Ollie so much, why couldn't she keep the secret that he might be the Green Arrow. It's not Lois place to tell Ollie's secret LOL. I mean, it's so obvious that Clark should tell Chloe, and I have no problem with Lois going to Clark. It just points out the Clark/Chloe envy :).

You missed a very important difference here. How could Lois rat out Oliver's secret without her even knowing it in the first place? She just had her suspicions, that's all. Of course it makes sense for her to share it with a friend like Clark. Also, with her "Your secret's safe with me" line, how does constitute she's even thinking of blabbing Oliver's secret?

On the other hand, Clark already and definitely knows about the secret. That's why it qualified him as ratting out Bart.

It wasn't even necessary for Clark to out Bart's secret. He could achieve the same results by simply saying, "Chloe I need your help, a friend of mine is in trouble but I can't tell you anymore that that." And Chloe would have accepted that explanation and helped out, no questions asked.

This has nothing to do with Bart being okay with it anyway, or Clark trusting Chloe, or someone being able to save the day once again or Chlark envy or whatever. It's all about the principle of never telling anyone about someone else's secret. And Clark has violated that principle, that's why it's such an issue.

Sharkie

01-20-2007, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by xrayvision
I do not believe Bart was yet captured when he told her. Actually he was captured at that point, but it is not like he could know. He had a gut feeling Bart was in danger. He was right. Bart was indeed in danger. Breaking into several LuthorCorp offices would take too much time. By that point Oliver had been searching for clues as to where Bart could be, but they weren't finding anything at all.

xrayvision

01-20-2007, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Khyla
I can't believe this dissing of Clark for telling Chloe about Bart and that BArt and the others were working w/ Oliver. I think that's ridiculous. She played an integral part in the whole rescue mission of both Bart and Clark!

She only played an integral part because they had to make the JLA look like morons so they could throw Chloe into it. She did not belong in that circle. If these are the future superheroes, they should be able to save the day all on their own without a crutch like Chloe.

Clark telling Chloe about Bart violated the same expectations he has of those who keep his secret. If it is OK to reveal someone's secret ID to a very trusted friend because the person with the secret ID is in danger, then that means Chloe should have told Lana about Clark's secret in the last few seasons when Clark was in trouble and when Chloe totally trusted Lana. This was a major character and integrity flaw of Clark's.

Originally posted by Khyla
Did any of them even know about Clark's reactions to Kryptonite? :eek: I don't think so.

( I don't even think any of them know that he's from another planet! :eek: )[/B]

Yes, Bart did know about kryptonite/meteor rock and how it affects Clark. He finds out in Run. I would think that among his discussions with the other members, something would come up that Clark is vulnerable to green-k and since they were his buddies, they would have done something to limit CK's exposure to it. Or at least know about it.

Originally posted by Khyla
I also love how Clark told Chloe that he's sorry for not telling her sooner about Bart, that he feels he shouldn't keep secrets from the people he really cares about. Awwww! :) and chloe telling GA how they trust each other and tell each other everything. Awww! :)

Yup. Awwww. Let's see how much "Awwww" there would have been if Chloe would have told Lana Clark's secret in Splinter when Clark was in trouble (when Chloe trusted Lana). I guess there's a double standard.

Originally posted by seacrystal
It wasn't even necessary for Clark to out Bart's secret. He could achieve the same results by simply saying, "Chloe I need your help, a friend of mine is in trouble but I can't tell you anymore that that." And Chloe would have accepted that explanation and helped out, no questions asked.

I agree. If Clark would have said that it would have improved things. But what would still bother me is how anyone would be able to find materials that Lex used to build the holding cell for Bart. If Lex is to be portrayed as an evil mastermind, he would never be so sloppy. Justice showed Lex as impotent when dealing with 33.1. If Lionel was right and word of 33.1 getting out would destroy Luthorcorp, he would keep it so far under the rug that nobody would be able to find out unless they broke into various facilities of Lex's and found hardcopies. If they would have made Bart and maybe Victor go on covert missions like that to uncover that info and then have the team use that info to save Bart after he got captured, it would have been well-done.

Originally posted by seacrystal
This has nothing to do with Bart being okay with it anyway, or Clark trusting Chloe, or someone being able to save the day once again or Chlark envy or whatever. It's all about the principle of never telling anyone about someone else's secret. And Clark has violated that principle, that's why it's such an issue.

Exactly. Regarding Polomontana's comment that you responded to, even if Lois did rat out Ollie and was sure that it was him, yes it would make me think low of Lois. But this is not about Lois. She is not Ms. Secrets. This is about Mr. Secrets & Lies himself. His own secret is very important to him. And we saw his facial expression in Arrival when he knew Chloe found out his secret in the hospital room. This is the same guy who just gives away someone else's secret. That to me is inexcusable. He should have shown us why he will be Superman and find Bart himself without ratting him out and breaking the cardinal rule. Period.

myankskent

01-20-2007, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by xrayvision

Yup. Awwww. Let's see how much "Awwww" there would have been if Chloe would have told Lana Clark's secret in Splinter when Clark was in trouble (when Chloe trusted Lana). I guess there's a double standard.

Exactly. I guess that Chloe should've told Lana in Splinter then and that would've been fine with everyone.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by xrayvision

Exactly. Regarding Polomontana's comment that you responded to, even if Lois did rat out Ollie and was sure that it was him, yes it would make me think low of Lois. But this is not about Lois. She is not Ms. Secrets. This is about Mr. Secrets & Lies himself. His own secret is very important to him. And we saw his facial expression in Arrival when he knew Chloe found out his secret in the hospital room. This is the same guy who just gives away someone else's secret. That to me is inexcusable. He should have shown us why he will be Superman and find Bart himself without ratting him out and breaking the cardinal rule. Period.

100 percent agree. Thanks for explaining that.

Kal-ed

01-20-2007, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Khyla
I can't believe this dissing of Clark for telling Chloe about Bart and that BArt and the others were working w/ Oliver. I think that's ridiculous. She played an integral part in the whole rescue mission of both Bart [b]and Clark! :

Again, your making it out to be about Chloe, and THIS IS NOT ABOUT CHLOE, no body cares WHO Clark told, Its the fact that CLARK revealed a secret THAT WASNT HIS TO TELL.

We are going around in circles, because on one side, some are complaining about Clark telling a secret that wasnt his to tell, and then for some reason Chlarkers are discussing that its all right that Chloe Knows, so fundamentally we are arguing about two diferent things. I DONT MIND CHLOE KNOWING ABOUT BART, What I do mind is Clark outing Bart unncesarily, especially when Clark knows the importance of keeping a secret like this.

Heck IM ONE OF THE ONES THAT COMPLAING ABOUT SUPERCHLOE and in this episode I really liked the functions she took as "Watchtower", so again THIS IS NOT ABOUT CHLOE so stop bringing her into the discussion, yes we mention her cause she was the one that Clark told the secret too, but it only means she is INDIRECTLY involved, but the one and only GUILTY and the one and only being acused of something is CLARK.

I dont mind tha CHloe knows I mind that Clark told her someone elses secret.

xrayvision

01-20-2007, 02:26 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by myankskent
Exactly. I guess that Chloe should've told Lana in Splinter then and that would've been fine with everyone.:rolleyes:

100 percent agree. Thanks for explaining that. [/QUOTE

You're welcome. I am also a Chloe fan, but I draw the lines about what should and should not be told to her. It seems to me like many of those who like her are making excuses for Clark telling her this. As much as I now dislike Lana, I know it wouldn't be the same if Lana gained that knowledge.

I like Clark, and agree that Chloe should not have told Clark about Lana's pregnancy. Those who say Clark should have told her should also agree that Chloe should have told Clark about Lana's pregnancy and how close she got to Lex and how it's dangerous for Lana to be with him even though she's the future mother of his future child. If Chloe was right to yell at Clark for withholding Lana's secret in Hydro, then Bart would be right for yelling at Clark for not keeping his.

I mean, c'mon, they just made a huge stance on the characters' positions of keeping secrets just last episode.

Kal-ed

01-20-2007, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Polomontana
Exactly Ken el, there was no reason for Clark not to tell Chloe. If he didn't tell Chloe he would still be stuck in that warehouse crippled by kryptonite.

YES THERE IS A HUGE REASON NOT TO TELL HER, ITS NOT HIS FRIGGIN SECRET and this is more than enough reason not to tell ANYONE.

And now, Clark didnt need to give her names, he could have just given her the cellphone number and ask her to get the calls, the whole "He has superspeed" was NOT necesary.

But again this isnt about Chloe, no one is mad Chloe knows, we jut dont like our future Superman, spilling secrets of his fellow metahuman buddies whe he himself would be COMPLETELY OUTRAGED if one of them told their secret to somebody else.

jaime,oburg

01-20-2007, 02:32 PM

Just checking back to see how the debate has been raging on. Almost 15 pages now. Wow, great thread and great posts. I'm done justifing my opinion. I now just like to be entertained by others carrying on, thank you........ continue please.:cool:

Kal-ed

01-20-2007, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Polomontana
Why would he do that? That doesn't make sense unless he distrusts Chloe.

It DOESNT mean he doesnt trust her, it means that he understands that HE CANT BE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE (even if he trusts them) secrets that arent his.

Nope and aside from the fact that you keep making it about Chloe when its not I will explain why, AGAIN what Clark did was wrong.

Remember in Arrow, when Clark deleted Chloe´s files about GA, well, he explained and she understood PERFECTLY and I thought that was really mature of Chloe, to just tell Clark she understood that he had to keep SECRETS THAT ARENT HIS.

It didnt mean Clark didnt trust Chloe, cause his relationship with Chloe is besidesd the point, whether is he had told Lois or Pete about Bart the result is the same, Clark is telling somebody elses secret.

myankskent

01-20-2007, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
YES THERE IS A HUGE REASON NOT TO TELL HER, ITS NOT HIS FRIGGIN SECRET and this is more than enough reason not to tell ANYONE.

And now, Clark didnt need to give her names, he could have just given her the cellphone number and ask her to get the calls, the whole "He has superspeed" was NOT necesary.

But again this isnt about Chloe, no one is mad Chloe knows, we jut dont like our future Superman, spilling secrets of his fellow metahuman buddies whe he himself would be COMPLETELY OUTRAGED if one of them told their secret to somebody else.

The issue that I have with the way that this scenario was written is that TPTB wanted to have Chloe be the oracle, sort of speak, when the Justice League busted into 33.1. I didn't like the Oracle stuff, to be completely honest, because when you have 5 members of the Justice league, they shouldn't need a human guiding them through a building, they should know what to do by themselves. But the real problem is that Chloe had to learn everyone's secret in order for her to become the oracle and what TPTB basically did was make Clark look like a complete moron all so Chloe could be the oracle. That's the way that I look at this situation, others may view it differently. They could've gone about it another way. They could've had Bart simply tell Chloe at the beginning of the episode that he had powers rather than Clark having to tell Chloe. This is why the elevation of Chloe's character here bothers me if Clark's character is going to look bad as a result of it. From that standpoint, it is a chloe issue to a degree but it also depends on how you look at the situation. So basically, if TPTB want Chloe in on everyone's secret, fine, just don't make Clark look bad so Chloe's character is elevated. Keep Clark out of the situation, but that's not what they did this episode.

chlo-el

01-20-2007, 02:42 PM

I think Clark has always been confused about the telling the truth thing. I guess he feels like he should let Chloe in on everything. He seems like he feels guilty for keeping secrets from her. The way he said he was sorry for not telling Chloe about Bart's secret mirrored the way he felt guilty for not telling her about Alicia's secret and Chloe didn't even know Clark's secret then.

I think it has more to do with about Clark and Chloe relationship and how much Clark trusts Chloe. Clark also was feeling bad about helping Ollie keep his secret from Lois. So he lets her in on Bart. Plus it really looked like when he heard what they were doing he saw that Chloe could really help.

And I'm sorry but Chloe is not a crutch she made a pretty amazing team even more amazing. Haven't you ever heard of behind every Great man there is an even greater woman. That's Chloe to Clark and to the whole team.

Kal-ed

01-20-2007, 02:45 PM

OH SO NOW ITS A CHLARK THING,my my my. THis is getting riduculous.

NO, THIS IS NOT ABOUT CLARK AND CHLOE, this is about Clark ALL BY HIMSELF AND HIS DECISIONS, the fact is whether he trust Chloe or not is a diferent subject, Heck open a thread about it, but we are here to discuss if it was right that Clark outed a secret that wasnt his.

Originally posted by chlo-el

And I'm sorry but Chloe is not a crutch she made a pretty amazing team even more amazing. Haven't you ever heard of behind every Great man there is an even greater woman. That's Chloe to Clark and to the whole team.

No, she is a sidekick

myankskent

01-20-2007, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by chlo-el

And I'm sorry but Chloe is not a crutch she made a pretty amazing team even more amazing. Haven't you ever heard of behind every Great man there is an even greater woman. That's Chloe to Clark and to the whole team.

This I disagree with entirely. This is not the Chloe show. Clark should be the great man, nobody else should be above him. The way this episode played out, it was clear to me that Chloe was being portrayed as the "greater woman" since the Justice League would never have had a prayer of finding Bart if it wasn't for her, and that is a major problem, IMO. And this is off-topic but perhaps someone would like to make a thread about this because I have plenty to say regarding this issue.

Kal-ed

01-20-2007, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
If Clark was in life and death trouble and Lois could somehow help (doubtful), then yes.

Maybe, but Clark only had to omit the "Bart has superspeed" and things would have developed perfectly, heck he could have even said "Chloe I cant give you any more details on who you are helping me save, please its just not my secret to tell" and puff all things fixed, and nice.

TheSupaMan

01-20-2007, 02:49 PM

I think Chloe's involvement in that particular episode was necessary...but only because how it was written.
I do believe there could've been another way to go about the process to make them seem much more of a team, without making Chloe be the helping hand as always.

Now on the subject of whether or not it was right for Clark to tell Chloe, Bart's secret. There's no question, that it was wrong. But there's no denying that it was also off instinct. But in order for the episode to turn out the way it did, I don't think the writers could come up of a better way for it to happen without Chloe learning Bart's secret.

Now, could she have learned it in a different approach? No doubt. They just didn't take the time to think of another one.

Kal-ed

01-20-2007, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
1) Lois isn't as trustworthy as Chloe, no, but you qualified your statement with Oliver trusting Lois the same way Clark trusts Chloe.

2) Chloe exposed Alicia, someone she barely knew, someone who was dangerous. She has known Clark for a very long time, and like she said, they trust each other unconditionally. She has proven herself over the past season and a half to be a trustworthy keeper of his secret. She told Clark she would die before giving up his secret. Clark knows she won't expose Bart because he trusts her and she trusts him.

You're acting like they don't have this entire history of her proving that she can keep a secret. She also didn't reveal Oliver's secret to Lois even after figuring it out on her own. All evidence points to the fact that she can keep some very very big secrets in spite of her job. Linda Lake made a very good point, exposing Clark as an alien would make Chloe's career. But she still doesn't do it. That is saying a lot for Chloe.

I usually agree with your post but this is just so off point I must reply.

First we dont know HOW trustworthy Lois is, so untill we are shown something that shows its eitherway, we cant really discuss about it.

Yes Lois told Clark she suspected Ollie was GA, but that is completely diferent, Clark KNOWS, Bart has superspeed, Lois suspects Ollie is GA, we dont know how she would have reacted if she KNEW FOR SURE.

Now, just like every one defending CHLOE (:confused: :confused: ) you mistake Clarks relationship with Chloe with Clark´s relatinship with Bart.

Chloe knows she can trust Clark with anything, but she didnt tell him about the pregnancy, why??? Cause it was NOT HER SECRET TO TELL. Which is what it all boils down to, spilling secrets that arent yours, no matter how much you trust who you telling, its a breach of trust to the person the secret is about. So in a way, Clark betrayed Barts trust.

Originally posted by TheSupaMan
I think Chloe's involvement in that particular episode was necessary...but only because how it was written.
I do believe there could've been another way to go about the process to make them seem much more of a team, without making Chloe be the helping hand as always.

Now on the subject of whether or not it was right for Clark to tell Chloe, Bart's secret. There's no question, that it was wrong. But there's no denying that it was also off instinct. But in order for the episode to turn out the way it did, I don't think the writers could come up of a better way for it to happen without Chloe learning Bart's secret.

Now, could she have learned it in a different approach? No doubt. They just didn't take the time to think of another one.

But that exactly one of Myankskent points, that the writers are willing to make Clark look bad just so Chloe could have her ORACLE moment.

In reality it was so OOC of Clark to tell her the secret, as we have seen not long ago in Arrow, Clark even erased Chloes computer files on the GA. and in Rage even thoudh Ollies life was at stake Clark never told her about Ollie being GA. And now all of the sudden he spills it about Bart just like that.

And can someone explain to me, why the " Bart has superspeed" part was relevant????

He coudl have told her, I have a friend in trouble, help me get him out, here is the cel phone, the Superspeed part could be perfectly omited and Chloe could have still helped him.

I think they had Clark tell Chloe so later on she could be Watchtower, but the problem is, they made it at the expense of Clark.

xrayvision

01-20-2007, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
This I disagree with entirely. This is not the Chloe show. Clark should be the great man, nobody else should be above him. The way this episode played out, it was clear to me that Chloe was being portrayed as the "greater woman" since the Justice League would never have had a prayer of finding Bart if it wasn't for her, and that is a major problem, IMO. And this is off-topic but perhaps someone would like to make a thread about this because I have plenty to say regarding this issue.

This is entirely correct. I don't care if they kill off everyone on the show except for Clark & Lex. Nobody should be promoted at the expense of Clark. It's a disgrace if out of Clark, Victor, AC, and Ollie, none of them would ever be able to find Bart.

There is a time & place for every supporting character. Chloe's place is the DP and going out either by herself or with Jimmy for the story. Her place is not amongst a bunch of guys who are going to be saddled with saving the world and who need someone holding their hand to do it at this stage. They have taken Chloe very far out of context by giving her all these skills that she has never been given training for. I think there is no credibility to her knowing all these skills and no credibility with Jimmy knowing how to bring Lex & Lana back from another frequency in Static. If they want a tech savvy character, let them bring on someone like Molly Griggs from Delete (but one who's not a psycho).

Getting back on topic, Clark was turned into a hypocrite in this episode. And the only reason why was so they could include Chloe in the team. As I've said before, this was just like making Clark & the majority of the season look so horribly bad in season 4 just to have Lana in the stones arc.

UpandAtom

01-20-2007, 06:37 PM

I remember when Chloe walked into the Green Arrow's headquarters. She justified knowing the secret by saying that "we tell each other everything." Except she keeps things from Clark (e.g. the Lana pregnancy/proposal). Why does Clark feel an obligation to tell her everything if she constantly hides things from him, things he wants to know.

What was the point in her knowing the whole team's secret in the first place, just so she could be the watchtower. Victor Stone is Cyborg. He should've been able to hack into all the computer systems and done everything that Chloe did in this episode.

And about Lois, now I understand why Oliver didn't tell her, because she can't keep anything to herself. Even if she didn't know for sure, she let Clark and Jimmy in. Clark might not have exposed Oliver, but Jimmy definetely would have.

xrayvision

01-20-2007, 06:46 PM

I guess they wanted to satisfy the Chloe fans. I am a Chloe fan, but think she should have been left out of that whole scenario. She had no business since she is not a superhero.

And regardless of how wrong it was for Clark to tell Chloe someone else's secret no matter how much he can trust her, based from the vibe I got from Hydro, Chloe did not tell Clark about what Linda Lake found out about him.

Myrddin

01-20-2007, 07:24 PM

Chloe already knew about Ollie. She also knew about AC's and Victor's abilties - so what Clark "outed" was not their abilities but that they were working with Ollie.

Should he have? Probably not.

With regards to Bart - he was trying to save him so I had no problem with that one.

kiariclois

01-20-2007, 07:29 PM

My God! This is getting RIDICULOUS... Kal-ed said it over and over again that IT'S NOT HIS SECRET TO TELL... people still don't get it... Still on with the whole TRUST issue... We know Clark trust Chloe but he has absolutely NO RIGHT to blurt out Other people's secret... And that is so UNLIKE Clark Kent to do such thing... So OOC...

myankskent

01-20-2007, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by kiariclois
My God! This is getting RIDICULOUS... Kal-ed said it over and over again that IT'S NOT HIS SECRET TO TELL... people still don't get it... Still on with the whole TRUST issue... We know Clark trust Chloe but he has absolutely NO RIGHT to blurt out Other people's secret... And that is so UNLIKE Clark Kent to do such thing... So OOC...

Yup. They clearly elevated Chloe's character so she can be the oracle at the expense of Clark's character. To everyone out there, I will ask this question....if Bart had a friend that he could trust and he took it upon himself to tell this friend Clark's secret, would that be ok?

celita

01-20-2007, 07:44 PM

6 seasons talking about keeping Clark´s secrets, trust issues, of protecting people you love and everything. And now Clark spill another hero´s secret and some people is like "oh it´s fine that´s cute". If Bart would tell his best friend, that he trusts and loves, Clark´s secret, would you be ok with that? Even if that person actually were trustworthy. Ollie didn´t know about kryptonite but we know that Bart knew about that. So Bart kept Clark´s secret even for the JL and he KNEW that they would never damage someone like Clark. And people still are like "oh Clark is a hypocrite who think his secret is the only that needs be keeped, ohh that´s cute"

PD: hey myankskent that was Transmission of thought jjjjjjjjjj

Raith

01-20-2007, 07:53 PM

Yeah, I do find that Clark is a hypocrite, it is quite sad that the writers did this.

MidgardDragon

01-20-2007, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by kiariclois
My God! This is getting RIDICULOUS... Kal-ed said it over and over again that IT'S NOT HIS SECRET TO TELL... people still don't get it... Still on with the whole TRUST issue... We know Clark trust Chloe but he has absolutely NO RIGHT to blurt out Other people's secret... And that is so UNLIKE Clark Kent to do such thing... So OOC...

And others of us have said OVER AND OVER again that Clark did the right thing because Bart was in trouble and needed help. If revealing someone's secret will save their life, it is the right thing to do. It just shows what great morals Clark has, IMO. Bart was okay with it, the whole freaking League was okay with it. Why? Because Clark helped save Bart's life, which was far more important than protecting Bart's secret.

kiariclois

01-20-2007, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by chlo-el
I think Clark has always been confused about the telling the truth thing. I guess he feels like he should let Chloe in on everything. He seems like he feels guilty for keeping secrets from her. The way he said he was sorry for not telling Chloe about Bart's secret mirrored the way he felt guilty for not telling her about Alicia's secret and Chloe didn't even know Clark's secret then.

Why should he do that? Telling other people's secret because he's guilty...

Originally posted by chlo-el
I think it has more to do with about Clark and Chloe relationship and how much Clark trusts Chloe. Clark also was feeling bad about helping Ollie keep his secret from Lois. So he lets her in on Bart. Plus it really looked like when he heard what they were doing he saw that Chloe could really help.

Again the trust thing... Because of that, he easily let her in? just like that? so OOC... Yeah, Chloe can help alright... But still, he could ask for her help WITHOUT TELLING THE SECRET...

UpandAtom

01-20-2007, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
Bart was okay with it, the whole freaking League was okay with it. Why? Because Clark helped save Bart's life, which was far more important than protecting Bart's secret.

They had to be okay with it. What were they supposed to say? That Clark shouldn't have told Chloe. Once a secret is out. It's out.

MidgardDragon

01-20-2007, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by UpandAtom
They had to be okay with it. What were they supposed to say? That Clark shouldn't have told Chloe. Once a secret is out. It's out.

What could they say? What would Clark do if Chloe told his secret without a very good reason? Answer: go off on her, probably never speak to her again. They could have easily disowned Clark but they didn't. The writers portrayed them as just shrugging their shoulders when Chloe came in admitting to knowing all about them for a reason. Because they *did not care*. Because Bart was *in trouble*. And because Clark was trying to help *save him*.

kiariclois

01-20-2007, 08:14 PM

MidgardDragon

01-20-2007, 08:20 PM

Y'know what? I'm not arguing it any more. I disagree with all of you who feel it was the wrong thing to do. I'm just glad Chloe was written so well in this episode and they had a female voice to add to the boy's club. Disagree with how they went about it (I disagree with that disagreement) but it's over and done now, and I'm glad it happened. Plus it gave Bart some fun moments with Chloe at the end.

kiariclois

01-20-2007, 08:22 PM

Editted

xrayvision

01-20-2007, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
And others of us have said OVER AND OVER again that Clark did the right thing because Bart was in trouble and needed help. If revealing someone's secret will save their life, it is the right thing to do. It just shows what great morals Clark has, IMO. Bart was okay with it, the whole freaking League was okay with it. Why? Because Clark helped save Bart's life, which was far more important than protecting Bart's secret.

Then Clark should have told Lois about Chloe's mother's mental illness and how all the women in Chloe's family had it in Tomb. Hell, he was hiding that from Chloe's own damn family. And she was in danger of being placed in Belle Reve, which would have only done worse.

No. Clark kept Chloe's secret even though she almost died in Tomb, yet outed Bart's like it was nothing. Chloe didn't have to know Bart's secret to help out. Heck, I think Clark being the imminent Superman who will track down scores of people he doesn't even know should at least be able to find Bart on his own.

I have said it before, there is a double standard here. If something controversial benefits Chloe that would otherwise get criticized if it would benefit another character, (at least) some Chlarkers are willing to look the other way. For someone who is so protective of his own secret to expose a fellow hero's, it is downright hypocritical. He has kept his own secret to the extremes. He was in serious trouble in Leech with Phelan, and when Lex offered his help, he refused it. That could have cost Jonathan his freedom. Was Clark selfish? No. He did the right thing back then and by himself using his brain was still able to save the day without any crutch character by his side.

The only secret Clark is rightfully allowed to give away is his own. Him telling Chloe in Arrival was a great idea. But somewhere along the way, they came up with an unwritten law that Chloe has to know everyone's secret.

I won't even get into the details of how much BS it is for Chloe to know how to operate a satellite with NO prior experience or for the team to find material purchase & shipping records of the stuff used to build Bart's cell on the internet.

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
I'm just glad Chloe was written so well in this episode and they had a female voice to add to the boy's club.

Yup, she was written piss-poor. Her actions contradicted one of her lines from Sneeze:

Chloe: All right, I'm a decent hacker, but I'm not a miracle worker. You really don't give me enough credit for this stuff. It's not easy.

Not a miracle worker? If operating a satellite with no prior knowledge isn't a miracle, then what is?

Funny thing is, I'm still trying to find the episode where she learns how to hack and do all the things she did in Mercy in my DVD collection. Oh, that's right, it must be in the lost episode 1-22 that will eventually be released.

If Chloe instead of being a reporter was a tech junkie, then I would accept it without any more questions. Or if she quit school & writing ANY articles instead for some high tech recon school, I would also buy it. If they wanted to add a female to the Boys Club, it should have been one of the superpowered persuasion. For now, I would have said to leave it as it was all along--without any Watchtower role. There never was one while the team was doing everything they were before Clark got involved. They should have saved that spot for the JLA spin-off.

Anyway, I'm done. For those who still think that it was OK for Clark to do that, then I hope he does the same to one of Chloe's secrets when she's in trouble. If it's truly OK for a secret to be given away when someone's in trouble, such a scenario will prove it.

celita

01-20-2007, 08:59 PM

Anyway, I'm done. For those who still think that it was OK for Clark to do that, then I hope he does the same to one of Chloe's secrets when she's in trouble. If it's truly OK for a secret to be given away when someone's in trouble, such a scenario will prove it.

Or one scenario where Clark is in trouble and Lana splits Clark´s secret to protect him. I´m sure that everybody would tell that Lana is great and she had no option.

BTW there´s people that said that Oliver doesn´t trust Lois. Maybe you should read the Justin´s interview that Craig did.

K-SITE: Do you think Oliver could trust Lois with his secret?

JH: I think that he can. I don't think that's why chooses not to tell her. I think that he chooses not to tell her because he doesn't want to burden her with it. I think it's a sincere thing, too. I think a lot of times in life when we get lied to or we find out that someone's been keeping a secret, if it's someone that you love or someone close to you, usually their intentions were good. You get hurt in the end, it's like a political thing. You try to shield someone from something, and they end up finding out, and they kind of feel bad that you never told them in the first place and they feel betrayed, but the trust is not the issue. I think the issue is he doesn't want to burden her with that

kiariclois

01-20-2007, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by celita

BTW there´s people that said that Oliver doesn´t trust Lois. Maybe you should read the Justin´s interview that Craig did.

I believe he said that he trust Lois... He said it was more about doesn't want to burden her...

Originally posted by xrayvision

The only secret Clark is rightfully allowed to give away is his own. Him telling Chloe in Arrival was a great idea. But somewhere along the way, they came up with an unwritten law that Chloe has to know everyone's secret.

I second that...

Originally posted by xrayvision

If they wanted to add a female to the Boys Club, it should have been one of the superpowered persuasion.

I believe if there's no internet, she'll be useless...

jaime,oburg

01-20-2007, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
Y'know what? I'm not arguing it any more. I disagree with all of you who feel it was the wrong thing to do. I'm just glad Chloe was written so well in this episode and they had a female voice to add to the boy's club. Disagree with how they went about it (I disagree with that disagreement) but it's over and done now, and I'm glad it happened. Plus it gave Bart some fun moments with Chloe at the end.

I hear ya MD, I gave up a long time ago when I decided that I was just going to agree to disagree. I understand that Clark didn't have a right to dishonor the Superhero code of ethics, but felt that when he truely believed there was no other option and felt his friend would die by keeping secrets then that justified his actions. I loved that now Clark knew what it was like to have to keep a secret for someone else and the dilemma he faced. I was also happy that SDK actually gave us an explaination as how he came to his decision with the line sometimes only keeping secrets hurts the ones you care about. I didn't see any of the JL members looking stupid just because Chloe was helping them. Chloe was written well and didn't undermine or outshine anyone. I'm proud that a female was represented. Shout out to SDK for that too. But everyone just sees everything differently. So you're right. Can everyone just agree to disagree, hmmmm.......well if we did that then we wouldn't enjoy the message board so much!:rotfl:

ISUZU

01-20-2007, 09:18 PM

I find this debate rather strange. Chloe already knows who is who - the only one he revealed was Bart. He had no choice - Clark knew he was mixed up with Lex and therefore realised he could not waste anytime.

Deana

01-20-2007, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by ISUZU
I find this debate rather strange. Chloe already knows who is who - the only one he revealed was Bart. He had no choice - Clark knew he was mixed up with Lex and therefore realised he could not waste anytime. Some people believe differently. Clark took the easy way out by having Chloe do everything, by doing the UnSuper hero thing of telling Bart's secret.

If I didn't know that Clark investigates things, I would let it go. If I didn't know Clark knows how to use cpu's I'd let it go. If I didn't know that Clark had a Super Hero friend who owed him one for tricking his girlfriend, I'd let it go.

It was so many avenues to go down, but they chose to make Clark look really bad.

I even understand they wanted their created character right into the thick of things, but do not do it at the expense of the future Superman.

He was my favorite hero before this show, now he isn't looking so good. Reckoning and Justice are glaring blows to his character.

kiariclois

01-20-2007, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by ISUZU
I find this debate rather strange. Chloe already knows who is who - the only one he revealed was Bart. He had no choice - Clark knew he was mixed up with Lex and therefore realised he could not waste anytime.

Yes, she already knows... But not because Clark told her about it... and yes, He had choices...

celita

01-20-2007, 09:35 PM

If we didn't know that Clark will be a reporter in the future, I would let it go. It´s not like if superman it´s meant to be a doctor or, i don´t know,... a singer.

lastdaughterofkrypton

01-21-2007, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by ISUZU
I find this debate rather strange. Chloe already knows who is who - the only one he revealed was Bart. He had no choice - Clark knew he was mixed up with Lex and therefore realised he could not waste anytime.

Indeed Chloe knew about Victor Stone for the details that Lana and Clark gave to him and Clark told her about AC as well so is not the first time that Chloe confides another hero's secret to Chloe but people are complaining in this one solely...hmmm. Is just a coincidence with the fact that this time she shined and was a central character because if her knowledge?:rolleyes:

Muse25

01-21-2007, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by Kal-ed
Do you remember back in the early seasons, when Clark and Chloe investigated together, that was fun, the looked up for things in the internet (together) no hacking into supereduper firewalled databases, and they also had a lot of field investigation. But going back to the computer, I remember they BOTH read what ever info was on screen and started brain storming, coming up with the answeres TOGETHER, in those scene Chloe looked like a smart and intuitive reporter, but so did Clark, now Clark just stands next to Chloe waiting to get an answer.

I do remember when Clark and Chloe found out answers together. That's why it's so heartbreaking now because your right it seems all he does is stand next to Chloe waiting for her to figure it out and then tell him and then he goes and saves the day.

(not in reference to the post above) Now the question of Clark telling Chloe Bart's secret. I am not upset with him for that because he and Bart needed her help. What was she suppose to do say "Sorry can't help you there." Plus she acknowledged that she understood he needed to keep it a secret. Now if Clark just came out with the secret out of the blue then I would be a little angry with clark for spilling but since he didn't then I can forgive Clark esepcially considering that there was no time to discuss whether spilling was a good idea or not. Bart was in danger and needed help.

celita

01-21-2007, 11:42 AM

Indeed Chloe knew about Victor Stone for the details that Lana and Clark gave to him and Clark told her about AC as well so is not the first time that Chloe confides another hero's secret to Chloe but people are complaining in this one solely...hmmm. Is just a coincidence with the fact that this time she shined and was a central character because if her knowledge?

No, I hated when he told about AC´s powers too. He had no right to do that either. The only thing he knew about him is that AC saved Lois´s life, there was NO REASON to spil that secret either. But i was hoping that Clark would learn in all this time. Now seems he is unable to learn anything if it´s not about him.

lastdaughterofkrypton

01-21-2007, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by celita
No, I hated when he told about AC´s powers too. He had no right to do that either. The only thing he knew about him is that AC saved Lois´s life, there was NO REASON to spil that secret either. But i was hoping that Clark would learn in all this time. Now seems he is unable to learn anything if it´s not about him.

Ah you see YOURS really had nothing to do with Chloe knowing but Clark needing to keep his mouth shut. I disagree with that because I think Chloe's works better when having all the information at hand, including superpowers, but at least I have no problem with you complain...I can't say the same for others though :rolleyes:

celita

01-21-2007, 12:08 PM

Are you really ok with that?, the guy thinks the only secret that must be keeped is his. What the hell he thinks he is?. He is like Lana with her "oh Clark trust me, you doesn´t have to keep any secret to me" but she doesn´t tell him about the ship, the stones or the death of Jason´s mother. That´s the reason i hate Lana, and Clark is doing the same, AGAIN. :mad: Bloody BDA.

Chloe didn´t need to know Bart´s secret, Clark could say "i need your help a friend of mine is in trouble but i can´t tell you who is him" Chloe would understand it, they had the same chat in Hydro about "it wasn´t my secret to tell" about Lana´s baby. And yes, maybe have all the dates helped Chloe´s job, but know the truth would help to avoid Lana´s bad choises like be with Lex. I´m not a Clana fan at all by the way. But i trully believe that Lana knowing the truth would be a lot more likeable to me.

xrayvision

01-21-2007, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by lastdaughterofkrypton
Ah you see YOURS really had nothing to do with Chloe knowing but Clark needing to keep his mouth shut. I disagree with that because I think Chloe's works better when having all the information at hand, including superpowers, but at least I have no problem with you complain...I can't say the same for others though :rolleyes:

What I'm about to say is somewhat off topic to the thread subject, but is definitely related to it because of how Clark telling Chloe Bart's secret was used in Justice.

Would you like a Superman who, before he goes off to save anyone, goes to Chloe to find people in trouble? And if he (on his own) does find someone telling him that a friend of theirs is missing, for him to fly to the DP, get changed into his reporter attire, ask Chloe for help, and then get changed again and fly to the rescue? Would you like to see a Superman like that in the comics, this show, or in the movies?

I sure as hell wouldn't. That would be the biggest disgrace to Superman EVER & the most pathetic portrayal of him. The guy who died fighting Doomsday needing someone to hold his hand to do his hero work?! It's no wonder DC doesn't want Bruce Wayne or Wonder Woman on this show.

lastdaughterofkrypton

01-21-2007, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by xrayvision
What I'm about to say is somewhat off topic to the thread subject, but is definitely related to it because of how Clark telling Chloe Bart's secret was used in Justice.

Would you like a Superman who, before he goes off to save anyone, goes to Chloe to find people in trouble? And if he (on his own) does find someone telling him that a friend of theirs is missing, for him to fly to the DP, get changed into his reporter attire, ask Chloe for help, and then get changed again and fly to the rescue? Would you like to see a Superman like that in the comics, this show, or in the movies?

I sure as hell wouldn't. That would be the biggest disgrace to Superman EVER & the most pathetic portrayal of him. The guy who died fighting Doomsday needing someone to hold his hand to do his hero work?! It's no wonder DC doesn't want Bruce Wayne or Wonder Woman on this show.

I'm not sure if you noticed that Clark was with the guys ready to do the saving when they spotted some ingredient needed and he though that Chloe could do that job for them. And he didn't drag Chloe with him to look for Bart didn't he? Clark was smart he saw somehting that another person from his experience could do good and fast and went to Chloe....Don't you remember that Superman goes to Dr. Hamilton for scientific stuff and to other hero's when something needs to be done that he can or the other one can do faster? I don't think Superman ever was a person that will not try to find the best alternative to save a person in this case letting Chloe in was the best alternative for him, you might consider his judgement not a good one but Clark is not the same guy he was before and that is a good thing for a man that is going to need to rely on other heros on the future.
I really thing that is not going on like that and will not be on the future

Originally posted by celita
Are you really ok with that?, the guy thinks the only secret that must be keeped is his. What the hell he thinks he is?. He is like Lana with her "oh Clark trust me, you doesn´t have to keep any secret to me" but she doesn´t tell him about the ship, the stones or the death of Jason´s mother. That´s the reason i hate Lana, and Clark is doing the same, AGAIN. :mad: Bloody BDA.

Chloe didn´t need to know Bart´s secret, Clark could say "i need your help a friend of mine is in trouble but i can´t tell you who is him" Chloe would understand it, they had the same chat in Hydro about "it wasn´t my secret to tell" about Lana´s baby. And yes, maybe have all the dates helped Chloe´s job, but know the truth would help to avoid Lana´s bad choises like be with Lex. I´m not a Clana fan at all by the way. But i trully believe that Lana knowing the truth would be a lot more likeable to me.

Saving Lana from herself is not a good reason to tell her anything if at her age she can't spot a good guy from a bad one...Well a lot of women are like that ntohing really makes her change their hearth choices.

celita

01-21-2007, 12:59 PM

Saving Lana from herself is not a good reason to tell her anything if at her age she can't spot a good guy from a bad one...Well a lot of women are like that ntohing really makes her change their hearth choices.

In fact I was thinking about tell her "your boyfriend is possesed by an alien terrorist that want to destroy our world, and I´m an alien called Kal El and I must to kill him to protect The Earth" instead of letting her to be with Zod without the information that would help her a lot , tell Lana "I´m an alien don´t sleep with Lex" it´s not something that i really care about".

I didn´t say that I wanted That Clark would tell Lana his secret in that moment at all. In fact i didn´t, but, if he thought that THAT wasn´t the rigth time to tell Lana his secret. Why Bart kidnaping in Luthorcorp is?

xrayvision

01-21-2007, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by lastdaughterofkrypton
I'm not sure if you noticed that Clark was with the guys ready to do the saving when they spotted some ingredient needed and he though that Chloe could do that job for them.

And that is the key line. At that point, he didn't even bother searching for Bart himself. He didn't even know that Bart was kidnapped yet at that time. He outed Bart's secret without even starting to look for him and when he would be super pissed at anyone who did the same to him. Imagine how pissed he would have got in Splinter if Chloe exposed his secret to Lana and gave her kryptonite to hold Clark down until help showed up. Chloe did not expose his secret and instead told nobody and he almost killed Lana had Milton Fine not stopped him. So if Clark was right to tell Chloe in Justice, then Chloe was wrong not to tell Lana in Splinter, since Lana was the only one Clark trusted in Splinter up to a certain time & could have stopped things before they got way too out of hand.

Originally posted by lastdaughterofkrypton
And he didn't drag Chloe with him to look for Bart didn't he? Clark was smart he saw somehting that another person from his experience could do good and fast and went to Chloe

Well, I consider this to be lazy not smart. And it was a 180 from how he was being developed in every other season 6 episode when he deliberately left Chloe out of his heroics and secret IDs of heroes like the GA. Rage is one such episode where Ollie was in danger while taking those drugs. Yet Clark helped him without exposing his secret.

Originally posted by lastdaughterofkrypton
Don't you remember that Superman goes to Dr. Hamilton for scientific stuff and to other hero's when something needs to be done that he can or the other one can do faster?

Yeah, I remember, but the thing I keep in mind is the frequency at which he goes to Dr. Hamilton in the comics vs. the frequency he goes to Chloe in this show. If he went to another hero, I wouldn't mind as much, because Justice should have been the episode in which the heroes shined without any help. So if he went to someone else who was a hero, that would not have been so bad.

Originally posted by lastdaughterofkrypton
I don't think Superman ever was a person that will not try to find the best alternative to save a person in this case letting Chloe in was the best alternative for him, you might consider his judgement not a good one but Clark is not the same guy he was before and that is a good thing for a man that is going to need to rely on other heros on the future.
I really thing that is not going on like that and will not be on the future

I don't believe I ever read a Justice League issue where Superman outed a fellow hero's secret ID to a human non-member. The fact that Chloe knows so many secrets & is relied so heavily on by Clark will probably mean that she will die or go insane soon. As a Chloe fan myself, this is what I did not want to see a few seasons ago (especially after seeing Scare), but now that it is casting the #1 star of the show, Clark, in such a bad light, I think it may be a necessary evil.

Someone else posted that in early seasons how Clark & Chloe worked together on stories and theories of freaks and such without any of the BS hacking, reverse engineering, stealth operations. I sorely miss those days. That is how the Clark-Chloe friendship was meant to be. It's a shame how badly they distorted it.

lastdaughterofkrypton

01-21-2007, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by xrayvision
And that is the key line. At that point, he didn't even bother searching for Bart himself. He didn't even know that Bart was kidnapped yet at that time. He outed Bart's secret without even starting to look for him and when he would be super pissed at anyone who did the same to him. Imagine how pissed he would have got in Splinter if Chloe exposed his secret to Lana and gave her kryptonite to hold Clark down until help showed up. Chloe did not expose his secret and instead told nobody and he almost killed Lana had Milton Fine not stopped him. So if Clark was right to tell Chloe in Justice, then Chloe was wrong not to tell Lana in Splinter, since Lana was the only one Clark trusted in Splinter up to a certain time & could have stopped things before they got way too out of hand.
Well since Lana was the only one that he trusted then she was safe and in not need to be used as held down and if she would had confirmed Clark suspiciouns that she will out him she would had end up with her little blond neck broken and that would had been worse.

Well, I consider this to be lazy not smart. And it was a 180 from how he was being developed in every other season 6 episode when he deliberately left Chloe out of his heroics and secret IDs of heroes like the GA. Rage is one such episode where Ollie was in danger while taking those drugs. Yet Clark helped him without exposing his secret.

I think that in that episode that he didn't though Chloe help will need the outing of the secret identity you have to tale in account that Chloe figured it out: if superpowered persons were involved and Bart was involved then Bart was also superpowered so he just went to the point

Yeah, I remember, but the thing I keep in mind is the frequency at which he goes to Dr. Hamilton in the comics vs. the frequency he goes to Chloe in this show.

Well comics are infinity so his visiting other people for help could be less frequent...It also depends on the title of Superman that you are reading and the author's vision of him.

If he went to another hero, I wouldn't mind as much, because Justice should have been the episode in which the heroes shined without any help. So if he went to someone else who was a hero, that would not have been so bad.

Err. do you realize that Chloe is the heroin of the show don't you?

I don't believe I ever read a Justice League issue where Superman outed a fellow hero's secret ID to a human non-member. The fact that Chloe knows so many secrets & is relied so heavily on by Clark will probably mean that she will die or go insane soon. As a Chloe fan myself, this is what I did not want to see a few seasons ago (especially after seeing Scare), but now that it is casting the #1 star of the show, Clark, in such a bad light, I think it may be a necessary evil.

Her destiny is at the top of DP and at Clark's side or die...The insanity won't happen

Someone else posted that in early seasons how Clark & Chloe worked together on stories and theories of freaks and such without any of the BS hacking, reverse engineering, stealth operations. I sorely miss those days. That is how the Clark-Chloe friendship was meant to be. It's a shame how badly they distorted it.

Again to each its own... you might have a problem with Chloe or the fact that she is a female or the fact that Clark is not alone, but the point is that Chloe help was needed and Clark thouh she will be useful to the team and I happen to agree.

Originally posted by celita
In fact I was thinking about tell her "your boyfriend is possesed by an alien terrorist that want to destroy our world, and I´m an alien called Kal El and I must to kill him to protect The Earth" instead of letting her to be with Zod without the information that would help her a lot , tell Lana "I´m an alien don´t sleep with Lex" it´s not something that i really care about".

I didn´t say that I wanted That Clark would tell Lana his secret in that moment at all. In fact i didn´t, but, if he thought that THAT wasn´t the rigth time to tell Lana his secret. Why Bart kidnaping in Luthorcorp is?

Well I see your point but again remember that Clark doens't trust the squirrel but he trusts Chloe. I think that is why things got played like that.
You can also fanwank that another reason for the outing is that if Bart likes Chloe so much she could brake up with Jimmy and start dating Bart and she will end up in the same position that Lois is and Lana was so he kind of gave her knowlegde before she entered in that situation and could make an honest choice...Again fankwanking because is interesting.