"Commencement" - Your Reviews [Archive] - KryptonSite Message Forums

Yuui

05-19-2005, 12:31 AM

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on.
--------------------

Let us recollect my thoughts, shall we?

Praise the lord for the conclusion of that horrible 'Isobel/Genevieve' sub-plot. I am glad it occurred during the beginning rather than the end. Lana's chopper crash was awfully predictable. However, I am glad they didn't drag on her survival until the probable Season Five premiere. Speaking of Season Five, I do suppose it's renewal negotiation were true, as if this season wasn't renewed the ending and openings would leave fans agape and hysterical with anger.

Erica Durance should be in the credits come next season. If we don't get more Clois, I will be sincerely bitter.

Chloe's left in the cave with Lex. I'd say there's a good chance for a main character to be killed off next season. Hopefully Chloe, probably Lionel. Ah, yes, Lionel. Our Magnificent Bastard has returned to his glory! Pleasantly debonaire, his cautionary tale regarding Lana was a cold breeze on a hot summer's night. However, our MB is locked away in a Kryptonian coma and will most likely be the Big Bad of next season (I'll go light on the Buffyverse terminology, I promise). Anyone remember the Freak of the Week who was in a similar situation and ended up being all-powered with the ability to shoot fire from his hands? Yep.

Knowing AlMillar's loyalty to uniformity, I am guessing Jason's dead and The Kents are alive in a similar Lana-situation (e.g., broken leg, fractured arm, but no loss of limb as what would a Pa Kent be without a forearm?). I am somewhat disappointed that Jason wasn't Jason Blood. However, he wore quite the crimson mask.

Anyone familiar with the cast of Superman villians? I am lacking in that field, but I am supposing that what ever comes out of that ship is an entity with some comic importance.

I always enjoy the Superman references, like Lois's dream about a man in a red cape.

This leaves us with Clark and him discovering a Fortress of Solitude, perhaps? I don't know how the mythos goes about the place, but it is apparent that he is in position and in the proper locale to build on the topic. The ending reminded me of the prism deal seen in 'Superman II', although I feel it has some relation to that ship in the cornfields.

Here's to a Season Five. http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/character/1/character28.gif

--------------------
We all live in suspense from day to day; in other words, you are the hero of your own story.

Somebody Stop Me

05-19-2005, 12:36 AM

Yuui

05-19-2005, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by Summers
I'm not going to write an in-depth one yet. Just some few things:
-lol I knew Isobel would be gone when she killed GT :D. Isobel was linked to her by vengence once dead no more vengence.
-as always great special effects
-great scene by Jor-El
-I was a bit irked that Clark didnt embrace his destiny, but was basically thrown into yet again. Oh, well.
-Again, I knew they wouldnt actually show the FoS :). It had cliffhanger all over it.
-Chloe pushing Lex into the wall was excellent
-great instrumental music

At least we got some little bit more info about the stones. Rest should follow premiere. Expecting that arc to follow.

No exposition on the witch arc. No Lex's health reference(figured as much lol). Not a whole lot of exposition per sa.

IMO It was way better than Covenant...thank goodness.

uh, this is odd I thought there would be more reviews by now.

The music was quite befitting of the various situations. It was very complementary.

If they were going to have Lex kill Chloe, it would have happened in the finale, so I'm guessing we'll still have her around come next season.

I am thankful that they ended the 'Wicca' sub-story at the very beginning.

:D

ScrappyTheOwl

05-19-2005, 01:45 AM

I am so giddy...I'm not going to be able to sleep for two days.

Commencement was AMAZING. So many things...

1. Isobel killing GT caused her to be vanquished from Lana's body. No more Isobel (not that I thought she was bad...but one season is enough for the witches).

2. Clark's dream/premonition was really different for Smallville, but it worked. The lighting and creepiness was awesome...as well as seeing the three symbols unite int he sky.

3. I actually liked Lois Lane more than I ever have at any point in the season during this episode. Not that I haven't liked her...I just felt she wasn't as great as she could be. The scene in the loft where she ties Clark's tie was absolutely adorable. For the first time I could actually picture those two being married in the future. And her quips about journalism--awesome foreshadowing in this episode. Erica Durance really did a great job with the scene where she distracts the soldier--she could have overdone it but she played it beautifully. Lois wasn't around for the first meteor shower, so the look of devastation on her face as she looks around at all the destruction was very fitting.

4. Chloe was brilliant, as usual. The scene between her and Clark after graduation was interrupted was nifty...Clark got pretty pissed for a moment but didn't have time to dwell on it--it's like he's scared Chloe knows, but is afraid to call her out on it in case he's just being paranoid.

5. The Chloe and Lex scenes were very dynamic--quite a turn from the fact that he saved her life less than a year ago (though, it was to his own benefit). Chloe yelling "Lex, be careful, it might be dangerous!" and shoving Lex into the wall = priceless. Chloe seeing Clark in the secret room with Lex not able to because he got knocked out yet again = priceless X 2.

6. Lana was great in this episode (imo)...and it was excellent to see her play Lex and realize she can't trust him...and the Clana scene (as well as ones from episodes prior) showed us that she's finally over the whole 'secrets and lies' syndrome...which will most likely give Clark the incentive to spill the beans.

7. Lex has stopped fighting the inevitable. He's bad and he knows it ("I know you can hear me, Dad. I just wanted you to know you've created the son you've always wanted."). He's calculating, manipulative, and he's going to play a hell of an interesting role next season. It's gonna be great!

8. Clark was brilliant. From saving the little boy to the way he told his parents he was staying even after being so upset with Jor-El in the caves--his calmness around others in the face of disaster was so Superman-like.

9. The meteor shower was brilliant. I can see now why the last six episodes weren't very FX-heavy--they pulled out all the stops for Commencement. Commandos, meteors, helicopters, extras, and a spaceship. Oh yeah, add the spectacular lighting, the Artic scene, and the crystal-related effects. Brilliant.

'TO BE CONTINUED' -- looks like this is a two-parter, with the second part being next season's premiere. YES! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS HOPING FOR! If you remember, Tempest had the same message at the end, and was continued with Vortex (Heat jumped to three months later). Exodus didn't have it, and Exile started three months later. Covenant didn't have it, and Crusade started three months later.

Sydafex7

05-19-2005, 02:22 AM

Firs tthings first. Clark saving the little boy was BRILLIANT. For some dod reason it didnt feel out of place at all, even though it was really random. it just shows how selfless he is and I mean here we are has all this tuff on his shoulders and he STILL found time to save someone. He easily could have just said screw it I gott aget to the caves, but he didnt. he saved a life. Clark truly is looking more like superman.

What can I say?? The is by far the best paced season finalie ever. I mean with Covenent, all the cliff hangers whre crammed into the last 5 minutes. There was no build up. I mean Lex gettin poisoned was dumb because we know he lives. Its things like that thay bug me

But wow. This was great! I was on the edge the entire time. The opening scene was BEAUTIFULLY acted by miss Kreuk. She just looked so determiend to win that fight that she gave it her all. And then Isobel totally KICKED ASS.

I mean I got chills up my spine when lana was covered in blood and shaking with fear. That was by far her best performance of the season. I loved her and Clarks scene because she finally realizes why Clark cannot always be honest with her, which, means that well she understands him more and that means that they could be together. (even though they won't.)

Lois an CLark was great as usual. The loft scene was great with the tie and Im glad they showed some Continuity with Lucy..

More continuity with Shelby especially growling at Jason. Excellent.

The army rolling in was pretty damn cool too.

Lex was UN REAL!! I mean he totally lost it in front of Lana and even more in front of Chloe.

Which brings me to my favorite character of the episode. Chloe was AMAZING. I mean she sees clark laying there with the stone in his hand and she totally helps him and covers for him and totally stops les from seeing that it was Clark in the cave. What a friend. Clark is lucky.

AWESOME fight scenes. Lana and Geneveive AWESOME.I love how the tattoo totally makes sense now, It was her destiny to kill her. The whole whitch things seems WAAAY less chessy and stupid now. It actually kina makes more sense in a way and I thought it was well done.

Of course, the entire witch plot COULD have been left out and it woulda still made sense. You could just have Jasons mom looking for the stones. Forget the tattoo thing in paris, Just bring Lana back to smallville not because of her tattoo but because of Chloes death. Now that shes back, She meets Jasons mom who is in SMallville looking for the stone Lex had(she doesnt realize he lost it to Clark). Now, all you need to do is somehow get Lana a stone (either from clark or lex or someone) and then boom, your right back where we are now and genevieve goes looking for the stone and goes after lana, Lana kills her in self defense and boom there ya go no witch subplot. Works for me. lol

Now for some complaints.

That dumb timer actually took me out of the show. It was distracting and I really think that knowing when the meteors are going to hit dont make the epiosde very fun. I dont wanna know when they are coming. I want to be like woah! here they come! Also, it totally ripped off 24m but this is smallville, they rip of everything almost.

how the HELL did jason survive? He gets shot in the heart and falls backwards into a river. I guess the river wasnt all that shallow and he didnt really hit anything but water.. what about the bullet? Did he go to a doctor similar to that of the doctor LEx has for his knife wound in Zero? Jason is still alive and at the kent farm? Damn I hope clark does something to get back in time or I hope lois does something... or.. something..

WHat the HELL is up with Lionel? WHats in his eyes??

Where was level 33.1?? I hate how they totally just ditched that. kinda lame if you ask me. Hopefully its brough up in season 5

Also, Clark says to Jorel "those stones got nothing to do with me". I hate how he always tries to deny his destiny. I know, I know hes yong and he wont fully embrace it until hes a ltitle older and ready to. But come on Clark. He TOLD YOU EARLIER you needed to find the stones and you wasted your time with FOTW's!! I mean didnt you learn your lesson when He ALSO told you to leave or everyone you loved would be hurt? You didnt do that and guess what happened?

Clark needs to start LISTENING to Jor-el.

Also, Clark should know by now when a major event is going to happen. mean dood, A major life changing event happens at the end of EVERY school year dood. See a pattern?

Lois comments about being on the other end of a bumbling reporter dont really make sense to me. I mean shes going to be on the other end of CLark.. WHo, she KNOWS BEFORE they get to the planet. She KNOWS hes not a dork. I mean hes a star football player. He doest trip, he doesnt do anything nerdy. He actually SAVES people. Hes everything BUT nerdy. How the HELL is he going to pull off his alter ego of Clark Kent around her, when she previously knew him? Totally blown. Hopefully the last season of the show she gets her memory wiped out by that kid from Blank!! lol

Last complaint - Lois being able to destract the Soldier. Bogus. How unprofessional was that Soldier? And what are the odds that he knows who she is?? The army is HUGE A lot of troops dont even get to meet the General. Even if he DID recognize her, how is he going to let her push him around like that? Just ebcause shes the daughter of the general?

By far the best season finalie to date. WAAAAAY better than covenent witch felt soo rushed and all those cliff hangers came from no where. Also, you had a FOTW in the season finalie and that TOTALLY ruined it. This one however from the opening scene kept me on edge.

roman1967

05-19-2005, 02:57 AM

Meh...

I was expecting a lot more. There have been better season finales. Even the ending of Covenant put me on the edge of my seat. But this?? No.

Some good:

This ship rocked. (please, please, please be cool in Season 5...)

Chloe COMPLETELY rocked.

Lois was awesome. Great job Erica. You are one of the saving graces in this show.

Kent scenes were equally, if not more, awesome.

Clark throwing the crystal a la Superman: The Movie. Nice nod there.

Evil Lex-ilicious. Great Lex stuff here.

Lana crashed in a helicopter.

There was quite a bit that was bad, though. For example:

Lana didn't die in the helicopter crash. Yeah...I know she has to live, to "preserve the myth", to be the one Clark leaves behind...but we can dream. *sigh*

Cheese. And lots of it. We Superman fans like little nods. I won't deny having a geek FIT watching Hereafter and the cape scene. But there was just way too much super-cheese in this one.

The crystal forming the "shield" before the TBC blackout. More cheese. Could probably have done without it.

Tom. Not very believable in most of his scenes except the Kent family scenes. Maybe he didn't have a lot to work with, but I was really hoping for a "Super" performance from him. (Sorry, couldn't resist a little cheese of my own.)

WTF Moment:

Lionel uploaded with Kryptonian information?? Hope this plays out cool. Time will tell.

Overall. 3 or maybe a 3.5 (but that's pushing a bit). I was hoping for so much more. I know they can do it. They have before.

COME ON, YOU GUYS! WOW US AGAIN!!! WE KNOW YOU CAN!

***walks away, shaking head***

Djonn

05-19-2005, 04:34 AM

Okay, that was bizarre. (I think I'm going to divide this into two rocks, because it's going to run awfully long otherwise.)

While this was definitely an action-packed episode, the writers have clearly recycled their logic and continuity meters for scrap metal.

Genevieve Teague wins going away in the Most Disappointing Archvillainess Ever category -- she goes by herself to the enemy's stronghold to retrieve a known magical object from an enemy with known latent magical powers, but takes only a mundane gun for protection and expects Lana to blithely hand over a stone. For goodness' sake, where are her Evil Minions? Why not simply burgle Lana's apartment, arrange to have her mugged, or otherwise make use of the immense wealth and power she supposedly has? Come to that, why not offer to buy the darned stone rather than trying to take it by force (that being a lot less likely to rouse Isobel's self-preservation instincts)?

A waste of Jane Seymour, who must be shaking her head all the way to the bank.

Thing is, the Isobel/Lana subplot is not so neatly tied up as we are initially led to believe by the quick resolution of the fight scene and the attendant vanishing of the tattoo from Lana's back.

Consider: the tattoo is both a Kryptonian symbol (per the caves) and a mark explicitly connected to Isobel (per earlier episodes). Jor-El seems to blame Clark for a human getting hold of the stone, but he can hardly hold Clark responsible for Isobel's medieval villainy -- yet at the same time, it isn't the medieval villainy that (per Jor-El again) wakes the currently impending disaster, it's the blood spilled when Isobel/Lana kills Genevieve. There's an inconsistency there -- and it is almost certainly not a coincidence that it's Lana, and not (for instance) Lois, who finds the Black Lozenge Of Doom just ahead of the cliffhanger.

Anyone familiar with the cast of Superman villians? I am lacking in that field, but I am supposing that what ever comes out of that ship is an entity with some comic importance.

The most likely answer, given the combination of clues and Superman mythology, would seem to be a Kryptonian "Phantom Zone" villain, as for instance General Zod (I forget who the chief female P-Zone prisoner was, but that's a second prospect).

////

On to the next rock for discussion of stones and Luthors.

OneWayFilms

05-19-2005, 05:13 AM

HOLY MARY MOTHER OF GOD! What a RUSH! If we had episodes like THIS during the season, the ratings would have been through the ROOF. Why did they wait till the end to give us such a knock-out episode? Almost a whole season of FILLERS, and suddenly..out of NO WHERE....BAM...THIS! WOW. This single episode makes buying the entire season 4 on DVD WORTH IT!

To the new writters at Smallville....THANK YOU. THIS is the kind of Smallville we have been waiting for.

Now, with season 5....no more fluff, no more Fillers, just...GIVE US THIS! MORE OF THIS! YES. YES. YES.

Djonn

05-19-2005, 05:22 AM

On to Part Two of the commentary....

The magic-stones subplot makes an interesting bookend to the season, but what isn't particularly clear is just why Lionel and Lex are each interested in the stones. At the start of the season, they're both looking for them in significant part as healing McGuffins, but that issue is no longer relevant to either character. Lionel's body-switch with Clark erased his liver condition, while a Verizon text message tells us that Lex no longer needs dialysis to compensate for his ex-wife's poisoning during last season's cliffhanger.

Yet although both are still fixated on those darned stones, they have been largely content to leave them in others' hands for extended periods. Neither Lionel nor Lex has ever made a play for Lana's stone before the meteor shower shows up, though they both knew she came home from China with it. Lex did try to buy the Swann/Crosby stone, but it's Lionel who makes the first play for it after Genevieve and Jason scoop it up. Nor have either Lex or Lionel gone hunting for the Egyptian stone liberated by Clark at the start of the season.

The result is that the stones are a McGuffin with little meaning, because there's no tangible explanation for why Lex or Lionel want them and what they think they'll do with them once they find all three. Sure, we get the treasure-hunt line, but that's hardly convincing when uttered by characters as wealthy as the Luthors.

////

On to the scorecard. Despite promises to the contrary, no series regular actually died in the finale -- not onscreen at least. The scorecard:

Clark is alive but snowbound.

Ma, Pa, the dog, and Jason are all alive at the Kent farm, albeit staring a meteor in the face. (How many bullets does Jason have in that rifle, anyway?)

Chloe and Lex are at the caves; Chloe's probably temporarily blind from staring down the superlight, and Lex is unconscious, but both those are minor.

Lois is far enough outside the meteor radius to look back and marvel.

Lionel is upstairs at the manor, comatose but sufficiently live to be processing Kryptonian datastreams in his subconscious.

The only onstage death in the episode is Genevieve Teague's, and that might just possibly be finessed even yet (if it turns out that Isobel-the-witch jumped from Lana's body to Genevieve's).

Overall, this was a busy climax but not a particularly dramatic one, not in the character sense -- since the two most significant character moments, involving Clark/Lana and Clark/Lois, are likely to be backpedaled substantially when next season arrives.

lexchloe

05-19-2005, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by Sydafex7

how the HELL did jason survive? He gets shot in the heart and falls backwards into a river. I guess the river wasnt all that shallow and he didnt really hit anything but water.. what about the bullet? Did he go to a doctor similar to that of the doctor LEx has for his knife wound in Zero? Jason is still alive and at the kent farm? Damn I hope clark does something to get back in time or I hope lois does something... or.. something..

Heck if they can make Lana can survive a frelling helicopter crashing then they can certainly make Jason survive getting shot and falling into a river.

4EverSmallville

05-19-2005, 06:24 AM

IMO this finale was phenomenal. It just may be the best yet; it definitel surpassed Covenant IMO. There was never a moment of 'dead air' for me. I went into the episode hoping to see the conclusion of the witch arc, the progression of the stone arc, and a little hint of the FOS. I got all three and am ecstatic. The only real disappointment for me is that the cliffhangers aren't very steep. Whether I should see that as a hindrance or a blessing I don't know. Clark in the Fortress, Lana with the mysterious space object, the Kents and Jason in the house, Lionel unconscious with Kryptonian symbols in his eyes, Chloe and Lex in the caves. Well they were pretty interesting cliffhangers, but not totally dynamic, I was expecting everyone to be in mortal danger; maybe they are.

I loved this episode from the very first scene. The fight b/n Lana and GT was a scene I was very much looking forward to, my only question is why killing GT eradicated Isobel. I suspected it would, but as one of Isobel's two goals was to find the stones, I wasn't sure if she'd stick around to find them.

I also liked the idea of the countdown, almost as if to the Apocolypse or something.

I could easily recap this entire episode, but I'll just mention that I enjoyed all of Lex's scenes because in each of them he revealed his dark side. It was a shame Chloe and Lois didn't get a bit more screen time. I liked maniacal Jason, even though I wish he hadn't gone off of the deep end. I actually enjoyed Lana this episode too, especially her scenes with Lex.

Overall Commencement was absolutely amazing and I am unbelievably anxious to see what happens in the next premiere.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-19-2005, 06:30 AM

Best episode of this season...OMG I loved it. I love all the symbolism throughout the whole show, especially the Superman Movie crystal throw in the arctic....that was the best thing.

Everyone did awesome in their acting. Every scene was packed with suspense, love, or some other emotion. This episode left nothing to be desired other than the long wait until the season 5 premiere.

I applaud the creators for the best episode since the series opener. This beat Convenent and Crusade. WOW, that is all I can say.

RedPhoenix23

05-19-2005, 06:30 AM

This whole episode kicked major as....butt!

I was glued to the televison from start to finish! I didn't dare channel surf once in fear that I might miss a few seconds for fear I might miss a few seconds of the ep!!

Ares

05-19-2005, 06:42 AM

10/10

Only thing that bugged me was the way the helicopter looked in the sky looked a lil corny to me. Overall I loved it :-) it was great an it now has my g/f hooked so thats even better :-D wee!

SGuthrie

05-19-2005, 06:44 AM

UNBELIEVABLE!!! That was AWESOME!!! I SO loved that episode. It was action-packed and intriguing from the first minute to the last! I don't have time to go into a full review now, but I'll definitely post one soon! Some small things to note on... I got chills when Clark saved the kid, loved the part when Chloe saved Clark and then shoved Lex into the wall later, and just so many of the conversations and scenes were brilliantly done! AMAZING!!! Stay tuned for more of my thoughts in the near future...

--Jeff ><>' :)--

knb18

05-19-2005, 07:29 AM

I'm surprised there aren't more reviews by now. I haven't posted much at all lately or done any reviews, but feel like it for this one. I LOVED this episode - and so did the DH. Thought it was better than Crusade even. My favorite episode this year. Yes, things were left unaswered and no 33.1 (which sucks) but still awesome. I even liked Lana in this episode.

And how much did Chloe rock? She'd BETTER be OK!

As for the poster who complained that Jason should have been dead - I argue back. He was obviously shot in the shoulder, not the chest, and that is a classic TV ploy (and same way Morgan Edge DIDN"T die in Phoenix). My complaint with that story line is that I'd like an explanation for why and when Jason turned evil.

But the Lex was awesome and so was Lionel. And I loved when Clark saved the small boy. And anytime I get to hear JE I am a happy camper.

I do agree that the timer was annoying and a rip off of 24 though. And Lois totally annoyed me - I didn't like her lines about not liking journalism still and about working across from the most bumbling reporter. The irony didn't work here and I just thought it was dumb.

If only they had led into the finale better instead of having Ageless and Forever as the most recent episodes... Imagine how great that would have been!

I'm sure I'll think of more later. But really enjoyed this one.

Can't wait for S5!

My final season ranking:

Commencement
Crusade/Transference
Blank
Pariah
Jinx/Run
Sacred
Unsafe
Recruit
Devoted
Onyx
Lucy
Spirit
Gone
Krypto
Facade
Bound
Forever/Scare
Ageless
Spell

clark25

05-19-2005, 07:34 AM

I loved the finale also and I was shocked
and amazed at how good it was.This was
a lot better then the last four season
finales and to you really saw Clark looking
and sounding more and more like SUPERMAN.And to I compared the fortress
of solitude scene with the movie and it
looked just like it almost.And also I can
tell that lex was becoming more like
the movie villan we all know and love
to bad they cut the last 10mins of it
for the Batman Begins stuff I just
wanted to see the fortres of solitude
formation they might be saving that
for the fifth season opener but in all
I am speachless over what I saw last
night it was too much like Superman
the movie but better

Bwookie

05-19-2005, 08:34 AM

Initial impressions.

Second half so much better than the first half.

The good

A ship?!??! sweet
FOS
Chloe and Lex now know a little more
SFX were cool.
Kents getting hit by a meteor
Lionel wth???

The Bad

Isobel/Teagues wrapped up very quickly and poorly considering they were a running arc through the whole season from Spell
Why would Isobel disappear when Jason is clearly not dead yet...getting better
First half was a little slow, predictable and boring and the clock didn't help

Anyways from now on I will avoid spoilers as I think they dampen my enjoyment of the cliffhangers.

8/10 - All for the final half. The first half would've gotten a much lower score.

Clark better know SOMETHING at this point since Chloe pulled him away from the Kryptonite.

Anyone else thinking Beverly Hillbillies when they saw the wicker chair in the Kent truck? I know I did.

WillTheBrave

05-19-2005, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Bwookie
Initial impressions.

Why would Isobel disappear when Jason is clearly not dead yet...getting better

Just wondering. Are you alluding to a certian Monty Python moment here? If so, you are a cool person.

I have to say i liked it. it was well put together and it let me with more questions than answers. Some of you all think that this is a bad thing, but the cliffhangers just make me want to get my hands on season 5 even more. Godd episode. Tied with Covenant.

Bwookie

05-19-2005, 09:11 AM

Yes. Yes, I am. <- Alluding to a beer commercial.

Mr Boejangles

05-19-2005, 09:26 AM

I too was literally on the edge of my seat at times during the show.

It was a lot of fun.

t.ko

05-19-2005, 09:32 AM

Holy snap that was an amazing episode. it revamped my faith in smallville like the first time i watched it. i was begining to think that the show was losing its touch and it was but this finale just pumped this show full of life. i cannot believe all the amazing things that will happen in the season 5 premiere. oh btw this is my first message so show some love to the forum noobie! lol amazing, amazing episode.

Crazy4Smallville

05-19-2005, 09:37 AM

Crazy’s Weekly Review – 4:22 Commencement

Theme: Finales, endings and conclusions. However, just as equally the imposition of new questions, and new beginnings, but of what we are still not sure.

I think I’ll take this review by characters, starting with the best Clark.

Clark Kent meets Superman, but I’m not so sure he fully recognizes him yet, which is really OK, because he’s still in that awkward transition stage. This was a good move. Clark’s world has just been rocked, and he held a cool hand throughout the process, and he didn’t have to do it alone. Clark is surrounded by good strong people, who are responsible for shaping him into the hero we all love. While he struggles in deciding which things in his life should take top priority, the strong support that surrounds him, helps him pick up the pieces of his mistakes. I.e. – when Clark was roaming around in the middle of a crisis, looking for Lana (who should be old enough to make good sound judgments for her own safety, but which Clark clearly didn’t trust she could make on her own) the Kent’s went into survival mode and did what it took to get prepared. Here they have a Super son, who could pack everything they own in a matter of seconds, having to do it all by themselves because he’s distracted over a girl. This really showed their patients with their son. I would have told him to snap out of it, get this stuff packed up, and then told him to super speed around looking for the damsel, that they were sure was distressed.

Also, Chloe – hero in disguise – rescued Clark from the Kryptonite security system set up by Lex (which makes me wonder how much he really knows, because Lex doesn’t know Kryptonite is dangerous to Clark, but Alexander does – which only helps support my theory that it was Alexander that survived the re-emergence of the two Lex halves; and Lex only suspects Clark of having something to do with the stones, Alexander knows the truth) covered for Clark (who btw sped off and left her to fend for herself against Lex. I mean come on, isn’t Clark concerned about Chloe’s safety, too? Do you think he would have sped off had it been Lana?), and then stopped Lex from discovering what Clark was doing in the caves. Chloe has proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that she is a true friend, but not only to Clark. She also stared into the face of danger to try and help Lana, because that’s why she was in the mansion in the first place. I was puzzled why she didn’t tell Lex that was the reason she was there.

Then there is Lois, a support system to Clark that he doesn’t even know exists. The comfortable banter between the two reminds me a married couple. They’re comfortable to be themselves around each other, yet they use their snide remarks to also keep themselves protected from the other. Clark likes Lois, but to admit that to him self, or to Lois, would be for him to reconsider what is truly important in his life. Right now, Clark doesn’t know what’s important to him. He doesn’t know what tomorrow holds for him, or the next week, much less what he wants to do with his life. He’s trying so hard to hold on the life he’s always known, the adolescent dreams, the childhood sweetheart, etc. But, he’s not a child anymore, and he must now choose to put those childish things behind him and become the man he was destined to be. He just doesn’t know what that is, and who would in the same circumstances. It’s tough for the ‘average’ human during this transition in their life. Imagine how much more difficult it would be for an alien, who just wants to be human, but knows that he can’t? It’s completely understandable for Clark to try and cling to what he already knows, compared to a future he can’t even begin to imagine. But, he’s being brave, and he slowly starting to grab the future by the horns, and accept that things do have to change. I think he finally took the first step. I was so proud of Pa Kent, when he let go of his son’s hands, so that he can take that first step by himself. THAT was a monumental moment, however I think it was rushed, due to the fact there was a counter, counting down to impact, which caused a sense of urgency. (There were a few moments when I was yelling at the TV, that they don’t have time to sit around and contemplate – FOR CHRIST’S SAKE, THERE IS A METEOR SHOWER JUST MINUTES AWAY! There’s no time to think, just do!)

Lex/Alexander – was awesome, brilliant, spectacular and a big idiot! I know Lex has an emotional connection with Lana. She fits the profile – long dark hair, manipulative, etc. But, come on! Hasn’t the man learned? How many women need to betray him before he finally realizes that he’s better off using them, instead of loving them? Maybe he should go for blondes? These brunettes seem too much for him to handle. They’re too smart for Lex Luthor, who is supposed to be a genius. His father has proven his genius, but Lex still leaves the question up in the air. The stone was just inches away from him, but he wanted to ‘trust’ Lana, whom he knew was also possessed by the witch Isobel, because he just watched her murder Genevieve Teague, yet he doesn’t take it. What is up with that? He didn’t have any recourse taking the stone his daddy had, but he couldn’t just take it from Lana? Doesn’t Lex also know that his ‘feelings’ for Lana would cause a rift between him and Clark? He knows how Clark feels about Lana. I still say that Lex’s infatuation with Lana isn’t about Lana, but more about being infatuated with the object of your infatuation, which to Lex is Clark (but not the perv sense). Lex knows there’s more to Clark than a mere mutation, and has been fascinated by Clark since the first day they met. I think Lex wants Lana, because Clark wants Lana, and Lex wants what Clark wants. But, then again it could be all about Lana and her superpower over the male species. Just makes me wonder what kind of game he’s really playing.

Why did Lex have the stone chamber protected by Kryptonite? This is another one of those questions concerning exactly to what extent Lex knows about everything – the stones, the kryptonite, the caves, Clark, etc. It looks as if he removed everything that they had in China, plus what they had in Egypt. The big mystery isn’t what Lex is doing or not doing, but what he knows or don’t know. He seems completely clueless sometimes, and then the next minute he has something, or does something that tells you he knows more than he’s telling or revealing. This could be writing blunders, but it still makes me wonder. How long have I been questionable of Lex? Four years now? Will we ever truly know anything about him? Is he insane, is he sane, is he Lex or is he Alexander, is he healed, is he sick, does he love or does he only use, who does he trust, who does he hate, what is he up to, what has he done? I have a feeling we’ll never know. He will always be an enigma to us.

Lex bending over his father and telling him that he was the son he’d always wanted was PRICELESS!

Lionel – He was awesome! Now, he’s like the doctor before, so does this mean he will come out of his coma and have superpowers before he goes completely insane? I can’t wait to see how this story turns out.

Lois – It was good to hear the Superman homage when Clark was suggesting that she go into journalism, and she said she’d probably end up with some geek across from her. That was a hilarious moment in the midst of all the intensity. There was also another funny moment when she’s bantering on the edge of panic, and Clark calls her on it, which helps her get it under control. They work well with each other, because they are free to be themselves. This is the same way Chloe and Clark are, but then there is the intensity between them as well because of how Chloe feels about Clark, and Clark not knowing that Chloe knows about his abilities. I think they will become completely comfortable once Clark knows that Chloe knows, because now she knows a whole lot more after seeing him in the caves.

I also loved that they made Lois out to be more human, when she viewed the destruction of Smallville, and had compassion for the people and the lives that were disrupted by this disaster, knowing they’ve been through it before.

And the dream of a man in a red cape – Oh, I wanted to hear more! What was in the dream? AAH!

Jason/Genevive - I'm so glad this storyline is over. Genevieve was great in the fight scene with Lana. Jason was truly psycho in his attempt to twart the Kents. I loved how Martha kicked his butt. He took a lickin' but he kept on kickin', at least until the meteor rock came. (I hope). The boy really needed to be put out of his misery.

Lana – I’m torn about Lana. On one hand – I like her reaction when she realized that she killed Genevieve. She was clearly shocked and shaken, but then again she showed that she’s not so bright – by trusting a Luthor to handle everything? She should have run straight to Clark, who has proven his trust worthiness all along, yet she lets Lex manipulate her. She does show some sense when she does go to Clark with the stone, but then she returns to Lex. I know he’s helped her in the past, but she knows that he’s involved with these stones, because he was there in China with Jason looking for them. She knows Lionel is involved, because Lionel was the one who sent her to China in the first place. She knows Jason is involved and his mother. Yet, when she kills GT, being possessed by Isobel, she allows Lex to handle things. I understand she was in shock, but come on! When she went to Clark, the one person who has proven to be trustworthy, she should have told him everything, and then got her own butt out of town – not run back to Lex. Besides, it would have been much safer for her than being in a helicopter in the middle of a meteor shower. (Makes me wonder if this is why Lex let her go, thinking that she would probably get killed from the meteor shower, because if you notice, he didn’t go himself.) So, it ends up that the meteors shower is now all her fault, because according to Jor-El – it is a result of Lana killing Genevieve, and her blood that brought it on. Now will Lana be like Clark, and carry the guilt of everyone who will be affected by this meteor shower?

I really liked the fight between Lana and Genevieve, but I was disappointed in the quick disappearance of Isobel. Not one word from Isobel, after all those many of years waiting her revenge. The curse was broken. I guess Isobel’s words to Lana are, “Well, you can clean up the mess, and face the consequences of my actions, since I don’t have to face my own.” So much for Lang/Small family love; but, its not like there’s been any in this family before.

I don’t get the spaceship that Lana found. I’m truly clueless as to where it came from, why its here, what its purpose it. I’m sure we’ll find out next season, but I don’t even have a clue as to what part of mythos it is from, or if it’s a new fabrication, so that Lana will have some kind of role next year.

I love the ending when Clark throws the crystal and you hear the theme music to Superman. But, then I hated it, because it means several months before I see the result. Have I mentioned how much I HATE cliffhangers? I hate them with a passion. They are unjust punishment and torment. They should be banned and outlawed! They could have at least given us previews of the Season premier, but NO, nothing!

I have one major gripe though; there were way too many commercials! I think this episode was just as long as other episodes, but had many more commercials and the 10-minute Batman preview. They only stretched out the one regular episode over a longer period of time. I was frustrated at all the commercial breaks.

This episode was action packed, it was intense, the special effects were awesome, the music was great, the drama was good, and I enjoyed it. It centered on Superman, like it’s supposed to be.

This has been Crazy4Smallville’s weekly review of Commencement. Tune in next fall for my review of the Season Premier of Smallville, which is moving to Thursday nights.

spideyfan

05-19-2005, 10:31 AM

Why did Lex have the stone chamber protected by Kryptonite? This is another one of those questions concerning exactly to what extent Lex knows about everything – the stones, the kryptonite, the caves, Clark, etc. It looks as if he removed everything that they had in China, plus what they had in Egypt.

I think you may have read it the wrong way. Lex didn't intentionally have the chamber protected by k-rock, I think he just gathered all the artifacts he could that related to the crystals and the caves (man hes an obsessive mofo). Some of them having Kryptonite embedded in them was just a coincidence.

I think thats the way it is supposed to be taken in, or i could be completely WRONG. :( ;) :rolleyes:

ImzadiJedi

05-19-2005, 11:43 AM

I really liked this episode. One of the best episodes of the season. I liked the cliffhangers.

- Are Jonathan and Martha (and Jason) alive?
- What was the object that Lana discovered? I hope it doesn't have anything to do with Isobel. I hope that Isobel is dead and gone. I hope it has something to do with Superman mythos.
- What is going to happen to Chloe now that she is in the cave with Lex?
- What did Lex mean that he is the son that Lionel always wanted? Is he now going to be the evil man he is destined to become now? Why?
- Clark? Fortress of Solitude?

It was a nice way to end the season.

SmallTownSuperHero

05-19-2005, 11:57 AM

I never thought I'd say this, but I wish the summer was over already... LOL

I absolutely loved Commencement. Excellent acting, cool scenes, a great story, and so many cliffhangers... season 5 premiere is gonna be awesome!

SteveS

05-19-2005, 12:00 PM

Overall, I thought it was excellent, I even found myself getting excited when ClarkMan went to the Arctic...I kept thinking Superman is coming!

There is no need to go into detail, just a few thoughts. I liked Lana (for the first time in a long time) in this program, she and Clark can have a small amount of time together before he moves on. Chloe was even better in this episode, saving Clark and helping save whomever as a result. She is fantastic and is clearly the girl they should put Clark with for the next x number of years. ClarkMan did well, he didn't want to go his destined route, but he faced it and it would have been scary given all the errant thinking he has conjured up about Jor-el and ClarkMan's destiny. I was also pleased to seem his face 'beam' when Lois announced her leaving. It is clear that he is not attracted to this Lois and I consider that a great positive. Lois left to do whatever and thats good because she desperately needs some direction, maturity, and get over her sarcasm. (oh, the part where she confronts the soldier...Hollywood stupidity. If she was Jenna Bush,she has no rank or authority over the troops. The scene was stupid). Lex, charming fellow, dishonest to the core and in his own words, "I am the villain of this story." He can only get more villainous.

Finally, I thought the flashbacks at the very beginning were a good point and am hopeful that the writers can get their **** together to take Season 5 out in a strong manner befitting Superman.

Supermann

05-19-2005, 12:31 PM

My overall opinion:
THIS EPISODE WAS INCREDIBLE!!!!

Best scenes (not necessarily in order):
- Lionel gets busted lying with stone in pocket
- Chloe saves Clark and pushes Lex into wall
- Lana gives Clark stone and exposes her feelings
- Lana finds spaceship
- Clark plugs in last stone and ends up in Arctic

Crappy (borderline stupid) scenes/decisions:
- Kents taking everything on truck but kitchen sink!
- Lois distracting soldier (ok this was stupid, not borderline!)
- Not enough super powers shown in this episode, I hate it when
the skimp on the super powers! You can never get enough!
- Should have been a 2 hour season finale, like almost every
other tv series out there.

BOTTOM LINE: Props and kudos to all involved in making this episode GREAT!

p.s.
Hope they beef up Season 5 a bit with more powers (ie. more flying!)

Summers

05-19-2005, 12:43 PM

Summers's detailed review

As an episode it was entertaining as a season finale with character development it wasnt much. Season finales are suppose to conclude a good portion of arcs. Here the witch arc and Clana was the only closure. There were some definite inconsisenties, such as:
-the Air stone shouldve have thrown Isobel away. She shouldnt have been able to touch the stone with her bare hands
-the witch arc...it should have been given justice in Forever than here. There should not have been a FoTW in last week's episode.

Good:
-previously intro was good
-Clark saving the boy...total Superman moment
-the Kents and Jason scenes were good
-Shelby, and I like how they should he was protective of his family
-Jor-El's speech
-emphasis on bad decision making by Lana and Clark
-the Artic...I'm not saying FoS because we havent seen it yet
-the main crystal was pretty
-special effects great as always
-music very nice
-the time clock was excellent. Reminded me of the labtop in Independence Day waiting for checkmate

Bad:
-Embrace his destiny? IMO he hasnt yet. He's basically been thrown into yet again. There was no embracing of any kind. He was forced to take the action, or people will die. That's not embrace.
-"we raised you for this"..that irked me as well since IMO that should not be taken now. But in fact in the last season where he supposely becomes what he becomes.
-Lionel's theories: The way they ended Lionel makes me wonder there was no theories as all. What we saw is what we saw. Hence kryptonian data in his eyes.
-We only got two arcs closed, and now we have the ship, FoS, and data Lionel. Since there are arcs still open means there will be more arcs next seasons. These writers are not multiarc people. They cant do unless they darn well try.
-There was no obstacle for Clark and the stones. They just fell into his lap very easily. IMO that was lame, and it didnt feel like Clark didnt do anything.
-no explanation of the whole entire witch arc, or what happened to Clark in the PZ(hopefully this one will be answered in the premiere). Lex's health never heard from again since year.

As an episode in season 4 it was one of the good ones. As a finale it really wasnt due to lacking of character development. Because of the action and fast paced I wasnt bored like I was with Covenant, but now I'm thinking Covenant and Commencement are tied. IMO Exodus and Tempest are the best ones still.

ImzadiJedi

05-19-2005, 12:58 PM

I haven't been a big fan of this season with all the witch stuff. But I thought the finale was within acceptable perimeters... ;)

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-19-2005, 01:10 PM

acceptable perimeters??? what were you watching, that was more than acceptable that was down right the best thing I have seen on TV for awhile.

Hyde

05-19-2005, 01:15 PM

This episode is the perfect example of Smallville storytelling. Commencement alluded to past season story arcs and the episode managed it to finish the witch storyline in a heartbeat (Genevieve's heart beat :lol: ).

There are some questions that will remain. Really cool cliffhangers like we've never encountered them before. Let us begin with the most interesting one:

1) What happened to Lionel?

He was shaking as if he had an absence attack. Was he somehow downloaded with the Kryptonian knowledge (you can see it in his eyes) through the water element?

2) What happened to Lana?

She survived the crash when the pilot couldn't. Her leg is probably broken and she found a spaceship formed like the Superman symbol (so it has to be a Kryptonian vessel).

3) What happened to Lex and Chloe?

Lex didn't see Clark in the caves, he just saw the white light. Where they knocked out, or transported to the arctic like Clark?

I give this episode 10 points. Best one ever!

Koda

05-19-2005, 01:39 PM

Commencement was Excellent! Very gripping and fast paced. As someone said earlier, you really could not leave the room because the stories were moving so quickly:

I loved the interaction between Clark and his parents. I didn't realize how much I missed the interaction between the Kents until I see more of it. I think Jonathan realizes that Clark is not a young teenager anymore, and he's certainly not ordinary. Clark has gone through more than most teenagers, and he's risen above most of it. I thought it was cool the way he showed such confidence in his son. It was interesting that Jonathan was more accepting of Clark staying behind and doing what he had to do (father reaction), and Martha still can't let go of her little boy. As much as she knows Clark can do more than the average person, she wants him safe with her. Great scene.

I enjoyed the Lois and Clark moments. Sometimes they try to cram the banter down your throat, but usually, it's done pretty well, and I really enjoy seeing that humorous side of Clark come out.

Chloe was great. I'm really enjoying her this season, and it's been a plus that she knows Clark's secret. However, it remains to be seen how much more she has learned about Clark: Is he a Meteor Freak or something much more?

I feel that the writers are still rushing Lex's turn to the Dark Side. Mainly, I would never have expected Lex to become physical with Chloe the way he was in the mansion. Usually, he's very controlled and smooth - manipulative. Maybe it was the impending metor shower, coupled with the urgency to get the stones, but he lost his usual cool. It will bother me if next year they try to make everyone friends again as if nothing has happened over the past year.

Lana was great. I have never had a problem with her character (maybe the writers), but I like the interaction she and Clark are having lately. Very nice.

Clark is always great. His character continues to evolve. I think he's becoming more accepting of Jor-el in his life, and I think it's exciting to watch how his relationship with his biological father evolves. I do believe that Clark is slooooowly coming to terms with his heritage and that his father is a stubborn man, but not an evil man. I believe that Jor-el tests Clark so hard because no one else on the planet can go head-to-head with Clark. The only person who can push Clark to his limits and pull him back, without injury, is Jor-el. Jonathan gives Clark all the gifts and tools he needs to shape him as a "human being," and Jor-el gives Clark all the tools and gifts to shape him as a Kryptonian. Both of these sides of Clark are what make him become Superman.

Also, did anyone notice that the ship was shaped like the crystal Clark was holding. Maybe it's not a ship at all but a container of information for him. The legend states that once the crystals are united, the person will receive all the knowledge of the universe. Perhaps the crystal ship contains that knowledge, and maybe only Clark (and possibly Lionel) will be able to understand what is contained within. (Just my thoughts, I could be wrong.)

Overall, an excellent episode. Very well done.

Tyr-El

05-19-2005, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Bwookie
Initial impressions.

Second half so much better than the first half.

The good

A ship?!??! sweet
FOS
Chloe and Lex now know a little more
SFX were cool.
Kents getting hit by a meteor
Lionel wth???

The Bad

Isobel/Teagues wrapped up very quickly and poorly considering they were a running arc through the whole season from Spell
Why would Isobel disappear when Jason is clearly not dead yet...getting better
First half was a little slow, predictable and boring and the clock didn't help

Anyways from now on I will avoid spoilers as I think they dampen my enjoyment of the cliffhangers.

8/10 - All for the final half. The first half would've gotten a much lower score.

Clark better know SOMETHING at this point since Chloe pulled him away from the Kryptonite.

Anyone else thinking Beverly Hillbillies when they saw the wicker chair in the Kent truck? I know I did.

I agree 100%. The spoilers I read (there were a couple) were actually better than the real episode. In some cases (Clark flying to save Lana-both revealing a new power and telling her his secret) a whole lot better. But when, I ignore my overzealous hopes for the finale and look at it as a whole, it was great episodes for sure. I think I still liked Covenant a little bit more because it left you hanging...wheras I felt like this episode left you clueless. For instance, after covenant I waited for months wondering if they had killed off Chloe or what would happen of the situation, etc. In this episode they left stuff in the air so much that I'm not all the way sure of what i should be wondering about- other than the ship- that part I can't wait for!!

Overall 9.5/10 and my second favorite episode of this season behind Onyx "I am the villain of this story". (That might have been the best line of the season)

MANOFSTEELKALEL

05-19-2005, 01:56 PM

Here's mine posted on my LJ site:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/superhulk/3406.html

SupermansNotDead

05-19-2005, 01:59 PM

I don't do reviews, so I'll just list the good and bad points of the epi:

The good:

-Awesome special effects
-the ending, while not really an ending leaves me hopeful for a good season 5 (FOS, possible recurring villain from the black ship)
-Jensen Ackles (Jason) performance was amazing! I usually bash this guy every chance I get, but his was the best performance of the episode IMO
-Dr Quinn is dead, the witch arc is over, and Lex looks to be evil (but we've thought that before, so I guess we'll see)

The bad:

-no explanation (that makes sense) of the whole tatoo, witch, Isobelle, Teague horrible plotline
-Lois (again). She had the worst lines in the epi. The nightmare about a guy in a cape was pure cheese, the being stuck across from a bumbling reporter was even cheesier, made me want to vomit that they forced these lines in there
-we have to wait 3 1/2 months to see the FOS
-that countdown clock was out of place and added nothing to the episode whatsoever

Vatusia

05-19-2005, 02:05 PM

Waah. I missed it and last week's. :(

So0PAH mAYN

05-19-2005, 02:06 PM

i thought it was good...it was the best ever!

MANOFSTEELKALEL

05-19-2005, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by SupermansNotDead

I don't do reviews, so I'll just list the good and bad points of the epi:

psst thats all a review has to be ;)

-that countdown clock was out of place and added nothing to the episode whatsoever

what did you think was out of place? It was counting down to the impact of the meteors :confused:

SupermansNotDead

05-19-2005, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
psst thats all a review has to be ;)

what did you think was out of place? It was counting down to the impact of the meteors :confused:

yah, but the timer skipped like 10 hours ahead at a time, so it meant nothing and did not add to the suspense, and it was annoying as hell. Sigh, Smallville was just trying to rip off 24 and it didn't work IMO.

LoisNClark

05-19-2005, 02:47 PM

wow that episode was amazing. By far the best smallville episode ever. I'm gonna go crazy waiting for the season premiere

wow that episode was amazing. By far the best smallville episode ever. I'm gonna go crazy waiting for the season premiere

mario masta

05-19-2005, 02:48 PM

Best. Smallville. Season Finale.

This episode was so freakin awesome! I especially liked this one because I've been dissapointed over the last 2 weeks. The special fx were great in this episode, and there were plenty of character developments (Chloe learning more about Clark, Lex going nuts over the stones.) Also, the cliffhanger was awesome, with the crashed ship, Lionel having a seisure and with the little Kryptonian symbols running through his eyes, Chloe and Lex in the caves, and the FOS!!!

The only problem I had with this episode was the fact that, like others have said, they wrapped-up the Genevieve Teague storyline too quickly (what the hell was up with her glowing eyes in Lana's dream back in Bound?,) and how they never explained what was up with Isobel. What, did she decide that now she had finally killed Genevieve that she would just go back to hell? :confused:

Other than that, fantastic episode, and I can't wait till the premiere! 9/10 for me, only because of those few plot holes.

Hyde

05-19-2005, 02:57 PM

Jor-El wanted Clark to gain access to the FOS and Genevieve wanted Isabelle to gain access to the FOS.

Isabelle didn't know that. I mean, would she have killed GT if she had known that she would also go to hell?

larryvw1

05-19-2005, 03:06 PM

I enjoyed this ep very much, the best this year so far,

but I have to agree with Tonya,

TOO many commercials.

Time could have been better spent on the show it self.

mario masta

05-19-2005, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Hyde
Jor-El wanted Clark to gain access to the FOS and Genevieve wanted Isabelle to gain access to the FOS.

Isabelle didn't know that. I mean, would she have killed GT if she had known that she would also go to hell?

I was joking about the hell part, but I didn't understand why she left Lana's body. Her goal was to get all the stones to increase her power, and even though she already had one (the Air Stone,) she decided to just...go. :confused:

MANOFSTEELKALEL

05-19-2005, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by SupermansNotDead
yah, but the timer skipped like 10 hours ahead at a time, so it meant nothing and did not add to the suspense, and it was annoying as hell. Sigh, Smallville was just trying to rip off 24 and it didn't work IMO.

wow if anything I thought people would say it ripped off "Armageddon" considering that had a countdown and a meteor...

Mrs.Bizzaro

05-19-2005, 03:36 PM

I liked it a lot. It was suspensful and it didn't waste time - only thing that i was a little pissed at was that the batman trailer took up the last 15 mins of the episode...we got cheated off the 1 1/2 hour episode. But The WB always does something screwy like that. Darn them. :mad:
Ok - Loved the episode. Taped it so I could watch it a couple times during the long long long summer break until next season.

but - just to answer mario masta - isobel was out for revenge on the teague family. Remember that mama teague told jason not to get so attached cause lana/isobel was destined to destroy their family. I think that Isobel just used the kryptonian stuff to help her cast that spell in order for her to possess lana in the future. I think they both, GT and Isobel, wanted to get the stones and isobel paid with her life trying to get them from the teagues. So once she got her revenge the tattoo went away. There wasn't any more reason for isobel to be in lana.

But great episode. Great! Although I too thought that the whole countdown thing was a rip from 24.

Hyde

05-19-2005, 03:37 PM

GT made the possession possible. With her death, the tattoe disappeared. As simple as that. Isabelle ceased, because the spell was reverted with GT's death.

Crazy4Smallville

05-19-2005, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by larryvw1
I enjoyed this ep very much, the best this year so far,

but I have to agree with Tonya,

TOO many commercials.

Time could have been better spent on the show it self.

Somebody's been looking at my profile! LOL!

Originally posted by Hyde
GT made the possession possible. With her death, the tattoe disappeared. As simple as that. Isabelle ceased, because the spell was reverted with GT's death.

BUT, the plot hole was that Isobel was supposed to eradicate the whole Teague family line, which included Jason, yet Jason was still alive when Lana killed Genevieve. It was the meteor shower that might have killed Jason. So, why did the symbol disappear with Genevieve's death, and not with Jasons? UNLESS, Jason was really not Genevieve's son? Oh, the holes!

Hyde

05-19-2005, 03:51 PM

BUT, the plot hole was that Isobel was supposed to eradicate the whole Teague family line, which included Jason, yet Jason was still alive when Lana killed Genevieve. It was the meteor shower that might have killed Jason. So, why did the symbol disappear with Genevieve's death, and not with Jasons? UNLESS, Jason was really not Genevieve's son? Oh, the holes!

It becomes obvious in Sacred ... when Isabelle had the possibility to kill Jason ... she didn't, because she just wanted to kill Genevieve.

Jason led Lana to the tomb in Paris. And it was his mother who made the spell (Jason is no sorcerer and we never heard anything about it ... he was his mother's little toy).

Isabelle's spell we saw in Spell was to make sure she could return to Earth. Okay so far. But Lana saw the ancestor of Genevieve in her dream in Bound. Isabelle / Lana was manipulated by the Teagues all along. Without Genevieve, Isabelle wouldn't have possessed Lana.

I see no hole ...

SupermansNotDead

05-19-2005, 04:16 PM

no hole just a horribly jumbled, terribly told, and weak story arc.

nyjets10

05-19-2005, 04:17 PM

:D :D :D The episode was amazing

I yelled at the tv when it said to be continue:cool:

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-19-2005, 04:31 PM

The ship has to be kryptonian, but not necessarily some relative of Clark. There wasn't an '8' in the center of it, so you can't assume that it is a family vehicle.

I don't think that Lex and Chloe are in the arctic, cause Clark would have seen them around him. I think they are back at the cave wall, and now Chloe atleast should have some reason to think that Clark isn't just some meteor freak, but maybe an extraterriestrial.

I don't know what to think about Lionel. Clark is still on this world, so it wouldn't be safe to think that they are connected and he will come out of the coma when Clark comes back, cause Clark is still here.

I want to know what will happen to Jason with the Kents.

Overall, I am just about to pee with anticipation for season 5, and thank you kryptonsite.com for giving us the WB's show list for next season with Smallville still on it. I am so happy.

Hyde

05-19-2005, 04:33 PM

I have to say that without Jason and without Lana's accident in the helicopter this could actually be the end. The real thing, you know. And it still would be great. :)

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-19-2005, 04:36 PM

oh, i think this would have made an excellent ending to the series, but, I am so glad that it isn't the end.

fash292

05-19-2005, 04:41 PM

ONE OF MY FAVORITE EPISODES OF ALL OF SMALLVILLE ANYONE AGREE I STILL HAve no clue how anyone could dislike this episode it was way too amazing SUPERB!!!!!!! ALMILES GREAT STORY I wasn't that big of a fan of the whole witch thing but it was great witch story atleast this one was!!!!!!!!!!! Amazing...

clarksgirl

05-19-2005, 04:51 PM

OMG!!!!!!! that was totally awsom i absolutley loved it it was great. all the sespendse and drama awsom. so does anyone know - is smallville going to be on every wed. night showing reruns or are they going right into the 5th season or is it not going to be on for a while???

Originally posted by nyjets10
:D :D :D The episode was amazing

I yelled at the tv when it said to be continue:cool:

So did I !!!!

ajfinn

05-19-2005, 05:06 PM

Awesome episode!! Can't wait to watch it 10 more times.

Just one question: Did anyone else find it strange that Clark never seemed to be in that big of a hurry? It seemed that everyone in the episode was racing around & freaked out, except for Clark (except for that awesome scene when Lana gives him the stone! That was some of the best acting ever for Tom Welling). Knowing Clark, he should have looked a bit freaked out when he heard there was a meteor shower coming, but he just stood there for a minute, then walked the girls calmly to the car. For an episode that was literally counted down by a timer, Clark surely didn't do his speedy thing very much. That was my only disappointment - I wanted to see some serious running around to get things done, but it felt like most of the action was happening AROUND him, and then he would just respond to it.

And can anyone figure out why Clark told Jor-el that he didn't have anything to do with the stones? What?!? Why would he even say that? He's known since ep 1 that he was suppose to find the stones. Kal-el ripped off a plane door to get one of them & they've been calling to Clark with that buzzing sound all year. And hello, there's a space for all three of them in the cave ..... but he says he doesn't have anything to do with them??? I don't get it. Someone please explain this :)

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-19-2005, 05:44 PM

He did superspeed around, what did you want him to speed off with Lois and Chloe watching and in front of everyone else? He sped to the stones, saved the boy, to the cave. Everywhere he needed to be he supersped to.

As for the Jor-El thing, I think that was him trying to convince himself (and not Jor-El) that this wasn't his destiny. I think up until he put the stones together he was still thinking that his destiny is something terrible.

Somebody Stop Me

05-19-2005, 05:49 PM

I thought Isobel wanted the stones of power and for the tatoo to go away just by killing off GT left a question mark.

I guess the writers have been coming here hearing all the moaning and groaning and decided that it was time for the witch/Isobel/Teague arc to end and quickly.

Arista 07

05-19-2005, 05:50 PM

I liked this episode. Honestly, I did. I found it to be very entertaining and fast paced. (When I wasn't sifting through an overhaul of commercials.) However, there were a lot of holes in the plot that I take issue with and the character development was shoddy.

You know there is something very wrong when the *first* scene in the finale episode has an error in continuity. Isobel/Lana/Lanabel cannot touch the stones (any of them) without being burned. However, she manages to snatch it up off the floor and stab through Genevieve's chest? How convenient.

The witch portion of the episode was ridden with inconsistencies. Isobel swore revenge on Gertrude's descendants, thereby including, both, Genevieve and Jason. Despite Isobel not killing Jason, the tattoo on Lana's back shouldn't have "magically" disappeared. The only plausible reason the spell would be broken by Genevieve's death is if Genevieve is the one who casted the spell, causing the tattoo on Lana to form. We all know that isn't true, nor does it make sense, given the prophecy surrounding Isobel and the Teagues. Not to mention, Isobel has *never* expressed interest in killing the Teagues. Upon gaining control of Lana's body in "Spell" her first and seemingly only objective was to collect the "stones of power." That is what Isobel resurrected herself for; she had betrayed Gertrude for the stones during the 17th century and continued her quest in current day. Hence, my misunderstanding of why/how Lana's tattoo just disappeared. Don't get me wrong, I love that this witch crap won't be played out any longer. Still, it would be nice if tptb put some *thought* into making this horrifc arc cohesive. They obviously didn't.

On to the character development. What were Lex's words to Lionel, after the seizure? Lex wanted him to know that he got the son he wanted. Is that supposed to be Lex's not-so-subtle way of telling the audience he's evil? You know, like in Devoted when he confinded in Clark about the "darkness creeping over the corners." Prior to Lex's wise words of introspection, he goes to Clark and alots him the chance to answer truthfully about the caves. Of course, Clark lies to him and attempts to avoid the question. But I was stricken by how sinister that was of Lex, divulging that his scientists found a hidden chamber in the caves and having the self-righteous audacity to ask Clark if he knew about it. It's so evil!

You know what I really dislike? Al & Miles promised that this season Clark would come to realize his destiny and accept it. On the contrary, Jor-El, himself, stated that Clark denied his destiny. The way Clark's progression was handled. . . well it wasn't. Him becoming a man (as Bo aptly mused) by choosing football over preventing world destruction, therefore making him directly responsible for the meteors being sent to Earth is seven shades of regressive stupidity. Clark hasn't accepted anything. He was coarsed into saving the world, by the threat of the meteors destryong the ones he loved. Had the meteor shower occurred in any other location, Clark (IMHO) wouldn't have lifted a hand. I still can't see him as Superman.

I really think Jason's re-emergence was overkill (excuse the pun.) If the writers wanted to put the Kents in some form of imminent danger, there was a plethora of other hinderences they could have thrown ini their path. Futhermore, I wouldn't be scratching my head as to why solely Genevieve was killed.

The FX were nice, omitting that dreadful CGI helicopter. Once it was aerial, it didn't look real at all. I think Chloe was awesome in the role of Clark's guardian angel. (Had to stick that somewhere.)

In conclusion, I certainly wouldn't rank "Commencement" among Smallville's best episodes (finales, maybe). I really can't make that declaration, mainly because it was the culmination of an entire season of stagnancy and nonsensical plotting. However, I think Slavkin & Swimmer capatilized on what little they had to work with. It was better than expected and very entertaining.

superdad

05-19-2005, 05:54 PM

I enjoyed the tribute to the Superman movie and Christopher Reeve by the Green Crystal being created and used my Clark to build the FOS.

Hyde

05-19-2005, 06:07 PM

"Isobel/Lana/Lanabel cannot touch the stones (any of them) without being burned."

When was this established?

The only time Lana was burned was in Spell. In Sacred she held it in her hands. Okay, she wrapped it in a cloth, but if something can burn a person, it could easily burn through the cloth, give an electro shock or whatever.

Superman1018

05-19-2005, 06:12 PM

Commencement was probably the best season finale yet! It had everything you could ever want in a Smallville episode. The whole cast had an excellent performance. Yet it did have a flaw or two.

Pros-
1. Lex's evil side finally comes out.
2. Genevieve finally dies. She got so annoying.
3. Clark retrieves the stones.
4. Chloe throwing Lex into the wall was great. It brought a tear to my eye.
5. Lois
6. Lana
7. Chloe

Cons-
1. CLIFF HANGER!
2. Too many commercials.

I just have one question that's going to be killing me all summer: IS LIONEL GOING TO DIE? I really hope not. He's just awesome.
In conclusion this episode gets 6 out of 5 stars.

mario masta

05-19-2005, 06:16 PM

I'm not sure if he'll die or not. Maybe he'll be like Dr. Walden from Season 2 where he has powers and can read the Kryptonian language. He might be a villain, or maybe he'll help Clark (since it LOOKS like he killed Jason to protect Clark's secret.) We shall see in 4 months. :)

Hyde

05-19-2005, 06:20 PM

Lionel will be enlightened. Walden was too dumb to comprehend the knowledge he had been given. I wonder if Lionel will get this fancy hand weapon, too. :)

When Lionel lay on the floor I asked myself: Is this the character who was supposed to die? Then I thought: NO, can't be. That would be a waste of talent. This is why I don't think Lionel will die this easily. The Kryptonian letters in his eyes also prove he will be in the game again, soon.

Macintosh Superman

05-19-2005, 06:35 PM

first off i have a thing for Lois/erica durrance. have to make a point to ask why she is always in huge PJ? What in smallville no Nightgowns ?

Ok i was blown away last night by the finish.

lana out of 4 finale tow of them she is driving or flying in a huge hell storm.Except no clark to save her.

Fortress of solitude season 5 !!!

Finally will they have him fly !

lots of little subtle dialogue about SUPERMAN.Lois about her dream of a man in a red cape with a big S on it !!

clark made a few remarks too.

The worst part was when Lex walks in sees this huge steel door ripped off its foundation asks Chloe who did it . Well it wasn't her .

I see that others think that Lionel brain is being flooded with Krptonium messages. i thought it was clark getting all of Lionel's memory and intelligence.

Will lionel survive ?

I thought Lois climbing the hill was going to see the Kents Farm in ruins .

WTF is up with the lana final scene ? never ever remember in any superman Tv/movie comic that lana lang ever saw any out of this world stuff this early on .

pyrrhoniansceptic

05-19-2005, 06:54 PM

After keeping us in holding patterns of plot incoherence, arc disjointedness, and character underdevelopment for most of the season, TPTB came up short when it mattered most. Their three principal sins were: overcompressing time, embarrasinly using a "24"-style countdown clock to do it; continuing to use Lois as annoying light banter filler; going from a power-obsessed, morally divided Lex to one completely gone over to the dark side.

Lex seemed to be talking more to the fans than to Lana with his "I care for you more than you know," coming as it did near the end of a firesale of forced apocalyptic pep talk, lecture, platitude and bonding. The on-cue military roll-up with shots of the Kansas state flag, the Crow logo, and the stars and stripes (several flags, multiple shots) was just too much. Though the special effects themselves were impressive as usual, they seemed placed more as distraction than integration. Overall, the episode felt rushed and overperformed.

TPTB simply did not earn the cliffhanger status of this season's finale.

Finally, two recurring complaints: 1) there were way too many commercials and 2) there should be no in-show ads. A sample to loathe: Verizon: "Be carefree while we act like we own Smallville"; Toyota: "Moving you forward--alone"; Wendy's + Friday's + Chili's: "Saturated fat. Yum!"; Diet Dr. Pepper/Pepsi: "Wash down that saturated fat with us!"; Reba: "Alcoholism is funny!"; Batman: "Kill the criminals!"; Paramount/Chris Rock: "Canibalism is funny!"; One Tree Hill: "Revenge is sweet!" ("Your father can burn in hell for all I care!"); Rice-a-Roni: "Marriage is not as serious as Rice-a-Roni is fast"; Master Card: "Rigged and unfair credit card debt is funny!"; Diet Snapple: "People are bad, Snapple is good!"; Maxi-pads: "Looking pretty!".

Arista 07

05-19-2005, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Hyde
"Isobel/Lana/Lanabel cannot touch the stones (any of them) without being burned."

When was this established?

The only time Lana was burned was in Spell. In Sacred she held it in her hands. Okay, she wrapped it in a cloth, but if something can burn a person, it could easily burn through the cloth, give an electro shock or whatever.
I was wrong in saying Isobel could not touch the crystals, without resulting in burns. In "Spell" Isobel touched the fire crystal and was burned. In Sacred, Isobel touched the air crystal and was blown away. Regardless, Isobel cannot touch the air or fire crystal, that much has been established.

Hyde

05-19-2005, 07:15 PM

"In Sacred, Isobel touched the air crystal and was blown away"

Clark and Lana touched them at the same time, didn't they? Clark was also blown away.

F-Stop Blues

05-19-2005, 07:35 PM

Am i missing something? When did isobel get blown away by touchign the air crystal in sacred? At the end with clark? She still touched it through out that ep, so i wouldnt say the begining of commencement is a plot hole. Also lex was able to touch the fire stone in crusade, i know it glowed but it didnt hurt him in anyway.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-19-2005, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Somebody Stop Me
I thought Isobel wanted the stones of power and for the tatoo to go away just by killing off GT left a question mark.

I guess the writers have been coming here hearing all the moaning and groaning and decided that it was time for the witch/Isobel/Teague arc to end and quickly.

No, it does make sense. Isobel vowed to come back from the dead and avenge her conspirator (i.e. GT). The stones were just another quest in her path. She would use the stones to get the power to rule, and also take over Lana's body for good. But, she killed GT before that could happen, and thus removed her own curse and releasing Lana from her hold.

Originally posted by F-Stop Blues
Am i missing something? When did isobel get blown away by touchign the air crystal in sacred? At the end with clark? She still touched it through out that ep, so i wouldnt say the begining of commencement is a plot hole. Also lex was able to touch the fire stone in crusade, i know it glowed but it didnt hurt him in anyway.

In Sacred, Clark was in the room, and the crystal was calling to him to grab it. Everyone flew back because everyone was going after it at the same time, including Lex.

In this episode, the crystal was calling to Clark because he had the other two stones, and Lex reached for it when it was at it's most powerful calling, mainly because the other two stones had been united. They always seem to freak when an genuinly evil source tries to take them, and this time it was wanting to be picked up by only Clark.

dhacker615

05-19-2005, 08:05 PM

Overall, I'd rate the episode an 8 out of 10.

That puts it in the top two of this season (this and 'Crusade'), but below the best of seasons 1-3. There was a lot more to like than not, but it was not perfect. It probably won some fans back, but 'Smallville' needs to stay near this level more consistently through the season to stop the ratings errosion. Here is how I saw it:

Good -
- The Lois & Clark dynamic is finally right. The bickering attraction is there and it motivates them in semi-plausible ways.
- The scenes with Kents and Clark were very strong and believable. Johnathan gave Clark his permission to become Superman and Martha accepted it. That is one of the biggest moment in this series.
- The set-up for the Fortress of Solitude was excellent. It echoed 'Superman: the Movie' just enough, but tied in the 'Smallville' cave mythology nicely.
- The Lex/Lana stuff was fantastic. Seeing Lex go back and forth in his mind between the young man we know from 'Smallville' and the fiend from the comics was perfect. Lana reacted perfectly.
- Chloe paid off the revelation of Clark's powers really well. The 'secret helper' role suits her, provided it doesn't go on forever.
- The scene with Lana and Clark in the barn was fairly strong. They have over-teased their relationship, so I get impatient. However, the actors are pretty good at drawing you back into their connection.

The Bad -
- The witches sub-plot was horrible. It wrapped up as cheesily as it had played out. At least it provided an impetus for Lana to go to Lex.
- The Kent trapped in the house as the metor hit with Jason Teague was too predicatble. Jason is leaving for his own show, so the heavily built up character is a complete dead end.
- Why wasn't Clark more directly involved with saving more people? It was his step from 'Superboy' to Superman and, yet, he was totally passive to the metor shower. The notion that putting the stones in the cave saved the world was a bit too abstract for my taste. More to the point, Jor-El was implied as the cause of the meteor shower and, yet, Clark capitulated to his demands after two seasons of resistence. Isn't that a huge defeat?

The concerns -
- The spaceship could be any of three things (IMO). It could be Kara Zor-El (or Supergirl), Brainiac, or the Phantom Zone criminals. The first option is probably the best, but they have already taken a crack at Kara (albiet a weak one) in the Season 3 finale.
- The Fortress of Solitude is a huge deal, so I hope the writers don't soft peddle it. The big mistake this year was stepping back from Clark flying after Kal-El flew in 'Crusade'. I know the path from the Clark of Season 1 to Superman won't be direct, but some steps shouldn't be untaken. If Kal-El can fly, then they should show Clark learning how to deal with that. If they send Clark to the Arctic with that artifact, then Clark should spend next season learning about the FOS.

NewAgeJesus

05-19-2005, 08:37 PM

Good episode.

But, damn I hate cliffhangers. :p

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-19-2005, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by dhacker615
Overall, I'd rate the episode an 8 out of 10.

That puts it in the top two of this season (this and 'Crusade'), but below the best of seasons 1-3. There was a lot more to like than not, but it was not perfect. It probably won some fans back, but 'Smallville' needs to stay near this level more consistently through the season to stop the ratings errosion. Here is how I saw it:

Good -
- The Lois & Clark dynamic is finally right. The bickering attraction is there and it motivates them in semi-plausible ways.
- The scenes with Kents and Clark were very strong and believable. Johnathan gave Clark his permission to become Superman and Martha accepted it. That is one of the biggest moment in this series.
- The set-up for the Fortress of Solitude was excellent. It echoed 'Superman: the Movie' just enough, but tied in the 'Smallville' cave mythology nicely.
- The Lex/Lana stuff was fantastic. Seeing Lex go back and forth in his mind between the young man we know from 'Smallville' and the fiend from the comics was perfect. Lana reacted perfectly.
- Chloe paid off the revelation of Clark's powers really well. The 'secret helper' role suits her, provided it doesn't go on forever.
- The scene with Lana and Clark in the barn was fairly strong. They have over-teased their relationship, so I get impatient. However, the actors are pretty good at drawing you back into their connection.

The Bad -
- The witches sub-plot was horrible. It wrapped up as cheesily as it had played out. At least it provided an impetus for Lana to go to Lex.
- The Kent trapped in the house as the metor hit with Jason Teague was too predicatble. Jason is leaving for his own show, so the heavily built up character is a complete dead end.
- Why wasn't Clark more directly involved with saving more people? It was his step from 'Superboy' to Superman and, yet, he was totally passive to the metor shower. The notion that putting the stones in the cave saved the world was a bit too abstract for my taste. More to the point, Jor-El was implied as the cause of the meteor shower and, yet, Clark capitulated to his demands after two seasons of resistence. Isn't that a huge defeat?

The concerns -
- The spaceship could be any of three things (IMO). It could be Kara Zor-El (or Supergirl), Brainiac, or the Phantom Zone criminals. The first option is probably the best, but they have already taken a crack at Kara (albiet a weak one) in the Season 3 finale.
- The Fortress of Solitude is a huge deal, so I hope the writers don't soft peddle it. The big mistake this year was stepping back from Clark flying after Kal-El flew in 'Crusade'. I know the path from the Clark of Season 1 to Superman won't be direct, but some steps shouldn't be untaken. If Kal-El can fly, then they should show Clark learning how to deal with that. If they send Clark to the Arctic with that artifact, then Clark should spend next season learning about the FOS.

How would you have had the witch story end? It served it's purpose, and that was to provide a subplot to the stones. You would not have wanted to see that drawn out for 20 or 30 minutes of this show. Clark wasn't directly involved in saving more people because he had to find the stones fast. You can't divide you time up between stopping this from happening, and saving those that get caught in the crossfire. The only reason that the Jason/Kent scene was predictable was because the spoiler for that leaked out months ago. Jor-El wasn't implied as the cause of the shower, he even said that he didn't cause it, he said that it was unavoidable, but that fact that Clark didn't find the stones when he was supposed to and allowed one to have human blood spilled on it, and awaken some unspeakable evil, that it was Clark's fault for not accepting his destiny sooner. It would have been a much lesser event had he found them when he was supposed to. Clark gave into Jor-El's demands this time because it was either do what he says, or allow Earth to be destroyed...hm...that's an easy one. The ship is supposed to hold some unspeakable evil, so it won't be Kara. Though her being easily corrupted isn't good, she still can't be considered evil. Zod and his henchman??? nope, not possible, because if they do that, then that would mean that they aren't in the phantom zone which they are supposed to be. As for Brainiac, that is a complete shot in the dark. It is plausible to think that it is a creature/being from Krypton because of the shape of the ship, but not Clark's family, because there wasn't a big '8' on the top. Also, it's black, and proves that whatever is inside is evil. As for Clark not pursuing the flying more, he doesn't want to. He was freaked out in Season 1 when he thought he dreamt flying, and was freaked in this seasons opener when he remembered flying as Kal. If you remember, him and his father agreed to put all this stuff (stones, Jor-El, Kal, and the flying) behind him so that he could enjoy his last year of high school more fully. I do agree with you that the should have him exploring more of the FOS in season 5, and not have it only appear in the opener or something like that.

Last thing...8??? atleast give it a 9...if not a 10. There was non-stop action, adventure, suspense, and emotion. It was like watching a suspense/action movie, but starting in the middle where all the best stuff happens.

cayayofm

05-19-2005, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by Arista 07
It wasn't that great. I wish the special effects could make up for all the inconsistencies within the plot and shoddy character development but they don't resonate with me. Commencement was above average by season four standards. That is all.

I'll type an indepth review later.

Totally agree with you on that. A couple of inconsistencies and a little bit rushed.

The speciel effects were excellent; as usual.

Originally posted by Somebody Stop Me
Typical.

Way out of line. :o

Originally posted by ScrappyTheOwl
'TO BE CONTINUED' -- looks like this is a two-parter, with the second part being next season's premiere. YES! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS HOPING FOR!

What you were hoping for?? That's what we get EVERY year, only without the "To be continued."

Originally posted by Sydafex7
What can I say?? The is by far the best paced season finalie ever. I mean with Covenent, all the cliff hangers whre crammed into the last 5 minutes. There was no build up. I mean Lex gettin poisoned was dumb because we know he lives. Its things like that thay bug me

WHAT!? And this episode didn't bug you.
What happened to Lex last year is what happened to Lana (which was the most improbable thing ever!!; I mean, she hits the ground, literally, and she didn't die; but the pilot who is farther from the hit (and has more probabilities of living) died. COME ON!!).

And we know that the Kents are going to survive (and I'm guessing that Jason won't), even though the meteor landed on them!

[I'm thinking that the writers think of us like idiots who fall for EVERY little trap they pull... I'm losing respect for them. :mad: ]

Arista 07

05-19-2005, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by Hyde
"In Sacred, Isobel touched the air crystal and was blown away"

Clark and Lana touched them at the same time, didn't they? Clark was also blown away.
:rotfl:

What are you implying? That Clark caused the air stone's reaction? Do I even have to debate that one? And just for the sake of fun, why was Isobel burned by the fire crystal? Do you see the correlation? Isobel's skin can obviously not be in direct contact with the stones. Ergo, obvious plothole.
Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
No, it does make sense. Isobel vowed to come back from the dead and avenge her conspirator (i.e. GT). The stones were just another quest in her path. She would use the stones to get the power to rule, and also take over Lana's body for good. But, she killed GT before that could happen, and thus removed her own curse and releasing Lana from her hold.
It really didn't. It was relayed to the audience by Genevieve that Isobel's descendant (Lana) would avenge her ancestor's death. Hence, Genevieve's wariness toward Lana. The reason for Isobel's betrayl of Gertrude was for the stones. Everything Isobel did, was in reference to the "stones of power." If her pursuit of the crystals was a mere side quest when, in reality, that's all we saw her do, then what can be said of her attacks on Genevieve's and Jason's lives. That's right, nothing. Isobel showed no interest in killing Jason or discovering the whereabouts of Genevieve Teague.

Where are you getting this using the stones to take over Lana's body for good idea? Also, what does Genevieve's death have to do with breaking the "curse" Lana was under? Even if destroying Genevieve was Isobel's main objective (which it wasn't), how does that manifest into Isobel's spell being broken? Dude, plothole.

MBCorp

05-19-2005, 09:29 PM

That's what drove me nuts, it seemed like all throughout season 4 Isobel cared more about getting the stones than she did in killing GT. I mean, I've had to sit through this miserable witch arc all season long, and yet in the end it really achieved nothing! Just like I had to sit through a reformed Lionel when there was really no point in that storyarc either. It's amusing to see people trying to fanwank the badly written and inconsistant witch story arc and putting more thought into it than tptb probably did.:p Oh well, this was still a great episode, even if it leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

cayayofm

05-19-2005, 09:34 PM

...And what was that about the meteor shower being Lana's/Issabelle''s fault, because she murdered someone with the stone?
Pfft! That's the lamest reason ever!!! I mean, we really don't need a reason for the meteor showers to hit. It doesn't make ANY sense. The connection was simply stupid.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-19-2005, 09:48 PM

no, the meteor shower was coming anyway, but because blood was spilled on the stone it awakened an evil that came to earth in along side the shower.

Originally posted by Arista 07
:rotfl:

What are you implying? That Clark caused the air stone's reaction? Do I even have to debate that one? And just for the sake of fun, why was Isobel burned by the fire crystal? Do you see the correlation? Isobel's skin can obviously not be in direct contact with the stones. Ergo, obvious plothole.

It really didn't. It was relayed to the audience by Genevieve that Isobel's descendant (Lana) would avenge her ancestor's death. Hence, Genevieve's wariness toward Lana. The reason for Isobel's betrayl of Gertrude was for the stones. Everything Isobel did, was in reference to the "stones of power." If her pursuit of the crystals was a mere side quest when, in reality, that's all we saw her do, then what can be said of her attacks on Genevieve's and Jason's lives. That's right, nothing. Isobel showed no interest in killing Jason or discovering the whereabouts of Genevieve Teague.

Where are you getting this using the stones to take over Lana's body for good idea? Also, what does Genevieve's death have to do with breaking the "curse" Lana was under? Even if destroying Genevieve was Isobel's main objective (which it wasn't), how does that manifest into Isobel's spell being broken? Dude, plothole.

Ah, but GT is the only reason that Isobel really got her mark on Lana so that she can take over her body. Remember, it was GT that somehow (it was never really explained) got Lana to come to Paris, and Jason that got Lana to her tomb. So, it could be safe to say that GT was Isobel's real link to this world, and when she killed her it severed that link releasing Lana.

MBCorp

05-19-2005, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
Ah, but GT is the only reason that Isobel really got her mark on Lana so that she can take over her body. Remember, it was GT that somehow (it was never really explained) got Lana to come to Paris, and Jason that got Lana to her tomb. So, it could be safe to say that GT was Isobel's real link to this world, and when she killed her it severed that link releasing Lana.

But you're just fanwanking here.

BoguszX

05-19-2005, 10:03 PM

IMO the only thing that bothered me was the ending- Clark throwing the Stone and then 'To Be Continued'... Its not much of a cliffhanger ending. But I do wish that episode lasted forever...

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-19-2005, 10:05 PM

I love him throwing the stone, it was so symbolic, and down right replicant, of the movie, I loved that scene. But, I was hoping for just a little more. I mean that episode was an hour and a half and it seemed to just fly by, cause it was so good. I want more...can't wait till the premiere

MizunoAmi

05-19-2005, 10:11 PM

the short version:
1. lois is frickin' AWESOME! (anyone else notice tom's best acting is done around her?)
2. i could actually see a glimmer of superman in clark.. there may be hope for the big dumb alien yet!
3. i thought my nausea at the clana kiss would have been justified with lana being killed in the helicopter crash, but alas... only my hopes suffered damage. if you ask me, with all that she's been through, it would seem *she'd* be the one ending up in an asylum... poor girl...
4. lex is awesome too
5. superman better build a shrine for chloe who is quite possibly the most dedicated friend in the world: to him and lana

all in all, great episode. possibly best ever...

Arista 07

05-19-2005, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by MBCorp
That's what drove me nuts, it seemed like all throughout season 4 Isobel cared more about getting the stones than she did in killing GT. I mean, I've had to sit through this miserable witch arc all season long, and yet in the end it really achieved nothing! Just like I had to sit through a reformed Lionel when there was really no point in that storyarc either. It's amusing to see people trying to fanwank the badly written and inconsistant witch story arc and putting more thought into it than tptb probably did.:p Oh well, this was still a great episode, even if it leaves a lot of unanswered questions.
I'm with you. Good episode, but it certainly wasn't without fault.

DarkseidX

05-20-2005, 12:06 AM

I literally stood up and started clapping when the tattoo on Lana's back dissapeared, I was like FINALLY THIS NIGHMARE IS OVER!!!!

And by nightmare I meant the witch plot.

Kal-El's Girl

05-20-2005, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by DarkseidX
I literally stood up and started clapping when the tattoo on Lana's back dissapeared, I was like FINALLY THIS NIGHMARE IS OVER!!!!

And by nightmare I meant the witch plot.

I was a little sad. Isobel was so eeevil!! Guess that I've been watching too much Charmed. hehe:rotfl: Anyway, the season finale was awesome as always. I was just stuck to the screen as the ship door was opening in front of Lana and the crystal flew from Clark's hand getting ready to build the FOS. Man, I can't wait for next season. Lex's evil side sure came quick though. I thought he would go evil later in season 5 but meh. Anyway, I can't stress how much I loved the finale. I'll probably watch it again this weekend.;)

DarkseidX

05-20-2005, 12:27 AM

I was a little EH about the finale. It was really kind of boring. I didn't enjoy it too much.

Like I liked the end of the witch plot and the beggining of 60% Evil Lex, but the truth was, this finale kinda sucked.

I liked Covenants ending. And I think overall, Tempest was the best overall because it was just so great the way they ended season 1.

samfish

05-20-2005, 12:34 AM

I loved it. One of the best episodes of the show ever, if you ask me. I'll say this much- they DO know how to give this show a consistently good season finale!

I LOVED the scene where Clark ran in and saved the little boy just as the meteor was about to hit. And with the father's reaction, it had "Superman" written all over it.

Overall, I think they pulled it off flawlessly. All the story ends were drawn together seamlessly by the very end. I can't wait until we find out what was in that ship...

One of the coolest episodes of any show I've ever seen, I dare say. 10/10!

Somebody Stop Me

05-20-2005, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by MBCorp
But you're just fanwanking here.

?:confused: Fanwanking?

Originally posted by DarkseidX
I literally stood up and started clapping when the tattoo on Lana's back dissapeared, I was like FINALLY THIS NIGHMARE IS OVER!!!!

And by nightmare I meant the witch plot.

Too funny.:lol:

Originally posted by DarkseidX
I was a little EH about the finale. It was really kind of boring. I didn't enjoy it too much.

Like I liked the end of the witch plot and the beggining of 60% Evil Lex, but the truth was, this finale kinda sucked.

And I think overall, Tempest was the best overall because it was just so great the way they ended season 1.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Did anybody notice that AlMiles only wrote of the episode this season? They usually write 3 or 4 a year.

dhacker615

05-20-2005, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
How would you have had the witch story end? It served it's purpose, and that was to provide a subplot to the stones. You would not have wanted to see that drawn out for 20 or 30 minutes of this show.

No, I would not have wanted to have seen the whole episode centered on the witches. I am just tired of characters endlessly doing things when they are 'not themselves'. It is getting repetative with Clark on the Red K, or Lana possesed, or Pete & Chloe possesed by aliens, or Lex split from his bad side, etc. I like these characters and I want to see them make their own choices and live with them. Lana suddenly having a total personality change that enables her to dispatch the problem with no moral consequences is not really that interesting anymore. I loved 'Red' and 'Nicodemus' as much as the next guy, but that theme is sort of played out.

Clark wasn't directly involved in saving more people because he had to find the stones fast. You can't divide you time up between stopping this from happening, and saving those that get caught in the crossfire.

I liked that they at least gave a nod to Clark saving folks. On the other hand, the problem was somewhat of his own making. Trying to head off additional consequences to other people from your own mistakes is not exactly heroic. It is more like someone who litters collecting trash on the highway in an orange vest. It is fine that Clark isn't perfect, but an episode called 'Commencement' should have our hero doing more than just making ammends.

The only reason that the Jason/Kent scene was predictable was because the spoiler for that leaked out months ago. Jor-El wasn't implied as the cause of the shower, he even said that he didn't cause it, he said that it was unavoidable, but that fact that Clark didn't find the stones when he was supposed to and allowed one to have human blood spilled on it, and awaken some unspeakable evil, that it was Clark's fault for not accepting his destiny sooner. It would have been a much lesser event had he found them when he was supposed to. Clark gave into Jor-El's demands this time because it was either do what he says, or allow Earth to be destroyed...hm...that's an easy one.

Jor-El has been portrayed fairly negatively from his introduction in the series. The Kryptonian heritage he wants Clark to embrace has always been a cold and emotionless one. Every time Jor-El has attempted to move Clark in that direction, it has resulted in tragedy. Often as a direct result of Jor-El attempting to coerce Clark. In fact, Jor-El is the least sympathetic recuring character in 'Smallville'. Even Lionel Luthor has had moments of caring. Unless Season 5 is going feature a major twist regarding Krypton, Clark rejecting his Kryptonian heritage and the destiny Jor-El is trying to push him toward is a good thing. Therefore, I took the whole 'beyond my control' speech as one more manipulation by Jor-El. Clark bears some responsibility for the disaster, but it seems like one more Jor-El temper tantrum to me.

The ship is supposed to hold some unspeakable evil, so it won't be Kara. Though her being easily corrupted isn't good, she still can't be considered evil. Zod and his henchman??? nope, not possible, because if they do that, then that would mean that they aren't in the phantom zone which they are supposed to be. As for Brainiac, that is a complete shot in the dark. It is plausible to think that it is a creature/being from Krypton because of the shape of the ship, but not Clark's family, because there wasn't a big '8' on the top. Also, it's black, and proves that whatever is inside is evil.

I am assuming it is someone from Krypton (or related to Krypton). I agree that General Zod would be a waste, but they have 're-cast' major characters before. This is a show where Lois has met Clark (sans glasses) in Smallville. Krypto is genetic mutant. Kara was a random pawn of Jor-El. Moving Zod to a space ship is not THAT big a stretch. Brainiac is too big for TV in my mind. However, he is a great antagonist. Supergirl would be the most fun. A teenager from Krypton adapting to life on Earth would add another dimension to the fifth season. I agree that this is not consistent with the build-up, but again the show is not exactly 100% consistent.

As for Clark not pursuing the flying more, he doesn't want to. He was freaked out in Season 1 when he thought he dreamt flying, and was freaked in this seasons opener when he remembered flying as Kal. If you remember, him and his father agreed to put all this stuff (stones, Jor-El, Kal, and the flying) behind him so that he could enjoy his last year of high school more fully. I do agree with you that the should have him exploring more of the FOS in season 5, and not have it only appear in the opener or something like that.

The flying is like the 'not myself' excuse to me. The writers go 90% in one direction for a single episode, then abruptly reverse course. I love the show, but I am getting frustrated with that practice. Why do Clark and Lana always have to be in the same gray area between being a couple and not? Why are the writers defending Clark and Lana's virginity so fiercely? Seriously, Lana lived with Jason for almost 6 months. She is a teenager in the 21st century. Yet, she defended her chastity? Clark just 'decides' that flying doesn't interest him after the season premier? Alicia Baker can drug Clark with Red K to marry her, but won't sex with him while he is under the influence?

There are too many abrupt reversals of character to keep inside the 'rules' of the show.

vyperman7

05-20-2005, 03:51 AM

V-Man's review of Commencement

Going into Commencement, I had mixed feelings on it. This was due to the fact that I am a spoiler junkie, and I could not help but read people's reviews and comments before I actually saw the episode. There were two things I wanted to see - Clark finding out about what Chloe knows, and the FOS. Unfortunately neither one happened, so I was already somewhat dissapointed going in. They spent the second half of the season having Chloe discover Clark's secret, and dropping one hint after the other. I still feel that Clark should have learned everything in Blank. I mean why else would they have Chloe be the one to help him, if not for the purpose of Clark finding out? They dropped the ball there. So the next best time, would be in the season finale, where everything is supposed to culminate, and at least bring some sense of closure. They decided to not touch on this at all. Now since so many other things happened inthe finale, it should not bug me that much right? Well, I find it hard to overlook the fact that they made Chloe's knowledge one of the season's central themes, and for it to just be overlooked and not even touched upon was dissapointing to me. It would be one thing if she had just learned a few episodes before. But, Chloe knew for 11 episodes. Speaking of Chloe, I wanted to feel bad and laugh at the same time, that the army guys showed up just as Chloe was about to get her diploma. She has been screwed over the whole show, why not add one more log to the fire? I mean, couldn't they at least let the poor girl get her damn diploma?

Now regarding the FOS, it was in poor form, in my opinion, not to let the fans of the show see it. Think back on the first season finale Tempest. Imagine, if the episode ended with Chloe being left alone in the gym, and all we got was the warning of the tornado. It would not have packed nearly the same amount of punch right? Sure we knew the tornado was coming, but the writers did not make us assume and wait. They gave us what we wanted and still managed to leave us hanging, by letting Clark run in, and then ending it there. Imagine, if they had let the FOS form, and then as Clark is entering, you drop the to be continued. Now that would have been an ending. I personally don't like it when writers go on the assumptions of the fans. Sure we all know the FOS is coming. Why else would Clark be in the arctic, and throw the crystal, exactly like what happened in the movie? It is coming. But they should have shown it, and ended the season just as Clark began to enter.

Also, how in the hell was Jason still alive? His death made sense in Forever(which I liked by the way). It served a purpose. That was to cast a shadow of doubt in Lex's mind about Clark. I loved how he was shot, just as he was about to tell Lex everything. But then having him show up out of nowhere, after getting shot and falling off a cliff, just seemed like a cheap device to build suspense. Now onto my last major complaint. The damn timer. Not because I felt it ripped off any other show. It ruined the suspense of when the meteors were coming. It let us know exactly when it was going to happen. They should have let us be in suspense, and then sprung it on us.

I was hoping to like Commencement a lot more than I actually did, considering it has gotten one of the highest positive ratings that I have ever seen an episode get. I mean, even over on tvtome, the episode is still in the top ten after almost 300 votes, which is something in its own right. It is sitting at number seven. What I found to be funny, was that everyone was on the edge of their seat for the whole finale. I did not feel the suspense kick in, until after the meteor hit the Kent farm, and by then, the finale was close to being over.

I would not call Commencement a bad episode. It was definately watchable. The effects were freaking outstanding, although they did re-use a scene from the Pilot during one sequence, I could feel Clark starting to become more like the man he will become down the road, I could see Lex starting to become more like the person he will become(the line about him being the son his dad always wanted gave me chills), the ship has me intrigued, and of course I am dying to know what will happen in the FOS. It also had some of the best interaction between Clark and Johnathan they have ever had, and suprisingly, one of my favorite parts was Lois's reference to a man in a red cape. Loved the Clois in this episode. But for a finale that had so many good elements in it, I don't feel like the finale really brought any sense of closure to the events of season four at all, with the acception of the death of Mrs Teague and the tatoo dissapearing, and that was the arc I cared the least about. The season finale almost felt like a seperate storyline in its own right. If it was the season opener, then great. But not in a season finale, that is supposed to bring it all together. I think that this speaks for season four as a whole. If you took each episode individually, and did not concentrate on the overall story, season four is awesome. Some great episodes. But the overall story and continuity of the season was bad.

The one thing that I really hope for in season five, is that they can show us the development of Clark and Lex into who they are supposed to become, and not just giving it to us in the last episode. As much as I liked Lex's personality change, they did nothing this season to show his growth towards that, and the events in Onyx, and a few random lines about having a darkness inside that he can't control don't count. The fans have to buy the character changes, and in order for that to happen, you show us through the next 22 episodes, why we should believe what they are showing us. My first reaction, was Lex is evil, when the hell did this happen? What happened to the mysterious level 33.1? That was the one constant that they could have used throughout the whole season, and it was never mentioned again. One can only hope that it is brought back in season five(but with Smallville's continuity history, it is doubtful). As viewers, we cannot witness what goes on behind the scenes in the lives of the characters, as it is a fictional show. We can only know, based on what we are allowed to see in the episodes they give us. So please, next season give us some continuity and solid character development. After all, it is most likely going to be the last season.

Before I watched Commencement, there was a thread based on someone really disliking the finale entitled "Am I the only one that thought the finale blew?" While I don't think the finale was horrible, I was not blown away either. I guess that puts me in the middle. It had great effects, really good interaction with Clark and his parents, a nice bit with Jor-El, and some new interesting developments for the future with the FOS, Lex's sudden personality change, the ship, and Lionel's strange connection to it all. But when a finale has all flash, and no sense of actual closure, can you consider it to be a satisfying one?

I give this one 3.5/5

How I would rank the finales

Covenant
Exodus
Commencement
Tempest

knb18

05-20-2005, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by Arista 07
:rotfl:

What are you implying? That Clark caused the air stone's reaction? Do I even have to debate that one? And just for the sake of fun, why was Isobel burned by the fire crystal? Do you see the correlation? Isobel's skin can obviously not be in direct contact with the stones. Ergo, obvious plothole.

I think either Lana/Isobel OR Clark could have touched the air crystal. The reason that reaction happened is because they touched it at the SAME time -and their combining powers caused the reaction. The fire crystal burned here because it is the "fire" crystal. Didn't bother me.

KentClark

05-20-2005, 09:46 AM

I think that the fire element burned her is because it was already placed in the chamber on that alter-thingy and had been collected by the "chosen one"....I have no clue why they were blown away in sacred when the air element was touched, but I like the idea that they both touched it at the same time and caused the reaction....

On to the point, the finale kicked butt, altough there were some holes. (I think that TPTB were just as anxious to get the witch storyline over as the rest of us and it concluded rather questionably.) Overall, the episode was amazing, I had a smile a mile wide, except at the end when I cursed the TV and all those who could hear.

I thought that Clark made some long strides to becoming Superman in this episode, and the fact that he couldn't save everyone, ie. Ma & Pa Kent, that will further push him toward his destiny. Like in Superman for all Seasons, after the tornado hit he says to Ma & Pa (and himself probably) "I could have done more."

Loved how Lex has finally turned completely, and I think that Clark lying to him about the chamber may have been the very last straw..

On to the ship...I don't really know but my gut feeling was eradicator...(even as I type it, it feels wrong)..that would be my best guess at it..I really hope that it's not Zod or Brainiac.

At the end, I got goosebumps with Clark in the arctic, throwing the crystal..I think the part that made me the maddest is that they could have just shown it forming and that would have been enough, but to leave it the way they did angered me big time, seriously I was calling any and all things in vicinity any curse word that you could imagine. (and probably made up a few)

All in all though...10 out of 10

I really loved the episode...I was amazed that it blew by so quickly.

Lana #1

05-20-2005, 10:51 AM

I thought this episode was AWESOME!! Everything about it was so good. I'm so anxious to see what's gonna happen between Chloe and Lex in the caves and who is in the spaceship and how the hell Clark is going to get home and if Jason is finally dead. Clark and Chloe deff. need to have a talk. I thought this episode was so good, altho I wish they would have shown 10 more minutes of Smallville instead of Batman Begins :( but you can't have everything you want now can you. :) Can't wait for season 5

Sydafex7

05-20-2005, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
psst thats all a review has to be ;)

what did you think was out of place? It was counting down to the impact of the meteors :confused:

It was out of place because we didnt NEED a count down to the impact of the meteors..

When the meteors hit, the meteors hit. I dont need a clock telling me that. I think it will be pertty obvious when it happens.
Besides, I want to be surprised when it happens also. I mean I knew it was coming so it didn't surprise me at all. It also just totally took me out of the show whenever that clock was on the screen

Originally posted by lexchloe
Heck if they can make Lana can survive a frelling helicopter crashing then they can certainly make Jason survive getting shot and falling into a river.

I agree..

WHAT!? And this episode didn't bug you.
What happened to Lex last year is what happened to Lana (which was the most improbable thing ever!!; I mean, she hits the ground, literally, and she didn't die; but the pilot who is farther from the hit (and has more probabilities of living) died. COME ON!!).

And we know that the Kents are going to survive (and I'm guessing that Jason won't), even though the meteor landed on them!

[I'm thinking that the writers think of us like idiots who fall for EVERY little trap they pull... I'm losing respect for them. :mad: ] [/B]

Yeah, But the cliff hanger with the kents isnt wether or not they survive(because like you said we know they do) But just what happens to the farm and their situation with JAson in general.

No, this episode didnt bug me. People nit pick so much these days. Just enjoy it for what it is. Okay so Lana survived when she shouldnt have. SO what? SO MANY others on this show surviv when they shouldnt. Its nothing knew.

And, What happened to lex in last years finalie ISNT what happened to Lana in this years. We were left last year with Lex poisoned but not knowing if he survived, which is dumb becausewe know he does, so that was the lamest cliff hanger ever. This year, We werent left with wondering if Lana survived because she DID survive. Lana HAS no cliff hanger this year.

Stop questioning the fact that she survived and just deal with the fact that SHE DID. Same with jason
This show is based on a comic book creation. Things like this happen in the comic book world ALL THE TIME.

Its outrageous on purpose. Take SIn City for an example. Those characters all shouldve died in the movie at one point but they dont. I mean a guy gets a pistol stuck in his head AND his head is ALMOST cut off but he is still able to talk?? come on. This show isnt meant to be highly realistic in any way. Its a comic book.

Somebody Stop Me

05-20-2005, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by vyperman7
How I would rank the finales

Covenant
Exodus
Commencement
Tempest

Wow Ryan you gave Commencement over Tempest?

Here's my order

Tempest
Covenant
Exodus
Commencement

vyperman7

05-20-2005, 01:02 PM

I loved the Tempest cliffhangers. I thought it offered the best cliffhangers out of any episode. But the rest of the episode was only so-so to me.

Summers

05-20-2005, 01:35 PM

Exodus
Tempest
Convenant tied with Commencement(both had equal pros and cons to me).

MBCorp

05-20-2005, 01:43 PM

Great review, Ryan. Even though I liked the episode I pretty much agree with almost everything in your review. As a stand alone episode it was great, but as part of a major storyarc and in the context of the entire season it was a bit of a disappointment. I especially agree with your comments on Lex's character development and how all of a sudden he's evil when we haven't been shown any growth for him all season.

Arista 07

05-20-2005, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by vyperman7
The season finale almost felt like a seperate storyline in its own right. If it was the season opener, then great. But not in a season finale, that is supposed to bring it all together. I think that this speaks for season four as a whole. If you took each episode individually, and did not concentrate on the overall story, season four is awesome. Some great episodes. But the overall story and continuity of the season was bad.
You captured the episode perfectly, Ryan! I totally agree with you. However, I don't necessarily believe the finale should bring everything together. The greater shows I've watched in my lifetime sometimes resolved whatever seasonal arcs were in process before the finale. Using the season finale, to set up the upcoming season, as a result. I suspect that is what the writers attempted to do in this episode; but they only succeeded in putting the cart before the horse. I don't appreciate the half-ass resolution surrounding Isobel and the stones. And I despite my prior knowledge of Clark obliviousness regarding Chloe knowing of his abilities, I think dragging it into season five is a horrible misstep.
The one thing that I really hope for in season five, is that they can show us the development of Clark and Lex into who they are supposed to become, and not just giving it to us in the last episode. As much as I liked Lex's personality change, they did nothing this season to show his growth towards that, and the events in Onyx, and a few random lines about having a darkness inside that he can't control don't count. The fans have to buy the character changes, and in order for that to happen, you show us through the next 22 episodes, why we should believe what they are showing us. My first reaction, was Lex is evil, when the hell did this happen? What happened to the mysterious level 33.1? That was the one constant that they could have used throughout the whole season, and it was never mentioned again. One can only hope that it is brought back in season five(but with Smallville's continuity history, it is doubtful). As viewers, we cannot witness what goes on behind the scenes in the lives of the characters, as it is a fictional show. We can only know, based on what we are allowed to see in the episodes they give us. So please, next season give us some continuity and solid character development. After all, it is most likely going to be the last season.
Darn you for being more articulate than I! That's precisely what I was attempting to say in my review. I felt like Lex was "lightswitched" in Commencement. You and I shared the same reaction upon viewing all the "Lex is evil" innuendo. I was left wondering what Lex's motivations were for saying that line to Lionel. What was Lex's turning point? It couldn't possibly be Onyx, if anything Lex seemed fearful of the side of him that was unleashed in that ep. Furthermore, if Onyx has anything to do with Lex becoming full-fledge "evil," he will become so off a technicality and not organic progression. I believe the word to describe such an occurrence is "cop out"? The thought is very disconcerting. Not to mention, after Onyx Lex returned to being the charitable, inviting, local billionaire who gets major bands to play at the high school Prom.

The issue I take with Clark's development is that he never acts, only reacts to situations. As Jor-El said, Clark denied his destiny. Granted, Clark was scared because what destiny lay before his was unknown. However, he never did any active research in trying to find out what that destiny entailed. Even after Sacred when Jor-El told him of the repricussions (famine, world destruction) he didn't actively pursue the stones. It took a meteor shower directed at his hometown in order for Clark to get off his ass and do SOMETHING. Again, that's reaction, not action.
Originally posted by knb18
I think either Lana/Isobel OR Clark could have touched the air crystal. The reason that reaction happened is because they touched it at the SAME time -and their combining powers caused the reaction. The fire crystal burned here because it is the "fire" crystal. Didn't bother me.
*sigh*

This was discussed after Sacred's airing. I don't know how you can deduce that Isobel was burned by the "fire" crystal, and not come to the same conclusion with the "air" crystal. Each crystal has a secondary mainfestation of their given elements. The water stone causes a transference to take place. The fire stone burns opposition (such as Isobel). The air stone blows said opposition out of range. I can't put it more plainly than that; It's logical progression.

knb18

05-20-2005, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Arista 07

This was discussed after Sacred's airing. I don't know how you can deduce that Isobel was burned by the "fire" crystal, and not come to the same conclusion with the "air" crystal. Each crystal has a secondary mainfestation of their given elements. The water stone causes a transference to take place. The fire stone burns opposition (such as Isobel). The air stone blows said opposition out of range. I can't put it more plainly than that; It's logical progression.

I never agreed with the conclusion that the fire stone necessarily burned opponents. If so, it should have burned Lex on the plane. Instead, I think that she was burned by the fire cystal because, in addition to it being fire, it was under further protection from the caves, having been placed there already by Clark. The air cystal was under no such protecton and I don't agree that it would blow opposition out of range. Sorry.

I'm not saying there were not plotholes - I just didn't find this to be one of them. I also agree with the many posters who really liked this episode but not necessarily as a finale.

As for Lex, I've long been in the camp that he's been evil for a very long time - so I don't see it as a lightswitch. And that has nothing to do with the emails, which I thought were rather dumb. I've been saying for a long time now that Lex is mostly evil - just good at hiding it. Onyx may have sped things along even more (didn't love that episode so I don't know what to think) but IMO it's been there all along.

ArwenEvenstarU

05-20-2005, 03:06 PM

EXCELLENT EPISODE!! So good, I'm glad I taped it so I can watch it again.

Summers

05-20-2005, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by knb18

As for Lex, I've long been in the camp that he's been evil for a very long time - so I don't see it as a lightswitch.

IMO That's a cop out. This show is suppose to show the journey of CK ascent to Superman, and Lex's decent into evil. How is it a journey when Lex is evil all this time. Then what were the past seasons for? Nothing, it would be a waste since he was already evil. He suppose to fighting his inner demons, and eventually give up in his journey. It shouldnt be a cop out because then there was no journey :(.

knb18

05-20-2005, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Summers
IMO That's a cop out. This show is suppose to show the journey of CK ascent to Superman, and Lex's decent into evil. How is it a journey when Lex is evil all this time. Then what were the past seasons for? Nothing, it would be a waste since he was already evil. He suppose to fighting his inner demons, and eventually give up in his journey. It shouldnt be a cop out because then there was no journey :(.

Not evil to the same degree - growing more evil. I've listed in other threads before all the things he's done since the beginning of the show. I'm just saying that I don't think he went from Lex Luthor: good guy to Lex Luthor: evil man overnight. That's all. Just like Clark is good and had heroic tendencies all along - they just have to be further developed and come out more. But they were there from the beginning.

Arista 07

05-20-2005, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by knb18
Not evil to the same degree - growing more evil. I've listed in other threads before all the things he's done since the beginning of the show. I'm just saying that I don't think he went from Lex Luthor: good guy to Lex Luthor: evil man overnight. That's all. Just like Clark is good and had heroic tendencies all along - they just have to be further developed and come out more. But they were there from the beginning.
In that case the writers did a horrible job at conveying that. There never was a clear, concise, defining moment, that made me think "OoOoOh. Lex is evil!" And if there was anything remotely close to that, it was followed by Lex doing something truly goodwilled and valiant.

Also, as Summers stated the show is supposed to be about Lex's descent into evil. If he was evil all along, regardless of extent, it doesn't coincide with the Lex we saw in the pilot or throughout the series, for that matter.

ETA: About Isobel, I think she was the the opposition. We all know the storyline involing the stones went through many rewriters. It was once thought that each crystal was meant for Clark, Lex and Lana. Which is why most deduced as the reason why Lex was not burned by the fire stone. Still, that's just a theory. Can't say for sure.

ImzadiJedi

05-20-2005, 05:16 PM

Until recently you always had a feeling of hope for Lex turning good. Yes, I know the mythos about him... But he 'seemed' to want to turn away from his dark side. With this episode it sounded like he is embracing his dark side and following it. I think in the future we are going to see a darker more evil Lex Luthor.

binkys711

05-20-2005, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by Chad Doody
It was Amazing. I Was on the edge of my seat the entire time.

September is so long away. :(

yep i am the same way1:D ;) first i was like YUPPPY BEST EPISODE EVER!!!!:eek: :D then i was like...NO WHAT?!DAM!!:confused: :( :mad: :mad:

LanaandPete

05-20-2005, 08:03 PM

1 possible reason for why they didnt show FOS, probably budget reasons? maybe, dunno.

cayayofm

05-20-2005, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Sydafex7
Yeah, But the cliff hanger with the kents isnt wether or not they survive(because like you said we know they do) But just what happens to the farm and their situation with JAson in general.

No, this episode didnt bug me. People nit pick so much these days. Just enjoy it for what it is. Okay so Lana survived when she shouldnt have. SO what? SO MANY others on this show surviv when they shouldnt. Its nothing knew.

And, What happened to lex in last years finalie ISNT what happened to Lana in this years. We were left last year with Lex poisoned but not knowing if he survived, which is dumb because we know he does, so that was the lamest cliff hanger ever. This year, We werent left with wondering if Lana survived because she DID survive. Lana HAS no cliff hanger this year.

That's my point. Stupid and unbelievable things are happening (I know this is Sci-Fi, but unbelievable with real things like that. You know what I mean.)
What I meant comparing Lex with Lana was not the cliffhanger thing; it was that they "tried" to scare us ('dramatic' effect) by "killing" characters that obviously should have died in the episode, but didn't. It's not even fun anymore. It's obvious that they need filler. It shouldn't be outrageous, it should be... believable.

Like another poster said, it's a cheap attemp to build suspense.

Originally posted by Sydafex7
Stop questioning the fact that she survived and just deal with the fact that SHE DID. Same with Jason
This show is based on a comic book creation. Things like this happen in the comic book world ALL THE TIME.

It’s outrageous on purpose. Take Sin City for an example. Those characters all should’ve died in the movie at one point but they don’t. I mean a guy gets a pistol stuck in his head AND his head is ALMOST cut off but he is still able to talk?? come on. This show isnt meant to be highly realistic in any way. Its a comic book.

That's the thing with some of the fans, they don't question anything, and that's why everything is "great" and "awesome". They see something pretty and forget about everything else.
(We know neither of the main characters will die ...the writers don't have the guts to pull something like that; it's too risky for them.)

My question is: Are they running out of (good) ideas, or are they just playing with us?

Don't get me wrong, It may seem that I hate the show (well, sometimes it gets like that), but it makes me mad that a show with SO MUCH potential is NOT been exploited to the maximum. This can be a GREAT show, but it falls short. A great season premiere and finale don't make up for the weakness of the season. :(

PD: I haven't seen Sin City.

(BTW, sorry if I have trouble getting my ideas through; English is my second language.)

ImzadiJedi

05-21-2005, 01:16 AM

I liked the episode.

We know that if a character is suspected to be dead from the finale that they probably aren't dead. I think it is usually creative how they show how the character didn't really die like we first thought from the cliffhanger.

Blazermaniac

05-21-2005, 02:54 AM

I missed the original airing as I was standing in line for Episode III and didn't have a chance to watch my tape till just now. Simply fantastic episode - loved everything except for the odd helicopter flight. Great stuff all in all.

derekmfc

05-21-2005, 06:01 AM

hi i forgot to watch smallville the other day as i was busy wth the girlfriend so i decided to download it but when clark is in the snow and throws the stone it comes up "to be continued" is that what came up on the television? please help me

cayayofm

05-21-2005, 08:55 AM

yes it was.

derekmfc

05-21-2005, 11:51 AM

so when will the contineued part of episode 22 be shown?

Sydafex7

05-21-2005, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by cayayofm
That's my point. Stupid and unbelievable things are happening (I know this is Sci-Fi, but unbelievable with real things like that. You know what I mean.)
What I meant comparing Lex with Lana was not the cliffhanger thing; it was that they "tried" to scare us ('dramatic' effect) by "killing" characters that obviously should have died in the episode, but didn't. It's not even fun anymore. It's obvious that they need filler. It shouldn't be outrageous, it should be... believable.

Like another poster said, it's a cheap attemp to build suspense.

That's the thing with some of the fans, they don't question anything, and that's why everything is "great" and "awesome". They see something pretty and forget about everything else.
(We know neither of the main characters will die ...the writers don't have the guts to pull something like that; it's too risky for them.)

My question is: Are they running out of (good) ideas, or are they just playing with us?

Don't get me wrong, It may seem that I hate the show (well, sometimes it gets like that), but it makes me mad that a show with SO MUCH potential is NOT been exploited to the maximum. This can be a GREAT show, but it falls short. A great season premiere and finale don't make up for the weakness of the season. :(

PD: I haven't seen Sin City.

(BTW, sorry if I have trouble getting my ideas through; English is my second language.)

No problem.. Your english is pretty good for it being your seconf Language.

I guess with me, I dont expect much from TV anymore. EVERY SINGLE SHOW on TV has plot holes. EVERYTHING. I was watching the season finalie of CSI on thursday which was directed by Quentin Tarantino and the writer of the basic story (who's movies have very little plot holes in them) and it had several things in it that made no sense. I didnt expect that from him, but even he has problems I guess.

I watch smallville and I try not to pick it apart left and right like others do because well, it just doesnt get us anywhere. We can sit here on these forums and just totally pick it apart, but at the end of the day it doesnt matter.
The whole helicopter thing. When we see it hit the ground and then cut to another scene, I do not think that was meant to make us think Lana was dead. I dont know about you guys, but I sure as hell knew she was still alive. Its lana. A main character of the show.

We arent supposed to think she is dead. That is just a shot that they use to let us know the helicopter crashed. Its atype of shot. They easily could have used the basic shot of us watching the helicopter crash from a distance, but instead they went with a first person perspective (through lana's eyes). Thats all. The cliff hanger isnt wether or not shed dead, but just her situation in general. This is why her seeing that huge ship was awesome for me. It was such a surprise. I wasnt expecting for them to cut back to her at all. I thought that was a cliff hanger and we needed to wait to see what was up with her situation. But no they cut back to her and she sees someon get out of a ship! That blew me away because that was something i was NOT expecting.

Now you ask if the writers are running out of ideas? OF COURSE. This is the 4 season going into the 5th! IF you read the intro in one of the Season DVD packs, I dont remember if it was the 3rd or the 2nd season, but they have a quote from Al and Miles that says "the one question we had was 'how the hell are we gonna come up with 22 more episodes?'" You guys need to understand that its HARD to write for a television series. Its not like a movie which is hard also, but you are telling miniature stories that span anywhere from 4-10 years. Look at Friends and Raymond. Those episodes are only 30 minutes long and they spanned 10 years!!! The last couple of seasons are never as good as the first 3 or 4. With a movie, you are writing for 2 hours sometimes less or more. With smallville, they are have writting 88 hours!!!! 88 take out commercials okay a little less. But do you get what Im saying? Its easy for us on these boards to come up with ideas. But those are OUR ideas. the writers have a vision for the show and I guarantee you they alerady know how it ends. Then, they just gotta get there within 5-6 seasons. Its like, theyve got a beginning and they got an end and now they gotta fill in the middle

Star Wars is a great example. We have the last 3 episodes already and now Lucas had to make it all into a circle. He ahd to finish the gap and trust me.. there are a TON of plot holes, but you just have to enjoy it for what it is.

I look at some of you who analyze the hell out of Smallville and I see that you guys dont seem to enjoy the show as much as me. I dont analyze the show. I watch it and look for the good and wipe out the bad for my mind. I find myself enjoying it sooo much more when I do that.

Thats all I gotta say. Good Luck to those who are mad about season 4. hopefully Smallville doesnt loose any fans but I guess theres nothing they can do.

TPTB cant please everyone..

Originally posted by derekmfc
so when will the contineued part of episode 22 be shown?

Sometime in September, October probably. Like it usally is.

Spiked

05-21-2005, 12:10 PM

The best season finale of Smallville!

cayayofm

05-21-2005, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Sydafex7
No problem.. Your english is pretty good for it being your seconf Language.

I guess with me, I dont expect much from TV anymore. EVERY SINGLE SHOW on TV has plot holes. EVERYTHING. I was watching the season finalie of CSI on thursday which was directed by Quentin Tarantino and the writer of the basic story (who's movies have very little plot holes in them) and it had several things in it that made no sense. I didnt expect that from him, but even he has problems I guess.

I watch smallville and I try not to pick it apart left and right like others do because well, it just doesnt get us anywhere. We can sit here on these forums and just totally pick it apart, but at the end of the day it doesnt matter.
The whole helicopter thing. When we see it hit the ground and then cut to another scene, I do not think that was meant to make us think Lana was dead. I dont know about you guys, but I sure as hell knew she was still alive. Its lana. A main character of the show.

We arent supposed to think she is dead. That is just a shot that they use to let us know the helicopter crashed. Its atype of shot. They easily could have used the basic shot of us watching the helicopter crash from a distance, but instead they went with a first person perspective (through lana's eyes). Thats all. The cliff hanger isnt wether or not shed dead, but just her situation in general. This is why her seeing that huge ship was awesome for me. It was such a surprise. I wasnt expecting for them to cut back to her at all. I thought that was a cliff hanger and we needed to wait to see what was up with her situation. But no they cut back to her and she sees someon get out of a ship! That blew me away because that was something i was NOT expecting.

Now you ask if the writers are running out of ideas? OF COURSE. This is the 4 season going into the 5th! IF you read the intro in one of the Season DVD packs, I dont remember if it was the 3rd or the 2nd season, but they have a quote from Al and Miles that says "the one question we had was 'how the hell are we gonna come up with 22 more episodes?'" You guys need to understand that its HARD to write for a television series. Its not like a movie which is hard also, but you are telling miniature stories that span anywhere from 4-10 years. Look at Friends and Raymond. Those episodes are only 30 minutes long and they spanned 10 years!!! The last couple of seasons are never as good as the first 3 or 4. With a movie, you are writing for 2 hours sometimes less or more. With smallville, they are have writting 88 hours!!!! 88 take out commercials okay a little less. But do you get what Im saying? Its easy for us on these boards to come up with ideas. But those are OUR ideas. the writers have a vision for the show and I guarantee you they alerady know how it ends. Then, they just gotta get there within 5-6 seasons. Its like, theyve got a beginning and they got an end and now they gotta fill in the middle

Star Wars is a great example. We have the last 3 episodes already and now Lucas had to make it all into a circle. He ahd to finish the gap and trust me.. there are a TON of plot holes, but you just have to enjoy it for what it is.

I look at some of you who analyze the hell out of Smallville and I see that you guys dont seem to enjoy the show as much as me. I dont analyze the show. I watch it and look for the good and wipe out the bad for my mind. I find myself enjoying it sooo much more when I do that.

Thats all I gotta say. Good Luck to those who are mad about season 4. hopefully Smallville doesnt loose any fans but I guess theres nothing they can do.

TPTB cant please everyone..

Sometime in September, October probably. Like it usally is.

I agree with you in everything you just said. Really every TV show no matter how good it is, is goint to have plot holes. I think that my problem in general is not with the episode is with the season. We has seen this show do better and that is what is frustraiting for me. Trust me I don't see plot holes very easy( I could easily be tricked), but this season had too many. I understand that some story lines could be more interesting than other, obviuosly some seasons are going to be better than others, but this season could had been so much better written. At first I thougth that the stones/witch/Isobel story arc had potential to be very interesting but was handled bad from the start. I thougth that we finally would see the breakup of the frienship of Clark and Lex and see Lex gone to the dark side. However at the end after all the thing is that I am dissapointed.

Im glad that we understood each other.
:)

Bobbythe2nd

05-21-2005, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Sydafex7

I look at some of you who analyze the hell out of Smallville and I see that you guys dont seem to enjoy the show as much as me. I dont analyze the show. I watch it and look for the good and wipe out the bad for my mind. I find myself enjoying it sooo much more when I do that.

Thats all I gotta say. Good Luck to those who are mad about season 4. hopefully Smallville doesnt loose any fans but I guess theres nothing they can do.

TPTB cant please everyone..

.

The sad part Sydafex7 is that most of the time the negative things are what people remember. I, like yourself appreciate smallville for what it is. And I think deep down inside the people who criticize smallville really enjoy the show, because if they didnt they wouldnt be talking about it and still watching it. People, just accept wat is given to us and enjoy it!

Originally posted by cayayofm
I agree with you in everything you just said. Really every TV show no matter how good it is, is goint to have plot holes. I think that my problem in general is not with the episode is with the season. We has seen this show do better and that is what is frustraiting for me. Trust me I don't see plot holes very easy( I could easily be tricked), but this season had too many. I understand that some story lines could be more interesting than other, obviuosly some seasons are going to be better than others, but this season could had been so much better written. At first I thougth that the stones/witch/Isobel story arc had potential to be very interesting but was handled bad from the start. I thougth that we finally would see the breakup of the frienship of Clark and Lex and see Lex gone to the dark side. However at the end after all the thing is that I am dissapointed.

Im glad that we understood each other.
:)

Well cayayofm, I agree that this season couldve been better than it was, but I like the ending that it had. It gives season 5 a much better chance to evolve. I really hope that TPTB focuses more on the archs and a little less on the FOTWs. I understand they are needed, and I don't mind them, but they don't always have to have one. I appreciate wat season four gave us because a lot of important things happened, but I do agree that it couldve been handled much better. Its ok tho, Smallville left season four on a very very good note! Two thumbs up for Commencement!

Sydafex7

05-21-2005, 12:44 PM

Yeah I mean I dont know. There were more filler episodes this season than the other seasons, and that bothers me because things like Level 33.1 could have been explored more and took out those filler episodes. but, I guess that doesnt bother me that much either because the filler episodes we got I actually enjoyed. The only ones I didnt really enjoy were Ageless and facade. I liked the others. Even Recruit and devoted. Oh well.. I guess Its just easier to keep me entertained... oh well!! thats good for me!!

Bobbythe2nd

05-21-2005, 12:59 PM

same here doode

Sydafex7

05-21-2005, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Bobbythe2nd
same here doode

All I know is that I will be a devoted viewer next year, even if season 5 is the worst one yet. Because either way that means it will be better than almost ANYTHING on tv right now (except family guy of course...:D

ImzadiJedi

05-21-2005, 02:07 PM

This episode gave me some hope for season 5 of Smallville.

Bobbythe2nd

05-21-2005, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Sydafex7
All I know is that I will be a devoted viewer next year, even if season 5 is the worst one yet. Because either way that means it will be better than almost ANYTHING on tv right now (except family guy of course...:D

Silence you contemptible shrew!

:D

Go Stewie!

Sydafex7

05-21-2005, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by LanaandPete
1 possible reason for why they didnt show FOS, probably budget reasons? maybe, dunno.

Yeah Maybe, with all of the special effects and stuff they may need to wait until next season's budget is set and show it during the season 5 premier

tanuj_87

05-21-2005, 02:46 PM

have to be the episode with the most suspense throughout the full smallville history. it was simply great. I found that it was longer but still felt so short. i didnt want it to end. i loved the cliffhanger with the spaceship lana sees and clark throwing the crystals. i just cant stand the fact that i have to wait till fall to see the next. PS - im from the UK and like one of the few that have actually seen every Seas 4 episodes. I feel completely priveledged.

Sydafex7

05-21-2005, 02:52 PM

derekmfc

05-21-2005, 04:03 PM

when i watched smallville it came up to be continued.
when will the continued part or the season finale be shown?

05-21-2005, 04:58 PM

this episode was so good....september is a long way lol...i dont think i can wait to see what happens! :(

Kryptomaniac

05-21-2005, 05:01 PM

I am one HAPPY fan. SMALLVILLE winning episode and STAR WARS movie in the same day.

BOTH had special effects that were flawless. SMALLVILLE had BETTER acting. Ha!

Greg Beeman as director nevers disappoints. And, everybody LOOKED GOOD (makeup, clothes, etc. I don't miss that Kara-like mole.zit whatever between Clark's eyes, that's for sure).

The clock countdown ("24" ripoff) was really cool, as was the music.

Did anybody else sing "Ding-dong, the witch is dead" when the helicopter crashed? Come on! Admit it!

The black ship was a total surprise.

Absolutely LOVED this episode. WELL DONE EVERYBODY! A 5 out of 5 rating, of course!

Cal_el_AL

05-21-2005, 05:39 PM

I was just puzzled @ how Clark just WALKED into the cave and put the last key/element in . It was like he wasn't in a big hurry to save anything....lol

Chloe and Clark HAVE to talk about this whole super powers thing.... lol

Overall i LOVED the episode. Finally Lex's dark side was shown. And i am so glad that Lana found whatever that thing was...

i loved it!

Donutte

05-21-2005, 06:21 PM

I just have to say that I totally LOVED this epi!!! Can't wait for the new season to begin (although, curious how they will write their way out of this hole; no pun intended)... I think the DVDs come out on 9/13... But not sure about the new season... But the finale was so good... Loved the countdown timer, although I thought it was out of place at times... Loved the baaaaad Lex! Thought I would be sad when he officially became bad, but he was totally hot!!! *fanning self*

'Nutte

Chesay

05-21-2005, 06:38 PM

Enjoyed Commencement very much and was pleased it ended 'to be continued' because hopefully, it will continue and finish out what was started instead of doing a 'three months later' which always irritates me.

Loved the catfight between Lana and Genevieve. Thought both did a great job with it. It felt real and Lana seemed truly in danger. I was confused that Genevieve looked surprised when Isobel showed up. Did she not intend for Lana to make contact with Isobel and confirm she was indeed a descendant of hers? The blood on Lana's hands scene was very powerful and did not need the laughable bowl in the mansion scene with Lex pouring the water for her. I wasn't exactly sure what the point was unless they were trying to recreate the Pontius Pilate scene where he calls for water to wash his hands and they bring a bowl of water and a towel. It would have been more effective and maintained the tenseness of the scene if she had come out of the bathroom where she had washed her hands, perhaps numerous times, and said to Lex something like "no matter what I do I still feel her blood on my hands".

Loved the family moments with the Kents and Lois' banter with Clark. The show seems to be more balanced when there are family moments where the Kents talk with Clark about his problems.

Thought Jensen did a good job with Jason.
Shelby is a wimp when it comes to actual defense. He growls and then fades when the tension mounts. Poor dog. The fight scene with Jason and Jonathan was very good. I think Jason as a regular could have worked if managed differently and I wish Jensen well with his new series.

Felt TPTB must have read on the boards where a fan said they wanted Lex to tell Lionel before he killed him that he had finally gotten the son he had always wanted. It was beautifully delivered, but other than losing his cool over not being able to get his hands on the stone Lana had had, I didn't see any particular evil to Lex to prompt the statement. Was it because he was leaving Lionel behind in the mansion instead of evacuating him to safety? Did it mean Lex was leaving him behind hoping the meteors would end his life so he wouldn't have to do so? It wasn't very clear to me although I enjoyed the scene very much. The Kryptonian download gave me hope that Lionel will figure very strongly in next season's arcs. I didn't, however, get the impression that Lionel is working in Clark's best interest, but for his own selfish reasons. If he was positively influenced by Clark as evidenced from the healing that occurred and the Kryptonian influence deposited there still exists, wouldn't it be good rather than evil? Why didn't the Transference stone switch Lionel's essence with Lex when Lex touched it instead of throwing Lex across the room? Wasn't that the original plan when Lionel arranged to get that stone? Did it only work once? Nevertheless Lionel was the MB at his best. I loved his lines about cleaning up, especially his line about 'for a woman without a heart, Genevieve Teagues had a lot of blood' and the one about 'Lana's DNA as postage on Genevieve's corpse'. Go writers go!

I, too, noticed that Clark circled the table twice instead of hurrying to insert the stone in the slot. Was there a reason for that? The effects with the stones merging to make a new crystal were wonderful. The arctic scene was breathtaking and a memorable recall of the Superman movie. I share Tom Welling's excitement about the filming of that scene.

The helicopter sequence was the weakest but I think they put a lot of effort into it. The black ship shaped like a crystal is fascinating and provided the best cliffhanger for me. I assume it was opening because of the light on Lana's face. If it is the unleashed evil released because of the blood on the stone then Lana may be in serious danger from it. She certainly has strong legs to bear up under all the assaults she has suffered. I couldn't figure out why she would strain herself to go up that steep slope when feeling such pain and then I saw it was a crater created by the ship or black crystal. Great design and ominous looking.

Chloe and Lois are always a great pair. I love the dynamic between them. Lois and Clark are always fun to watch too. I love the love/hate relationship they have together. So playful and devoid of angst.

Thought it ended the season on a positive note and I hope the next season will continue in this way. Lex, Lionel, and Chloe need more screen time than they have had this past season and I hope they will keep the regulars and not break in any new people. If they need additional cast, bring back Pete so there is no need to tell a back story on him and we can move forward with the original focus of the show-Clark and Lex development. Kudos to the cast, crew and writers for this one!

watcher4

05-21-2005, 08:07 PM

It was a good episode-although ever so slightly predictable. I loved that Jonathan and Martha were featured more prominently. The scene between Clark and Lana got a little heavy to me, but it proved to be a good springboard for the rest of the storyline.

The most memorable scene for me was when Lex told an unconscious Lionel that Lionel had raised the son that Lionel had always wanted. To me, that spoke VOLUMES!!

Somebody Stop Me

05-21-2005, 08:42 PM

I went and watched from Spell to Scared and they blew the witch arc bad. 1st off to have Isobel's tatoo just disappear was a terrrble mistake on the writers part. She said in Spell and Scared that her mission was to find the "stones of power". If that's the case why did the tattoo just disappear after killing Genevieve? Cause the writing was really bad in that part. They could at least had a better closure than killing Genevieve and the tatoo just disappear.

And If she was trying to kill all the ancestors of Gertrude, why didn't she just kill Jason in China while he was chained up?

smallfem76

05-22-2005, 01:08 AM

Good Points About the Season Finale

-the special effects
-the interaction between Clark and his parents
-the interaction between Clark and Lois except the part about the future Clark. In the Smallville universe how could Clark go from the way he is now to the way he was in the Superman movies?
-the witches subplot is over

-the end of the season finale opened up a great deal of possibilities for the fifth season

Bad Points About the Season Finale

-Lex went from showing hints of evil to just completely going over to the dark side. The whole season did not really lead up to this drastic change. This also made we wonder whether Alexander was the one in charge now.

-the fight between Mrs Teague and Lana

The physical part was great but it just did not make any sense why Mrs Teague would go over to Lana's without some henchmen.

-Clark still does not know that Chloe knows his secret

Smallville sometimes has Clark being so stupid. Chloe has dropped so many hints about this. I just wish they would have him get a clue and figure it already.

-Clark leaves Chloe at the Luthor mansion despite knowing that the meteor shower is about to happen

-Lois distracting the soldier at the barricades

It was unbelievable .Why would a soldier listen to a civilian? Who cares that her father is the general and what is the chance that this soldier had even met the general?

-Jason jumping to the conclusion that Clark had the stones
How did he come to that notion?

Iluvsmallville08

05-22-2005, 07:12 AM

Best episode Ever period

Donutte

05-22-2005, 12:27 PM

I thought they had been leading up to Lex's becoming evil for quite some time now, personally... He just broke in this last episode; the quest for power and knowledge overtook his common sense...

triplet

05-22-2005, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Summers
-I was a bit irked that Clark didnt embrace his destiny, but was basically thrown into yet again. Oh, well.

But he did... at the end, he most definitely did.

He grabbed that stone when it was floating up away from him.

When he took hold of that, he took hold of his destiny.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-22-2005, 06:32 PM

Yes he embraced it. The problem was that he has been running from it for so long that the consequences of that have finally caught up to him. He never fully understood his destiny, and it is going to take this meteor shower and whatever is in that ship for him to realize his true destiny and it's not what he keeps believing it to be. Even at the end, Jor-El, who has been testing him and basically ordering him to fullfill his destiny, let's him know that because he didn't do that Smallville will suffer, and if he doesn't do something now Earth will suffer the same fate as Krypton. Right there Clark should have been like, hey, maybe i was sent here to save the place.

Caligo

05-23-2005, 09:51 AM

I haven't posted for almost a year but I just thought I'd give my two cents on the finale.

Just looking at the episode by itself, I thought it was excellent. Needless to say, the special effects were fantastic as always. And I surprisingly really liked how they introduced a second meteor shower. Although I have to agree with a lot of posters that the timer was pointless and confused me the first time I saw it. However, I don't think it being there was a big deal and didn't ruin the the show for me.

The acting was top notch, as usual. Kristin Kreuk was great with her trembling after killing GT. It's nice to see people having consequences for their actions in this show.

I am one of the people who did not think Lex was OOC in this episode. Over the seasons, we have seen him expressing frustration at being lied to by Clark and Lionel. And his desire for the stones was not out of place. He seemed pretty desperate for them in Crusade and Sacred as well. However, what really sold me is that my impression, and the impression of my friends who watched it with me, was that Lex's frustration was a combination of losing the stones and being lied to by everyone. He caught Clark in a lie at the beginning of the ep . Lana refused to trust him with the stone even when he was helping her. I think that Lex genuinely cares about her and that while he wants the stones, my impression was that he was equally upset by her not trusting him. The scene at the helicopter showed his conflicting affection and anger. And then he finds the other stone stolen, his safe torn open, and is lied to by Chloe. I personally thought the build up of his frustration and anger was beautifully written and acted.

I also think the comment to Lionel about being the son he always wanted was not out of place. While Lex had saved Lionel from Jason in Forever, Lionel had then shot Jason to keep Lex from learning about Clark, had allowed Lex to be tortured, and threatened Lana in this episode. I think this is just another example of Lex being fed up and not him telling the audience that he is evil now.

I don't think Lex is evil at this point, and I have not seen him as having always been evil. He is angry and frustrated and lashing out. This anger will be a perfect catalyst for him to fully make the turn to a villain in later season(s). I have to say that Lex is one of the few characters that has been for the most part developed well and I was able to sympathize with him to a certain degree throughout the episode.

Another highlight was Chloe. While it irked me that she did not tell Clark that she knows his secret, her loyalty and strength shone in this episode. And at least she might have learned that Clark is more than a meteor mutant, which should allow the story to move forward.

While I loved the episode, there were some problems when examined in context of the season. For example, Lana trusting Clark over Lex with the stone doesn't make sense. Lex has proven to be more honest with Lana than Clark has and Lana has repeatedly mentioned that she doesn't trust Clark. To me, it seemed like an easy way to get Clark the stone. A case of lazy writing.

The biggest flaw was the fact that the Isobel/Teague storly arc was not concluded well. While I was grateful to see the tattoo gone, I was upset that the arc's conclusion just shows how pointless the arc was. As was mentioned in other posts, Isobel's quest was not only revenge but also to get the stones. I think the writers just wanted to end the arc. It would have been better if they had found an interesting conclusion to the story to justify its constant presence throughout the season.

While I liked the fight scene with the Kents and Jason, and was impressed with JA's acting, I think it would have been better to explain his confusing stroy arc if they were to bring him back from the dead. The character of Jason was completely destroyed by the end of the season. While they did hint at some darkness and his being a danger to Lana in such episodes as Scare (and his following Lana to Smallville was just creepy) we never learned how long he was working with his mother. In Bound, they clearly showed that he was not working with his mother and that he did not know that his meeting Lana was a setup. They showed this in a private conversation between Jason and his mother. They can't make us believe that he was in cahoots from the beginning.

I had been holding out judgment on the Teagues until the finale, hoping that the inconsistencies were part of a plan and would make sense. Sadly, this didn't happen. I would have liked Lana to confront Jason and for his exact relationship with his mother to have been explained and GT's relationship with Lionel explained. Otherwise, tptb should have let Jason die in Forever and have his mother explain before Lana killed her. It was a good death scene and bringing Jason back to cause trouble with the Kents was pointeless. The writers left us confused and unsatisfied. While I would like to think that Jason will be explained more in the beginning of season 5, the chances are the matter will be dropped and Lana probably won't even mention Jason or Isobel. Such a waste of talented actors like Jane Seymour and Jensen Ackles. Hopefully, Supernatural will give him more to do.

Therefore, I think this episode was mixed. On it's own, fantastic. Great acting, good pace, great effects. The cliffhangers were great too. I know I'm dying to see the FoS and find out what's in the ship. However, it was still partially disappointing in that the season ended with so much unresolved mainly due to the pointless story arcs, and lack of continuity, and the lack of direction that plagued this season. I give it a 4 out of 5 just for this reason. Still, a great episode on its own and I will definitely be watching next season to see what happens.

Sorry for the long post. Relurking now.

Darren5000

05-23-2005, 11:55 AM

It was great, but disappointing by the end:

Clark tosses his rock, where does it go? What does it do? Do we see Fortress of Solitude? Do we see birth of Superflight?

Lana comes out of helicopter bloodied, broken leg (remember which leg it is now for next season for I've seen shows where the character breaks the bone in one part of the body, and ends up being broken on the opposite side) and sees the ship! Has it come for her? I can just imagine that Lana's Isobel is a wanted Kryptonian criminal and Lana is imprisoned.

What the heck happened to Jason? He holds gun to Jonathan and Martha, meteor rock crashes...who dies?!

Did Luthor catch Clark vanishing, or did the light blind him enough?

Has Lionel Luthor gone 'mad' with all the symbols? COuld this be what Dr. Walden referred to as 'the day is coming', though it came 2 years later?

I sure won't miss the premiere like I did last year!;)

I hope Kara returns, I miss her.;)

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-23-2005, 01:03 PM

Lex never saw Clark, Chloe saw Clark, but Lex was too far around the corner to see anything but a light. The meteor went through the roof of the Kent home, but there is no way it could have landed inside the house, if it does at the premiere it will be like Chloe in the house when it exploded, clearly not what really happened. Lana's leg was the right leg, it was the left leg in Season 3, so I wonder if they will get it right. But you know how it is, it will be three months later or something like that and she will be healed..lol. I thought of Walden as well, especially when Clark was saying in his sleep "the day is coming." I loved that part, it managed to tie up a loose end from Season 2.

Summers

05-23-2005, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by triplet
But he did... at the end, he most definitely did.

He grabbed that stone when it was floating up away from him.

When he took hold of that, he took hold of his destiny.

That's not embrace. He's been forced to do it because of the shower. It would be embrace if he actually got off his bottom before the nightmare, and was proactive than reactionary. Clark did not embrace his destiny willing hence "he did not" embrace his destiny.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-23-2005, 08:30 PM

Well, when he grabbed the stone when it was floating I think by then he was facing the facts and embracing his destiny. He wasn't really thrown into it, the shower didn't force him into his destiny, the shower just forced him to realize that he might have been wrong all along and he needs to fulfill his destiny. It was "proactive" when he went looking for the stones finally, but it was reactionary when he grabbed the completed stone, and reactionary when he threw it into the air while in the arctic. Why was that reactionary, because no one, not even Jor-El told him what to do, his reaction when it was completed and when he was transported into the arctic was completely on his own, without outside interference.

Lana_Lang #1

05-24-2005, 10:48 AM

As soon as Lionel said he "took care of" Genevieve's body, I thought that was so funny I started imagining that if this was a musical Lionel would be dancing around singing "Taking care of businesss, eveyday. Taking care of business, in every way. Taking..."

Also I thought it was very creepy and it gave me goosebumps when Clark woke up and his parents said he was screaming and yelling over and over "IT'S COMING! IT'S COMING!"

I definitely think that this is what Dr.Walden was taking about!!! Perhaps an early warning for Clark from the caves, spoken through Dr.Walden? Perhaps Dr.Walden briefly got the power of premonition?

Also you gotta wonder if those two stars colliding was a warning too, or if after they crashed that the reason the star was knocked off course and headed to earth!

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-24-2005, 01:08 PM

I know what you mean about Dr. Walden. I think his human brain just couldn't comprehend what was coming, and he thought that Clark was coming to take over the world, when it was really a meteor shower that was coming that Clark needed to prevent.

What two stars? I don't remember that. I remember the meteor breaking apart, but I don't remember two stars. Did I just forget.

Summers

05-24-2005, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
He wasn't really thrown into it, the shower didn't force him into his destiny, the shower just forced him to realize that he might have been wrong all along and he needs to fulfill his destiny. It was "proactive" when he went looking for the stones finally, but it was reactionary when he grabbed the completed stone, and reactionary when he threw it into the air while in the arctic. Why was that reactionary, because no one, not even Jor-El told him what to do, his reaction when it was completed and when he was transported into the arctic was completely on his own, without outside interference.

Sorry, I dont agree. In Sacred Jor-El basically gave Clark essentially a parental guilt trip of "If you reterive these stones the world will be in utter destruction". That's a guilt trip, ironically enough Clark didnt search for the crystals. He was in such pain from the brainwaves he had to retreive it to stop it from hurting.

I was kinda hoping they wouldnt do the ringing even though I know they would to make things easier for wrap up. I mean the stones rang...he went, and go due to the pain and guilt trip. Than the large crystal even pointed to where to throw. It wasnt even challenging :rolleyes: . It wasnt a struggle to get to them. It couldve handle better, and IMO I still dont believe he fully embraced his destiny willing.

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

What two stars? I don't remember that. I remember the meteor breaking apart, but I don't remember two stars. Did I just forget.

She means in the end of "Lucy". Many of us believe it was forshadowing the meteor shower in Commencement.

Hyde

05-24-2005, 03:22 PM

Why exactly?

The meteors came out of nowhere (another dimension, possibly the phantom zone) ... they were not there at this time.

What Clark saw had something to do with him and Lois, not with the events of Commencement.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-24-2005, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Summers
Sorry, I dont agree. In Sacred Jor-El basically gave Clark essentially a parental guilt trip of "If you reterive these stones the world will be in utter destruction". That's a guilt trip, ironically enough Clark didnt search for the crystals. He was in such pain from the brainwaves he had to retreive it to stop it from hurting.

I was kinda hoping they wouldnt do the ringing even though I know they would to make things easier for wrap up. I mean the stones rang...he went, and go due to the pain and guilt trip. Than the large crystal even pointed to where to throw. It wasnt even challenging :rolleyes: . It wasnt a struggle to get to them. It couldve handle better, and IMO I still dont believe he fully embraced his destiny willing.

She means in the end of "Lucy". Many of us believe it was forshadowing the meteor shower in Commencement.

The ringing isn't a guilty trip, they aren't ringing because he needs to get off his a**, they are ringing because they are about to fall into the wrong hands. The whole point of this season, and just about every season since he found out where he really comes from is to point out that fact that Clark is just like every other teenager. He thinks he knows everything and he knows best and no one can tell him otherwise. It may seem harsh the way Jor-El has tested him, and basically lashed him for not getting the stones on time, but, if you look at it from the view point of an adult, a parent not less, you will see that Jor-El is really just fed up with his rebelousness. Yes, Clark Kent, future Superman, is just like every other teenager when it comes to obeying his parents. All the trials he has gone through, from sacraficing his ship, to sacraficing himself for his father are all tests to see if he has actually grown to care for humans enough to protect them. This was his final test, he has already proven he would give up everything to save the people he loves, the meteor shower and this unspeakable evil was the test to see if he would do it for not just all of Smallville but for the fate of the entire world. If it's one thing that I have learned in life, is that parents test you 24/7, and most of the time you don't realize that it's for your own good, to help you grow. As for the stone pointing the way for him to throw it, well, it didn't speak up and say "throw me" did it?? No, he threw it out of instinct, out of finally realizing that maybe he was wrong and he should listen to Jor-El. Either way, this is really where you and I are comparing two different view points on whether or not he has really accepted his destiny on his own accord. I guess we will find out what's what when Season 5 comes along.

Summers

05-24-2005, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
The ringing isn't a guilty trip, they aren't ringing because he needs to get off his a**, they are ringing because they are about to fall into the wrong hands. The whole point of this season, and just about every season since he found out where he really comes from is to point out that fact that Clark is just like every other teenager. He thinks he knows everything and he knows best and no one can tell him otherwise. It may seem harsh the way Jor-El has tested him, and basically lashed him for not getting the stones on time, but, if you look at it from the view point of an adult, a parent not less, you will see that Jor-El is really just fed up with his rebelousness. Yes, Clark Kent, future Superman, is just like every other teenager when it comes to obeying his parents. All the trials he has gone through, from sacraficing his ship, to sacraficing himself for his father are all tests to see if he has actually grown to care for humans enough to protect them. This was his final test, he has already proven he would give up everything to save the people he loves, the meteor shower and this unspeakable evil was the test to see if he would do it for not just all of Smallville but for the fate of the entire world. If it's one thing that I have learned in life, is that parents test you 24/7, and most of the time you don't realize that it's for your own good, to help you grow. As for the stone pointing the way for him to throw it, well, it didn't speak up and say "throw me" did it?? No, he threw it out of instinct, out of finally realizing that maybe he was wrong and he should listen to Jor-El. Either way, this is really where you and I are comparing two different view points on whether or not he has really accepted his destiny on his own accord. I guess we will find out what's what when Season 5 comes along.

uh, your going to have to put this post in paragraph form. Its hard to read. Because your saying things I never even talked about, and it makes little sense on what you are trying to say ;).

And I didnt say it was the ringing was the guilt trip. I said the ringing made it too easy for Clark to get the crystal. There was no will or determination. Plus the ringing all season hasnt been consisent whatsoever. Many of us said it lame how Clark acted in Commencement. Either way you looked at it the throwing wasnt like in the movie. The crystal pointed where to throw it. If it was instinct he wouldnt need a pointer to do it :rolleyes: . Jor-El did the parental guilt trip....again. I know exactly why they are portraying Jor-El, and I know exactly why Clark is portrayed. But he is 18 and was a senior high school, and IMO he isnt really maturing a lot as he should for hero with superhero powers. There many heroes the same age as him that are far more mature. Its kinda makes him look pathetic.

TPTB writing staff hasnt fully understood natural character development. Sadly, they just finished their fourth year which they should have gotten on top of this year.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-24-2005, 05:48 PM

What other heroes are his age? My mistake about misreading what you had written. The paragraph form, well you don't either, that would involve indentation. It doesn't make him look pathetic that he hasn't matured, Superman was far from being perfect, he has flaw just like everyone else. If Clark Kent, the teenager, was a little immature, or just not quite as mature as what people expect him to be when he becomes the Man of Steel, doesn't necessarily mean that the writing staff hasn't allowed for natural character development.

He just doesn't become Superman over night, and any level a maturity that one achieves comes from when they leave home. I would know, I haven't lived with my parents for almost 2 years, and you can change an awful lot mentally when you step away from your childhood home.

Now, i may have misread you, but you did the same thing. I said that the instinct was in him throwing the stone, not in him determining which way to throw the stone. The stone may have pointed in a direction, but, he could have easily walked that way and just found a spot and buried it like a dog.

It isn't a parental guilt trip, it is a parent saying "hey, if you don't wise up and accept who you are, everyone is going to die." That wasn't a guilt trip that was reality. A guilt trip would be more have to have Jor-El begging Clark to accept his destiny and Clark would have to feel guilty for not doing what his father had BEGGED him to do. You saying that Clark feeling guilty because he has to finally take hold of his destiny because there is a meteor shower is bogus. That is basically saying that Superman only helps the innocent because he feels guilty because they can't do it themselves.

Was this better for your reading pleasure??

Summers

05-24-2005, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
What other heroes are his age? My mistake about misreading what you had written. The paragraph form, well you don't either, that would involve indentation. It doesn't make him look pathetic that he hasn't matured, Superman was far from being perfect, he has flaw just like everyone else. If Clark Kent, the teenager, was a little immature, or just not quite as mature as what people expect him to be when he becomes the Man of Steel, doesn't necessarily mean that the writing staff hasn't allowed for natural character development.

He just doesn't become Superman over night, and any level a maturity that one achieves comes from when they leave home. I would know, I haven't lived with my parents for almost 2 years, and you can change an awful lot mentally when you step away from your childhood home.

Now, i may have misread you, but you did the same thing. I said that the instinct was in him throwing the stone, not in him determining which way to throw the stone. The stone may have pointed in a direction, but, he could have easily walked that way and just found a spot and buried it like a dog.

It isn't a parental guilt trip, it is a parent saying "hey, if you don't wise up and accept who you are, everyone is going to die." That wasn't a guilt trip that was reality. A guilt trip would be more have to have Jor-El begging Clark to accept his destiny and Clark would have to feel guilty for not doing what his father had BEGGED him to do. You saying that Clark feeling guilty because he has to finally take hold of his destiny because there is a meteor shower is bogus. That is basically saying that Superman only helps the innocent because he feels guilty because they can't do it themselves.

Was this better for your reading pleasure??

Oh, yes much better. Thank you :D.

Teenagers that matured more than him at his age? Peter Parker, Buffy and her friends, X-Men members, and I could go on. They all have flaws but by this time their teenage tendency have been matured, and wised up. They didnt need guilt trips by their guardians any longer to do the right thing. They do the right thing because they want to, and they know it is. Flaws have nothing to do with it. Everyone has them. Its the decisions they make, and over this year Clark has made selfish ones that couldve been handle eariler in the series which would help him in maturing in this past year. They regressed his character when they shouldnt have, and it turned out poorly.

This is Smallville not Superman. He's Clark Kent who will one day become Superman. I come across people all the time who cannot picture this Clark Kent as Superman. Jor-El did do a guilt trip, and didnt beg. He said "son, you have this such time do this or world will be utter destruction. Jor-El doesnt beg, but gives guilt trip. That's why Clark went to China, and that's why he didnt really try to get the stones. Its not bogus. When it aired many of us were appaulled by Clark's actions in Commencement. He really looked like a BDA. He shouldnt be told what to do, or have guilt trip. He's old enough to realize what's right and wrong, but they write as if he really is a BDA.

He didnt embrace his destiny. He was guilt tripped by it. They had an opportunity after Sacred to show it, and they messed up yet again.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-24-2005, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Summers
Oh, yes much better. Thank you :D.

Teenagers that matured more than him at his age? Peter Parker, Buffy and her friends, X-Men members, and I could go on. They all have flaws but by this time their teenage tendency have been matured, and wised up. They didnt need guilt trips by their guardians any longer to do the right thing. They do the right thing because they want to, and they know it is. Flaws have nothing to do with it. Everyone has them. Its the decisions they make, and over this year Clark has made selfish ones that couldve been handle eariler in the series which would help him in maturing in this past year. They regressed his character when they shouldnt have, and it turned out poorly.

This is Smallville not Superman. He's Clark Kent who will one day become Superman. I come across people all the time who cannot picture this Clark Kent as Superman. Jor-El did do a guilt trip, and didnt beg. He said "son, you have this such time do this or world will be utter destruction. Jor-El doesnt beg, but gives guilt trip. That's why Clark went to China, and that's why he didnt really try to get the stones. Its not bogus. When it aired many of us were appaulled by Clark's actions in Commencement. He really looked like a BDA. He shouldnt be told what to do, or have guilt trip. He's old enough to realize what's right and wrong, but they write as if he really is a BDA.

He didnt embrace his destiny. He was guilt tripped by it. They had an opportunity after Sacred to show it, and they messed up yet again.

Let's start, Peter Parker. Yes, Clark's age, doesn't have near Clark's powers, or Clark's situation. Peter Parker was thrown into this hero gig by shear chance, secondly, Park was more of a nerd than Clark could ever pretend to be as a grown up, and thus natural nerdish maturity will always outweigh even Superman. Clark was born with his powers and has had the chance to abuse them at times, and you know he has (i.e. 'Truth' Pete- when Clark goes supersonic he can get there and back in 7 minutes). X-Men, better, tthey were born with their gifts, but, they were raised under the leadership of someone of a similar problem and he taught them the value of harnessing their gifts and not acting like a foolish child. They were in a private school for people like them, they didn't go to a public school and have to deal with the things Clark did. Buffy???...lol..I know you are a fan of the show, but, could you stick to actual superheroes, you know, ones that were created like 70 years ago, and had running comics. But, hey, that's fine we can go with Buffy. You cannot tell me that she hasn't acted rather immature throughout that series, even in college. YOu know darn well that wasn't a good choice. lol.

Clark made poor decision because he was finally making them himself. Think about when you were a kid (I am assuming that you are above the teenage level), you couldn't make bad choices cause everything you decided was something your parents had to overlook first. When you get to 17 or 18 years of age, you are making more choices on your own, and making way more bad choices on your own. You can only learn and grow from bad choices, not from good ones. If Clark only made the right choice and never a bad one, then how could be believe that he was even a real person. It hasn't been a year, it's been what 6 to 8 months depending on when they get out of school.

I don't see how you think this is a guilt trip. Even that quote doesn't sound like a guilt trip. Are you aware of what a guilt trip really is? I am sure you have used it on people before, and warning them about forth coming events that will happen if they don't listen is not a guilt trip, that is a warning, at best it's a threat. You can't guilt trip someone if you are telling them that something bad will happen if they don't listen, that isn't a guilt trip. A guilt trip is making someone feel bad for not doing something you asked. If you are saying that Clark was made to feel guilt about the fact that Earth would be destroyed because of his actions, then you are demoralizing the character that is Clark Kent/Superman. You are saying that he really doesn't care about Earthlings, and had someone not told him that the Earth would be destroyed if he didn't get the stones, then he would have cared less about getting the stones. He has shown that he wanted to find the stones, Jonathon was the one that has repeatidly told him to drop the subject. Every time a stone is mentioned Jonathon reminds him that he said he wanted to finish his senior year without worrying about the stones. Yet, as fate had it, he kept running across situations that caused him to be in contact, or hear that someone else was in contact with the stones. Clark didn't just go to China because Jor-El told him to get the stone, he also went because he knew Lex was already there and he knew he needed to get to the stone before Lex. He may have been running away from his destiny, but, he certainly wasn't going to allow someone else, especially Lex, find the stones and unlock his secrets.

Rengaw

05-24-2005, 08:28 PM

In forty years of watching TV I haven't had so much anticipation for another season of any other show.

This is by far the best TV on TV and I'm going to go crazy waiting for season 5.

Thanks to the entire cast and everyone who is responcible for Smallville in making my life in front of the tube worth living.

yeshuamyking7

05-24-2005, 09:56 PM

Commencement was terrific. The season finales always seem to get better each time, and this was no exception. It was truly one of the best nights Smallville has ever had. The special effects were amazing. The cliffhangers were great. I'm hoping that Season 5 opens exactly where Season 4 left off, rather than having a few months pass by. I really want to see what happens with Clark in Antarctica.

Sydafex7

05-25-2005, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
Lex never saw Clark, Chloe saw Clark, but Lex was too far around the corner to see anything but a light. The meteor went through the roof of the Kent home, but there is no way it could have landed inside the house, if it does at the premiere it will be like Chloe in the house when it exploded, clearly not what really happened. Lana's leg was the right leg, it was the left leg in Season 3, so I wonder if they will get it right. But you know how it is, it will be three months later or something like that and she will be healed..lol. I thought of Walden as well, especially when Clark was saying in his sleep "the day is coming." I loved that part, it managed to tie up a loose end from Season 2.

How can the meteor crash through the roof, but not make it through the house? What, it just stopped and landed in the attic? I highly doubt its momentum just stopped. That was a decent sized meteor. I highly doubt it didnt make it through the rest of the house.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-25-2005, 06:30 AM

Forgive me for not itterating the details, i thought most of you saw what happened. It went in at an angle that could not have kept it in the house. It hit the roof and out the otherside of the top floor wall. With that angle that is the only possible place it could have come out, and if they say it landed on Jason then it will be as believable as watching Chloe blowup in the house.

Summers

05-25-2005, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
Let's start, Peter Parker. Yes, Clark's age, doesn't have near Clark's powers, or Clark's situation. Peter Parker was thrown into this hero gig by shear chance, secondly, Park was more of a nerd than Clark could ever pretend to be as a grown up, and thus natural nerdish maturity will always outweigh even Superman. Clark was born with his powers and has had the chance to abuse them at times, and you know he has (i.e. 'Truth' Pete- when Clark goes supersonic he can get there and back in 7 minutes). X-Men, better, tthey were born with their gifts, but, they were raised under the leadership of someone of a similar problem and he taught them the value of harnessing their gifts and not acting like a foolish child. They were in a private school for people like them, they didn't go to a public school and have to deal with the things Clark did. Buffy???...lol..I know you are a fan of the show, but, could you stick to actual superheroes, you know, ones that were created like 70 years ago, and had running comics. But, hey, that's fine we can go with Buffy. You cannot tell me that she hasn't acted rather immature throughout that series, even in college. YOu know darn well that wasn't a good choice. lol.

Clark made poor decision because he was finally making them himself. Think about when you were a kid (I am assuming that you are above the teenage level), you couldn't make bad choices cause everything you decided was something your parents had to overlook first. When you get to 17 or 18 years of age, you are making more choices on your own, and making way more bad choices on your own. You can only learn and grow from bad choices, not from good ones. If Clark only made the right choice and never a bad one, then how could be believe that he was even a real person. It hasn't been a year, it's been what 6 to 8 months depending on when they get out of school.

I don't see how you think this is a guilt trip. Even that quote doesn't sound like a guilt trip. Are you aware of what a guilt trip really is? I am sure you have used it on people before, and warning them about forth coming events that will happen if they don't listen is not a guilt trip, that is a warning, at best it's a threat. You can't guilt trip someone if you are telling them that something bad will happen if they don't listen, that isn't a guilt trip. A guilt trip is making someone feel bad for not doing something you asked. If you are saying that Clark was made to feel guilt about the fact that Earth would be destroyed because of his actions, then you are demoralizing the character that is Clark Kent/Superman. You are saying that he really doesn't care about Earthlings, and had someone not told him that the Earth would be destroyed if he didn't get the stones, then he would have cared less about getting the stones. He has shown that he wanted to find the stones, Jonathon was the one that has repeatidly told him to drop the subject. Every time a stone is mentioned Jonathon reminds him that he said he wanted to finish his senior year without worrying about the stones. Yet, as fate had it, he kept running across situations that caused him to be in contact, or hear that someone else was in contact with the stones. Clark didn't just go to China because Jor-El told him to get the stone, he also went because he knew Lex was already there and he knew he needed to get to the stone before Lex. He may have been running away from his destiny, but, he certainly wasn't going to allow someone else, especially Lex, find the stones and unlock his secrets.

Gee, you did read my post. Buffy is now known as an "actual" superhero ;). I never said Buffy was never immature, but she matured a lot because of what happened in season 2. Buffy had to go through more than Clark have been. She was far more mature her senior year than Clark ever was. I'm not saying she wasnt immature, but we know where she was coming from. Why she acted the way she acted. Clark is known as the BDA for a reason.....still. SV's Clark is known for it, and that hasnt changed. Buffy knows about scarfrices. When she acts like a jerk she is called on. Whereas Clark never is :rolleyes: . She had more challenges than Clark has ever faced in Smallville. More and more your fanwanking Clark as a ideal person who just makes bad choices.Now your saying of course Peter was mature because he was nerd. And the X-Men just went to a private school as your evidence. Than say Buffy just made bad choices in college. She acted like a regular college freshman. It was realistic. I'm not talking about bad choices. I'm glad that emphasize something right about this CK, but it the actions afterwards that count. Buffy, Peter, and the X-Men teens are far more mature by admitting their mistakes and learning from them. Clark Kent has only admitted one mistake which was his decision in Exodus, and nothing else. Buffy and Peter Parker are put in higher regard than SV's Clark's immature level. Sorry, but that's the truth because we know why they made the decisions. Half the time throughout this season and last season most of the members here was saying "WTH" all the time with Clark. Clark hasnt progressed much since season 1. Buffy was a bad choice in your mind because you put Clark's actions on a higher ideal because he will be Superman. Well, he's not Superman...he's Clark Kent. SV's version of him is guilt driven BDA of Smallville High, and that's nothing something to held in high regard.

Clark has made bad choices, but he never learns from them or grows from them. That's the whole point. He still hasnt progressed. The natural progression of his character has resulted into regression all over again. Commencement was basically a mixture of Tempest and Covenant in one with his character.

A guilt trip is also telling something bad will happen. That's a guilt trip just not to narrowing down to neglecting something. A guilt trip is more than just that. Something bad will happen is another form of a guilt trip. Teachers, coaches, and parent use this one many times. Jor-El told him what happen. Gave him a guilt trip, and he knew exactly what Clark would do. Its easy to do. Its not that hard to figure out :lol:. Its pretty straightforward.

ImzadiJedi

05-25-2005, 12:49 PM

Are you saying that Clark hasn't grown during the last 4 seasons?

Summers

05-25-2005, 12:54 PM

That's one of the things I'm saying. Clark really hasnt progressed as he should in the past four years. He should have progressed a lot, but he still the same ol' BDA Clark. He progressed very little sadly.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-25-2005, 01:04 PM

Clark has grown since Season 1, alot. I don't put him on some sort of pedistal because he will be Superman, on the contrary, every is expecting him to make the right decision and always admit when he is wrong because he is supposed to become Superman. I don't necessarilly agree with that, because I know plenty of people that are stubborn enough to never admit when they are wrong, and have made some bad choices, and yet, they are some of the nicest people and the ones you can count on most of the time. What I am saying is that sometimes you can spend years at one stage in your life, and then after something specific changes (i.e. college, moving out, whatever you want) that usually creates this major change in people's personalities, their morals, their every way of life. I think that when Season 5 begins and progresses you will see some major changes in Clark, like the ones you are saying he hasn't truly fulfilled yet as a growing teenager, and that will come with his departure from home and into a more adult world where he will be forced to adapt to those types of maturity settings.

Why did you think I wouldn't read your post?

ImzadiJedi

05-25-2005, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Summers
That's one of the things I'm saying. Clark really hasnt progressed as he should in the past four years. He should have progressed a lot, but he still the same ol' BDA Clark. He progressed very little sadly.

Hopefully with the introduction of the FOS next season that will change. Unless the writers aren't capable of causing Clark to progress.

Summers

05-25-2005, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
Clark has grown since Season 1, alot. I don't put him on some sort of pedistal because he will be Superman, on the contrary, every is expecting him to make the right decision and always admit when he is wrong because he is supposed to become Superman. I don't necessarilly agree with that, because I know plenty of people that are stubborn enough to never admit when they are wrong, and have made some bad choices, and yet, they are some of the nicest people and the ones you can count on most of the time. What I am saying is that sometimes you can spend years at one stage in your life, and then after something specific changes (i.e. college, moving out, whatever you want) that usually creates this major change in people's personalities, their morals, their every way of life. I think that when Season 5 begins and progresses you will see some major changes in Clark, like the ones you are saying he hasn't truly fulfilled yet as a growing teenager, and that will come with his departure from home and into a more adult world where he will be forced to adapt to those types of maturity settings.

Why did you think I wouldn't read your post?

I didnt way wouldnt. I say have you read it. I was not talking about bad choices whatsoever. I'm talking about Clark as characterization using his actions after he made the choices as an example. He doesnt have a lot of characterization as compared to Lex because of the lack of progression, and the way he was handled in Commencement didnt help his character at all due to how they handled the stone arc. Hopefully he will have progression in Season 5 due to FoS, but to be the man he will become he is going to have to start acting like a man. Many people at his age has already started the path to manhood prior to him.

Becoming an adult doesnt really have to happen once uou live your childhood home. That is true for some, but not all. Maturity and adulthood actually happens at home for many people. It depends on the person, and where they are mentally. Clark has yet to reach that maturity level sadly given the fact he had experiences that turn teenagers into adults very quickly.

Originally posted by ImzadiJedi
Hopefully with the introduction of the FOS next season that will change. Unless the writers aren't capable of causing Clark to progress.

Hopefully they will. They have a lot to do make up for because of the way things were handled in the last four years.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-25-2005, 04:52 PM

Actually the majority mature into who they are as an adult after they leave home, not the other way around. Why, because when you leave home you are leaving behind all those things that kept you in that state of mind. It's hard to grow in maturity if you are surrounded by the same things that caused you already to act the way you do. I think you will see a lot of growth from him in Season 5, and not just cause of the FOS, but because he will start college and probably have more time spent in Metropolis.

Summers

05-25-2005, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
Actually the majority mature into who they are as an adult after they leave home, not the other way around. Why, because when you leave home you are leaving behind all those things that kept you in that state of mind. It's hard to grow in maturity if you are surrounded by the same things that caused you already to act the way you do. I think you will see a lot of growth from him in Season 5, and not just cause of the FOS, but because he will start college and probably have more time spent in Metropolis.

You cant say its a majority. I cant say its a majority. That's not true. Its more 50-50 than you think it is ;). I did studies on this doing my teaching classes, and there is no leaning to the majority. Dont make assumptions that can be confused with misconceptions. It all depends on a person's mental state. There are 18 yrs. that rely too much on the home due to the fact they never had hardcore experiences to have them acheive maturity. While others had those hardcore experiences that matured their mental state still at home. The home aspect really doesnt matter depending on the person, and can never be labeled as majority due to the fact its seen as 50-50 now.

The fact the matter is Clark is labeled as a teen who had hardcore experiences(like many teen superheroes), and he is not as matured as he should be. College doesnt always equal mature because as a 20-somethings they are finding their way where they belong in the world. TPTB are going to have to make leaps and bounds with Clark in season 5.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-25-2005, 05:23 PM

Ok, we'll say no clear majority can be acknowledged, but you cannot say the Clark isn't matured to where he needs to be. Are you his psychologist? Does he talk to you? You keep saying he isn't where he should be, when, in reality, you mean he isn't where you want him to be. If you think about it, you are nothing short of an acting god parent for a fictional character. Your opinion of where he is in his maturity and where he should be in his maturity doesn't matter, because, you have no idea where he is in his maturity. You are basing your conclusions on choices that he has made, when, you have no clear truth behind his madness. You don't know exactly what he is thinking, you only see the outcome. Oh, it's only considered 50-50 because no true test can be created to determine the actual percentage of who matures better where. The same thing goes for Nature vs. Nuture, which can be tied into Clark just the same. There is a combination of both. This includes the NvN theory, and the maturity theory. There is a level of maturity you reach at home, but, there is a level you cannot reach until you leave home. I know this personally, and I have seen it in others. It took my step sister leaving home at age 23 to finally realize how one should act in the real world. Now, that is why it is considered to be 50-50 as well, because, it isn't merely 50 % of the pop does and 50% doesn't, it's 50% of the growth you receive from your parents and the environment you grow up in and 50% you get when you leave. Everyone grows when they leave home, and I know you did when you left home. But, I don't know how much growing can be done in S. Cali.... ;)...joking. lol.

Sean

05-25-2005, 06:54 PM

"Best...Episode...Ever"

–The Comic Book Guy

Enialedam

05-25-2005, 07:52 PM

I just saw "Commencement" last night ... Wow! What a rush!!! And yet, what a dissapoitment! ... Four months until we can see what happens!

watcher4

05-25-2005, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by Summers
You cant say its a majority. I cant say its a majority. That's not true. Its more 50-50 than you think it is ;). I did studies on this doing my teaching classes, and there is no leaning to the majority. Dont make assumptions that can be confused with misconceptions. It all depends on a person's mental state. There are 18 yrs. that rely too much on the home due to the fact they never had hardcore experiences to have them acheive maturity. While others had those hardcore experiences that matured their mental state still at home. The home aspect really doesnt matter depending on the person, and can never be labeled as majority due to the fact its seen as 50-50 now.

The fact the matter is Clark is labeled as a teen who had hardcore experiences(like many teen superheroes), and he is not as matured as he should be. College doesnt always equal mature because as a 20-somethings they are finding their way where they belong in the world. TPTB are going to have to make leaps and bounds with Clark in season 5.

I am a little "nervous" to see what those leaps and bounds are going to be.

Summers

05-25-2005, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
Ok, we'll say no clear majority can be acknowledged, but you cannot say the Clark isn't matured to where he needs to be. Are you his psychologist? Does he talk to you? You keep saying he isn't where he should be, when, in reality, you mean he isn't where you want him to be. If you think about it, you are nothing short of an acting god parent for a fictional character. Your opinion of where he is in his maturity and where he should be in his maturity doesn't matter, because, you have no idea where he is in his maturity. You are basing your conclusions on choices that he has made, when, you have no clear truth behind his madness. You don't know exactly what he is thinking, you only see the outcome. Oh, it's only considered 50-50 because no true test can be created to determine the actual percentage of who matures better where. The same thing goes for Nature vs. Nuture, which can be tied into Clark just the same. There is a combination of both. This includes the NvN theory, and the maturity theory. There is a level of maturity you reach at home, but, there is a level you cannot reach until you leave home. I know this personally, and I have seen it in others. It took my step sister leaving home at age 23 to finally realize how one should act in the real world. Now, that is why it is considered to be 50-50 as well, because, it isn't merely 50 % of the pop does and 50% doesn't, it's 50% of the growth you receive from your parents and the environment you grow up in and 50% you get when you leave. Everyone grows when they leave home, and I know you did when you left home. But, I don't know how much growing can be done in S. Cali.... ;)...joking. lol.

Ouch, touch a nerve enough to check my profile...huh. If I did touch a nerve it was never intended on purpose. Sorry, I was just making a point.

Your are putting your own experience into Clark's behavior. Its statistically proven that teens that have hardcore experiences while at home grow up more mature than those that dont. Clark had to deal with experiences you never had to. I had to grow up mentally in high school due to reasons that were out my control. i had to grow up, and make scarfices I knew was the right decision. I had to. No one else but me. I rarely ever was a teenager. I had hardcore experiences in metaphorically speaking that paralleled X-Men, Spiderman, and Buffy. Clark majority of the time causes his own problems, and he is never reprimnded. Clark isnt you, and not you mentally. With the experience he had psychology speaking he is not on his maturity level as he should. Clark isnt a normal teenager. He has experiences that are hardcore, and yet dont phase them a bit. A lot of that is due to the PTB's lack in emotional character development.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-25-2005, 10:36 PM

What you consider hardcore may not be what others consider to be hardcore. Something that you may have taken to be hardcore reality checks, may have been just another day at the park to some. You said it exactly, just because I experience something doesn't mean that it is true to the whole. Just because you had tough experiences in high school doesn't mean they relate to Clark. You have look at it like this, his experiences seem more hardcore cause he has FOTWs to deal with and the burden of his secret not being unearthed. Remove those two aspects and you have just a normal teenager who just hasn't matured in the maturity area as much as some would like him to.

Oh, you didn't touch a nerve, I tend to look at alot of people's profiles that I have long discussions back and forth with, and I read yours well before I posted that little remark about where you are from. I was only using it in jest, I wasn't being serious about it.

Summers

05-25-2005, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
What you consider hardcore may not be what others consider to be hardcore. Something that you may have taken to be hardcore reality checks, may have been just another day at the park to some. You said it exactly, just because I experience something doesn't mean that it is true to the whole. Just because you had tough experiences in high school doesn't mean they relate to Clark. You have look at it like this, his experiences seem more hardcore cause he has FOTWs to deal with and the burden of his secret not being unearthed. Remove those two aspects and you have just a normal teenager who just hasn't matured in the maturity area as much as some would like him to.

Oh, you didn't touch a nerve, I tend to look at alot of people's profiles that I have long discussions back and forth with, and I read yours well before I posted that little remark about where you are from. I was only using it in jest, I wasn't being serious about it.

Okay, I was like "sorry, I didnt mean anything towards you" :(.

I didnt have tough experiences in high school. Well, everyone does but I had to grow up due to the environment out of school that were out of my control. Which did parallel my favorite superheroes experiences. But Clark isnt a normal teenager, and he had hard core experiences.

Clark experienced:
-causing the death of his baby sibling
-causing everyone else pain
-criminal spree(never to be heard again :mad: )
-Alicia's death(never heard from again)
-Ryan's death(never heard again)
-the Phantom Zone
I mean I could go on, but nothing phased him except for what happened to Jonathan. That's it. I really dont like how they writtened Clark. I love that made him relateable with the bad choices, but its the aftermath of those choices that is never talked about and he never grows from them :(.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-26-2005, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by Summers
Okay, I was like "sorry, I didnt mean anything towards you" :(.

I didnt have tough experiences in high school. Well, everyone does but I had to grow up due to the environment out of school that were out of my control. Which did parallel my favorite superheroes experiences. But Clark isnt a normal teenager, and he had hard core experiences.

Clark experienced:
-causing the death of his baby sibling
-causing everyone else pain
-criminal spree(never to be heard again :mad: )
-Alicia's death(never heard from again)
-Ryan's death(never heard again)
-the Phantom Zone
I mean I could go on, but nothing phased him except for what happened to Jonathan. That's it. I really dont like how they writtened Clark. I love that made him relateable with the bad choices, but its the aftermath of those choices that is never talked about and he never grows from them :(.

I wasn't blasting you, I was just clarifying that you didn't offend me even by accident. I'm sorry for misinterpreting what you were saying.

Clark's experiences, yes he had alot of turmoil in his life. But, did you want him sulking over them all season? If he had, I guarantee you that everyone, possibly you, would have said the opposite "geeze Clark, get over it." It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't. They can't have him grieve stricken all season. The baby, he left smallville just like any teenager probably would have done if they caused the death of a yet unborn sibling. He was devastated. He is still learned who he is, and I think that is overpowering his ability to learn how to act. He is still trying to find his niche in society. Is he alien, is he human, is he both. If he is an alien does he have to follow what his father says? He has basically been running scared since season 2 of what he was really sent here for. You say he hasn't grown, but, in this final episode, when he goes to seek the stones that is the choice of a man.

You may say that he was guilt tripped into it, but, he wasn't. Jor-El told him what was going to happen and why it was going to happen, and that was it. It was Clark's choice to stay behind and face the music. He stepped up as a man and took responsibility for the event (not outloud obviously) and made a choice, on his own, to stay and find the stones so that he could prevent the Earth's destruction. That choice was his alone, and no guilt trip could have produced it. If he hadn't what would have happened, nothing, he would have been killed along with everyone else, but, atleast he wouldn't have to listen to Jor-El anymore. The moment he decided to stay was the moment he realized that he had to put aside these petty childish games and be a man, the man he is going to become. This final episode shows Clark acting more like a man, he is serious, determined, and willing to go to great lengths to save the world, a world that he really doesn't know other than Smallville. I think this could be the one moment that shocks him into manhood more than anything.

fmulder60

05-26-2005, 08:39 AM

My DVR malfunctioned and I missed the last 15 minutes. Did anybody tape this on VHS or record on DVD

Sydafex7

05-26-2005, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Summers
A guilt trip is also telling something bad will happen. That's a guilt trip just not to narrowing down to neglecting something. A guilt trip is more than just that. Something bad will happen is another form of a guilt trip. Teachers, coaches, and parent use this one many times. Jor-El told him what happen. Gave him a guilt trip, and he knew exactly what Clark would do. Its easy to do. Its not that hard to figure out . Its pretty straightforward.

Lastson is right, you are not describing a guilt trip. there arent "different forms" of guilt trips and if there are, the one you mentioned isnt one of them.

Summers

05-26-2005, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Sydafex7
Lastson is right, you are not describing a guilt trip. there arent "different forms" of guilt trips and if there are, the one you mentioned isnt one of them.

Actually there are different forms of guilt trips. Parents, teachers, and coaches use them all the time depending on the situation. There are different forms of parenting, and there different forms of guilt trips. Its not a black and white issue that some people think ;). Sometimes you have to actually be in the mindset of the person doing the guilt trip, and not the child.

One episode doesnt make a boy into man. Its has to be more than that.....consistently and not in spurts. Clark wasnt has proactive as he should have been in Commencement. Man, I read so many threads on how less determined Clark looked and he was. Sorry, but Clark is still just a little boy until they start showing some darn good consistency and progression with his character. I was watching Leech the other day, and well Clark progressed very little.

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

You may say that he was guilt tripped into it, but, he wasn't. Jor-El told him what was going to happen and why it was going to happen, and that was it. It was Clark's choice to stay behind and face the music. He stepped up as a man and took responsibility for the event (not outloud obviously) and made a choice, on his own, to stay and find the stones so that he could prevent the Earth's destruction. That choice was his alone, and no guilt trip could have produced it.

That already wouldve tooked placed after the events in Sacred ;). They had good opportunity to do it then. To show how much he grown, and guess what we went straight back in lame filler episodes that didnt concentrate on Clark's progression. They made him stagnate which made Sacred have very little impact. Clark knew the stones would lead into destruction, and he still didnt do anything about it until it was too late. He already knew Commencement didnt change that. After Sacred Clark couldve been far more determined to do the right thing. He knew what the stones would do if they put in the wrongs hands. He knew they would lead to utter destruction of Earth, and he did nothing. Jor-El had to tell his little boy what to do again. His choice occured way back in Sacred. He chose not to. In Commencement that's not showing Clark is a man. That's show how immature and reckless he still is. He knows the difference between doing the right thing and wrong thing. His choice actually occured after Sacred, and Commencement was the consequence of his lack of determination and deny his Kryptonian hertiage. In Commencement he was trying the fix the problem he caused...yet again. That is why it was very easy for Jor-El to guilt trip Clark with a the truth since Clark knows he is one of the variables that brought the second meteor shower ;).

Clark is still the BDA unfortnuately.....leaps and bounds in season 5 which means they are going to have to slighty reboot his character for it to work, and to actually have consistency with it. Sorry, I dont give Clark a lot of credit especially after his lack of determination after Sacred. He had slight determination in Commencement due to the meteor shower coming, but still he took his sweet time in the finale.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-26-2005, 04:31 PM

He didn't take his sweet time in the finale, he was superspeeding everywhere. What did you want him to do, stop time and mosey across the plains? He went straight to Jor-El, found out what happened and what was coming, told his parents he had to stay, said goodbye, went to the barn where Lana was apparently waiting, luckly got that stone from her, sped to Lex's got that stone, sped to the cave, got the new makeshift stone, was dropped at the arctic, there ya go. He wasn't driving Pa's truck around.

Summers

05-26-2005, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
He didn't take his sweet time in the finale, he was superspeeding everywhere. What did you want him to do, stop time and mosey across the plains? He went straight to Jor-El, found out what happened and what was coming, told his parents he had to stay, said goodbye, went to the barn where Lana was apparently waiting, luckly got that stone from her, sped to Lex's got that stone, sped to the cave, got the new makeshift stone, was dropped at the arctic, there ya go. He wasn't driving Pa's truck around.

No. He did not go straight to Jor-El. He waited. He took this time of all times to listen to his parents even though all season he disobeyed them :lol:. He wasted time in barn...heck, he was walking to the barn of all things. It was blind luck he got the stone from Lana...blind luck. He sped to Lex's mansion not only to get it, but to stop the pain in his brain as well. There was mixture to stop the bloody pain in his brain in that sped run. Who wouldnt be more determined to stop the pain. He didnt just put the water stone in the chamber right away. He in fact walked around the pedestal first before placing it during the meteor shower :eek:. If he was so determined to save SV he wouldnt walk around the bloody thing, but automatically place it in there without a moment of hestination to save others.

I'm not the only one who saw him take his sweet time. There was thread on this exact same thing the day after Commencement aired.

The Seer

05-26-2005, 06:01 PM

I would be a little scared inserting those stones too.

He had no idea what would happen when uniting those stones, he had no idea where the stones were.

Uniting the stones was not going to stop the shower. It isn't like the meteors would just dissappear when they united.

The Stones will build the FOS that will give him the ability to stop the Eradicator from eradicating the planet Earth. That is what he had to do. That is what he is racing to stop.

Sydafex7

05-26-2005, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Summers
One episode doesnt make a boy into man. Its has to be more than that.....consistently and not in spurts. Clark wasnt has proactive as he should have been in Commencement. Man, I read so many threads on how less determined Clark looked and he was. Sorry, but Clark is still just a little boy until they start showing some darn good consistency and progression with his character. I was watching Leech the other day, and well Clark progressed very little.That already wouldve tooked placed after the events in Sacred ;). They had good opportunity to do it then. To show how much he grown, and guess what we went straight back in lame filler episodes that didnt concentrate on Clark's progression. They made him stagnate which made Sacred have very little impact. Clark knew the stones would lead into destruction, and he still didnt do anything about it until it was too late. He already knew Commencement didnt change that. After Sacred Clark couldve been far more determined to do the right thing. He knew what the stones would do if they put in the wrongs hands. He knew they would lead to utter destruction of Earth, and he did nothing. Jor-El had to tell his little boy what to do again. His choice occured way back in Sacred. He chose not to. In Commencement that's not showing Clark is a man. That's show how immature and reckless he still is. He knows the difference between doing the right thing and wrong thing. His choice actually occured after Sacred, and Commencement was the consequence of his lack of determination and deny his Kryptonian hertiage. In Commencement he was trying the fix the problem he caused...yet again. That is why it was very easy for Jor-El to guilt trip Clark with a the truth since Clark knows he is one of the variables that brought the second meteor shower ;).

Clark is still the BDA unfortnuately.....leaps and bounds in season 5 which means they are going to have to slighty reboot his character for it to work, and to actually have consistency with it. Sorry, I dont give Clark a lot of credit especially after his lack of determination after Sacred. He had slight determination in Commencement due to the meteor shower coming, but still he took his sweet time in the finale.

No, it's not like they couldve done it in sacred and chose not to. Clark went home and told his ParentsI thought the stones were meant for me, but now I dont because they were guarded by Kryptonite. He wouldve embraced is destiny after Sacred, but he didnt because he didnt think the stones were MEANT for him. This is why we didnt see Clark trying to get the stones after sacred, because honestly didnt think they were meant for him. He didnt say to Jor-el "Those stones have nothing to do with me" in Commencement because he was trying to deny his destinly, he actually didnt believe they were for him. He wasnt making excuses.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-26-2005, 06:38 PM

Summers you focus way to heavily on that pain in the brain theory of yours. The pain is just to alert him that the some kryptonian artifact is about to taken control over by someone that should not have it, namely Lex. He doesn't just go shooting to get some stone, key or whatever just to stop the headache, he knows why he has the headache and he rushes off to go retrieve whatever it happens to be at that time from someone that is evil that is trying to use, take, or otherwise have control over that object.

Summers

05-26-2005, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Sydafex7
No, it's not like they couldve done it in sacred and chose not to. Clark went home and told his ParentsI thought the stones were meant for me, but now I dont because they were guarded by Kryptonite. He wouldve embraced is destiny after Sacred, but he didnt because he didnt think the stones were MEANT for him. This is why we didnt see Clark trying to get the stones after sacred, because honestly didnt think they were meant for him. He didnt say to Jor-el "Those stones have nothing to do with me" in Commencement because he was trying to deny his destinly, he actually didnt believe they were for him. He wasnt making excuses.

I know that silly lol. I'm showing another way they couldve handled it :D. But that is an excuse Clark gave. It was an excuse as a easy way out. Even though he believed the stones werent for him, then he shouldve thought the big picture. Say "hey, these stones may not be for me but the world maybe in peril if I dont do something." I mean there are things that arent meant for us, but we help people anyways because we are good natured. If they done this it would emphasived part of Superman in him. He wouldnt be thinking of himself, but for others still thinking it wasnt meant for him. It wouldve been so ideal, and showed such emphasis on Clark Kent's characterization instead of the stagnate in the last half of the season. But it didnt happen but rather showed his consequence of his choice after Sacred. Which fine, and it showed what level he is at mentally and maturity. It emphasized Clark is still a long ways away before having the mentality of Superman. A long way.

Just to be clear I'm not bashing Clark for his choices. In fact, I love that he does make choices, but he also has to be accounted for them. They rarely ever account him for it after he makes the choice he makes. He is rarely reprimanded for is choices which is a pet peeve by many fans. Commencement held true the consequences of the choices Lex, Lana, and Clark made. That's one of the things I loved about Commencement is that central theme. IMO that is beautiful, but they have to be put in context of the big picture sometimes in a series. What may be cool at the time of an episode may actually hinder the development in the long run.

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
Summers you focus way to heavily on that pain in the brain theory of yours. The pain is just to alert him that the some kryptonian artifact is about to taken control over by someone that should not have it, namely Lex. He doesn't just go shooting to get some stone, key or whatever just to stop the headache, he knows why he has the headache and he rushes off to go retrieve whatever it happens to be at that time from someone that is evil that is trying to use, take, or otherwise have control over that object.

Its not my theory :lol:. It was actually a consesus(sp?)...sorry I'm a terrible speller in the spoiler forum that flowed out here. It was Spoon AZ and Unbreakable Lex's theory. The pain of the stones and in fact the Key tiggers intense brainwaves. It triggers only to certain people it wants to contact. Which is why only Jonathan heard the ringing in Legacy, and Clark didnt. The Key focused solely on Jonathan's brainwave.

I said it was mixture to stop the pain, and to get the stone ;). I mean if we have pain, then we are going to try to cease the pain :lol:. Its a physical response that we all have since we were little ones. So it wasnt pure determination to get the stone. It was also to stop that bloody pain in his head lol.

Originally posted by The Seer

The Stones will build the FOS that will give him the ability to stop the Eradicator from eradicating the planet Earth. That is what he had to do. That is what he is racing to stop.

Uh, I know the story and the reasons why :D. I read a lot on the Superman mythos. I just love to debate, and I sometimes play devil's advocate so both are sides are shown :).

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-27-2005, 06:13 AM

It's a side effect, the point being that it sends out an alert, mainly to Clark (except Jonathon the one time) so that Clark will no where to find it and that he knows he needs to find it quick. The alert is just so loud in Clark's head that it causes pain. I think the reason it causes pain is because it is transmitting a sort of GPS location to him. Remember in Crusade, the same thing happened, except he was only in pain for a brief moment, then he got his "Kal memory" back and new exactly where the stone was. I think it hurts Clark more because he still hasn't accepted his heritage quite yet, and that it was it is continuos till he gets to it. But, I still think that the reason it hurts is because his brain is being downloaded with the whereabouts of whatever the artifact happens to be.

As for the instances where they already had the key, it was just saying "Hey, come get me, someone wants to talk to you" namely Jor-El. The reason it hurts is because the brain is being supercharged with info (i.e. Dr. Waldon and his cerebral cortex, except his was much more severe).

You were close, it's CONCENSUS.

CapraIII

05-27-2005, 06:16 AM

Um, no it's not. The word's spelled "consensus." Now what's this post about?

Yeah, it was a pretty good episode, I thought.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-27-2005, 06:20 AM

how even more embarrassing on my part, but, I was closer than Summers..lol. But, still more embarrassing.

The thread started about the episode, and then turned into a debate about the maturity of Clark, and just recently about the humming effect of the stones on Clark. Just go back 1 page and start, or maybe 2.

CapraIII

05-27-2005, 06:22 AM

Cool cool. Sorry to call you out on the consensus thing- I'm just finnicky with that sort of stuff. And man, 13 pages of thread is a lot to go through, so I just thought I'd skip reading all of it.

As for the humming effect, I dunno.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-27-2005, 06:25 AM

it's all good, if I make a mistake i don't mind being corrected.

Just go back a couple of pages, you will see where it starts, or just go back 1 to see where Summers and I started the topic of the humming stones. I have to go to work, read those and post whatever. That tends to happen on every thread, we go on tangents..lol wild ones.

Summers

05-27-2005, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
It's a side effect, the point being that it sends out an alert, mainly to Clark (except Jonathon the one time) so that Clark will no where to find it and that he knows he needs to find it quick. The alert is just so loud in Clark's head that it causes pain. I think the reason it causes pain is because it is transmitting a sort of GPS location to him. Remember in Crusade, the same thing happened, except he was only in pain for a brief moment, then he got his "Kal memory" back and new exactly where the stone was. I think it hurts Clark more because he still hasn't accepted his heritage quite yet, and that it was it is continuos till he gets to it. But, I still think that the reason it hurts is because his brain is being downloaded with the whereabouts of whatever the artifact happens to be.

As for the instances where they already had the key, it was just saying "Hey, come get me, someone wants to talk to you" namely Jor-El. The reason it hurts is because the brain is being supercharged with info (i.e. Dr. Waldon and his cerebral cortex, except his was much more severe).

You were close, it's CONCENSUS.

:lol: the word is not easy to spell is it :lol:. I ffeel better lol.

IMO It would be hard to tell the level of intensity of the pain the brainwave is. The point is it hurts like heck lol. Who wouldnt want to stop....well, unless its a person who likes pain lol.

Kal in Crusade knew what he was doing before the ringing. He was looking for the sign remember. He knew exactly what he was doing he just waiting which he didnt want to do, and was determined enough to leave the hospital just of find the sign.

IMO Its just an easy way to get Clark/Kal to a location quickly is all. Not because of his hertiage though. It used a person's specific frequency brainwave. The Key and the stones' ringing was used for the same purpose of "I'm ringing, so better come and get me". Its was pure retreviveal. Still the stones' ringed primarly for initial activation primarly.

Unbreakable Lex

05-27-2005, 12:31 PM

I'm lucky enough to have actually seen a movie about Clark Kent. It was called Superman The Movie.

In it, Clark Kent heard a loud painful ringing. He went to it and followed it almost like sonar.

I’m willing to bet the elements caused the same type of ringing, which was loud and painful. Clark is able to track the elements by following the ringing. Isn't that a lovely idea. He uses the ringing to locate the stones. That’s why the stones ring. To alert any near by protector of the elements to know they are now in danger, I.E. Lex breaking open the fire element, Lex getting near the water element, Isobel getting near the Air Element, etc...

Clark didn't know what to believe regarding the stones and combining them. The last time his father did something like this Clark ended up being brainwashed for three months.

He reluctantly and being guided by faith joined the three stones.

I think some of you need to sit back and forget about who this boy becomes and worry about what the hell he is going through to become the man he will become.

Please, remember, you know more then any of the cast. They haven’t lived the parts of their lives we know they will eventually live. Grow with them, I’m telling you, it makes it better!

Sean

05-27-2005, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by fmulder60
My DVR malfunctioned and I missed the last 15 minutes. Did anybody tape this on VHS or record on DVD

Just download it.

Crazy4Smallville

05-27-2005, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Sean
Just download it.

How does one just download?

Sean

05-27-2005, 12:48 PM

Um...search for a torrent site on the internet

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-27-2005, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Summers
:lol: the word is not easy to spell is it :lol:. I ffeel better lol.

IMO It would be hard to tell the level of intensity of the pain the brainwave is. The point is it hurts like heck lol. Who wouldnt want to stop....well, unless its a person who likes pain lol.

Kal in Crusade knew what he was doing before the ringing. He was looking for the sign remember. He knew exactly what he was doing he just waiting which he didnt want to do, and was determined enough to leave the hospital just of find the sign.

IMO Its just an easy way to get Clark/Kal to a location quickly is all. Not because of his hertiage though. It used a person's specific frequency brainwave. The Key and the stones' ringing was used for the same purpose of "I'm ringing, so better come and get me". Its was pure retreviveal. Still the stones' ringed primarly for initial activation primarly.

Yes, he was waiting for the sign, but, why, when he got the sign, did the humming not continue for him atleast until he got the stone? It stopped beaming pain into his head almost the moment it started, hence my reasoning in that it downloads the person's brain with the location of where it is, and the alert that it needs to be found. Or, that it is downloading a message for that person (i.e. when the key did the hum to Jonathon, or Clark, when he put it in the wall). I think the hum has many levels of meanings, but, they aren't just some pain caused in an effort to be retrieved. I think the pain is a side effect of what is really happening.

But, this would never be tackled in the show, just because they don't want to put the effort or time into devising a specific reason why they hum, that is why we have threads.

It wasn't just pure retrieval, it was saying that if you don't get me someone that isn't supposed to have me will get me, come quick.

side note: yes it is hard to remember how to spell that, I was trying to spell it like census, the thing everyone fills out for the government.

Unbreakable Lex

05-27-2005, 01:12 PM

What if the ringing persisted but the Sound editor takes it out?

That makes the most sense to me.

Clark has to continue hearing it until he gets the stone. Could you imagine how annoying the show would be if the ringing was in the sound everytime he was shown flying? The entire fight with Isobel or when he was looking into Lex's vault? Painful to say the least.

Now add to that the fact that once they rung he knew where to find them and the answer is clear. He simply followed the ringing and used the noise to pinpoint the location.

Summers

05-27-2005, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Unbreakable Lex

I think some of you need to sit back and forget about who this boy becomes and worry about what the hell he is going through to become the man he will become.

Please, remember, you know more then any of the cast. They haven’t lived the parts of their lives we know they will eventually live. Grow with them, I’m telling you, it makes it better!

That's true for some who want to see it like that. Which its fine, but in the end its can hinder character development as a whole when the series is over, and we are already in the fourth season. What he goes through seems to be forgetton quite easily unfortunately which is a mistake in the end IMO. There are many fans who cant see SV's Clark Kent becoming Superman.

IMO We need to remember the man he will become to emphasize that he still has a long way to go. That TPTB need to focus more on his progression. He's 18 yrs. old, and still seen by many as a mere boy.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-27-2005, 09:12 PM

If that was true, then why even show any of his powers? They could show it to us once and from then on save money by just not showing them, because we already know what it looks like when he uses them.

In Crusade, the ringing has clearly stopped in his head. He falls to the ground from the headache, then pops up (the sound stops for us) and the sound stops for him. My theory is that since he was reprogrammed in full Kryptonian mode, it didn't need to keep ringing to alert him or give more directions, because he was going to go after it after the first ring. But, with Clark, the ringing always persists because he doesn't want anything to do with the stones or his destiny, so, to get his butt in gear the ringing continues till he finds the stone.

He is still a mere boy. Just cause you are considered an adult when you turn 18, doesn't necessarily mean that you are one. You don't just develop the persona of an adult the second you turn 18, as I am sure you know that, being what 25? (not a personal attack on you) Some mature into adults early, some mature later, after they have turned 18, sometimes even 20. There is nothing that says he has to act like an adult from the moment we meet him, or atleast be as mature as one when he becomes a legal adult.

Summers

05-27-2005, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

He is still a mere boy. Just cause you are considered an adult when you turn 18, doesn't necessarily mean that you are one. You don't just develop the persona of an adult the second you turn 18, as I am sure you know that, being what 25? (not a personal attack on you) Some mature into adults early, some mature later, after they have turned 18, sometimes even 20. There is nothing that says he has to act like an adult from the moment we meet him, or atleast be as mature as one when he becomes a legal adult.

I'm not talking about the legal sense of an adult. I'm saying any 18 yr. old shouldnt been seen as a boy or a girl. But as a young adult, and...well many of us still see him as a boy even though he actually at the age bracket of a young adult now.

But here is a guy who had hardcore experiences, and the reason why he still resembles a mere boy because the writers seem only to remember a few experiences he had. He should be somewhat mature at least by now to an extent where we can see him as a young adult. From all that he been through(which is forgotten by the writers majority of the time) he still is just a boy. We dont have many seasons, if we are lucky maybe one left, they are going to have make leaps and bounds which may result in a Dawson's Creek finale where they jumped ahead five years.

Which would be fine it worked great on Dawson, and they might have do the same in Smallville. Because in the long run it could be a dangerous characterization problem in the end. Clark Kent in Smallville shouldnt be so immature because of what he been through. In seasons 3 and 4 he been through stagnation and regression which is dangerous in writing. Many people didnt like the football arc(personally I loved), but it is seen as regression.

I'm just saying I'm apprehensive that we will run out of time, and they might mess up Clark's character in the long run because they didnt have the continuity and concentration on Clark as they should have. I'm just apprehensive is all.

btw, if I dont reply back tomorrow its because I'm enjoying my Memorial Day weekend. Which I hope everyone has a safe weekend :).

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-27-2005, 11:09 PM

Well, I don't agree that he hasn't matured, I think that he has matured alot since the first season. Just as you have said, he has had hardcore experiences, alot more difficult than most people could possibly fathum, and you just expect him to learn right away with it. In the past 3 years (not including season 1), the boy has learned where he truly comes from, made assumptions into what he was sent here for, has been called everything from a God to an alien, keeps finding new powers that he has to learn to control, was thought to be the ender of the world by some (i.e. Dr. Waldon), keeps being tested by his birth father, everything time he tries to make a decision in the best interest of not only himself but of others something horrible goes wrong and people get hurt because of it, he has inadvertently caused the loss of a babies life, the aging of his father's heart, the injury to close friends, so forth and so on. The boy can't learn from his mistakes, past hardcore experiences, or any of that stuff, because it is so sporadically continuous (oxymoron- but basically it happens all the time but so randomize that he can't predict it's coming) that he cannot grow and mature from it because, what do ya know, here comes something else that will further dig a hole that he has sunk into from so much pain.

Now, if you are going to talk about how the writers don't keep things around, like the loss of Alicia and what that did to Clark, well, get over that, cause it is a tv show and no tv show will keep bringing up facts from the past throughout each of the seasons. Smallville does a much better job than most about keeping ties to previous seasons and episodes, but, sometimes you just have to let the things like Clark getting over Alicia's death quite soon (i.e. next episode) slide because there are more important things to the show, like what they are going to say his destiny really is.

Summers

05-27-2005, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
Well, I don't agree that he hasn't matured, I think that he has matured alot since the first season. Just as you have said, he has had hardcore experiences, alot more difficult than most people could possibly fathum, and you just expect him to learn right away with it. In the past 3 years (not including season 1

Now, if you are going to talk about how the writers don't keep things around, like the loss of Alicia and what that did to Clark, well, get over that, cause it is a tv show and no tv show will keep bringing up facts from the past throughout each of the seasons. Smallville does a much better job than most about keeping ties to previous seasons and episodes, but, sometimes you just have to let the things like Clark getting over Alicia's death quite soon (i.e. next episode) slide because there are more important things to the show, like what they are going to say his destiny really is.

I dont expect him learn right away. In fact, I expected him to grow from the experience like any normal person. He hasnt grow that much as he should since season 1 I'm afraid. He has been acting the same way, and reacted in the same way over and over again about his Kryptonian hertiage. Its getting repetitive and stagnate.

In fact, Smallville is labeled with the worst continuity ever. I mean we were expecting one line just one line about Alicia in Recruit, and we got none. Its not hard to do it. I seen shows with awesome continuity with bigger casts from Friends, Desperate Housewives, Buffy, Angel, and Star Trek. Its not hard to make one reference. Its really not, and if you neglect it can make the main character look like a jerk. Many people saw Clark as a jerk for not mentioning Alicia. The whole bad execution of not mentioning Alicia is one of a long list of discontinuity Smallville has done. I seen threads on this board and many other boards that point out the bad continuity(and majority of it is not interpretative).

Its not hard to make references, or to keep the emotional continuity of the characters because those events make up who that character is. Just like any human being are choices and experiences make up who we are. If you forget them, or forget the emotinality of those experiences they are basically treating the character very badly as well as the audience. Some people I talked to left because the bad continuity started to become annoying, so they stopped watching.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-27-2005, 11:43 PM

desperate housewives doesn't count cause the entire first season revolves around a single event that started at the beginning of the show.

Smallville has made references to previous episodes and in previous seasons before, really, it's just a problem of so many different writers working on one show. When you bring in different writers for different episodes there is always problems not only with continuity, but with character development, and with tones in the story and characters. One of the many problems with all tv shows.

Summers

05-27-2005, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
desperate housewives doesn't count cause the entire first season revolves around a single event that started at the beginning of the show.

Smallville has made references to previous episodes and in previous seasons before, really, it's just a problem of so many different writers working on one show. When you bring in different writers for different episodes there is always problems not only with continuity, but with character development, and with tones in the story and characters. One of the many problems with all tv shows.

Continuity is continuity no matter if its one season or more because we are talking about connecting the episodes to flow. And connecting the emotionality of the characters between episodes ;).

Well, all shows have plot holes but Smallville has glaring plotholes that are very very noticeable because there are just so darn many. Many of us believe its due to the writers not being on the same page as their co-workers. They are not writing as a cohesive writing staff. IMO the problem occured when each season a new writing team came in, and they were not up to date on the episodes and TPTB not caring about the continuity.

I'm just saying for any good solid characterization to work, and emphasize progression of a main character in a series, book, and films they need pretty solid consistent continuity. Its not as hard as it looks considering there many shows that rock at it. Continuity is a huge issue in character development, and its a definite must.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-28-2005, 12:07 AM

Yes it is a huge issue, and also one that is hard to catch, follow, and repeat, especially when you have new writers constently.

Anyway, no matter how many faux pas there are, Commencement was still one of the best episodes, ever.

ImzadiJedi

05-28-2005, 01:32 AM

Unfortanately it seems writers have a hard time with keeping continuity on television shows. :(

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-28-2005, 06:38 AM

this is very true. it's hard for even steady writers to remember long ago things, even though us fans can remember it all. They get caught up in trying to find something new for us, that they forget about the old stuff that needs to be answered. Then when you add the fact that steady writers don't exist anymore, and you have different writers on each episode just about, it just adds more confusion because each is trying to bring it's own feel to the show.

ImzadiJedi

05-28-2005, 12:02 PM

Hopefully the exective or associate producers keep a tap on those things but it seems like they don't.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-28-2005, 12:34 PM

executive and associative producers have nothing to do with it, they just fork over the money and make sure the thing is done on time, they don't pay attention to that stuff. The is the job of the producer, script supervisor, director and the writing staff. Since the director changes places as much as the writing staff, that leaves it on the Producer and the script surpervisor, and again they are more focused on deadlines and making sure that a cup that is half full in one shot is still half full in another shot. The way they see it, the show is entertainment and if it does that, anything that is lost in the storyline is expendible.

Somebody Stop Me

05-28-2005, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
executive and associative producers have nothing to do with it, they just fork over the money and make sure the thing is done on time, they don't pay attention to that stuff. The is the job of the producer, script supervisor, director and the writing staff. Since the director changes places as much as the writing staff, that leaves it on the Producer and the script surpervisor, and again they are more focused on deadlines and making sure that a cup that is half full in one shot is still half full in another shot. The way they see it, the show is entertainment and if it does that, anything that is lost in the storyline is expendible.

And just how would you know that? Are you working in the movie industry?

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-28-2005, 01:12 PM

1. because I read enough, to know that is what happens.
2. there is an invention called television, I am sure you know about it, that's why you are on this site, and it has shows and on these shows there are documentaries and channels purely devoted to movies and film making and other such things that are involved in that process.
3. try watching Project Greenlight

Lana_Lang #1

05-28-2005, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
1. because I read enough, to know that is what happens.
2. there is an invention called television, I am sure you know about it, that's why you are on this site, and it has shows and on these shows there are documentaries and channels purely devoted to movies and film making and other such things that are involved in that process.
3. try watching Project Greenlight

1. We were just wonderig how you knew that, what your sources were, we don't really care much about whatever you've read unless we can verify it ourselves.

2. That second statement was extremely sarcastic and rude, we all know what documentaries are, just tell us which one(s) you saw, there's no need for you to be a huge jerk about it.

3. Maybe we would if you were nice about it and convinced us exactly why we should watch it.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-28-2005, 06:44 PM

Well, I was only being sarcastic to Somebody, because he only responded to that post to bust my chops, because we have been debating back and forth on another thread. The sarcasm and rude behavior was only directed at him. Read his statement, and read it good, it is quite obvious he is being sarcastic to me. We have been being sarcastic to each other on the other thread, and he saw that I posted on this and so posted beneath me to heckle me.

I apologize if I offended you or someone else.

Somebody Stop Me

05-29-2005, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by Lana_Lang #1
1. We were just wonderig how you knew that, what your sources were, we don't really care much about whatever you've read unless we can verify it ourselves.

2. That second statement was extremely sarcastic and rude, we all know what documentaries are, just tell us which one(s) you saw, there's no need for you to be a huge jerk about it.

3. Maybe we would if you were nice about it and convinced us exactly why we should watch it.

You tell him.:cool:

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
Well, I was only being sarcastic to Somebody, because he only responded to that post to bust my chops, because we have been debating back and forth on another thread. The sarcasm and rude behavior was only directed at him. Read his statement, and read it good, it is quite obvious he is being sarcastic to me. We have been being sarcastic to each other on the other thread, and he saw that I posted on this and so posted beneath me to heckle me.

Rude and sarcastic huh?

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-29-2005, 07:48 AM

yes sarcastic, you know you weren't sincere when you asked me that question. You were doing it to bust my chops because we are going back and forth on another site. lol

Novashannon

05-29-2005, 01:07 PM

I am truly amazed that you all loved an episode as full of holes as a sieve! Most of it made no sense whatsoever.

1) Why did Isobelle leave Lana when Jason Teague was still alive? He had not even been in danger as far as Isalana knew! Belle was supposed tow want to wipe out the Teague line, something she would definitely not have done with a presumably potent male still alive!
2) What happened to the amazing martial aarts Lana has shown in previous episodes, especially in combination with Belle?

2) Lois. She should not be in Smallville. there is now no way she would not know Superman is clark when she meets him and names him!

3) Whay is Lois even around (yeah, I know Durance and Welling have great chemistry). Lois supposedly disliked Clark. She has a cousin in Smallville. why would she impose on a family she barely knows instead of staying with her relative? Why would she even come to Smallville, a town she dismissed as boring, for the summer? It makes absolutely no sense! By the way, an OK has absolutely no rank in the military. that soldier would either have ignored Lois or put her in a jeep and sent her off to his superiors to deal with. Poor writing!
4) Why would subtle Lex act like a jerk and tip hiw hand to both Lana and Chloe?

This entire seaason has been plagues with poor writing and plot holes big enough to contain a galaxy!

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-29-2005, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Novashannon
I am truly amazed that you all loved an episode as full of holes as a sieve! Most of it made no sense whatsoever.

1) Why did Isobelle leave Lana when Jason Teague was still alive? He had not even been in danger as far as Isalana knew! Belle was supposed tow want to wipe out the Teague line, something she would definitely not have done with a presumably potent male still alive!
2) What happened to the amazing martial aarts Lana has shown in previous episodes, especially in combination with Belle?

2) Lois. She should not be in Smallville. there is now no way she would not know Superman is clark when she meets him and names him!

3) Whay is Lois even around (yeah, I know Durance and Welling have great chemistry). Lois supposedly disliked Clark. She has a cousin in Smallville. why would she impose on a family she barely knows instead of staying with her relative? Why would she even come to Smallville, a town she dismissed as boring, for the summer? It makes absolutely no sense! By the way, an OK has absolutely no rank in the military. that soldier would either have ignored Lois or put her in a jeep and sent her off to his superiors to deal with. Poor writing!
4) Why would subtle Lex act like a jerk and tip hiw hand to both Lana and Chloe?

This entire seaason has been plagues with poor writing and plot holes big enough to contain a galaxy!

GT was her main focus when it came to killing the Teague family. She is the one that condemed her, and had her burned at the stake. It wasn't actually said, but, it is my belief that GT was a witch herself, and the sole reason for Isobel to have the power to cross over into Lana's body. I know Isobel cast the spell for that to happen, but, without GT getting Lana to come to Paris that would not have happened. It was said that GT was the reason Lana made her way to Paris, they just didn't say how GT had the ability to get Lana there.

Gt surprised Lana, and before she knew it she was on the ground. Usually when Lana is kicking some major butt, it's because she got the drop on that unsuspecting party. She doesn't kick butt when they are focused on her.

Lois being in Smallville is only a problem if you are in the belief that this show is a prequel to the movies, or to the comic book. This show is not a prequel to anything, and aside from major things, the minor ones like Lois and Lex can be dealt with. Just because she meets Clark now doesn't mean she will know that he is Superman when he goes to Metropolis. If you follow the movie, or even the comics, he doesn't just give Superman to the world the second he gets into Metropolis. Most of the time, people are so fascinated by the fact that such a man exists that they don't pay attention to who just walked into town. Plus, there are probably dozens of people that come in and out of that town each day, and the sheer coincedence that the one at the Daily Planet would be Superman isn't thought about. Also, when Clark does make his way to Metropolis it's under the guise of a bumbling, mild-mannered reporter, and not as the Clark from smallville that we all know. Even if they don't take the movie road and have him absent for 12 years, it is hard to believe that someone you know could do the things that Superman does. It is also probably assumed that Superman is Superman 24/7, and that he doesn't have another life, and so there would be no need to suspect him as really being Clark Kent, atleast not right away.

Somebody Stop Me

05-29-2005, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
yes sarcastic, you know you weren't sincere when you asked me that question. You were doing it to bust my chops because we are going back and forth on another site. lol

Ah-huh. Now not only are you Mr. Knowitall, but you also read minds too.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-29-2005, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Somebody Stop Me
Ah-huh. Now not only are you Mr. Knowitall, but you also read minds too.

I do that on the weekends, it brings in a pretty penny. I don't claim to know it all, just because I don't fall down and agree with you doesn't mean I should back off of what I believe.

Somebody Stop Me

05-29-2005, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
executive and associative producers have nothing to do with it, they just fork over the money and make sure the thing is done on time, they don't pay attention to that stuff. The is the job of the producer, script supervisor, director and the writing staff. Since the director changes places as much as the writing staff, that leaves it on the Producer and the script surpervisor, and again they are more focused on deadlines and making sure that a cup that is half full in one shot is still half full in another shot. The way they see it, the show is entertainment and if it does that, anything that is lost in the storyline is expendible.

This not about agreeing with one another. I asked a question. Where is your proof of the above statement.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-29-2005, 08:08 PM

Well, the next time you watch a movie, pay attention at who the executive prodocer and associative producers are. They are the people that are from the company putting up the cash for the movie. Executive producer is from the main company, the ones like your Universal and Paramount, and the associative producers are from the smaller companies that put up and little cash just so the film makers will have that much more, hence the name "associative." The Producer is the one that makes all the cash decisions, he says what will be paid for, he handles the money given by the production companies. The executive producers are usually never found on sets unless there is a need for them to be there, they only care about whether or not the show is good, not whether there is a flashback to a previous episode bringing some subplot together. There is a nice little book by Camille Landau and Tiare White (film school veterans) entitled "What they don't teach you in film school." Very good book, only one of any number of things you can read or watch to find out about who does what exactly. Watch the next season of Project Greenlight and you will see for yourself who does what exactly.

triplet

05-31-2005, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn
. Watch the next season of Project Greenlight and you will see for yourself who does what exactly.

I've never read that book, but I don't think it's always that cut and dried... it depends on the people and may not necessarily have much to do with money, depending.

Sometimes actors get producer credits without them having prodcos behind them to put up money. A producer credit can be a lure to get someone involved, even if they don't put up money...

As for Project Greenlight, it's been canceled. No more PGL. :(

Too bad too.

This last season was highly watchable and Gulager was such a mess to begin with, his transformation into a confident director was truly amazing. That casting director should crawl back under whatever rock she crawled out from...

But that's what made it some great reality TV, but no one saw.

BTW: Part of the reason that PGL is no more is that Chris Moore left Liveplanet to persue a directing career... He was a large driving force behind the idea, Ben and Matt don't have time to run roughshod over the contest and productions like Moore did.

NeXtToLaStKrYpToNiAn

05-31-2005, 06:30 AM

I know, it was clear that it was on the rocks during that season. There were times when I was like "What the h*** is Gulager doing?!"

Yes, but what I was saying about that producers is that the Executive Producers don't make those kinds of decisions about continuity and usually are not found on set. Mainly because they are doing so many movies that they don't have time to be on set. The Executive Producer for Feasts was the guy from Dimension, the one that was always in NY, I can't remember his name. It was him and his brother, but, you never really saw his brother. The associative producers, which you don't tend to see names for in most films (you have to watch the end credits for that) would have been those other two brothers that they called on the radio talk show, who were trying to get into the business of movies....whom by the way have a ton of movies lined up for the next 2 years. Feasts isn't slated for release till June or July.

Dave, I think that was the guy's name, not quite sure.

Normal PRODUCER doesn't front money, that isn't his job, his job is to spend the money put up by the Companies (i.e. Dimension) who are represented by the Executive Producer.

The Seer

05-31-2005, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Summers
That's true for some who want to see it like that. Which its fine, but in the end its can hinder character development as a whole when the series is over, and we are already in the fourth season. What he goes through seems to be forgetton quite easily unfortunately which is a mistake in the end IMO. There are many fans who cant see SV's Clark Kent becoming Superman.

IMO We need to remember the man he will become to emphasize that he still has a long way to go. That TPTB need to focus more on his progression. He's 18 yrs. old, and still seen by many as a mere boy.

So you are saying that you must dwell on the past to develop?

Mistakes have to be brought up consistently for you to realize one moment in a show is a direct result of a situation he was in before?

How many times have you learned from a mistake and had someone point out that you are actually making a difference from the experience of the mistake you made before? It just doesn't happen.

I don't think the show needs to cover every single base of history that the show has already covered. We know about it and the characters do too. I don't understand why you think they need to dwell in the past so much in order to show character continuity.

Grand_Sophy

05-31-2005, 04:26 PM

As I was away for a week after Commencement aired, and have since read some fine reviews, it seemed superfluous for me to post here. However, maybe I will add a few comments, if just to get this thread back to topic ;) .

The great pleasure of this episode for me was that Big Things happened. There are little Significant Things happening in every episode, even if it's just Clark talking about fatherhood, or Lois explaining her father's opinion, and consequently much of her own personality, that she is the weak link in the family chain. Those types of revelations are important, and sustain the characters' development, and can be moderately satisfying, like a nutritious casserole. But once in a while we crave a feast, with the roast boar and all the side dishes, and the flames and the dancing and singing and the sense of drama. This episode had enough calories to make me feel full at the end of it. May get a little bit of indigestion from parts of it, but overall, very satisfying.

The episode was exciting right from the opening clips explaining "Previously, on Smallville..." Ambitious, confusing, exciting. Then right into the Genevieve/Lana confrontation, with a rousing fight, murder, the quick resolution of the witch storyline, and a terrified, sobbing, blood-soaked Lana. Segue to Clark's very X-Files-ish dream sequence, with its allusions to alien visitations and the merging of the three stones (in the primary Superman colours) into the single glowing crystal/meteor heading straight for his home. Great visual and visceral stuff. And we even get Shelby! Then the introduction of the digital count down, which may seem overly familiar from 24 and the Armageddon promotion of a few years back, but is undeniably effective in building tension and anticipation. I found myself yelling out more than once "Hurry up, Clark!" to the bewilderment of my mother, who was trying to nap at the time and kept waking up thinking I was calling her.

This was a great episode for the development of Lana, her usual equanimity shattered, the physical proof of her fall from grace staining her hands ("Out, out, damned spot!"), and confronting the nature of her relationship with the three significant men in her life. For Jason, it's loss and guilt. For Lex, combined suspicion and dependence. For Clark, trust and love, but separation. It's easier to like Lana when she's dirty and doomed, and her emotions are written openly on her grubby, contorted face. It took four years and a murder, but her facade finally cracked.

Lois makes me laugh, and she makes me laugh at Clark, so I tend to forgive the plot idiocies surrounding her presence in Smallville that grate on others. But even Lois's storyline was satisfying in this episode, from rounding up the loose ends with her father and sister, to addressing her college mishap and future aspirations. Lois is stubbornly and openly her own person (she's not afraid to wear bunny slippers!), and she both grounds and goads Clark, which is a better foreshadowing of their future relationship than that weird reference to her nightmare about a man in a red cape (unless somebody comes out of that spaceship wearing a cape, which would be rather cool). We know that Lois babbles when she gets nervous, which is nice continuity, and I found her expression evocative and moving when she somberly surveyed the devasted town at the end. There is definite chemistry between her and Clark. She moves and talks too fast to acknowledge it, and turns her back rather than look at him tucking in his shirt ends, but it's there.

Lex's character showed some of the many facets that make him so interesting. He will never be one dimensionally evil, and I don't know why anyone would ever want him to be. Conflicted psyches are so much more interesting. Only Lex could simultaneously want to save the damsel in distress, express his feelings for her, exploit her fear, and manipulate her. Well, I guess Lionel could too, but he's actually much more devious. Lionel can invent a fictitious "Chosen One" on the spur of the moment to deflect Genevieve away from Lex and Clark; Lionel can protect Lana from the consequences of his invention by removing Genevieve's corpse, while at the same time manipulating his son by threatening to expose her. Would he turn Lana in? I don't think so, but it's better for his purposes if Lex thinks he would. At the same time, he worries about Lex being hurt by his feelings for Lana. Delightfully convoluted.

In contrast to the Lionel/Lex dynamic, we have Jonathan and Martha as Clark's moral bedrock, shooting him minatory glances when he's rude to Lois, being terrified for his safety and yet proud and supportive of his determination to do what he can. In a touching little throw-away scene Martha reminds us that Clark's story began with a tragedy, and that this new development may have consequences beyond their own little circle when she reacts to the news of the meteor shower with a horrified "Oh my God. Not again!"

Chloe of course was almost as much fun as Lois, and much more heroic. She obviously doesn't consider Clark to be her hypothetical meteor magnet, because babbling on about it to Clark would have been cruel, and she doesn't even want to have to tell him that he's not normal, never mind being the town's primary source of death and destruction. She's actually getting pretty good at this sidekick thing, shooshing Clark off to look for Lana, realizing quickly that the kryptonite is hurting him and dragging him out of harm's way, covering for him with Lex, and of course her shining moment when she adroitly shoves Lex out of the way and gets the front row seat at Clark's light show. She's right up there with Barnacle Boy (which is high in my household) as a protective and loving conspirator.

Jason as an action villain is much more fun, if less sensible, than as a confused dupe, although I mourn the death of my theory that Lionel and Jason were in cahoots. At least this new incarnation of Jason has a lot of energy and intelligence, being the only one (other than perhaps Lionel, and he had his transformation to help him) to figure out that Clark is at the center of the mystery. On the conflicting loyalties side, he didn't betray Lana (he never told his mother she had a stone, or even that the spirit of Isobel was inhabiting her), and his main concern is his missing mother (he's trying to find Clark because he figures that will lead him to his mother). Some redeeming qualities, but not enough to save him from the Fordman curse. R.I.P. Jason.

There's been some criticism of Clark's apparent slowness in the three hours before the meteors hit. As confessed above I too was urging him to greater speed, but then I had the advantage of that digital clock ticking down the remaining time at me, and of knowing exactly who was where, doing what, and where the remaining stones were. Clark, in between superspeeding around looking for Lana and the stones and forcing himself to slowness when there were spectators around, took a little time while talking to his parents, getting the key, and in the caves, to confront the enormity and danger of what he was doing. After defying Jor-El for three years, fearing his motives and witnessing his ruthlessness, he's about to do exactly what Jor-El wants him to. He could have ended up as brainwashed Kal-El again, a tool of a conquering race. He could have died, or been so transformed he would never have recognized or cared for his loved ones again. A few minutes of reflection was not out of place.

I really liked the gravity and determination on Clark's face in the end scenes. All the actors did a great job. And all the special effects people. And the writers. Oh heck, I just really liked this episode. Things actually happened, with the promise of more things to come. I hope that Smallville really does get to use the Fortress of Solitude set from the new Superman movie next year, as rumoured. That would be a great start to what could be a great year.