"Apart of the Mythology"!? Since When?

[JD2]

On the news page, the interview with Al Gough, he talks about how Johnathon Kent's death is "apart of the mythology" Since when? Johnathon Kent hasn't been dead in the comics since the early 1980's.

Do you want to know what my personal opinion is.... I think "Superman Returns" had some part to play in making Johnathon die. He's dead in that movie, Bryan Singer said he wanted to respect all aspects of the mythology and didn't want to conflict with anything..... well a major part was Johnathon Kent was alive in "Smallville" but dead in "Superman Returns"

I don't know. I'm just mad, and their excuses, "apart of mythology" "This is what makes Clark Superman", etc. is all bull dust. Read current continuity!

[MBCorp]

TPTB just mean that it happened in the movies. The Superman movies are their mythology.

[Summers]

Superman Returns and Smallville are not mutually exclusive. They are on two different continuities. Bryan Singer and AlMiles have said this numerous times.

Futhermore, the "mythos" Gough is talking out about in his warped little mind is the Superman: The Movie where Pa Kent died. These creators have publicaly said they haven't read the comics, but only the movies. The Reeve movies only. Even though they are different continuities as well. In the comics, cartoons, and Lois and Clark Pa Kent is alive and well. Gough has no idea what he is talking about.

heck, this week he claimed he created Lana Lang :rolleyes:.

[MBCorp]

Originally posted by Summers
heck, this week he claimed he created Lana Lang :rolleyes:.

Hee! I saw that. Guess they love her just so darn much that they even have to take credit for creating her. :lol:

Although, in a way he has a point. SV's version of Lana Lang sure isn't like any other version out there.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by JD2
I don't know. I'm just mad, and their excuses, "apart of mythology" "This is what makes Clark Superman", etc. is all bull dust. Read current continuity!

Hey man, what's wrong with the old school. I bet my old school comics are worth more than your current continutuity comics. lol, just foolin' :p (but they really are worth alot more)

[Summers]

Originally posted by MBCorp

Although, in a way he has a point. SV's version of Lana Lang sure isn't like any other version out there.

Not really. Derek and Kram said it best by
They modified. To create the character, they would have to have been one of the original writers of the comic book to be the so called creators. They may have "created" certain aspects of the character, but not the character herself. In fact many of those aspects are actually in some comics before AlMiles's modification.

[MBCorp]

Originally posted by Summers
Not really. They modified. To create the character, they would have to have been one of the original writers of the comic book to be the so called creators. They may have "created" certain aspects of the character, but not the character herself. In fact many of those aspects are actually in some comics before AlMiles's modification.

Good point.

Al's arrogance is truly breathtaking at times. I get the feeling sometimes that he thinks his mopey version of Clark Kent is superior to the comics/movie version. It's typical of him to think that he created Lana Lang.

[Summers]

Originally posted by MBCorp
Good point.

Al's arrogance is truly breathtaking at times. I get the feeling sometimes that he thinks his mopey version of Clark Kent is superior to the comics/movie version. It's typical of him to think that he created Lana Lang.

I wouldn't be surprised. They do think their CK is better than Lois and Clark's CK. Personally, LnC CK is far better. He's so loveable :).

[MBCorp]

Originally posted by Summers
I wouldn't be surprised. They do think their CK is better than Lois and Clark's CK. Personally, LnC CK is far better. He's so loveable :).

They said that? That's so typical. :rolleyes: They probably don't like him just because he's not all angst ridden and mopey. I'd take LnC's version of CK anyday over the whiney BDA.

[BoSoxJim]

mmmm...teri hatcher as lois lane mmmm....

huh, what??? sorry bout that :o

[Summers]

Originally posted by MBCorp
They said that? That's so typical. :rolleyes: They probably don't like him just because he's not all angst ridden and mopey. I'd take LnC's version of CK anyday over the whiney BDA.

Yup. They said in some interview a long time ago. Many of the LnC boards really didn't like that. I don't know. I forget the exact specifics of what they said. Just that they didn't care for it. I love LnC's version. He has so many layers to him, and executed it very well in the first two seasons.

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
mmmm...teri hatcher as lois lane mmmm....

huh, what??? sorry bout that :o

:rotfl: :rotfl:

I do the same with Dean Cain on that show :lol:. Only when he is CK mode though.

[HalJordan4184]

Lois and CLark, was the best take on Clark Kent and Superman. EVER. It was the closest to it's parent mediums take. Though i better watch out, because apparently being the best adaption, just has to mean people liked it better. I've seen people who have never read the comics, watched the movies, or cartoons, or any of that, call Smallville the best adaption of SUperman ever. HOw do people even know, if they don't read the parent medium, or watch or read, or listen to any of the other versions out there. YOu cna't judge soething as the best, without knowing what came before, and what's supposed to be there.

[PETER WEST]

Originally posted by MBCorp
TPTB just mean that it happened in the movies. The Superman movies are their mythology.

Agreed.

Because in "THE SUPERMAN MYTHOLOGY. Jonathan Kent doesn't die .

Only in The Superman movies & Pre-Crisis comics . Did Jonathan Die .

Originally posted by MBCorp
They said that? That's so typical. :rolleyes: They probably don't like him just because he's not all angst ridden and mopey. I'd take LnC's version of CK anyday over the whiney BDA.

lol, I totally agree . Dean's Clark was great. Tom's Clark needs to Grow up .

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
mmmm...teri hatcher as lois lane mmmm....

huh, what??? sorry bout that :o

lol, Yeah Teri's Lois was Hot . :D

[Dude-El]

Originally posted by Summers
heck, this week he claimed he created Lana Lang :rolleyes:. [/B]

Didn't Al Gore say that to? ! :D Back in the day when he said he created the internet....

(ok... I'm showing my age again....) :cool:

[Sarge]

Wait, I thought he said he created Chloe Sullivan for the show?

[~*Lois & Clark Fan*~]

Gough said he created Chloe and Lana. I guess I can see his twisted logic, cause this Lana is the made up character since Chloe is the Lana from the comics.

Originally posted by Summers
I wouldn't be surprised. They do think their CK is better than Lois and Clark's CK. Personally, LnC CK is far better. He's so loveable :).

Best CK EVER :D

Doesn't surprise me they said that but yet they're trying to get Dean on the show :rolleyes:

[Coyote]

I would like Dean to be the new sheriff.

[opera_ghost]

a person could tell in like 5 minutes that this story is based off the superman movies.

Personally, I like what was done with the comics.. but let's face it.. the crisis plot was a marketting decision by DC. (Who was already owned by Time Warner at the time).. to better compete with Marvel.

It allowed them to share characters far easier than had every been able to before.

Personally, I prefer Ma AND Pa kent to still be alive. (preferred it when the did Lois and Clark that way)... but that doesn't mean that the current producers need to be attacked for going against the comic ethos.

At the very least.. in the comics... Superman has been around since the 1930s... they have events in the series that do state specifically when the dates of these events take place. It's a new telling of superman... so lighten up just a touch will ya?

[JD2]

Lois and CLark, was the best take on Clark Kent and Superman. EVER. It was the closest to it's parent mediums take. Though i better watch out, because apparently being the best adaption, just has to mean people liked it better. I've seen people who have never read the comics, watched the movies, or cartoons, or any of that, call Smallville the best adaption of SUperman ever. HOw do people even know, if they don't read the parent medium, or watch or read, or listen to any of the other versions out there. YOu cna't judge soething as the best, without knowing what came before, and what's supposed to be there.

Hmmm.... I would say the first two seasons of Lois & Clark where great, beyond that.... well.... I better shut my mouth I don't want people storming my gates. Let's just say when you have Howie Mandel guest starring as Mxyzpytlyk (sp?)..... yea....

a person could tell in like 5 minutes that this story is based off the superman movies.

Personally, I like what was done with the comics.. but let's face it.. the crisis plot was a marketting decision by DC. (Who was already owned by Time Warner at the time).. to better compete with Marvel.

It allowed them to share characters far easier than had every been able to before.

Personally, I prefer Ma AND Pa kent to still be alive. (preferred it when the did Lois and Clark that way)... but that doesn't mean that the current producers need to be attacked for going against the comic ethos.

At the very least.. in the comics... Superman has been around since the 1930s... they have events in the series that do state specifically when the dates of these events take place. It's a new telling of superman... so lighten up just a touch will ya?


lighten up? Johnathon Kent has been alive in the comics the last 20 years, and it's for a reason. Dying of a heart attack isn't all that common, most people who have heart attacks (or even 2, 3 or 4 heart attacks, look at Dick Cheney) live and function like everyone else. In order to die from your first heart attack it has to be massive, and it wouldn't take five minutes, one of my High School teachers had a massive heart attack, 3 of his heart valves where all blocked, half of his heart died and his wife was told to go home and start making funeral arrangements. It's an absolute miracle he's alive (and he credits God for it too.) but it didn't take five minutes, it was six hours before the doctors told his wife there was little hope.

My assumption is that the writers of the 80's recognized this, and instead of coming up with a new way to kill JK, they decided to leave him alive. Clark doesn't need to become Superman because his adoptive father dies. He becomes Superman because he has a unique ability, and he desires to use it to benefit mankind. Superman is NOT Batman. (From what I've read, Al Gough and Miles Millar have tried to Bruce Wayne-rize Clark) He's not supposed to be mopey and angst-ridden as he is. Batman is my favorite comic book character, but Superman is not Batman.

Anyway, their arguments for taking JK out don't fly. This does nothing to advance the series. They did it for a ratings and marketing ploy, "We couldn't kill off Lana cause she's cute and she's why horny middle school kids watch the show. So let's kill off one of the old farts on the show, hey didn't Johnathon Kent die in the movies? Yea, let's take him out, John Schnider won't mind. He'll probably enjoy the time off!"

[~*Lois & Clark Fan*~]

That's the thing they contradicted themselves, first they say that person who dies has to die because the mythos dictate that, but then they say that the person who dies that the mythos had nothing to do with it.

Anyways Jonathan's death is still a waste.

[Freezeia]

"Apart of the Mythology"!? Since When?

"...hasn't been dead since 1980."

Well then... you just answered your own question didn't you? Why do they have to follow the more recent post-Crisis continuity. There is NOTHING that says they have to and they can take aspects of pre or post-Crisis as they wish so stop whining about it.

[Sharingan]

Wasn't there a report that Gough was asked in for discussion with the Superman Returns production? so.. maybe they solidified the fact that Jonathan had to die in Smallville..

[dsv100]

Originally posted by Summers
heck, this week he claimed he created Lana Lang :rolleyes:.
That was a secondhand quote: someone named Kristin who writes a column at eonline.com (http://www.eonline.com/Gossip/Kristin/Trans/Archive2006/060123b.html) quoted Gough originally as saying TPTB created both Chloe and Lana. Now the page has been edited, either because Kristin didn't quote Gough correctly or Gough chose to correct his mistake; either way, the link now says only that TPTB created Chloe.

[Superboy2]

Originally posted by Summers
I wouldn't be surprised. They do think their CK is better than Lois and Clark's CK. Personally, LnC CK is far better. He's so loveable :).
I think that the LnC Supes was great. He had the Supes part down, and somewhat the Clark, but better than dorky Superman movie version. SV's Clark is growing up, and this is pre-superman, and he has to realize what he was meant to do in life. LnC Clark new what he wanted to do in the first 2 episodes. I like both versions. Also, we never really saw the LnC Clark cry or anything. When his blonde girlfriend died, he didn't cry. He only seemed jealous of his better half.

[opera_ghost]

Originally posted by JD2
Hmmm.... I would say the first two seasons of Lois & Clark where great, beyond that.... well.... I better shut my mouth I don't want people storming my gates. Let's just say when you have Howie Mandel guest starring as Mxyzpytlyk (sp?)..... yea....




lighten up? Johnathon Kent has been alive in the comics the last 20 years, and it's for a reason. Dying of a heart attack isn't all that common, most people who have heart attacks (or even 2, 3 or 4 heart attacks, look at Dick Cheney) live and function like everyone else. In order to die from your first heart attack it has to be massive, and it wouldn't take five minutes, one of my High School teachers had a massive heart attack, 3 of his heart valves where all blocked, half of his heart died and his wife was told to go home and start making funeral arrangements. It's an absolute miracle he's alive (and he credits God for it too.) but it didn't take five minutes, it was six hours before the doctors told his wife there was little hope.

My assumption is that the writers of the 80's recognized this, and instead of coming up with a new way to kill JK, they decided to leave him alive. Clark doesn't need to become Superman because his adoptive father dies. He becomes Superman because he has a unique ability, and he desires to use it to benefit mankind. Superman is NOT Batman. (From what I've read, Al Gough and Miles Millar have tried to Bruce Wayne-rize Clark) He's not supposed to be mopey and angst-ridden as he is. Batman is my favorite comic book character, but Superman is not Batman.

Anyway, their arguments for taking JK out don't fly. This does nothing to advance the series. They did it for a ratings and marketing ploy, "We couldn't kill off Lana cause she's cute and she's why horny middle school kids watch the show. So let's kill off one of the old farts on the show, hey didn't Johnathon Kent die in the movies? Yea, let's take him out, John Schnider won't mind. He'll probably enjoy the time off!"

how do you know that this wasn't to serve the plot? You really don't know what this will drive clark to do... maybe... and the clip they showed from next week's show lends a lot of weight to this theory... Clark will flirt so closely with the darkside now.. that he comes face to face with the danger of his powers. How they could so easily be misused if he's not careful. The reasons why him and batman do not often get along.. is because batman flrts closer with that line than CK ever can. And maybe he's a little jealous of batman's ability to get a little dirty.. without violating his integrity to do so.

Personally, I prefer batman over superman any day of the week.. and as I said.. I prefer a living breathing JK. But, I also feel that far too many people are being far too judgemental without seeing the final product.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by Summers
Not really. They modified. To create the character, they would have to have been one of the original writers of the comic book to be the so called creators. They may have "created" certain aspects of the character, but not the character herself. In fact many of those aspects are actually in some comics before AlMiles's modification.

Where have I heard this before? ;) Don't worry Summers, I won't tell... :p

[Summers]

Ah, from you and Derek. You guys said it better. I'm sorry. When I was posting that I was in a quick rush I forget to put the credit. I'm so sorry. I'll go back and re-edit. I'm so sorry.

[Synergy]

Superman mythology has never really been followed all that much on Smallville. Case in point, in mythology…

1.Lana was a freckled face red-head
2.Pete was white, blonde and freckled
3.Silver kryptonite was fake
4.Jonathan and Martha were not in their early 40’s as shown in the Smallville pilot, but much older.
5.1978 was stated in the pilot as the year Clark’s ship landed in Smallville. We know the year was actually 51.
6.Lex and Clark were never truly friends
7.Chloe never existed
8.Whitney never existed
9.Martha never conceived a child
10.Lois Lane and Perry where never in Smallville
11.Morgan Edge was once Clark’s boss in Metropolis
12.Lex went bald when an experiment he was doing went awry. Superboy put out the fire that resulted and caused chemicals to mix together that caused Lex’s baldness.
13.There was no Ross Creamed Corn Factory
14. Clark told Lana his secret after the Sr. Prom
15. Lionel Luthor was only mentioned in the comics, but never really a character.

Here are 15 different things that Smallville changed that were part of mythology, so it is pretty darn clear that Jonathan Kent did not have to die! I sincerely hope the decision to kill that character comes back to bite all the writers and producers of Smallville in the ass. They have ruined the best show on TV and lost one of the best actors they had. I hope the time comes when they have to get down on their knees and beg John to come back. It would serve them right to have to gravel at his feet. As for John Scheider being understanding about his character's death, I think he was just being the gentleman he is. I read on another site that he truly did not want to leave Smallville.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by Summers
Ah, from you and Derek. You guys said it better. I'm sorry. When I was posting that I was in a quick rush I forget to put the credit. I'm so sorry. I'll go back and re-edit. I'm so sorry.

I was just pulling your chain... No need for an apology. ;) :p :)

[UpandAtom]

Originally posted by Freezeia
"Apart of the Mythology"!? Since When?

"...hasn't been dead since 1980."

Well then... you just answered your own question didn't you? Why do they have to follow the more recent post-Crisis continuity. There is NOTHING that says they have to and they can take aspects of pre or post-Crisis as they wish so stop whining about it.

Jonathan's heart attack isn't taken from any comic. It's strictly taken from the movies. In the comics, Martha and Jonathan die within hours of each other, with Martha being the first to go. And they don't die of a heart attack, but of a rare disease that Clark Kent/Superboy has no way of stopping.

When Al Gough says it's been "a part of the mythology" he's referring to the movies and the movies only.

[MyOwnSuperhero]

"Mythology" and "Canon" really refer to any past telling of the Superman story. The best known, most widely recognizable telling of the Superman story (for audiences today) has to be the CR films. The new movie is also using Superman I and II as it's canon as well. Why in the world should this suprise anyone that SV does as well?

Frankly, because we are not reading a comic book, but are watching a tv show, it's entirely reasonable to follow the films. It would actually make less sense to follow the comics in contradiction to the films, Warner Bros. doesn't want anything that might potentially mess with their new movie.

[Smokethatkryptonite]

If only Clark told Lana in spirit!

[loisnlana]

Originally posted by Synergy
Superman mythology has never really been followed all that much on Smallville. Case in point, in mythology…

10.Lois Lane and Perry where never in Smallville

.

Um there was a few different Golden Age and Silver Age stories about a teenage Lois Lane coming to SV and meeting Clark or Superboy.


It's mostly Post-Crisis and Movie lore that solidifies that they met as adults.

[hotkk]

I didn't see the particular quote from TPTB. Was in smallville is "a part of the mythos" or "APART from the mythos"?

If it was apart, it means that JK can die even though in the recent mythology (post-crisis) he is still alive.

For me, I think it can be a good idea to have JK die. It was sad, it gives the show a different direction, and it might help everyone not fan enjoy both superman return and smallville... So for me, I say it was a good idea. This said, I must admit I'm pretty sad he died. It was one of the best character (except maybe in season 4...) and it gave so much more dept and realism to the show. Schneider will be missed!

[dsv100]

Gough said, (http://www.kryptonsite.com/goughdeath.htm) "part of the mythology," and if I were an admin I would retitle this thread since, as you said, "apart" has the opposite meaning from "a part."

I have to agree with MyOwnSuperhero: "Mythology" and "Canon" really refer to any past telling of the Superman story. Yes. It's not logical to point to one story and go, "This is the Superman mythology" and point to a contradictory story and go, "This isn't the mythology." Good definition, MyOwnSuperhero.

[brainiacowen]

There have been so many version of Superman that it's kind of insane to say that they are wrong by saying that Jonathan's death is part of the mythology...it's like 50/50 at least.

In a few of the versions, Jonathan lives, in others he dies...Martha dies in some too...

The origin has been made over so much that it makes sense to kill him off and say it's the way it is supposed to be...but then again it's not completely necissary...

It's not set in stone like Clark Kent WILL BECOME SUPERMAN and Lex Luthor WILL BECOME A SUPERVILLAIN...but it's still part of the mythology on some degree.

They've made it clear that this show is not in the same continuty as the movies, past tv shows, AND the comic books...it doesn't matter if JK is alive in the comics now, in the Smallville continuity, he is dead...

[UpandAtom]

Seeing as Al & Miles have never read the comics, their definition of the "mythology" is the movies. That's why they had JK die in the same manner as he did in the first film.