I've Figured It Out...lionel

[LEXCLARK]

Lionel is Lionel just so you people know.

How he knew to call Clark"Kal-El" i'm not sure, but i realize now what he showed Jonathan in the barn....it was a still photo of Clark saving Lana in that explosion. Which makes TOTAL SENSE NOW......if you noticed, Lionel out of nowhere for no good reason decided to back Jonathan's campagin AFTER THAT EXPLOSION, as i recall. His reason was because he knew he had this on the Kents...and he could use it to get closer to Martha and find out more about Clark.

Jonathan died, so he wanted to be sure about it...so devised a plan of sending the dvd to Martha, to see what she would do...of course she foolishly was going to pay off the supposed sender, but of course it was Lionel(he was sitting in a limo 20 feet away for crying out loud!) When she did that he knew of course that it was TRUE!

I predict that ultimately this is going to lead to Lionel's death, perhaps this season. Lex will somehoe find out that Lionel knows something about Clark, and Lex and him will get into a big argument/final showdown over it and Lex will kill him.

Am i right or am I right?

[myankskent]

Originally posted by LEXCLARK
Lionel is Lionel just so you people know.

How he knew to call Clark"Kal-El" i'm not sure, but i realize now what he showed Jonathan in the barn....it was a still photo of Clark saving Lana in that explosion. Which makes TOTAL SENSE NOW......if you noticed, Lionel out of nowhere for no good reason decided to back Jonathan's campagin AFTER THAT EXPLOSION, as i recall. His reason was because he knew he had this on the Kents...and he could use it to get closer to Martha and find out more about Clark.

Jonathan died, so he wanted to be sure about it...so devised a plan of sending the dvd to Martha, to see what she would do...of course she foolishly was going to pay off the supposed sender, but of course it was Lionel(he was sitting in a limo 20 feet away for crying out loud!) When she did that he knew of course that it was TRUE!

I predict that ultimately this is going to lead to Lionel's death, perhaps this season. Lex will somehoe find out that Lionel knows something about Clark, and Lex and him will get into a big argument/final showdown over it and Lex will kill him.

Am i right or am I right?

As I've said in other threads, how do you explain the fact that Lionel knew about Professor Fine back in Solitude when he told Chloe about him? I think Lionel knows too much detailed information about Clark and Kryptonians in general for it to be him. It's got to be JorEL feeding him information or controlling him.

[superhippie2000]

the explosion happened in lockdown what ever the picture was is the thing from Lexmas. i think they are 2 seperate things. why show the dvd and not the photo?
i do think that all of this will eventually lead to lionels death but i dont know in which way. also if jor el isnt in lionel why would lionel call him kal el if if he knew that was clarks real name why use it. same thing bugged me about dr swan always calling him kal el and getting that key. is jor el just putting thoughts in lionels head and did he do that to dr swan too. i really hope eventually we learn all of lionels secretes cause right now no one knows anything about what lionel really knows.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by superhippie2000
the explosion happened in lockdown what ever the picture was is the thing from Lexmas. i think they are 2 seperate things. why show the dvd and not the photo?
i do think that all of this will eventually lead to lionels death but i dont know in which way. also if jor el isnt in lionel why would lionel call him kal el if if he knew that was clarks real name why use it. same thing bugged me about dr swan always calling him kal el and getting that key. is jor el just putting thoughts in lionels head and did he do that to dr swan too. i really hope eventually we learn all of lionels secretes cause right now no one knows anything about what lionel really knows.

I agree, Lionel is the most intriguing character on the show, he always has been. I like how he has been in a lot of episodes of late because you need his scenes to keep the show moving. There's only so much Clark/Lana and Clark/Chloe garbage that I can stomach.

[LEXCLARK]

Originally posted by superhippie2000
the explosion happened in lockdown what ever the picture was is the thing from Lexmas. i think they are 2 seperate things. why show the dvd and not the photo?
i do think that all of this will eventually lead to lionels death but i dont know in which way. also if jor el isnt in lionel why would lionel call him kal el if if he knew that was clarks real name why use it. same thing bugged me about dr swan always calling him kal el and getting that key. is jor el just putting thoughts in lionels head and did he do that to dr swan too. i really hope eventually we learn all of lionels secretes cause right now no one knows anything about what lionel really knows.

I've had my suspicins that Lionel has known Clark's secret since Season2...how much I'm not sure but he's obviously been investigating him the whole time..much more than Lex has. I don't what your talking about from Lexmas, you'll have to clarify.

[All about Clark]

I think Lionel's known everything since Jor-el used him in Hidden. Lionel doesn't have a need for more information, he just wants to be close to this family. He used this ploy to get Martha to trust him. I still think he's good from Transference and I see it in his face, there's no hunger to conquer, or hurt, or even to figure anything out. Since Transference, Lionel's face has been one of peace. He just goes about everything in his usual slimy ways.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
I think Lionel's known everything since Jor-el used him in Hidden. Lionel doesn't have a need for more information, he just wants to be close to this family. He used this ploy to get Martha to trust him. I still think he's good from Transference and I see it in his face, there's no hunger to conquer, or hurt, or even to figure anything out. Since Transference, Lionel's face has been one of peace. He just goes about everything in his usual slimy ways.

There is nothing left for him to figure out, he knows everything. How do you know that he won't move in for the kill later on. Just because he isn't threatening people like he did back in season 3 doesn't mean that it isn't is endgame to do so.

[fa8362]

"Am i right or am I right?"

I don't think so.

"His reason was because he knew he had this on the Kents...and he could use it to get closer to Martha and find out more about Clark."

That doesn't make sense to me. IMO, if he wanted to know more about Clark, he would just confront him or obtain the info the way he obtains all his current info on Clark.

[krpto]

i think it was jor-el before but now lionel broke free and learned about the alien's looking for someone named kal-el, saw clark save lana in the explosion, and his memory loss from jor-el possesing him all put together made him figure out the truth.

[bgh74]

So I have been going over this in my head since that final scene last night. Basically I think the whole meaning of that last is just like it played out.

Lionel did just pay off that guy because he was indeed trying to blackmail Martha.

At the end of the episode Lionel looked like he was watching that DVD for the first time and that he basically bought the original copy of the DVD from the blackmailer.

However, just because he was watching the DVD doesn't mean he didn't know that Clark has powers, what I think it means is that he now has the only proof of Clarks powers and will keep it under wraps, hence the comment "Your secret is safe with me"

I do think there is some some sort of Jor-El, Swan or Crosby in him because of the "Kal-El" comment but I don't even want to open that can of worms.

[greggbray]

" think Lionel's known everything since Jor-el used him in Hidden. Lionel doesn't have a need for more information, he just wants to be close to this family. He used this ploy to get Martha to trust him. I still think he's good from Transference and I see it in his face, there's no hunger to conquer, or hurt, or even to figure anything out. Since Transference, Lionel's face has been one of peace. He just goes about everything in his usual slimy ways. "

don't forget about Onyx. He reverted back to Darth Lionel thanks to Bad Lex's interference. He's now good old fashioned EVIL again.

I would agree with Lionel having the kryptonian knowledge from the events from Commencement through Hidden.

He's still Lionel. The blackmailer works for Lionel, which is how Lionel was there when the package was dropped off, and there for the blackmail payoff. It was his way of earning martha's trust.

Lionel's character is having his cake, and eating it too. He gets to know Clark's secret, volley for control of the company with Lex, and attempt to smoove on up to Martha. He's still a snake.

But what an awesome one. :)

[the_drifter]

Originally posted by krpto
i think it was jor-el before but now lionel broke free and learned about the alien's looking for someone named kal-el, saw clark save lana in the explosion, and his memory loss from jor-el possesing him all put together made him figure out the truth.


of all the theories in this thread, i'm buying yours.

[Jephael]

Originally posted by All about Clark
I think Lionel's known everything since Jor-el used him in Hidden. Lionel doesn't have a need for more information, he just wants to be close to this family. He used this ploy to get Martha to trust him. I still think he's good from Transference and I see it in his face, there's no hunger to conquer, or hurt, or even to figure anything out. Since Transference, Lionel's face has been one of peace. He just goes about everything in his usual slimy ways.

God only knows what truly goes on within the mind and spirit of Lionel Luthor. Heck, we still don't even know if he really lost his memory from when he was in Clark's body, though some speculation would say he really couldn't remember.

From what I gathered in both this episode and "Vengeance", Jor-El still in habits Lionel's body, therefore he controls what the Luthor thinks and feels.

[BamaGN]

I think Lionel has know about Clark for a long time. He mentioned something about this when he got his vision back, but led people to believe he was still blind. Clark used his powers several times in front of Lionel when he was blind. Also, the episode with the "Dark Avenger" or whatever her name was, he saved Lionel then. That girl tried to throw him out of a window and Clark saved him. You would have thought Lionel would have said, "how did you grab me so fast". And the fact Lionel is always saying he is a remarkable young man.

[Kryptonian Snake]

I agree with those that think Lionel's known everything since "Hidden". At this point, I'm guessing that he wants to get close to Martha and protect Clark.

Question: How is Lionel still affiliated with Luthorcorp? In the beginning of the episode, Lionel mentions using a Luthorcorp helicopter to take Martha to Topeka. It also looks like he was sitting in his former office at Luthrocorp Plaza. In "Vengeance" we saw that Lex blocked Lionel's attempt to regain control of Luthorcorp, so I'm confused as to how Lionel still has access.

[SVFan7337]

If I am not mistaken, didn't the last Dr. Swann episode leave us with the impression that Lionel and Dr. Swann might be collaborating? Or that perhaps Lionel and Dr. Crosby were in cahoots (once she picked Lionel up from prison)?

My theory is that Lionel knows what he knows from Dr. Swann / Dr. Crosby, not from Jor-El. I believe he was just a vessel for Jor-El. I believe Lionel is still bad and was faking the whole blackmail thing to get Martha to trust him.

Lionel has shown over and over again that he has turned bad again ever since the end of Onyx.

[Kryptonian Snake]

I'm pretty sure Genevieve picked up Lionel from prison since she was the one who arranged his release. Dr. Crosby picked up Edgar at the end of "Transference".

[Jellie]

Originally posted by Kryptonian Snake
I'm pretty sure Genevieve picked up Lionel from prison since she was the one who arranged his release. Dr. Crosby picked up Edgar at the end of "Transference".

That is correct

[superhippie2000]

Originally posted by LEXCLARK
I've had my suspicins that Lionel has known Clark's secret since Season2...how much I'm not sure but he's obviously been investigating him the whole time..much more than Lex has. I don't what your talking about from Lexmas, you'll have to clarify.


remember lex met with that black guy and he had something that he can use agianst mr kent and then he said he wouldnt use it but after lana died in his dream he told that guy to use what he got and then i think maybe fanatic wich was before lockdown too lionel intercepted that guy who was going to meet lex to give him that picture but lionel took it and burned it. i think that was the same picture he used on mr kent before mr kent died so there must have been more copies. if the picture mr kent saw was the same as the video then i want to know what the other picture was that lionel first had.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by SVFan7337 My theory is that Lionel knows what he knows from Dr. Swann / Dr. Crosby, not from Jor-El. I believe he was just a vessel for Jor-El. I believe Lionel is still bad and was faking the whole blackmail thing to get Martha to trust him.

Lionel has shown over and over again that he has turned bad again ever since the end of Onyx. [/B]

You guys need to hear Lionel's words as opposed to his actions, yes his actions are slimy, so listen to the words. He's saying he is protecting Clark's secret (good Lionel). In Onyx he says We're Luthors, Lex showing him the error of his ways (still good Lionel), he's saying that he created this son this way and knows he was wrong in his choice, that he made a mistake. He acts slimy so that Lex won't get too suspicisous. With Jonathan, he mentions a secret that he would protect with his life, again (good Lionel) and Jonathan misinterprets it to be a form of blackmail and gets upset.

So in conclusion, yes he's slimy, LISTEN TO HIS WORDS.

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Here's what I posted about Lionel a couple months ago.

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45239

I think Lionel's been good since Transference.

[superhippie2000]

Originally posted by Kryptonian Snake

Question: How is Lionel still affiliated with Luthorcorp? In the beginning of the episode, Lionel mentions using a Luthorcorp helicopter to take Martha to Topeka. It also looks like he was sitting in his former office at Luthrocorp Plaza. In "Vengeance" we saw that Lex blocked Lionel's attempt to regain control of Luthorcorp, so I'm confused as to how Lionel still has access.


Lionel still owns Luthorcorp but Lex is in control of it. Lex is getting more powerful that he can do all the experiments and stuff that Lionel used to do. With Lex more evil he is able to sucker people to work for him and do his deeds. Lionel i think wants to have the power back and that is why he is trying to help the kents becomes a voice in the state because people will listen to them but they hate lionel. The only way Lionel will have nothing to do with luthorcorp is if he sells it to Lex or if he dies (my guess is lex and him have a battle and he dies which automatically lets lex have the company. there is also the lucus luthor stuff so lex and him may team up to kill lionel like lionel did to his parents and lucus dies with him)

[All about Clark]

^Are you watching the same show. Lex has complete power over Luthorcorp. Yes Lionel can find ways and money when he needs to. Lionel no longer has the desire to take back Luthorcorp unless Lex abuses it, leaves it vulnerable or becomes to power hungry.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
Here's what I posted about Lionel a couple months ago.

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45239

I think Lionel's been good since Transference.

Me, too, MyOwnSuperhero. And that was a great post. I have to wonder, with the Kal-El line at the end of the episode, whether Dr. Swann figures into this mix somehow.

[superhippie2000]

yes lex basically stole the comapny for lionel but techincally lionel will still own it right cause i dont think he sold it or put it in lexs name.

[Jephael]

Who is everyone pointing out the obvious when we should be discussing what isn't obvious?

[superhippie2000]

i want to know why lex actually believes people think he is telling the truth and why is lionel so secretive when no one else on the show is and they have better secretes

[Jephael]

I guess Lionel is just better at his deciept than Lex is at this point.

[LEXCLARK]

Originally posted by fa8362
"
That doesn't make sense to me. IMO, if he wanted to know more about Clark, he would just confront him or obtain the info the way he obtains all his current info on Clark.

Do you know Lionel at all?...Please...Lionel is smarter than that

[All about Clark]

I really don't believe Dr. Swann or Dr. Crosby has any impact in Lionel knowing about Clark. Jor-el should be the only issue and I really don't think Jor-el has lingered in Lionel. Once Jor-el brought Clark back to life and made him Kyrptonian again, Clark wouldn't die and therefore wouldn't need Jor-el to linger in Lionel. The simple deduction is that Lionel has become aware of Clark since Hidden.

[RJK62284]

Originally posted by LEXCLARK
Lionel is Lionel just so you people know.

How he knew to call Clark"Kal-El" i'm not sure, but i realize now what he showed Jonathan in the barn....it was a still photo of Clark saving Lana in that explosion. Which makes TOTAL SENSE NOW......if you noticed, Lionel out of nowhere for no good reason decided to back Jonathan's campagin AFTER THAT EXPLOSION, as i recall. His reason was because he knew he had this on the Kents...and he could use it to get closer to Martha and find out more about Clark.

Jonathan died, so he wanted to be sure about it...so devised a plan of sending the dvd to Martha, to see what she would do...of course she foolishly was going to pay off the supposed sender, but of course it was Lionel(he was sitting in a limo 20 feet away for crying out loud!) When she did that he knew of course that it was TRUE!

I predict that ultimately this is going to lead to Lionel's death, perhaps this season. Lex will somehoe find out that Lionel knows something about Clark, and Lex and him will get into a big argument/final showdown over it and Lex will kill him.

Am i right or am I right?

Then why would he pay off the guy at the end of the episode to get the DVD of the explosion.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by All about Clark
I really don't believe Dr. Swann or Dr. Crosby has any impact in Lionel knowing about Clark. Jor-el should be the only issue and I really don't think Jor-el has lingered in Lionel. Once Jor-el brought Clark back to life and made him Kyrptonian again, Clark wouldn't die and therefore wouldn't need Jor-el to linger in Lionel. The simple deduction is that Lionel has become aware of Clark since Hidden.
That's certainly possible. It still seems a little loose to me. How would Lionel know about Professor Fine?

Maybe I just want to see more than is really there. :\

[LEXCLARK]

Originally posted by RJK62284
Then why would he pay off the guy at the end of the episode to get the DVD of the explosion.
Lionel set the wh0ole thing up...the guy he paid off WORKS FOR HIM...he pretended to pay the guy off....ISN'T IT OBVIOUS???

[LuthorRequiem2]

"That's certainly possible. It still seems a little loose to me. How would Lionel know about Professor Fine?

Maybe I just want to see more than is really there."

Well, I have two theories on that:

1. It was Lionel, who remembered all the downloaded knowledge that was put into his brain, thus he remembered about a computer who tried to blow up Krypton (remember, Jor-El said, "When the stone went off in the cave, this body I inhabit became a vessel for Kryptonian knowledge" NOTE: he said, "THIS BODY" meaning, when he leaves the body, it will still retain the Kryptonian information)

2. It was Jor-El at the time that he knew about Proff. Fine. Remember, he said to Clark, "I will inhabit this body whenever you should need me". Clark certainly would need him at a time like that, so maybe Jor-El popped into his body and helped out.

[Daphne]

Boy I could be wrong, but I don't think Jor-El is in Lionel. I think I must have missed a show because I don't rememebr all the Jor-El Lionel stuff.
Can't Jor-El just go away?

[scifiguy]

It could be possible that Lionel isn't "possed" by Jor-el, but that his mind has been altered by the contact. He's still the cold Lionel that we all know and love but there is a force at work inside of him that is altering his personality. And I also had a what if, I'm a great what if guy, what if Chloe has been touched by Kal-el's mother. Why would we assume that only Jor-el's mind is here. It could expain the bond that they have other than friendship.

[LuthorRequiem2]

scifiguy,

the theory on Chloe is very "what-if", but still, quite creative and intriguing theory. Good idea. Maybe they'll explore that. I doubt it, but it'd be really cool. I think, though, that Chloe has always been close to Clark, and that's just because she's a great person and recognizes what a great person he is.

[xrayvision]

Lionel is a smart dude. He knows things that nobody else knows, like how Clark was adopted by Metropolis United Charities, an organization that he created just for that. Lionel had to remember what happened in Transference. What he told the doctor had to be a lie. I think he learned that true power is best left unexposed like he said when he was in Clark's body. Since then, he has been hiding what he knows and what he can do. The stone downloaded knowledge that nobody else has, and maybe he can read the language now. If he can, he could have read the name Kal-El somewhere. I just don't think Jor-El has anything to do with it. It would be too easy if that's the case.

I also don't think he's a villian anymore. If he was, then Lex could never stop him with the knowledge (or Clark, Krypton, etc) & experience he has. I think he's a good guy behind a mask of evil so that Lex won't find out what he's really up to.

[scifiguy]

As I said I'm a great what if guy, but I believe that the answer has to be a combination of facts. Is Lionel a bad guy, who knows, what bad stuff did he do before smallville. Was he just a ruthless person who was out to make a dollar, did he do the types of things that lex has done.

Is it possible that he sees the evil that lex is capable of and doesn't approve of if, remember lex has had a vision of a world that has been destroyed and is not swaying from that path, mabey lionel has seen the type of research tha t lex is funding and fears this future is possible and sees clark as the possible solution to it.