Problems With the Plot

[drounal]

There is one thing that I still don't quite get.

if I were Clark I would just repeat the exact same day and make sure that Lana doesn't go to Lex. He could have used any excuse: they just decided to get married, she could stay at the party to celebrate the event (or at least go with her).

Or course his dad would still die but that's not something he could have foreseen, so why bother ? At least his couple would be safe and he could live happily ever after...

Anyone agrees ?

It seems so natural that I don't understand how he could not do so (but we then forget the original story blablabla ...)

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by drounal

Or course his dad would still die but that's not something he could have foreseen, so why bother ? At least his couple would be safe and he could live happily ever after...



As soon as you get "happily ever after" the story ends... no need for any more episodes (Sorry, Maya... you've just been cancelled...). :rolleyes:

[drounal]

sorry, but I'm a total clana fan.

if I was given the choice I would let JK die and imagine something else to get Lana out of the picture (if I really had to)

[Kal EL2380]

He didn’t tell her his secret since he felt it was the secret that cost Lana her life. That’s why he didn’t tell her. Sure he could have stopped the accident from happening the second time around, but he knew he only had one shot at this. He then decided to not tell her thinking that this would keep her out of danger. Later when he stops the accident I'm sure he realized that even by not telling her she still ended up in the same situation. It wasn’t the secret itself that killed her the first time around. It was her "friendship" with Lex that did. Since he stopped the accident, JK did not stop at the scene. This is a lesson for Clark to learn. Even if he changes one event, the outcome is still the same. Someone still had to die. As Jor-El stated, they are not gods. He has to learn that he cannot save everybody and that every decision he makes has consequences.

[drounal]

that strikes me quite a lot.

first thing. clark sucks. I may not be actually living the same things but telling Lana my secret is something I would have done long ago and done again the second time (that's the first I thought about when he traveled through time)

second thing. if each time clark (or superman) saves someone, someone else has to die; then why bother saving people ? innocent people will keep diying...

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by drounal
first thing. clark sucks. I may not be actually living the same things but telling Lana my secret is something I would have done long ago and done again the second time (that's the first I thought about when he traveled through time)

second thing. if each time clark (or superman) saves someone, someone else has to die; then why bother saving people ? innocent people will keep diying...

On your 1st sentence (Clark sucks), I agree ;)

On your last sentence, ONLY this time someone died FIRST. When he saves people, no one has died yet (he "saves" them not "resurrects" them... remember Kryptonians are NOT Gods)...

This came up on another thread... :p

[drounal]

now I agree.

but I still think that CK sucks. He's never been able to make one correct choice throughout the whole serie. he does not deserve to be with Lana (even if I'm a clana fan)

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by drounal
now I agree.

but I still think that CK sucks. He's never been able to make one correct choice throughout the whole serie. he does not deserve to be with Lana (even if I'm a clana fan)

neither has lex, but everyone loves him. oh wait, he's just misunderstood. :mad:

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
neither has lex, but everyone loves him. oh wait, he's just misunderstood. :mad:

Did you graduate from "Cynical State" too??? I have a PHd from there... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[drounal]

talking about Lex. how can he be drunk, alone in the mansion, just a couple of minutes after the results ?

shouldn't he be with his (few?) supporters ?

... maybe he also has a super-speed (or super-easily-drunk) mode...

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by KRAM-el
Did you graduate from "Cynical State" too??? I have a PHd from there... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

actually i got my PhD from UC. UC State was beneath me. :lol:

Originally posted by drounal
talking about Lex. how can he be drunk, alone in the mansion, just a couple of minutes after the results ?

shouldn't he be with his (few?) supporters ?

... maybe he also has a super-speed (or super-easily-drunk) mode...

well i guess he found out the results hours before the polls were closed (gee, no plot hole there). geez, he couldn't even rig the polls in his favor. even bush could do that and he's an idiot.

and when do you ever see lex with regular people (not employees)? i mean his security guards don't even want to go near him (when do you ever see them?)

lex has no friends, because he is not a good person.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
i mean his security guards don't even want to go near him (when do you ever see them?)


Whenever you do, they seem to be at the business-end of a Baretta... Can you see the application? "If you want to live more than a couple of weeks - don't bother to apply"... :mad:

[schroepandchloe]

Originally posted by drounal
that strikes me quite a lot.

first thing. clark sucks. I may not be actually living the same things but telling Lana my secret is something I would have done long ago and done again the second time (that's the first I thought about when he traveled through time)

second thing. if each time clark (or superman) saves someone, someone else has to die; then why bother saving people ? innocent people will keep diying...

a superhero's life is about sacrifice.

[drounal]

not a good person ??

if he's really the one ending up together with Lana, then he MUST be a good person somewhere (deep inside).

btw, will Lana die as well ? she's not in the movies after all ...

[schroepandchloe]

Originally posted by drounal
not a good person ??

if he's really the one ending up together with Lana, then he MUST be a good person somewhere (deep inside).

btw, will Lana die as well ? she's not in the movies after all ...


lana was in superman III and i do believe she was in the comics as well

[Jaygog 2]

Originally posted by drounal

btw, will Lana die as well ? she's not in the movies after all ...

she is in the movies (er movie), and that's redundant. Smallville does not = movies.

[drounal]

oh ! my bad then !

I must I'm not a superman addict. I kind of re-discovered the whole thing with smallville.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by drounal
oh ! my bad then !

I must I'm not a superman addict. I kind of re-discovered the whole thing with smallville.

my advice is to never watch superman iv. you will see alot of lana but also nuclear-man??? oh, don't even get me started. christopher reeve deserved better (gene hackman most assuredly did)

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
my advice is to never watch superman iv. you will see alot of lana but also nuclear-man??? oh, don't even get me started.

Oh, GOD. Did you HAVE to bring THAT up??? And I just ate... :\

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by KRAM-el
Oh, GOD. Did you HAVE to bring THAT up??? And I just ate... :\

sorry bro, but if i can save one person from enduring that abominaton, i have to try.

[photogirl]

Clark new that he could protect lana from what he already knew would happen that day if she knew his secret, but he also knew that people would be after her, trying to get his secret out of her for the rest of her life, and he didn't want to do that to her...

[MyOwnSuperhero]

I think we can all agree that Superman IV is dead to us all, and we'll try to pretend it never happened, just like Batman and Robin.

In the first timeline, it was the fact that Lex knew that Lana knew that got Lana killed. Thus, Clark will probably never tell her openly now, even though he knows that she could accept it. If she ever does find out, it'll be through someone else or by seeing it happen.

[myownwoman]

I totally agree with you MyOwnSuperhero. I do not know if Clark would even want to be close to Lana after what happened, he might put her at a distance. This of course will draw resentment in her and she will probably run to Lex to rant about Clark pushing her away and Lex will use this as an opportunity to get close to Lana. I do not know if she will push Lex away for doing just that.

This episode has definently changed my mind about Clana big time.

[ab_asino_lanam]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
my advice is to never watch superman iv. you will see alot of lana but also nuclear-man??? oh, don't even get me started. christopher reeve deserved better (gene hackman most assuredly did)

Actually, Lana was not in Superman IV; she was in Superman III, the one with Richard Prior. Lana was played by Annette O'toole, who plays Martha in SV. Gene Hackman was not in Superman III, hence Lex Luthor was not in Superman III, but he returned in Superman IV, and created nuclear-man. Now, for the rest of it, oh yeah, both movies sucked. You were totally right there.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by ab_asino_lanam
Actually, Lana was not in Superman IV; she was in Superman III, the one with Richard Prior. Lana was played by Annette O'toole, who plays Martha in SV. Gene Hackman was not in Superman III, hence Lex Luthor was not in Superman III, but he returned in Superman IV, and created nuclear-man. Now, for the rest of it, oh yeah, both movies sucked. You were totally right there.

D'oh! Good catch. Appears I blocked out too much :o

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
D'oh! Good catch. Appears I blocked out too much :o
Don't feel bad, I get 'em mixed up after II as well. Heck, it's been years since I saw EITHER of those disasters!

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by KRAM-el
Don't feel bad, I get 'em mixed up after II as well. Heck, it's been years since I saw EITHER of those disasters!

20+ years. :eek: when did i get that old????

[drounal]

but if Lex felt that Lana knew, he could have also felt that Chloe knew.
...especially after finding her totally cool with having been transported thousands of miles away from her house during the meteor shower.

handn't Chloe known she would have freaked out quite a bit.

Chloe is gonna live her whole life with this secrect and so is Pete and the several freaks that found out during the show ...
why would people go especially after Lana ? because she's CK's girlfriend ? Well, if I was a vilain and CK had no girlfriend I would go to his friends and the result would just be the same (put them in jeopardy)...

In any case, knowing him may threaten your life, so been a friend or a girlfriend doesn't make such a difference, does it ?

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by drounal
but if Lex felt that Lana knew, he could have also felt that Chloe knew.
...especially after finding her totally cool with having been transported thousands of miles away from her house during the meteor shower.

handn't Chloe known she would have freaked out quite a bit.

Chloe is gonna live her whole life with this secrect and so is Pete and the several freaks that found out during the show ...
why would people go especially after Lana ? because she's CK's girlfriend ? Well, if I was a vilain and CK had no girlfriend I would go to his friends and the result would just be the same (put them in jeopardy)...

In any case, knowing him may threaten your life, so been a friend or a girlfriend doesn't make such a difference, does it ?

shhh. you're not supposed to think such thoughts. the writers may find this out and actually get a clue.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
shhh. you're not supposed to think such thoughts. the writers may find this out and actually get a clue.
Don't worry, they won't. Remember, ignorance is BLISS...

[drounal]

the same thoughts also apply to Spiderman for exemple ...

Remember Tobey McGuire talking alone on the phone in the second opus; he could as well tell her the truth (after all she got kidnapped by Dc Octopus even though she didn't know the truth...)

[jimmyolsenblues]

Its possible now that Jonathan is dead, clark does not want to marry lana. Clark will blame himself forever for Jonathan dying, and the way Clark's brooding character is, its better never to get married.

[Kryppy]

1. Why didn't Clark tell Lana the 2nd time? Lana's death had nothing to do with knowing Clark's secret, it just had to do with being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why didn't Clark just tell her everything, and tell her to stay off that road that night?

2. Wouldn't Jonathan have died anyway? At the end, Clark acts like he has something to regret, as if not going back in time would have saved Jonathan's life. But itwouldn't have! Wouldn't Lionel have gone into the barn at the same time anyway, and the fight and all the same things happen anyway? If Clark didn't go back in time, Jonathan would have died in addition to Lana, not instead!

3. What the heck is Jor-el? He can burn Kryptonian symbols into Clark's chest, give Jonathan temporary super power, control that the Kents find Kal-el's rocket, bring dead Lindsey back to life and control her mind, brainwash Clark, talk from the ship and cave and FOS, bring Clark back to life, make time go backwards (and do all these things AFTER he's dead)....... and then he say's "We Kryptonians are not gods" ..... Then what the heck are they? That's just insulting the viewers intelligence! If Kryptonians can do all those things after they're dead, they would not be extinct!

[angelfire east]

Originally posted by Kryppy
1. Why didn't Clark tell Lana the 2nd time? Lana's death had nothing to do with knowing Clark's secret, it just had to do with being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why didn't Clark just tell her everything, and tell her to stay off that road that night?

It was stupid, Chloe know and Lex knows Chloe knows and she still alive.

Lana's line about "lex knows, I don't know how he knows" is a wrong, she knows; he told her not 5 mintues ago, he saw the ring and told her 'she wouldn't agree to marrige if she didn't get the truth, he knew she wouldn't settle for less.'

Lex was drunk and depressed and freaked out when he thought he'd lost Lana for good and saw she knew the secret and might be able to find out what it is.

That wouldn't have happened with a sober Lex, a sober Lex would have tryed to manipulate Lana to find out the secret. A sober lex wouldn't put Lana's life in danger like that because he wouldn't wan to lose his chance at learning the secret or losting Lana, he'd be more clalating about it. Like he's been with Chloe.

[SOnMyChest]

Originally posted by Kryppy
3. What the heck is Jor-el? He can burn Kryptonian symbols into Clark's chest, give Jonathan temporary super power, control that the Kents find Kal-el's rocket, bring dead Lindsey back to life and control her mind, brainwash Clark, talk from the ship and cave and FOS, bring Clark back to life, make time go backwards (and do all these things AFTER he's dead)....... and then he say's "We Kryptonians are not gods" ..... Then what the heck are they? That's just insulting the viewers intelligence! If Kryptonians can do all those things after they're dead, they would not be extinct!

EXACTLY!!! makes u thinks there is a Zod conspiracy happening and that it might not be Jor-El....but that is for another post.

Overall i agree with you 120%.

[Logistics]

Originally posted by Kryppy
1. Why didn't Clark tell Lana the 2nd time? Lana's death had nothing to do with knowing Clark's secret, it just had to do with being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why didn't Clark just tell her everything, and tell her to stay off that road that night?

I agree with this one aswell. but from other episodes we know that Clark over reacts on everything so its not so far fetched on the actions he took. Also for the life of me i cant figure out why Lana ran off to see Lex anyway, come on she just accepted to get married to Clark and it was his fathers party. shouldnt she have stayed there for support?.. and we all know Lana, she learns kung fu and thinks shes little miss-unstopable. if Clark told her not to go she probably still would have gone anyway. IMO this was just a way for the people who write the show to show us what we wanted to happen. and find an excuse to take it back. lets be honest, she would have either died. or the impact would have knocked her out and she would have forgot everything.

2. Wouldn't Jonathan have died anyway? At the end, Clark acts like he has something to regret, as if not going back in time would have saved Jonathan's life. But itwouldn't have! Wouldn't Lionel have gone into the barn at the same time anyway, and the fight and all the same things happen anyway? If Clark didn't go back in time, Jonathan would have died in addition to Lana, not instead!

This one is a little tricky. if you watch the first time Jonathan is stoped by Accident on his way to the barn. i think he still gets the phone call from Luthor and is on his way home when he is stopped by Lana's accident.? if i remember right anyway. but at teh sametime if all it took was a fight to give him a heart attack. then yes, he would have died soon in the show. even so i think the episode before this one he was taking pills when the people kept calling him to drop out of the race.. so everything was already in motion for him to pass on. Lana on the otherhand wasnt. she died because shes acting stupid. and running to Lex whenever he summons for her. not because of Clark.

3. What the heck is Jor-el? He can burn Kryptonian symbols into Clark's chest, give Jonathan temporary super power, control that the Kents find Kal-el's rocket, bring dead Lindsey back to life and control her mind, brainwash Clark, talk from the ship and cave and FOS, bring Clark back to life, make time go backwards (and do all these things AFTER he's dead)....... and then he say's "We Kryptonians are not gods" ..... Then what the heck are they? That's just insulting the viewers intelligence! If Kryptonians can do all those things after they're dead, they would not be extinct!

This couldnt be more true. if there is a balance to be kept for someone who isnt technically supposed to be on this planet. then someone should have died when Clarks mom was saved from death, back when she was infected with that krytonite dust? and they had to bring the ship to clean her and bring her back to life? Or what about the Lindsay like you said? there are just to many questions. i dont know if they expect us to forget things that have happened in other episodes? or why the reason for Clark being the important one for all this "Balance" garbage.

one thing is for sure. all this Clark Lana crap had better be over now. because frankly im sick of all the Yo Yo writing thats going around their relationship.

:rolleyes:

[Harmon_7]

Several good points.

[clois1938]

Originally posted by jimmyolsenblues
Its possible now that Jonathan is dead, clark does not want to marry lana. Clark will blame himself forever for Jonathan dying, and the way Clark's brooding character is, its better never to get married.
I agree, I think at this point whenever he looks at Lana, he'll always be reminded of his dad's death. This is not Lana's fault, it's just the way it is. In his mind, she will forever be associated with his dad dying and so he won't be able to be happy if he's with her. And with PaKent's death, now that he's out of his Lana fog, he'll realize that they weren't meant to be as there was no trust in their relationship.

[smallvillerox05]

1. Clark saw what knowing the secret did to Pete: Agent Loder would have killed Pete, if Lex hadn't intervened, to find out information about Clark. Pete moved to Wichita to distance himself from Clark to protect him. Clark knew the best way to keep Lana safe was to keep her in the dark about his secret. It's not like he can spend every second with her.

2. Not necessarily. I thought that too, but we really don't know. It was probably the stress of seeing that picture that triggered it. All of the manual labor he's done in the past proves a tiny fight wouldn't do it. Also, if Clark had been with Jonathan at the time, who knows, it could have been different.

3. Who knows? :lol:

[TARDIS Team]

My biggest problem with the plot was the dues ex machina implemented with that damned crystal. I wasn’t a fan of spinning the Earth on its axis (which should have caused a massive global catastrophe, not time travel) and the crystal is even worse.

I know from Clark’s past history why he would feel the need to undo telling Lana, and I do think that Jonathan Kent was on the way out no matter what he did – this is all fine and well.

However, Smallville is a show that I’m happy to say rarely uses a dues ex machina (literally translated, it means “god from the machine”) and when they do, it is usually subtle. The problem is that this time, the “easy out” was so insanely over the top that it still rubs me wrong a week later.

I wouldn’t hive minded Clark stopping the accident and somehow wiping Lana’s mind (kiss away the memory if he has to, we’ve seen him do it in the films and at least it would be less annoying than easy time travel) would have been fine, but the dues ex machina was on the verge of insulting. It also made Jor-El seem far too powerful.

I’ve always wondered if perhaps Jor-El is actually the embodiment of Zod (mostly due to all the “conquer the Earth” nonsense from the first few seasons, which seems to have vanished) and this just makes it seem more likely. Or maybe I’m paranoid.