Should Clark have apologized to Lex? [Archive]

KryptonX81

12-08-2006, 04:46 PM

Now im personally in the group that feels that Lex isnt evil yet, so I may be a bit bias, but I think Clark's actions last night were way out of line.

He comes to Lex's mansion and accuses him of the mass murder of migrant workers, with apsolutly no evidence.

Sure Lex technicly owned the farm, but that has nothing to do with the actions that take place there. Now I dont know that much about farming, but from what I have heard it isnt uncommon for someone to sell a struggling farm to a bigger company, and set up an agreement where they still stay on the land and farm it, but the company collects some of the profits.

Clark didnt have any info or facts connecting the murders to Lex, and he made very severe accusations that turned out to be wrong. So shouldnt he apologize?

meteor

12-08-2006, 04:51 PM

i also think he was outta line with both Lex and Lana.

umm

12-08-2006, 04:56 PM

RedPhoenix23

12-08-2006, 05:19 PM

Exodus2000

12-08-2006, 05:22 PM

I agree, Clark, barging into the mansion(although it did look like he was let in this time) making accusations with no evidence to back it up, seems quite self-rightious. But I guess you can just chalk it up to Clarks growing pangs. But again Lex is right, how many times does he have to tell Clark he's not invited. No really how many??

RedPhoenix23

12-08-2006, 05:27 PM

LOL, it would have been funny if Lex wouldn't have let him in.

Theshadow129x

12-08-2006, 05:29 PM

nah i actually think clark has the right to show a back bone everyonce in a while.

AFriend1979

12-08-2006, 05:31 PM

But in the chat between Lex and his subordinate the farmer was an inmate of 33.1 until he escaped, and the farm again was owned by Lex. Technically he IS responsible. For the most part, the only &*(^(head in this is Lex. He knows Clark cares about Lana and he's only barred him from coming to the mansion because he feels threatened by Lana's still-lingering attachment to Clark.

mobiusklein

12-08-2006, 05:31 PM

Bo Kent apologize, are you kidding me? Where do you think Clark learned his act FROM?

Exodus2000

12-08-2006, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by RedPhoenix23
LOL, it would have been funny if Lex wouldn't have let him in.

Now thats a scene i would have paid money to see......."no no take him away"

RedPhoenix23

12-08-2006, 05:36 PM

In Lex's talk to his subordinate it was made pretty clear that he didn't know the crazy mole man farmer was killing his migrant workers. Lex also barred Clark from the mansion because he's tired of Clark's crap. All Clark does is barge in and yell at Lex and blame all the evils of the world on to him. Lex has not liked this for a long time now and finally had ENOUGH of the crap.

last man of krypton

12-08-2006, 06:32 PM

Granted, Lex was responsible. But Clark handled it in such a shoddy fashion, I sincerely wished I could've apologized to Lex for Clark's behaviour.

impulse110779

12-08-2006, 07:07 PM

out of line come on Lex is evil I don't think he was evil at all with Lex or Lana. I mean come on Lex new what powers that fotw had and more than likely dangerous with the whole lock them up for our safty yea right, he uses them for hios own benefit and did you nit see the last scene come on Lex is EVIL!! and Lana is just going down the wrong path. I swear that half of you don't watch the show or understand it sorry.

KrissO

12-08-2006, 07:25 PM

Ofcouse Clark should have apologized but the writers obviously want a reason to make the Clark and Lex's hate stay, even though... this in my opinion is too exagerated.
As mentioned above Clark accuses Lex of EVERYTHING.
And it's also shame that Lana is pretty involved this, because Lana and Clark wouldn't have any reason to actually hate each other with Lex out of the way.

Surely Lex will become evil, but remember all he ever wanted was for example... Clark's friendship. Clark never opened up to him but started accusing him for everything, right or wrong.
Remember in the old days. Clark kind of kept Lex' good side on the surface, but now the only thing Clark is doing is giving an extra hand on the rope that pulls out Lex's dark side.

Son of Kal-El20

12-08-2006, 07:46 PM

Apologize!!!!! Superman apologize to LEX!!!!!!!!!! BLASPHEMY!!!!!

Should Superman apologize to Lex after he beat him up and threw him off of New Krypton?

I don't know about you guys but there's a time in life when one needs to show a backbone. I'm already mad that Clark didn't tell Lana to get off his farm.

superman_115

12-08-2006, 07:53 PM

What, taking up for Lana and Lex, OMG, I think Clark grew some balls finally or Lana gave them back and now he has some power to tell them off.

I can't wait until he is back on Red K and kicks some ass.

KrissO

12-08-2006, 07:59 PM

Seems like all people want is the Superman suit and red k lol!

RyanStray

12-08-2006, 09:53 PM

He shouldn't apologize for Lex's incompetence as a land owner. When was Lex gonna discover his farm was a cemetary--After half of the Mexican population of North America disappeared??!!

TheSupaMan

12-09-2006, 12:35 AM

Clark and Lex are enemies now. There is no reason for Clark to come back and apologize like a little biatch. Seriously. It wasn't out of line.

superpal1

12-09-2006, 07:50 AM

The final scene proves that Clark was right. He might not have gone about accusing Lex in the right way, but Lex was totally in the wrong. He allowed the farm to stay in operation knowing who and what it was run by. Clark should not apologize. Clark has reasons to not trust Lex anymore and it should be noted that in early seasons, Clark defended a lot of Lex's actions as a good friend should, before he realized that he was blinded by Lex, the way Lana is now.

ragamuffin

12-09-2006, 09:35 AM

I think that tptb have just decided that we need to have a scene with Clark accusing Lex in every episode so that we are sure to understand that Clark and Lex are no longer friends. I personally don't think Clark should have had to apologize to Lex. Especially after finding out that Lex was exploiting Old MacDonald's abilities.

ginnyfan

12-09-2006, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by KryptonX81
Now im personally in the group that feels that Lex isnt evil yet, so I may be a bit bias, but I think Clark's actions last night were way out of line.

He comes to Lex's mansion and accuses him of the mass murder of migrant workers, with apsolutly no evidence.

Sure Lex technicly owned the farm, but that has nothing to do with the actions that take place there. Now I dont know that much about farming, but from what I have heard it isnt uncommon for someone to sell a struggling farm to a bigger company, and set up an agreement where they still stay on the land and farm it, but the company collects some of the profits.

Clark didnt have any info or facts connecting the murders to Lex, and he made very severe accusations that turned out to be wrong. So shouldnt he apologize?

Nah. Clark's been doing this for three years now. Lex SHOULD HAVE known what that looney farmer was up to which is why he's so mad at his employee. Too often Clark has come to Lex about a problem only to find that it was funded by Luthorcorp. "Aqua" and "Cyborg" were instances where Lex didn't care about the well being of Clarks friends... well aquaintances/potential friends... So... Clark has a lot of reason to never give Lex the benefit of the doubt.

He'd be a fool to second guess himself when it comes to Lex. Clark should just go with his gut instinct.

ETA: I doubt even Jonathan Kent would apologize to Lex when he found out that there was slavery and murder going on at the farm Lex owned. The excuse "I didn't know." Just doesn't cut it. And it probably would have scored points for Lex in Clark's book (and made him more likely to apologize) if instead of being a flippant a** Lex had promised to look into it... and investigate Clark's claims.

Tia

12-09-2006, 11:15 AM

umm no, just no

heromyth

12-09-2006, 11:57 AM

No apology needed, not really.

Clark’s interrogational methods need work. He didn’t have a shred of proof and barged in unannounced and full of self-righteous indignation, again. Technically, Lex didn’t have explicit knowledge of the murderous ways of the farmer but since Luther Corp. funded the entire operation and chose the location due to the heavy concentration of meteor rocks in the soil, Lex bears the responsibility. Lex has killed before via hired thug proxy (like father like son) and he’ll kill again so Lex is in NO MORAL POSITION to object to Clark’s sloppy detective work or his laughably telegraphed accusations.

Moving on to the scene with Lana, does Clark need to apologize for that? Again, not really, Clark is absolutely correct. Lex is using the charitable project to launder his misdeeds and Lex is using Lana (I’ll concede that he does possess some genuine feelings for her) to temper, compliment, offset his dark side—and perhaps as a way of continuing to lash out at Clark. Lana’s character won’t be fully co-opted by Lex in the end. The Lana of the DC canon is a friend of Superman and knows his secret. The Lana of the extended prequel that is the Smallville series will eventually conform to the DC model. Clark’s derisive comments about Lex aren’t being well received right now but I believe that they are planting seeds of doubt within Lana that will be watered by the events to come. However, Clark should be careful not to antagonize Lana since his moronic handling of the dissolution of their relationship lead to Lana’s quasi-defection to the dark side, i.e. into the arms, and bed, of Lex. Clark’s suggestion that Lana’s a mere pawn in Lex’s evil schemes was in part true but underestimated Lana’s resolve to uncover the truth. Clark should have encouraged Lana to keep digging and asking questions, although that would mean that he’d be endorsing a modus operandi that would inevitably lead to her discovery of his true identity. Clark can’t urge Lana to see Lex for who he really is unless he’s willing to reveal himself to her. Lana deserves the truth from both men; their secrets have nearly resulted in Lana’s death several times.

Here’s the bottom line: if Lana leaves Lex it will be with the full knowledge of his sinister nature and if she discovers Lex’s true identity, the writers of the show will (in order to keep the Clark/Lex arcs running parallel in keeping with any classic hero/anti-hero narrative pairing) allow Lana to discover who Clark has been all along. The truth may initially devastate her (her parents died in the meteor shower bringing Clark to Earth) but Lana’s path to discovery has been intertwined with Clark’s for the entire series for that very reason—Clark’s entry literally thrust him into a new world while simultaneously obliterating Lana’s sense of belonging and familial security in this one. Their respective paths, to a degree, are running parallel as well. It is because of themes like this that Smallville, despite the intermittent cheesy episodes, is worth watching.

ginnyfan

12-09-2006, 12:06 PM

Great post heromyth. Very interesting in regards to the Lex/Lana/Clark journeys.

boywithbluehanger

12-09-2006, 12:29 PM

I don't know about everyone else but I'm so sick of hearing VERY similar dialogue with Lex and Clark when he comes in. I think AlMiles just want to keep banging into everyones heads that Lex and Clark are seriously enemies now but they're way too redundant about it.

Honestly it's at the point where I could lipsync what they will say!

Clark: "Lex why are you alowing blah blah to blah??! You're helping hurt many people by doing blah blah!"

Lex: "blah blah blah! And again Clark, what are you accusing me of this time? Blah blah I thought I told you. The days of you barging in my mansion are over...blah blah blah!!!"

I swear I feel like I've heard that at least 5 times already!

ginnyfan

12-09-2006, 12:38 PM

^I think we are all tired of it. It's like they are trying to remind us that they haven't forgotten that Clark and Lex are supposed to be enemies now. :rolleyes:

D.M.A.

12-09-2006, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by ginnyfan
Nah. Clark's been doing this for three years now. Lex SHOULD HAVE known what that looney farmer was up to which is why he's so mad at his employee. Too often Clark has come to Lex about a problem only to find that it was funded by Luthorcorp. "Aqua" and "Cyborg" were instances where Lex didn't care about the well being of Clarks friends... well aquaintances/potential friends... So... Clark has a lot of reason to never give Lex the benefit of the doubt.

He'd be a fool to second guess himself when it comes to Lex. Clark should just go with his gut instinct.

ETA: I doubt even Jonathan Kent would apologize to Lex when he found out that there was slavery and murder going on at the farm Lex owned. The excuse "I didn't know." Just doesn't cut it. And it probably would have scored points for Lex in Clark's book (and made him more likely to apologize) if instead of being a flippant a** Lex had promised to look into it... and investigate Clark's claims.
I agree wit their past experience clark doesn't need to forgive so easily

98chase

12-09-2006, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by KryptonX81
Now im personally in the group that feels that Lex isnt evil yet, so I may be a bit bias, but I think Clark's actions last night were way out of line.

He comes to Lex's mansion and accuses him of the mass murder of migrant workers, with apsolutly no evidence.

Sure Lex technicly owned the farm, but that has nothing to do with the actions that take place there. Now I dont know that much about farming, but from what I have heard it isnt uncommon for someone to sell a struggling farm to a bigger company, and set up an agreement where they still stay on the land and farm it, but the company collects some of the profits.

Clark didnt have any info or facts connecting the murders to Lex, and he made very severe accusations that turned out to be wrong. So shouldnt he apologize?
Lex isn't evil? I think he is very much evil. He's like "in the closet". He knows he's evil, he just hasn't let everyone else know yet.

He kidnaps people, throws them in cells, and runs experiments on them. Seems pretty evil to me.

Also, lets not forget that Lex is supposedly "building an army". You can't do that over night, it takes a substantial amount of time. Building an army could be deemed as an evil act. He's been evil for a while now.

Billy Jor-El

12-09-2006, 01:28 PM

I'm still surprised that Clark even gets into the mansion. This time he was escorted by a guard. What? "Hi, it's me the stakler/alien, I want to yell at the bald guy again." I thought Lex doesn't want him there, so how does he keep gaining access?

And ultimately, Clark is right. Lex knows more than he's telling, and certainly to Lana. Just where is her (empty) head gonna be when she finally discovers that Clark was right about Lex all along? Of course, is it Clark's place to lead Lana's life? Not. He let her go, so, dude, let her go.

Totally OT, but driving around the other day I saw a license plate that read "Kal El 4"......cool ;)

KryptonX81

12-09-2006, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by ginnyfan
"Aqua" and "Cyborg" were instances where Lex didn't care about the well being of Clarks friends... well aquaintances/potential friends... So... Clark has a lot of reason to never give Lex the benefit of the doubt.

Im so sick of people bringing up aqua and cyborg. All I saw in those two episodes were,

-Lex detaining a radical eco-terrorist that cared more about his fish friends than the scientists and maintinence workers that would have been surely killed in the explosion

-Lex donating millions of dollars worth of advanced prothstetics to a kid that was maimed in an auto accident.

wolverine316

12-09-2006, 04:40 PM

Let's be honest. Lex is a beyootch. Is this the 100th time he has told Clark he isn't allowed in the mansion but he comes anyway? Grow some stones Lex.

BadToad

12-09-2006, 05:06 PM

Im so sick of people bringing up aqua and cyborg. All I saw in those two episodes were,

-Lex detaining a radical eco-terrorist that cared more about his fish friends than the scientists and maintinence workers that would have been surely killed in the explosion

For one thing, who is Lex to detain anyone? Shouldn't he be turning the guy over to the cops. Also, there's no way Lex would've known about the maybe explosion since Clark stopped it. So, Lex had no reason to fear for scientists or maint workers, since he didn't know about the bomb. And did you miss the whole strapping him down, taunting him with water, knowing that the lack of water was having a reaction on his body part? Strapping people down to tables and torturing them is sort of...whats the word?....sick? wrong? evil? sociopathic?

-Lex donating millions of dollars worth of advanced prothstetics to a kid that was maimed in an auto accident.

Against his will, with no consent, then keeping this kid in a lab, shackled. Then, having the doctor killed that set the kid free, recapturing the kid clearly against his will, then ordering a procedure that would take the kids free will away by planting a chip in his brain. What part of this would not be considered evil?

You want to donate and develop prosthetics? You go to a hospital, you find a volunteer, you treat that person humanely. What Lex did was flat out immoral.

As for Clark owing Lex an apology in this episode, my answer is no. I have a tendency to think Clark doesn't owe Lex on ounce of spit even if he was on fire. I do think going to the mansion served no purpose at all though.

fa8362

12-09-2006, 06:09 PM

I don't get it. Lex shoots and stabs people to death multiple times, kidnaps people, imprisons people, performs experiments on people against their will, spies on people, constantly lies, etc and some of you claim he's not evil?????

ginnyfan

12-09-2006, 10:19 PM

^IMO Lex is evil. LOL! I don't get it either.

Originally posted by KryptonX81
Im so sick of people bringing up aqua and cyborg. All I saw in those two episodes were,

-Lex detaining a radical eco-terrorist that cared more about his fish friends than the scientists and maintinence workers that would have been surely killed in the explosion

-Lex donating millions of dollars worth of advanced prothstetics to a kid that was maimed in an auto accident.

You forgot the part where he was going to add AC to 33.1 and the part where he was going to lobotomize Cyborg. :)

KryptonX81

12-09-2006, 11:04 PM

33.1 is a place where mass murdering criminals are detained. You could easily put AC in there. Even if AC didnt actually succeed, he almost did.

And the whole cyborg chip thing is an emptey debate. The chip wouldnt lobotomize him. It is just that extreme emotions could interfere with his bionic implants (which he kinda needs to live). The chip would just calm him down whenever he got too upset or possible stop him from getting that upset in the first place. No diffrent from the idea of a pacemaker.
The chip wasnt going to make him a mindless slave.
To quote Lex, 'You watch too many sci-fi movies"

BadToad

12-09-2006, 11:36 PM

33.1 is a place where mass murdering criminals are detained.

Says who? We actually have no idea who Lex has been detaining in Level 33.1.

You could easily put AC in there. Even if AC didnt actually succeed, he almost did.

Didn't look like anyone was in the lab when he set that bomb. Not to me. That still does make him a criminal though. And last time I checked, criminals get turned over to the authorities, not to a billionaire sociopath who wants to do experiments on them.

And the whole cyborg chip thing is an emptey debate. The chip wouldnt lobotomize him. It is just that extreme emotions could interfere with his bionic implants (which he kinda needs to live).

Except he told Lex to take the implants out. He didn't want them. In the good ol' US of A, you can't just go around forcing medical experiments on people even if you are deluded enough to think you are doing good. Its illegal for one thing.

And wait, we're taking Lex's word that this chip that he was going to forceably place in Victor's head, over his objections and with no consent, was just a harmless little pacemaker type thing to keep him calm? Because gosh, its not like Lex might lie about something like that or anything, right?

The chip would just calm him down whenever he got too upset or possible stop him from getting that upset in the first place.

So, the chip would alter his emotions and inhabit his natural impules and instincts? Oh, of course, who would object to something like that? :rolleyes:

The chip wasnt going to make him a mindless slave.

Even if you believe that, I think the whole keeping him shackled in the lab thing would still be a gross human rights violation, in addition to being inhumane. Nor does it address the doctor that Lex had killed for helping Victor escape. Or, is it OK to have people murdered if they cross you?

vikingjedi

12-10-2006, 12:03 AM

I think Lex has always been evil and like another poster said "is in the closet hiding it". Clark is basically saying "I know you're evil and Im going to expose you for who you really are".

Clark did go out on a limb saying Lex was responsible, but after all the other past events where Lex was the reason it happened I think Clark was right to accuse him. Lex IS the villian of the story.

Saviour of Earth

12-10-2006, 01:51 AM

Its true Clark as done it a number of times but the vast majority of the time lex has been involved.

driv-el

12-10-2006, 03:57 AM

Wasn't it shown Lex didn't know about the mole man?

If Clark hadn't tipped him off, Lex wouldn't have known about the man of the soil until after the fact (as if that changes things).

KryptonX81

12-10-2006, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by BadToad
Says who? We actually have no idea who Lex has been detaining in Level 33.1.
Random accusations. No evidence to back it up. The only people we know for sure are in that lab are mass murdering criminals.

[Didn't look like anyone was in the lab when he set that bomb. Not to me. That still does make him a criminal though. And last time I checked, criminals get turned over to the authorities, not to a billionaire sociopath who wants to do experiments on them.[/B] We didnt see any people in that immediate area or in that room. There were surely a bunch ofother people around.

[Except he told Lex to take the implants out. He didn't want them. In the good ol' US of A, you can't just go around forcing medical experiments on people even if you are deluded enough to think you are doing good. Its illegal for one thing. [/B]
Yea, Victor looked real happy and relieved when his implants were damaged and he was going to die.
And you could see the sadness and anger in his eyes when he went off to live a new life with his girlfriend.
Victor had no idea what the hell he wanted in that episode.

[And wait, we're taking Lex's word that this chip that he was going to forceably place in Victor's head, over his objections and with no consent, was just a harmless little pacemaker type thing to keep him calm? Because gosh, its not like Lex might lie about something like that or anything, right? [/B]
So now you are making huge accusations wihtout any evidence to back it up, just becuase you hate Lex. I happen to remember Clark doing that in this last episode, and he was wrong.

[So, the chip would alter his emotions and inhabit his natural impules and instincts? Oh, of course, who would object to something like that? :rolleyes:[/B]
Once again, he still would be able to have emotions, it would just prevent him from getting way too worked up and out of control,
So he wouldnt die.
I dont think alot of people would object to that, seeing as there are thousands if not millions of people with pacemakers, which is the same sort of thing.

[Even if you believe that, I think the whole keeping him shackled in the lab thing would still be a gross human rights violation, in addition to being inhumane. [/B]

Yea, keeping someone in the hospitol to monitor them while they are possibly in critical condiotion. Can you believe the nerve of that guy?

ginnyfan

12-10-2006, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by KryptonX81
33.1 is a place where mass murdering criminals are detained. You could easily put AC in there. Even if AC didnt actually succeed, he almost did.

And the whole cyborg chip thing is an emptey debate. The chip wouldnt lobotomize him. It is just that extreme emotions could interfere with his bionic implants (which he kinda needs to live). The chip would just calm him down whenever he got too upset or possible stop him from getting that upset in the first place. No diffrent from the idea of a pacemaker.
The chip wasnt going to make him a mindless slave.
To quote Lex, 'You watch too many sci-fi movies"

:eek: YIKES!!! I'll agree to disagree. :)

BadToad

12-10-2006, 11:27 AM

Random accusations. No evidence to back it up. The only people we know for sure are in that lab are mass murdering criminals.

You have absolutely no proof of that either. I believe that the Vengeance Chronicles proved this assertion to be 100% false. And it STILL doesn't give Lex the right to detain them and perform experiments on them. Its ILLEGAL and IMMORAL, which is why we don't perform experiments on imprisoned felons in the USA.

We didnt see any people in that immediate area or in that room. There were surely a bunch ofother people around.

And we know the power of the bomb he was setting? And we know, even though there was no evidence whatsoever, that there were people in the area? The answer is no to both questions. But its neither here or there, as it still doesn't given Lex the right to detain and torture AC. It does give him the right to hand AC over to the authorities and press charges though.

Yea, Victor looked real happy and relieved when his implants were damaged and he was going to die.
And you could see the sadness and anger in his eyes when he went off to live a new life with his girlfriend.
Victor had no idea what the hell he wanted in that episode.

Even if thats true, this is Victor's right as a human being, and it still doesn't give Lex any right to make these decisions for him, or keep him imprisoned. And I thought Victor looked just fine and happy at the end, though he knew things would be difficult due to the medical experiments that had been done on him without his consent.

So now you are making huge accusations wihtout any evidence to back it up, just becuase you hate Lex. I happen to remember Clark doing that in this last episode, and he was wrong.

But you making huge accusations about the people in Level 33.1, or the damage AC might've done are completely based on fact? I don't think so, IMO. And I think its absolutely clear that Lex was involved in the murder of the doctor that freed Victor. If not him, then who? And I think Lex does bear some responsibility for what the moleman was doing. Lex didn't care at all that moleman was murdering people except that it endangered his project. And someone with that attitude deserves no apologies. IMO

Once again, he still would be able to have emotions, it would just prevent him from getting way too worked up and out of control,
So he wouldnt die.
I dont think alot of people would object to that, seeing as there are thousands if not millions of people with pacemakers, which is the same sort of thing.

I'm just doing to have to agree to disagree with you here, as I think the comparison you are making is so far from being accurate. But I don't think debating it is going to have a point.

Yea, keeping someone in the hospitol to monitor them while they are possibly in critical condiotion. Can you believe the nerve of that guy?

And if that person wanted to leave, you'd be all for shackling them? Once Lex fixed the implants, there was NO NEED to put anything in Victor's head to ensure his continuing life. The proof of that is that Victor is still alive, and making a return appearance on the show in fine form and health. And NO CHIP. Wow, how about that? Doesn't seem like a chip was necessary for him to live now, does it?

diva

12-10-2006, 01:31 PM

Answering the thread question, this might be partly based on events that I know about that Clark (still) doesn't know about, but with everything that's happened, no I don't think he should apologize. Too much under the bridge to be bothered to at this point.

The Aqua/Cyborg conversation is certainly an eye-opener for me, because I would think something would be plainly obvious.

Forget about A.C. and Aqua for a moment, forget about the whole dead doctor thing in Cyborg (which I'm not convinced Lex actually had a part in)... Victor may or may not have been sure about other things, but to my eyes? He seemed pretty d*mn sure he didn't want someone drilling a hole in his head.

If you can't even see how doing something like that, when said victim is point blank telling you to your face that they DO NOT want this to be done to them, is unethical at the very least, then what's the point of even trying to have a debate? Because then you're not even in the same book, much less on the same page.

And none of that is about 'hating Lex' (and even if it were, that's fine because he's supposed to be the villain of this story eventually). It's about paying attention to what was shown in the episode.

RMF

12-10-2006, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Billy Jor-El
I'm still surprised that Clark even gets into the mansion. This time he was escorted by a guard. What? "Hi, it's me the stakler/alien, I want to yell at the bald guy again." I thought Lex doesn't want him there, so how does he keep gaining access?
No matter what Lex says, if Clark is stopped by security but then actually escorted inside, then Lex wants him there. Quite possibly he is enjoying these scenes, because that's when he gets to rub Clark's nose in things.

All about Clark

12-10-2006, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by KryptonX81
Now im personally in the group that feels that Lex isnt evil yet, so I may be a bit bias, but I think Clark's actions last night were way out of line.

He comes to Lex's mansion and accuses him of the mass murder of migrant workers, with apsolutly no evidence.

Sure Lex technicly owned the farm, but that has nothing to do with the actions that take place there. Now I dont know that much about farming, but from what I have heard it isnt uncommon for someone to sell a struggling farm to a bigger company, and set up an agreement where they still stay on the land and farm it, but the company collects some of the profits.

Clark didnt have any info or facts connecting the murders to Lex, and he made very severe accusations that turned out to be wrong. So shouldnt he apologize?

In one word, "NOOOO"!!!

Lex is responsible, he knew what that guy was and exploited it. He probably even had the workers brought to him to help him run the farm. Just because Lex didn't know about the murders, Lex knew McNally was running the farm, had people under his control, had abilities that made him dangerous.

And if you don't consider Lex to be evil when he kidnaps, tortures, and shot several people (not always in self-defense), manipulates and uses blatant lies, then you have a strange idea of evil.

President_Luthor

12-13-2006, 12:03 PM

Clark needs to apologize for not ... signing ... in ... at the gatehouse like all the other uninvited guests.

Lex had to remind him -- again -- that he's not welcome.

Knock 'before' entering, Clark. :lol:

LuthorRequiem2

12-13-2006, 02:57 PM

"And I think its absolutely clear that Lex was involved in the murder of the doctor that freed Victor."

BadToad, I agree with all your points about Lex using Victor and illegally torturing AC, but as for this one, I'm not totally sure Lex had anything to do with it. The murder of that doctor could've been by Creeg (the guy who was conducting the experiments on Victor). Lex could've found out about Creeg after Clark waved the red flag (like he said), but instead of stopping Creeg and trying to help Victor like he said he would, he decided to work with Creeg and use Victor.

Or, you could be right, and he could've been involved in the doctor's murder. I'm just not entirely sure if that's how it played out or not. That's something I love about Lex's evil right now-it's so amibguous and up for debate. There are different possibilities and you wonder sometimes if he's trying to do the right thing or if he's up to no-good, but ultimately, I think he's crossed over to the dark-side for good now. Season five saw Lex on the crossroads, really close to being evil but still wanting to be somewhat good, and now, in season six, I think he's really embracing his destiny. Al and Miles promised "the rise of Lex Luthor", and I think the ending of "Subterranean" with Lex walking callously past all the inmates being experimented on in 33.1 clearly represents this and shows just how much Lex has crossed over.

"Random accusations. No evidence to back it up. The only people we know for sure are in that lab are mass murdering criminals."

Well, according to Vengeance Chronicles (which I haven't watched yet in full, but I've heard about) the girl from "Vengeance" is being imprisoned, and she's clearly not a mass murdering criminal. Also, (if you don't want a spoiler don't read any futher) I read somewhere that the Flash is being imprisoned in 33.1 as well. He's also not a mass murdering criminal. So there are innocent people as well as bad ones being imprisoned.

SuperGirlSR

12-14-2006, 08:19 AM

Yes and no. Both Lex and Clark could resign their differences. But, it was so bad that Clark couldn't be a little nicer to Lana. The trailer for next year could say differently about those two ex-lovers.

wraith808

12-14-2006, 08:50 AM

Ummm.. .Lex was responsible. So it wouldn't seem that an apology was necessary. Though I didn't like the whole scene...

Kryptonian-Ronin

12-14-2006, 08:55 AM

Clark knows Lex, and Lex deep down Knows that Clark knows him.

Personally I would have put the Kaibosh on Lex and his crap awhile ago, but then again I have no issues in abusing my superpowers :D

wraith808

12-14-2006, 08:58 AM

Don't get me started... Clark is *way* too wussy in using his powers. He's never heard of combatting foes on more than one level, or softening them up before he closes, or anything resembling tactics...

Lois needs to get him some of the training that she's had or something... too bad Raya couldn't train him before she died...

Kryptonian-Ronin

12-14-2006, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by wraith808
Don't get me started... Clark is *way* too wussy in using his powers. He's never heard of combatting foes on more than one level, or softening them up before he closes, or anything resembling tactics...

Lois needs to get him some of the training that she's had or something... too bad Raya couldn't train him before she died...

Maybe someone should give him the art of war by Sun Tzu or better yet, the book of five rings by Miyamoto Musashi.

That'll make him kick ass !

wraith808

12-14-2006, 09:03 AM

I was hoping that getting the beat down by Batista would let him know that he sucks as far as effective use of his powers... but MM bailed him out too soon...

Kryptonian-Ronin

12-14-2006, 09:05 AM

Hard to say if Batista's character would really have been able to do any real damage to Clark, guess we will never know.

LuthorRequiem2

12-14-2006, 09:46 AM

"But, it was so bad that Clark couldn't be a little nicer to Lana."

I don't know...I mean, Lana hasn't been very nice to Clark lately. When Clark offered to help her in that one scene, she ended up just being mean to him and saying, "Go away" basically instead of thanking him. She's always in his face about lying to her, acting like Lex is this saint who only tells her the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth; she's clearly blinded herself to Lex's true colors. So I don't think Clark was out of line. He just said it like it is, but he was still a gentleman about it. He wasn't rude, but just stood up for himself and said the truth. I liked that.

wraith808

12-14-2006, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by RMF
No matter what Lex says, if Clark is stopped by security but then actually escorted inside, then Lex wants him there. Quite possibly he is enjoying these scenes, because that's when he gets to rub Clark's nose in things.

Very good observation- I hadn't thought about that...

Kryptonian-Ronin

12-14-2006, 10:44 AM

Lex lives for power and to him control and manipulation is Power.

He lives to move people around him like chess pieces.

kickarse

12-14-2006, 10:52 AM

^^ You mean money isn't power? Whoa... someone outta clue Lana in on that!

---
It's quite easy to see why Lex is as controlling as he is. His father is that way. He doesn't trust anyone, even Lana. But he is impulsive around her which let's us see that he could possibly slip up. But, would she even notice?

Kryptonian-Ronin

12-14-2006, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by kickarse
^^ You mean money isn't power? Whoa... someone outta clue Lana in on that!

---
It's quite easy to see why Lex is as controlling as he is. His father is that way. He doesn't trust anyone, even Lana. But he is impulsive around her which let's us see that he could possibly slip up. But, would she even notice?

Money is Power? only to the naive.

The ability to control and manipulate people, that is power and that is what lex thrives on.
To get someone to do something 100% against their own character, against their own common sense AND make them think you had nothing to do with it, bay, THAT'S POWER !