About Superman

[Martin le Magicien]

I always thought of Superman as someone who will obey the law, even if it doesn't suit his own desires, hence why he doesn't just arrest Lex Luthor because he has no real evidences of his crimes, even if he know he did it.

I was kind of surprised when Clark went above the law to protect his little mexican friend. I thought he would do something more of sending him back to Mexico, and doind everything in his power to speed up the paperwork process, and acting as a messenger between him and his mom meanwhile. I mean, Martha is a senator, she probably could have done something legally to speed up the process. Do you guys think it's something Superman would do ? I'm just not sure he'd lie to a police officer and trash the law like that.

Plus, at the speed he was running with the boy in his arms, wouldn't he be hurt ? The little guy isn't invulnerable, and the air friction would have probably burn his skin. Is someone here good with physics who can answer that ?

[InLove_with_Chloe]

Originally posted by Martin le Magicien
Plus, at the speed he was running with the boy in his arms, wouldn't he be hurt ? The little guy isn't invulnerable, and the air friction would have probably burn his skin. Is someone here good with physics who can answer that ?
I dunno. But it has occurred to me in the past that Clark doesn't carry a lot of people when he runs super-speed, that's true. Maybe because it's too dangerous...
It's obvious that now that our BDA is getting a little older, he also gets more careless, IMO...
:rolleyes:

[Luthorism]

What is his speed?? 30 mph?? 50 mph??

I don't think there will be a problem..50 mph is nothing.

[Bandit06]

it'll be quite fast since everythin really slows down when he goes into superspeed and no-one can see him...

[Martin le Magicien]

Originally posted by Luthorism
What is his speed?? 30 mph?? 50 mph??

I don't think there will be a problem..50 mph is nothing.

He ran fast enough, at least at the beginning, to not be seen by the human eye. That's pretty fast...

[ERIC524892]

It's MUCH faster than 50 mph. And before anyone pulls the "it's only television, it doesn't need to be realistic" line, even Lois & Clark (a show constantly dealing with time travel, etc) wouldn't have Clark moving at superspeed with Lois. He said she'd disintegrate (sp?).

As for the law, well, Clark is still maturing. Very few 20-year-olds are mature enough to completely obey the law. And he's not really "Superman" until his late 20s anyway. Despite Brandon Routh looking no older than ME...

[Honey45]

Originally posted by Luthorism
What is his speed?? 30 mph?? 50 mph??

I don't think there will be a problem..50 mph is nothing.


He travels much faster than that.
To put it in relative terms, you can see a car travelling at 50 mph. So Clark is running at speeds faster than a jet breaking the sound barrier.

(How fast that really is? I don't know)

[InLove_with_Chloe]

Originally posted by HeddyH
...you can see a car travelling at 50 mph.
Thank god we can!!!
:eek:

[jesustlife]

The Earth moves really fast, but since we are in it, like inside a car when it's moving, we dont feel it. Maybe if you hop into Superman, like hopin into a car, makes you move at his speed without even feeling it.

[Martin le Magicien]

Except you're not in Superman but on or besides him. So I'm not sure....

[HalJordan4184]

Also, is a gradual acceleration to fifty miles an hour. Get hit by a car at fifty, and thats not even close to what it owuld be if clark just grabs you and takes off at mach two. Clark just grabbing a kid and superspeeding away, is the same as getting his by a car moving that fast. Your body doesn't handle rapid acceleration very well, your internal organs tend to liquify, and bones simply shatter to dust.

[Martin le Magicien]

Hey Hal, I wanted your opinion too about Clark breaking the law. As far as I can remember, it's not Superman type to do that. What do you think ?

[alienkinfolk]

Originally posted by InLove_with_Chloe
I dunno. But it has occurred to me in the past that Clark doesn't carry a lot of people when he runs super-speed, that's true. Maybe because it's too dangerous...
It's obvious that now that our BDA is getting a little older, he also gets more careless, IMO...
:rolleyes:

I agree he doesn't really run with 2 many people.Alot of things in SV i let slide just for the sake of the story.
As for Supes helping an illegal Mexican, I'd like to think he would take every situation on a case by case basis. This boy needed immediate help-can't always follow the law-especially when people's lives are at stake.
And Clark going thru paperwork? is that really what a hero does?

[j-kent]

Originally posted by Martin le Magicien
I always thought of Superman as someone who will obey the law, even if it doesn't suit his own desires, hence why he doesn't just arrest Lex Luthor because he has no real evidences of his crimes, even if he know he did it.

I was kind of surprised when Clark went above the law to protect his little mexican friend. I thought he would do something more of sending him back to Mexico, and doind everything in his power to speed up the paperwork process, and acting as a messenger between him and his mom meanwhile. I mean, Martha is a senator, she probably could have done something legally to speed up the process. Do you guys think it's something Superman would do ? I'm just not sure he'd lie to a police officer and trash the law like that.

Plus, at the speed he was running with the boy in his arms, wouldn't he be hurt ? The little guy isn't invulnerable, and the air friction would have probably burn his skin. Is someone here good with physics who can answer that ?

Superman is not a law enforcer. Superman upholds morality. It is very true to say just because it is the law doesn't mean it is moral. In this he found the greater good. He is not the super police, but a protector and a defender of all the people of earth. His judgement is not based on just American laws- it is based on universal morality as well.

Also to note, he did explain his situation that he understood Javier wanting to be with his mom. Part of Superman's character is also having great empathy.

[alienkinfolk]

^^ well said
Morality being key
And taking care of planet Earth

[j-kent]

Originally posted by HeddyH
He travels much faster than that.
To put it in relative terms, you can see a car travelling at 50 mph. So Clark is running at speeds faster than a jet breaking the sound barrier.

(How fast that really is? I don't know)

Speeds above approximately 770 mph is said to be breaking the speed barrier as well as being "supersonic".

[boogiebear]

Originally posted by Martin le Magicien
I was kind of surprised when Clark went above the law to protect his little mexican friend. I thought he would do something more of sending him back to Mexico, and doind everything in his power to speed up the paperwork process, and acting as a messenger between him and his mom meanwhile. I mean, Martha is a senator, she probably could have done something legally to speed up the process. Do you guys think it's something Superman would do ? I'm just not sure he'd lie to a police officer and trash the law like that.


Seeing that he was investigating a crime the boy told him about, and that Clark is an illegal alien himself, I really understood it. Even the US has this nice statute that states if someone who is not in this country legally, could be granted permission to stay here, if they testify in a case,or are needed as a witness.

[HalJordan4184]

Actually, Superman is a law enforcer. He is a recognized law enforcement agent not only in Metropolis, but across the entire US, and has permission from all the countries in the UN in the comics, to enforce their laws as well, and have free reign to come in and out of their countries as he sees fit. However, as a law enforcement officer, he will also work in the confines of the law, to help out people he thinks don't deserve to be punished. Discretion is widely used, and Superman in most cases can talk people out of being tried and punished, and the DA will drop the case.

Also, Superman very heavily believes in the law. If it's not right, he's a firm believer it needs to be followed anyway, until the proper actions taken are taken to correct it. He makes no special leniency for himself or others. Even he has a green card in the comics, as "Superman" is an alien without citizenship, so he was granted it by the US. He has a quote that goes something like, even I have to follow the laws of this country, and world, just like any other citizen.

SO i guess that means I'm not all about him saving Javier in the way he did. Superman would recognize the need for obeying the law, while still working with his mom or someone else, to fix hat he sees is the problem.

Also, he doesn't uphold morality as he sees it. From his point of view, there is a right and a wrong in this uinverse, and the two aren't that hard to tell apart. He does what he feels is right, even if other's or the populace in general find it the immoral thing.

Oh, and depending on sea level the speed of sound changes. The USAF generally accepts around 740-760 miles an hour as mach.

[That Canadian Guy]

So just out of curiosity, what is Superman's maximum speed? Does anyone know? Do they ever mention it in the comics? I wouldn't know because I've never read them unforunately.

I mean he must have a limit right? :D

[j-kent]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Actually, Superman is a law enforcer. He is a recognized law enforcement agent not only in Metropolis, but across the entire US, and has permission from all the countries in the UN in the comics, to enforce their laws as well, and have free reign to come in and out of their countries as he sees fit. However, as a law enforcement officer, he will also work in the confines of the law, to help out people he thinks don't deserve to be punished. Discretion is widely used, and Superman in most cases can talk people out of being tried and punished, and the DA will drop the case.

Also, Superman very heavily believes in the law. If it's not right, he's a firm believer it needs to be followed anyway, until the proper actions taken are taken to correct it. He makes no special leniency for himself or others. Even he has a green card in the comics, as "Superman" is an alien without citizenship, so he was granted it by the US. He has a quote that goes something like, even I have to follow the laws of this country, and world, just like any other citizen.

SO i guess that means I'm not all about him saving Javier in the way he did. Superman would recognize the need for obeying the law, while still working with his mom or someone else, to fix hat he sees is the problem.

Also, he doesn't uphold morality as he sees it. From his point of view, there is a right and a wrong in this uinverse, and the two aren't that hard to tell apart. He does what he feels is right, even if other's or the populace in general find it the immoral thing.

Oh, and depending on sea level the speed of sound changes. The USAF generally accepts around 740-760 miles an hour as mach.

here comes the guy who thinks he lives in the DC Universe!...please do not attempt to "counteract" my word (to make me appear incompetent). I only offer my opinion and own knowledge. If you'd like to add to my contribution, please do not come rebuttaling but with welcoming reply as most others do.

Clearly you had not read I said he takes a sense of not only american laws but a universal morality as well, which means you just repeated everything I said. Also to note, our discussion also take in account Clark at his age and his situation thus his sense of the greater good. Maybe when he's become Superman then we can talk endlessly about his sense of justice...


Also, the speed of sound given was exactly within a general average atmospheric condition. From physics class to be more precise, the speed of sound changes accordingly to mostly temperature change. The speed of sound will decrease the higher you go in altitude because air temperature is colder.

Opinions can still be exchanged with respect of other posters...

[Martin le Magicien]

I think Clark may use both, his own morality code and the law of a country. He uses his morality code to determine if the law of a place is right, and if it is then he will fight for it no matter what.

He accepted the USA laws, thus obeying them. But he didn't for instance feel that the law on Apocalyps was right, so he fighted it to bring in a set of rules he feels are moral.

But in Subterranean, I didn't feel like the situation was that urgent concerning his mother. I mean, to investigate a mass murderer okay, but he could have seen his mother later.... I don't think there was such a rush, it's not like he was in danger.

Of course, Clark isn't Superman yet, but he's almost as old as me, and I know pretty well how I feel about the law and where I stand about it. Clark dont just become Superman because he turns thirty.

Not to mention, all the time Clark has been breaking and entering, enough that it's ridiculous :lol:

[Kyogre]

i just have to say that smallville has really strayed away from the storyline of the original mythos that it is really unrecognizable
i just wish almiles stayed a little bit more true to the mythos
i mean lex already suspects something bout clark is different and he could easily link ck as superman in the future due to these factors

[wraith808]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Actually, Superman is a law enforcer. He is a recognized law enforcement agent not only in Metropolis, but across the entire US, and has permission from all the countries in the UN in the comics, to enforce their laws as well, and have free reign to come in and out of their countries as he sees fit.

What source do you have for this? As far as i know, he has permission to enter principalities as a citizen of the earth instead of a particular country, but not actual law enforcement powers. He is not a "super-policeman", which is what this would make him, but a superman, exercising his rights as a man to help his fellow man.

[jimmyolsenblues]

Great point.
I think the same thing,
but clark ain't superman ........yet.

[j-kent]

Originally posted by wraith808
What source do you have for this? As far as i know, he has permission to enter principalities as a citizen of the earth instead of a particular country, but not actual law enforcement powers. He is not a "super-policeman", which is what this would make him, but a superman, exercising his rights as a man to help his fellow man.

truly just great words spoken wraith

[WalterK]

Superman is supposed to be an inspiring ideal to the viewers, so the heroic acts have to be kept simple. Getting too involved with the gritty details of real life does not work well with Superman, else you have people wondering if Superman would really do such and such. I do not think this episode was a case where the right thing is significantly different than following the law. The INS was not intent on keeping the boy away from his mother, and his mother could have reunited with her son at any time if it was really that important. I also think that if Clark had turned the boy over to the INS immediately, they would have tried to contact the boy's mother since she was in a nearby town. And Clark could still leave the boy in the custody of the INS while he speeded off to find the mother. But overall, it was a understandable and minor infraction of the law on Clark's part. It was not really that heroic, it was just a chance for the writer to raise the immigration issue.

[That Canadian Guy]

So umm yeah nobody answered my question and I'm really curious, and don't want to start up another thread for it :p You people seem very knowledgeable when it comes to anything Superman, anyone have a clue?
Originally posted by That Canadian Guy
So just out of curiosity, what is Superman's maximum speed? Does anyone know? Do they ever mention it in the comics? I wouldn't know because I've never read them unforunately.

I mean he must have a limit right? :D

[Martin le Magicien]

Originally posted by That Canadian Guy
So umm yeah nobody answered my question and I'm really curious, and don't want to start up another thread for it :p You people seem very knowledgeable when it comes to anything Superman, anyone have a clue?

As far as I know he can reach almost the speed of light.

[wraith808]

^^ No, post-Crisis, no one can break the speed of light, and the Flash is still faster on the ground than Superman, so I'd say considerably less than the speed of light.

[darkkrypton81]

Besides upholding the laws of the world. Superman is fluent in every language on Earth. It was sad to see that Clark couldn't speak Spanish. Of course he's not Superman yet, but he better do his studies with Jor-El soon.

[HotStudsSuccess]

Originally posted by wraith808
^^ No, post-Crisis, no one can break the speed of light, and the Flash is still faster on the ground than Superman, so I'd say considerably less than the speed of light.

Let's see the Flash try to leap off the ground and see who wins?

[wraith808]

It's not about who wins, it's about superman's maximum speed. The Flash is the fastest being in the DC universe (along with reverse flash, but AFAIK he's still dead). Superman, is therefore slower.

So, by logic, if the Flash's maximum speed is close to C (the speed of light), then Superman's speed is quite a bit less than C, since if the Flash puts on the speed, he leaves Superman in the dust- exactly as shown in the last part of Run.

[Martin le Magicien]

Originally posted by wraith808
It's not about who wins, it's about superman's maximum speed. The Flash is the fastest being in the DC universe (along with reverse flash, but AFAIK he's still dead). Superman, is therefore slower.

So, by logic, if the Flash's maximum speed is close to C (the speed of light), then Superman's speed is quite a bit less than C, since if the Flash puts on the speed, he leaves Superman in the dust- exactly as shown in the last part of Run.

That's why I said almost the speed the light. As far as I know, the actual Flash can now run faster than speed of light. But those are both facts I'm not sure of.

What I'm certain of though, is that in Smallville, Bart leaves Clark "in the dust", only because Clark is still a teen. When he will be thirty-something, he will run a lot much faster, and the Flash isn't gonna outrun him that much.

[wraith808]

But what I'm saying is Post-Crisis, noone can break the speed of light. It's a hard barrier. The Flash cannot run faster than the speed of light. Superman is quite slower than the Flash. Superman therefore has a maximum speed of quite a bit less than the speed of light.

[HalJordan4184]

Post Crisis Wally West broke the speed of light two or three times, and entered the speed force.

Superman however, is the only being in the DCU outside of Wally, Bart, and Jay in his prime, that can even approach that barrier. While Superman can get close to lightspeed, in a race, the Flash, and the other top tier speedsters, still have him on acceleration, and maneuverability. Superman can get close to light speed, but he can't turn on a dime, or react very well, because even he is flying at a speed his perceptions can't cope with too well. However, the Flash's body, and powers, are specifically designed SO THAT he can cope with the speed.

[wraith808]

^^ DC retcons their comics so much it's hard to keep up. Wally can now apparently surpass the speed of light. But even when he couldn't, he was faster than the current superman. However, Silver Age superman was apparently faster than the current superman, and it is that superman that is close to the Flash in speed... at least according to the most up to date information I'm able to find on him. But add to that the fact that every writer puts his own spin on Superman (with some saying he has no limits other than the ones he imposes on himself), and this question can't really be definitively answered.

[Martin le Magicien]

Well, we can at least know for sure that the Flash is faster than Superman, and that if Clark pick ups Arive at that speed, the poor boy will implode and liquefiate while his skin is burning and being ripped off his bones.

And I still think Surperman or Clark wouldn't break the law if there is not lives at stake, and will certainly not do so just to fit his own desires.

[jesustlife]

Superman is an example to us all. But he is also a liar. Period. And he turned back time, something that was forbiden. "It is forbiden". -Jor-El

[Brainiac06]

It can be done. It all depends how fast he was running, which we don't know but I bet Clark does. I also think he knew how fast to go so he wouldn't hurt Javier. I don't think he was running that fast to the point where he would kill him. Just fast enough to get him to a safe place.

[wraith808]

Originally posted by jesustlife
But he is also a liar. Period.

He is not a liar. Period. In fact, other than his one secret, he tells no untruths.

[Martin le Magicien]

Originally posted by wraith808
He is not a liar. Period. In fact, other than his one secret, he tells no untruths.

How many lies do you exactly need to tell before you're a liar ?

What about when Pete stole one of Lexs car, and then Lex asked Clark about it, and Clark didn't tell him it was Pete ? What about all those time he pretended not to love Lana, while he was indeed in love ? He could have easily told her, without revealing his secret. Ah yes, the need to protect her. Like she wasn't in danger every week anyway.

Saying the you never lie, when you have a secret identity, is already one big lie.

Clark lies. He just never do with the intention of hurting someone, or to hide something he's not proud of.

[RedKalEL]

Originally posted by ERIC524892
It's MUCH faster than 50 mph. And before anyone pulls the "it's only television, it doesn't need to be realistic" line, even Lois & Clark (a show constantly dealing with time travel, etc) wouldn't have Clark moving at superspeed with Lois. He said she'd disintegrate (sp?).

As for the law, well, Clark is still maturing. Very few 20-year-olds are mature enough to completely obey the law. And he's not really "Superman" until his late 20s anyway. Despite Brandon Routh looking no older than ME...

that make sense but don't forget in lois and clark he's full superman so he can fly but in SV superspeed is his best needs of transportation with people

[wraith808]

Originally posted by Martin le Magicien
How many lies do you exactly need to tell before you're a liar ?

What about when Pete stole one of Lexs car, and then Lex asked Clark about it, and Clark didn't tell him it was Pete ? What about all those time he pretended not to love Lana, while he was indeed in love ? He could have easily told her, without revealing his secret. Ah yes, the need to protect her. Like she wasn't in danger every week anyway.

Saying the you never lie, when you have a secret identity, is already one big lie.

Clark lies. He just never do with the intention of hurting someone, or to hide something he's not proud of.

*Superman* is not a liar. I never said anything about Clark in Smallville. Those are two separate people. And the poster I was responding to specifically said Superman.

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

For what I recall, when Superman holds onto someone his "aura" encompasses them also, allowing them to "fly" with him for example and, I assume, allowing him to moved them at super speed without their heads being left behind.

In regards to Smallville Clark, who the F knows ?

As for upholding the Law.

We are getting into a whole huge grey area in regards to Superman, heck most of what he does can be viewed as obstrution of police work !

[Martin le Magicien]

Originally posted by wraith808
*Superman* is not a liar. I never said anything about Clark in Smallville. Those are two separate people. And the poster I was responding to specifically said Superman.

You mean that in general Superman and Clark are not the same person ? Because they are, :D If one lies, the other one does too.

Or did you mean that Superman from the movie isn't a liar, and Clark of Smallville is ?

Because my post was adressing both. The second part of my post was referring to something Superman said in the first movie.

"I never lie". Huh, yes you do. Saying that is pretty arrogant when you have a secret identity.

In SR, he lies again, to Jimmy and Lois, when he says he was visiting the wolrd for those 5 years. As Superman, it takes him a while before he says where he was for those 5 years. I'm not even sure he even tells Lois he was searching fro Krypton.

Again, the guy is a liar. But I do understand why, and I can easily forgive him. But that makes him a liar anyway.

[wraith808]

Not really an obstruction- as long as he stays out of the way of the authorities, and does not obstruct ongoing investigations, he's doing what any citizen could do.

As far as his aura, I think it only extends millimeters from his skin... thus affecting his costume. That's the reason his cape gets shredded, but unless he's *really* hurt, his costume stays in one piece.

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

Originally posted by wraith808
Not really an obstruction- as long as he stays out of the way of the authorities, and does not obstruct ongoing investigations, he's doing what any citizen could do.

As far as his aura, I think it only extends millimeters from his skin... thus affecting his costume. That's the reason his cape gets shredded, but unless he's *really* hurt, his costume stays in one piece.

Obstruction is a "grey area" of the law, anything that gets in the "way" of an investigation can be called obstruction and Superman interfering can be viewed as such.
In theory.

As for the aura thing, I realise it only surronds him but I recall reading somewhere that he can "drape" it over someone he is in contact with...don't remember where...anyways it seems to be the only "plausable" explanation as to why people are not killed from the whiplash !

[Martin le Magicien]

Originally posted by Kryptonian-Ronin
anyways it seems to be the only "plausable" explanation as to why people are not killed from the whiplash !

The other being dumb writers :p

But yes, except if his powers changed lately, his aura only extends to his clothes.

[wraith808]

Notice that Superman doesn't interfere with ongoing investigations unless he converses with the officer first in most cases. In most of the cases where he's involved, he's on the scene *first* before there is police involvement.

What obstruction?

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

Originally posted by wraith808
Notice that Superman doesn't interfere with ongoing investigations unless he converses with the officer first in most cases. In most of the cases where he's involved, he's on the scene *first* before there is police involvement.

What obstruction?

Its subjective, my point is that, there is more to upholding the law then turning people in at any given moment.

[wraith808]

More, yes... but not in Superman's case. That's all he really does- he's by no stretch of the imagination an investigator. What Batman does... yes, that's interference. But Superman is pretty much a blunt instrument.

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

Originally posted by wraith808
More, yes... but not in Superman's case. That's all he really does- he's by no stretch of the imagination an investigator. What Batman does... yes, that's interference. But Superman is pretty much a blunt instrument.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. :D

[wraith808]

It appears so :)

[ERIC524892]

Superman does try to obey the law completely, but remember he's Superman because he actually cares about people. He doesn't just stop someone because what they're doing is illegal, ignoring all explanations for their actions.