Clark Kent, Dead or Alive? (Merged)

[xrayvision]

That had to be Clark's ghost talking to Chloe. I think he died.

[redkryptoniteisthebest]

You're right.

When he said, "Clark Kent is dead.", I knew something was up. Also, he wasn't acting his normal self.

[madcatlady]

Hmm...the exit was rather spectral...

[SuperJedi]

Man I need to see this again on Youtube or something, someone upload!!!

[Skaterpen357]

Interesting. That'd be really, really interesting.

[adromidon]

Is it possible that he get ressurected next season or are we going to have a season of Ghost CLark

Though his death would make sense as he died from his battle with doomsday in the comics

[kyl-el]

I'm under the impression that Clark is being controlled by that Zodish thing at the end. But maybe that's just me.

[O'Neill]

But he said he was out looking for Lois? So you mean Clarks "ghost" was out looking for Lois??

This show has crossed over to weirdville

[xrayvision]

I hope Jonathan's spirit shows him the error of his way.

[Ella]

Yep. They killed Clark Kent, Lois Lane, and Jimmy Olsen tonight (in one form or another). Niiice.

[roccanater]

Yeah. It has to be a ghost or something. At first when he turned and walked away I thought it was Bizzaro. But it must be a ghost.

[Melekith]

I don't think he is dead. He and Chloe were openly dicussing Lois' disappearance. Chloe would not have known about that if Clark hadn't of told her (we assume offscreen prior to this scene being acted).

[CKlover]

How can that be clarks ghost when chloe hugged him?

[rarebreed]

Is it possible that he get ressurected next season or are we going to have a season of Ghost CLark

Though his death would make sense as he died from his battle with doomsday in the comics

:lol::rotfl: Wonder if anyone would notice the difference?

[myankskent]

I don't care if it was Clark's ghost or not. TPTB didn't even bother to show the climax of the Doomsday/Clark fight so they lost me with this episode.

[adromidon]

Lois is not dead

[warriorrenegade]

Are you guys sure he's a ghost? To me that fade out meant that Clark Kent is walking out of Chloe's life forever and is on his "visionquest" LOL to search within himself etc...etc...etc...

[Heilige]

I don't care if it was Clark's ghost or not. TPTB didn't even bother to show the climax of the Doomsday/Clark fight so they lost me with this episode.



I was so pissed off at that pathetic excuse of a fight. :mad:

[warriorrenegade]

I don't care if it was Clark's ghost or not. TPTB didn't even bother to show the climax of the Doomsday/Clark fight so they lost me with this episode.

Tell me about it. This episode on many levels was a huge letdown and the fight is at the top of the list.:mad:

[Vergon6]

He did literally disappear. So Clark is probably dead. Hopefully regenerating in the Fortress.

[Kal-Elllllll]

Lois is not dead

figuritively

[griffolyon12]

I don't think he's dead. I personally thought his fading from the doorway was simply an artistic choice, nothing else. He could've superspeeded out and left a slight mirage behind? I don't know, I'm just wondering about the other possibilities other than he's a ghost.

[SupermanRox]

Rokk did tell him that he would definitely die. It would make sense of the way he was acting, the statement that "Clark Kent is dead", and his spectral exit. Now that I think about this part it does seem apparent that Clark is dead.

No Lois isn't dead. She grabbed the ring that Rokk gave Clark. She was transported to the future.

[itashy]

also i noticed a few things...one clark wasnt seen talking to anyone after the battle,i predict clark sacrificed himself to hold doomsday while black canary pressed the button....two i think the two times you see clark,one its olivers guilt of not being able to protect jimmy...and the two chloes thinking of what clark would say...a clarkless world with zod back? haha the father possessing the "son", im saying half season zod/half season intergang and season 10 darkseid..

[Super EJ]

Yea ok, that whole vanishing thing was just to capture the moment type thing, have u not seen it in movies!! HELLOOO!

[Niad]

oh **** after chloe asked how did you get out in time he said he didint know he died fo sho

[Lexsghost]

As lex's ghost I can say that clarks ghost isnt real.

[Poyntz]

He was acting wierd at the end. I thought it wasnt him also.

[disciples of zod]

I actually think Clark died and we saw his ghost at the end. Wow...it's going to be a long summer! =/

~H

[LoveHurts38]

So that means in S9 Lois will forget everything happen and Clark will be wearing glasses.

----- Added 43 Seconds later -----

oh **** after chloe asked how did you get out in time he said he didint know he died fo sho

It's like the 6th sense.

[dru-zod2501]

nah, I think it was nothing more than an emo special effect. Clark is still alive

[slifer151]

He's not dead, it's just used for effect. He was fading out much like he was deciding to fade out of the lives of the people close to him. Kryptonians do NOT have ghost powers :P

[Tinyeppy]

I think this was a scene to prove the death of the S1-S8 Clark <?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:country-region u2:st="on"><U1:p<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/ /><st1:country-region w:st=Kent </U1:p</u1:country-region></ST1:p</st1:country-region>metaphorically of course b/c in the comics CK is reborn. I have some hope that this will lead into something positive. A more mature “man of steal” like CK will emerge from this.
<O:p
A CK that if Lana Lang ever shows her kryptonite infected face again in the SV world she will never know this man as <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">Lois Lane</st1:address></st1:Street> will. <O:p</O:p
<O:p
I have stay positive for season 9.<O:p</O:p

[Niad]

lies yes they do :P

[xlonewolfac]

Couple things I noticed -

- Rokk said that Clark was going to die the next day when he met up with him.

- Clark was acting very, very strange at the end. I caught on to it almost immediately, and along with the conversation he has with Chloe leads me to believe he actually did die.

- I think I need to watch this episode again, but from what I remember, we clearly see Clark at the funeral for Jimmy, yet no one else saw him? Correct me if i'm wrong please.

- What was it that he mentioned to Chloe at the end about Bart and them? Sounded like him not being able to save them? If he couldn't save them, then how in the world was Oliver at Jimmy's funeral?

I'm definitely going to watching the episode over again because I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to it.

[amandaa125]

you know at first i thought the fade out effect was just used to symbolize him walking away from chloe...but i think it was his ghost.

[B_M4N]

I actually kind of agree with the thought of him being a ghost at several points he was just weird like the funeral he was off by himself and nobody seemed to notice him, he can't remember how he escaped/he couldn't save whoever he was talking about at the plant even though it was empty so who was he talking about?

[Niad]

your right xlonewolf no one saw him at the funeral when chloe asked why were you not at the funerel and how did you get out in time and he didn't know how he got out so hes dead and he will be reborn next season and lois will change time somehow haha

[kryptonhero25]

Aside from the absolute garbage that we call a "season finale," I actually somewhat liked this ending. Season after season, we have seen Clark either dying, taken away somewhere, being in some peril, etc, and I think the writers realized this and saw the need to break the mold. I like the fact that temporarily we are seeing a resolute and strong-willed Clark Kent, but I do agree with Chloe that Clark's humanity is what makes him. However, I am willing to believe in what I saw another thread that this really wasn't the real Clark but on the other hand we saw in a spoiler for this episode that Clark will be taking a new path and make a big decision so this is probably the real Clark. Who knows? Where will he go next?

[disciples of zod]

interesting post. i agree with you.

~H

[bigfanofsv24]

Couple things I noticed -

- Rokk said that Clark was going to die the next day when he met up with him.

- Clark was acting very, very strange at the end. I caught on to it almost immediately, and along with the conversation he has with Chloe leads me to believe he actually did die.

- I think I need to watch this episode again, but from what I remember, we clearly see Clark at the funeral for Jimmy, yet no one else saw him? Correct me if i'm wrong please.

I'm definitely going to watching the episode over again because I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to it.

exactly what im trying to say i mean come don't you guys think that maybe chloe or oliver or JL would have seen him and like the writers said not to long ago that clark is going to act darker in season 9 i think some people need to watch the end scene again cause i know that even though this is smallville clark is still going to die from the hands of DD you cant change what comics.

[Niad]

agreed im a huge DC comic fan so i know what the fuk is going on

[Hez]

It seems impossibly out of character to me....for him to just walk away from Chloe when she's lost everything. I don't think he's capable of turning off his heart like that, and deciding that he no longer cares about individual people. It's interesting, I'll admit....I assume they'll have it cleared up in one episode though....

[ScooterKalEl]

When he was writing his 'goodbye' letter, I was hoping he would mention Martha and Johnothan. Once Lois is rediscovered, CK will be back to normal. The CK we know is gone. He will transform into the nerdy-geek disguise we love. TW can play this well.

[kryptonhero25]

It seems impossibly out of character to me....for him to just walk away from Chloe when she's lost everything. I don't think he's capable of turning off his heart like that, and deciding that he no longer cares about individual people. It's interesting, I'll admit....I assume they'll have it cleared up in one episode though....

Yeah but think of how many times Clark has turned away from the ones he loved and turned off his heart and left because he was upset with himself and how "weak" he was by letting his human side overcome his kryptonian one. We've seen this many times.

[susangail]

It didn't seem that out of character to me. He's overwhelmed and shutting down.

[redkryptoniteisthebest]

Here, read my theory.

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127265

(I am not trying to spam, by the way, I am just posting a theory...)

[Tebow15]

he has done the shutting off in the past. I liked the fact he didn't die etc in the finale. I think he went to the fortress for his training and we get a time jump.

[JTShiro]

Yeah but think of how many times Clark has turned away from the ones he loved and turned off his heart and left because he was upset with himself and how "weak" he was by letting his human side overcome his kryptonian one. We've seen this many times.

I see your point, but as I recall he never did turn it off voluntarily without Red K which makes what happens next interesting

[rebecavaldez]

That's not something I see Clark saying. Just didn't make sense.

[kryptonhero25]

Here, read my theory.

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127265

(I am not trying to spam, by the way, I am just posting a theory...)

Really great theory. I still think the whole "ghost" thing might not be for real but I'd like that twist. You should add me as a friend if you can on here lol so we can discuss other issues because I like your line of reasoning.

[Theshadow129x]

I liked the finale but i also liked the ending. Clark's humanity is what also causes peril to begin with. He thinks like humans and he still hadnt gotten it in his head that his decisions have great consequences.

[kyl-el]

If he did die, which is very probable, I still feel extremely cheated as far witnessing the event of his death, it should have been epic. It just happened off-screen and we had to put it together ourselves and speculate. The fact that we really didn't witness it makes me wonder whether it really happened.

[plut094]

where's Martha Kent when you need her

[Theshadow129x]

Clark didnt die he just came to his senses people! gosh

[davidbrenton]

The version of Clark Kent we knew is dead....the iconic (Glasses/bumnling) Clark premieres this fall on the CW.

[Tebow15]

^^^^

Yeah that

[greatodinsbeard]

I really liked the finale it set up some cool story threads. Especially the potential for Clark. Superman 24/7?

Also maybe we will see Clark go to the future to save Lois, and tam up with more of the Legion.

Zod!!!

[erikamichelle614]

I hope I'm not right, but maybe by saying he's "dead," the show can be more about superman, excuse me, the red blue blur. haha. We'll see next season. When does that start? lol

[Tebow15]

God, I hope you are right.

[xrayvision]

your right xlonewolf no one saw him at the funeral when chloe asked why were you not at the funerel and how did you get out in time and he didn't know how he got out so hes dead and he will be reborn next season and lois will change time somehow haha

He was off in the distance at the funeral, right? Maybe he can't walk on hallowed ground.

[VicNew]

I don't know. (I'm shaking my head now) maybe you guys are right. I hope you are. I didn't agree with the ghost theory but we are forgetting ZOD has returned. Maybe that will be cool. I hope. I pray they don't do him like they did before and make Lex be Zod. Clark is just hurt and pissed at himself for letting Jimmy get killed. He'll get over it. Bring him some Lana pootang!!!! Oooops I forgot, he can't get next to it! My bad!

[Skaterpen357]

I like this. It's not even the vanish that's doing it for me. The funeral, the mysterious escape, the clearly off conversation...I think Clark's kind of in a state where he realizes he's a ghost, but doesn't...I don't know. Otherwise, the "I don't know how I got out of there" line makes no sense (barring Clark's ghost lying, but I have no idea why he would do that...).

Or maybe he is lying, and knows he's dead, and just doesn't want to burden Chloe or something. I don't know how he intends to keep this up. It's weird. The fact that he said he doesn't know how he made it out both makes and breaks this theory. Very strange.

I'm definitely looking forward to S9 now!

[Tatiana]

I'm under the impression that Clark is being controlled by that Zodish thing at the end. But maybe that's just me.


Ya I did get the same impression, didn't Tess say the orb had said the only way they could be released was if Clark killed Doomsday? maybe that was the whole plan all along, Brainiac had it all in control so Zod could be released either thru Lex or Clark killing Doomsday. I am really confused lol

[xrayvision]

I like this. It's not even the vanish that's doing it for me. The funeral, the mysterious escape, the clearly off conversation...I think Clark's kind of in a state where he realizes he's a ghost, but doesn't...I don't know. Otherwise, the "I don't know how I got out of there" line makes no sense (barring Clark's ghost lying, but I have no idea why he would do that...).

Or maybe he is lying, and knows he's dead, and just doesn't want to burden Chloe or something. I don't know how he intends to keep this up. It's weird. The fact that he said he doesn't know how he made it out both makes and breaks this theory. Very strange.

I'm definitely looking forward to S9 now!

This is the only thing that I have left that will interest me in season 9's premiere. I could care less about the JLA because I don't want this show to be turned into a JLA show. I hate what they did to Jimmy. This is the only thing I'm interested in now. I'm hoping Jonathan's spirit will have a talk with him & that the Eradicator shows up & will help resurrect him. I was really hoping to see the Eradicator being the orb, but now I doubt that will happen.

[Exedore]

You still have hope that Clark actually died and we'll see Jonathan's ghost and all that? Dude I have to say you must be channeling the real Superman's eternal optimism because I have lost ALL hope (what little I had left after Eternal and the bit they raised with the Orb last episode) after today. :( Doomsday failed to kill Clark but SV really killed my enthusiasm for this show. :|

That was not Clark's ghost. That was just Clark metaphorically killing off "Clark Kent" by cutting off all his human ties and going on some sort of soul search or something. Yet again Clark blames himself for everything that goes wrong. :/

[LuckyLois]

I know, it was Great Ceasars Ghost!:lol:

[smallvillesweetie]

I'm wondering if Clark is in fact dead. What do you guys think?

[vagrant]

So I am not sure why people keep thinking he is.

We were already told before hand that Clark would go through a sort of metaphorical death. Clark is now "dead" and is now just Kal-El's alternate personality, as opposed to the opposite.

The whole dissolve thing at the end was just meant to be symbolic of Old Clark going away.

[justh36]

i don't know..i still dont understand how they have his character going...he was acting really strange in the last few minutes....what im wondering is what does this mean...everything was so confusing....i do know that this episode was a big let down..i had a bunch of ideas for endings in my head but nothing like this...so far the only reason that im going to watch season 9 is just to see the story line

[thehenry89]

Who said clark was dead :confused:

[vagrant]

Clark is dead. Kal-El is not.

[vagrant]

Who said clark was dead :confused:

The people in the dozen's of threads about how Clark is dead.

[Forney2414]

The persona of Clark Kent is dead for the time being but Supes has to have a secret identity. He isn't superman yet so he doesn't need Clark Kent if Lois isn't there.

[xrayvision]

You still have hope that Clark actually died and we'll see Jonathan's ghost and all that? Dude I have to say you must be channeling the real Superman's eternal optimism because I have lost ALL hope (what little I had left after Eternal and the bit they raised with the Orb last episode) after today. :( Doomsday failed to kill Clark but SV really killed my enthusiasm for this show. :|

That was not Clark's ghost. That was just Clark metaphorically killing off "Clark Kent" by cutting off all his human ties and going on some sort of soul search or something. Yet again Clark blames himself for everything that goes wrong. :/

I don't think so. I think any metaphorical death was Jimmy since supposedly he wasn't the real Jimmy anyway (something that I was disgusted by).

Rokk even said that Clark will die and it happened. Clark gave Lois that letter knowing he would die. I have no doubt that Clark Kent is dead. The fight & death scene were completely lacking and was one of the worst & disappointing moments in the history of the series, but everything points to the fact that Clark is physically dead (even spiritually dead as we saw).

[vagrant]

Clark isn't dead lol.

"In his first encounter with the Justice League, shortly after breaking free from underground, Doomsday defeated the entire team of superheroes in a matter of minutes, which in turn attracted the attention of Superman.[2] Most notable is the fact that the creature fought the entire time with literally one hand tied behind his back, yet was still able to lay waste to all opposition and much of the surrounding area. The only Justice Leaguer who could even defend herself against Doomsday was Maxima. Also at that time, his naming occurred when League member Booster Gold stated how the rampage resembled "the arrival of Doomsday". The comment then subsequently reached the broadcast media and thereafter led to the creature's accepted name."

Doomsday breaks free and kills Superman later on in the future.

[Drakaun]

Come to think of it look at it this way. Rokk came to Clark in the beginning of the episode saying to send Doomsday to the future so the legion could deal with him because the timeline had been altered and Superman wasn't there anymore. Clark didn't heed any of Rokk's advice, he didn't send Doomsday to the future, he did exactly what he planned to do, which is separate Davis from Doomsday and bury him deep underground in an explosion. If this is what Clark always did then he technically failed and is probably dead. The only wild card in the whole equation is the fact that Lois left the Timeline which wouldn't have been possible unless Rokk brought back the Legion Ring. That being said it means that the only thing altered in this timeline is Lois leaving it, otherwise it still ends with no Superman in the future.

[xrayvision]

Yes he is. Clark has already died many times in this series (another break from the comic canon).

We know that Doomsday will return, though I fail to understand how a superhuman beast like him can't come back within minutes of being thrown into a hole in the ground. In the comics, Doomsday's 1st appearance was due to landing on Earth from space.

He has superstrength & can easily dig out of the Earth. It's just that Clark died as Rokk said he would. I don't see what changed to alter his destiny. He knew he would die and chose to take out Doomsday anyway.

[Dr. Blade]

Something was distinctly wrong; you could feel it in that whole end scene with Chloe. I don't know if that persona really is dead or Clark just chose to make that decision himself. Whatever it is, it's going to have to be corrected in the season 9 premiere.

[ChronX4]

I think Clark Flew out of there, somehow got into contact with the black k, seperated, so the one with no powers is roaming out there somewhere (and remembers flying) and the one with the powers is the one we saw (doesn't remember flight), and they don't know they're seperated, making it a plot point next season to get them back together so they can fight with full power whoever is the next villan. I mean notice how at the begining when he gave Bart the black k he kind of freaked out when it got near him? And the last time he came close to black k it started to react as well (Onyx).

[vagrant]

The dissolve was just symbolism to show the old human Clark being no more. Clark is now just a secret identity.

Superman only dies once. And it's by Doomsday, and that doesn't happen for many years. They had him shove Doomsday in the ground to align the mythos.

[Emissary of Justice]

LOL. This was not a ghost. It was either Clark or The Eradicator.

[KryptoKnight]

Clark, I mean Kal-EL, is off to get his training in the fortress. How? I dunno. Expect the series to kick off 2 - 3 years from where we left off.

[ChronX4]

Yes he is. Clark has already died many times in this series (another break from the comic canon).

We know that Doomsday will return, though I fail to understand how a superhuman beast like him can't come back within minutes of being thrown into a hole in the ground. In the comics, Doomsday's 1st appearance was due to landing on Earth from space.

He has superstrength & can easily dig out of the Earth. It's just that Clark died as Rokk said he would. I don't see what changed to alter his destiny. He knew he would die and chose to take out Doomsday anyway.


Well Rokk did give him the ring, which in turn caused Lois who would have been standing at the phone booth waiting for Clark if she hadn't accidently slipped it on. Maybe Lois was the reason he would have died?

[vagrant]

Yes he is. Clark has already died many times in this series (another break from the comic canon).

We know that Doomsday will return, though I fail to understand how a superhuman beast like him can't come back within minutes of being thrown into a hole in the ground. In the comics, Doomsday's 1st appearance was due to landing on Earth from space.

He has superstrength & can easily dig out of the Earth. It's just that Clark died as Rokk said he would. I don't see what changed to alter his destiny. He knew he would die and chose to take out Doomsday anyway.

Doomsday emerges from the ground. This is what happens in the comics. Period.

[nyctnafan100]

i believe clark is only dead for a lil while. clark khalel whichever knows he has to be a stronger man and not controlled by his emotions. the clark ego persona will disappear for a lil while and will return as a way to hide his identity from certain people. i do believe that jimmy dying makes clark stronger inside knowing he can't keep dictating things.

[Lilah]

At this point if its 2-3 years later in the season 9 premiere I'd love it... but where the heck is Lois after all that time....

[xrayvision]

I think Clark Flew out of there, somehow got into contact with the black k, seperated, so the one with no powers is roaming out there somewhere (and remembers flying) and the one with the powers is the one we saw (doesn't remember flight), and they don't know they're seperated, making it a plot point next season to get them back together so they can fight with full power whoever is the next villan. I mean notice how at the begining when he gave Bart the black k he kind of freaked out when it got near him? And the last time he came close to black k it started to react as well (Onyx).

I was thinking about the possibility of this. This could have happened, but I would say that the Clark Kent side of him somehow died while his Kal-El side escaped since he could fly. I could totally buy this happening and would be cool with it since it would lead to interesting things. I know his Kal-El side would never deal with the JLA, and I don't want Clark joining their missions next season, so if it would depend on a black-k split, I would be OK with it as long as it keeps the JLA off the show.

[LaraofKrypton]

Who said clark was dead :confused:

Clark did...right before he "disappeared". Don't worry, it makes no sense to anybody. Or at least it makes very little sense. :( We just have to wait until September :(:(:(:(:(:(

[vagrant]

i believe clark is only dead for a lil while. clark khalel whichever knows he has to be a stronger man and not controlled by his emotions. the clark ego persona will disappear for a lil while and will return as a way to hide his identity from certain people. i do believe that jimmy dying makes clark stronger inside knowing he can't keep dictating things.

Yes I know he is metaphorically dead.

But for some silly reason people here keep claiming he is literally dead.

[Dr. Blade]

Yeah. Seriously. I'm going to need some explanation on the Lois spectrum. Is she just going to come back and everything return to normal for her at the DP? What about Jimmy? And Clark is undergoing training to cut off his human side? I appreciate that they set it up for Superman but they did it in a completely perverse way.

[Rival X The Great]

what's up with all this ghost talk. That makes absolutely no sense. He isn't dead. What if he just supersped away.

[galatians221]

I don't think so. I think any metaphorical death was Jimmy since supposedly he wasn't the real Jimmy anyway (something that I was disgusted by).

Rokk even said that Clark will die and it happened. Clark gave Lois that letter knowing he would die. I have no doubt that Clark Kent is dead. The fight & death scene were completely lacking and was one of the worst & disappointing moments in the history of the series, but everything points to the fact that Clark is physically dead (even spiritually dead as we saw).

X: I have to disagree with you. Clark changed clothes. I don't see ghosts getting dressed up to disappear. Clark physically embraced Chloe. I believe it was either him being transported into the future somehow or just artistic license to symbolize his metaphorical death.

[xrayvision]

Doomsday emerges from the ground. This is what happens in the comics. Period.

In the comics, Doomsday ended underground because the Radiant killed him on Calaton & his body broke free not long after crashing into the Earth. He didn't remain dormant in the Earth for years like Smallville is setting it up to be.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

what's up with all this ghost talk. That makes absolutely no sense. He isn't dead. What if he just supersped away.

From a hole in the ground? He would need to fly. I agree with ChronX4 but that his Clark side died while his Kal-El side seperated because of the black-k.

[malft]

What if Lois learns the truth in the future? I know they would return her 5 minutes before she left so she wouldn't learn anything. Let's say the Legion doesn't know that Lois has seen the events of her life with Clark or his time as Superman, and they send her back with a Lei and a Mai Tai. Would Lois make Clark into Superman as we've seen in other series? That could make an interesting story arc.

[galatians221]

In the comics, Doomsday ended underground because the Radiant killed him on Calaton & his body broke free not long after crashing into the Earth. He didn't remain dormant in the Earth for years like Smallville is setting it up to be.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----



From a hole in the ground? He would need to fly. I agree with ChronX4 but that his Clark side died while his Kal-El side seperated because of the black-k.

Now that makes sense. He does still have memories of CK.

[Unsound]

I have suspicions that he might be. Rokk told him he was going to die, and he didn't send Doomsday to the future with the Legion ring so I don't see how that could change. Nobody seemed to really see him at the funeral. He told Chloe that he didn't know how he survived the explosion. And the fact that he just kind of disappeared at the end. Maybe that part was supposed to be symbolic, but I have a feeling he died. Of course we won't really find out until next season!

[FozzyRock]

I think that Clark Kent is dead for now but that Kal-El lives on, Rokk told Clark that the day after was gonna be the day he died, he didn't say anything about Kal-El.

[bigvillir001]

Yeah. Seriously. I'm going to need some explanation on the Lois spectrum. Is she just going to come back and everything return to normal for her at the DP? What about Jimmy? And Clark is undergoing training to cut off his human side? I appreciate that they set it up for Superman but they did it in a completely perverse way.

i agree but they need to factor lois unless she has seen all this and knows a about in some way and she comes to back to help blance things out

[xrayvision]

Now that makes sense. He does still have memories of CK.

It's the only thing I can hold on to after such a horrificly bad finale.

[KryptoKnight]

Clark is not dead, he lives to become Space Ghost

[Forney2414]

What if Lois learns the truth in the future? I know they would return her 5 minutes before she left so she wouldn't learn anything. Let's say the Legion doesn't know that Lois has seen the events of her life with Clark or his time as Superman, and they send her back with a Lei and a Mai Tai. Would Lois make Clark into Superman as we've seen in other series? That could make an interesting story arc.


He is ALWAYS saving her. And she seems to be able to pick any lock in the city. :D

[bluewolv1970]

LOL. This was not a ghost. It was either Clark or The Eradicator.

agree you know I think it will be the eradicator - its not clark as he did not even remember how he survived and it makes sense as the smallville version of the death of superman remember in the comic there were the impostor supermen including the eradicator

[Wilde8]

I think that is the Eradicator. Then they could do a small death of Superman arc.

[lm1212]

Clark being dead is lame. Superman, or the Red Blue Blur cannot sit at the Daily Planet. :rolleyes:

[xrayvision]

agree you know I think it will be the eradicator - its not clark as he did not even remember how he survived and it makes sense as the smallville version of the death of superman remember in the comic there were the impostor supermen including the eradicator

I want to think it's the Eradicator, but the Clark we saw did have memories of what happened, and after this episode, I'm pretty much convinced we'll never ever see the Eradicator on this show as I have wanted to see him for 4 seasons straight. The Eradicator should have been shown as a device before the Clark-Doomsday "showdown" like it was long established before the legendary fight in the comics.

Having it appear now out of nowhere would be weird. I thought the orb would have been revealed to be the Eradicator after Injustice. It was not really as round as the orb in the comics, but was egg shaped before a body was created for it to inhabit.

What we know is that Rokk told Clark he would die, and I think at least part of him (after a black-k seperation) did and what we saw was either his ghost or a lower-energy form of the side of Clark that died (since both Clark & Kal-El sides can't have souls).

[Emissary of Justice]

He didn't have memories of what happened and stated so, repeatedly. We've already seen what happens when Clark and Kal-El seperate. It wasn't that. The Eradicator was also a darker version of Supes so this does make sense. Zod will likely take him out before realizing it's not the real Kal-El followed by Clark's triumphant return.

[neoblackdragon]

The jokers aside(the ones saying its a ghost). Clark did not die in the fight with doomsday. He was talking weird to Chloe because he was drumroll please?

"Walking away from his life as Clark Kent and embracing the other side of himself"
How can you tell that to someone you care about that your walking out of their life and not be different when saying it?

The vanishing was simply for the mood. Did you think Chloe and Clark were going slo mo for the hell of it?

[ChronX4]

I was thinking about the possibility of this. This could have happened, but I would say that the Clark Kent side of him somehow died while his Kal-El side escaped since he could fly. I could totally buy this happening and would be cool with it since it would lead to interesting things. I know his Kal-El side would never deal with the JLA, and I don't want Clark joining their missions next season, so if it would depend on a black-k split, I would be OK with it as long as it keeps the JLA off the show.

Well, what if he didn't die?
I mean, never got physically seperated, the first time Clark was exposed the black k as Kal-El, he only had a fight with himself, what if that happened but this time no one "won", and it ended in a tie? Making him keep his memories but not able to recall how he got out of the hole, while being mostly his Kal-El persona mixed in with Clark.

[xrayvision]

The Eradicator was also a darker version of Supes so this does make sense. Zod will likely take him out before realizing it's not the real Kal-El followed by Clark's triumphant return.

Well, yeah as the Last Son of Krypton in the comics, he was. But his origins are totally different. The Eradicator didn't have an emotional connection to humans. He wouldn't waste his time with Chloe. In the comics, he wanted to simply replace Superman as a hero who stopped evil no matter what the cost (darker like you said).

I would love to see him, but I gave up on my hopes after this episode.

[SmallvilleStud]

Clark isn't dead! We probolay wont know what he meant until S9

[xrayvision]

Well, what if he didn't die?
I mean, never got physically seperated, the first time Clark was exposed the black k as Kal-El, he only had a fight with himself, what if that happened but this time no one "won", and it ended in a tie? Making him keep his memories but not able to recall how he got out of the hole, while being mostly his Kal-El persona mixed in with Clark.

Yeah, but last time the 2 never fully seperated either. There was a partial seperation that never went all the way.

Even if there was a seperation, he would still keep his memories. It would not be until the 2 become 1 again that he would lose his memories, just like he did in Crusade & Lex did in Onyx because like Lex said, they were 2 seperate beings and 1 brain couldn't keep 2 different sets of memories/accounts of what happened at the exact same moment in time.

The fading isn't the only thing making me think he's dead (at least some part of him). The fact that Rokk said it would happen is another huge piece of evidence that gives me my opinion.

But what you said could have happened. Truthfully, I doubt black-k will end up being involved.

What I did hear were rumors that Doomsday will be back in season 9 being played by Matt Morgan (of TNA Wrestling) so this makes me think that Clark really is dead and once whoever raises him from the hole in the ground that he's in, they will not only resurrect him but Doomsday as well, making this rumor come true.

[bigvillir001]

the metaphical death remember sorry bad spelling clark kent he goes to train

[xrayvision]

Clark isn't dead! We probolay wont know what he meant until S9

I respect your opinion, but I think he is. Why would Rokk tell him he was going to die if he wouldn't? Rokk didn't interfere with anything after telling him, so his knowledge of Clark's death and the events that took place causing it would have remained unchanged since he told Clark nothing else that would help him.

----- Added 56 Seconds later -----

the meaphical death remember sorry bad spelling

I think that Jimmy's death was this supposed metaphorical death since he supposedly was never Jimmy to begin with.

[Emissary of Justice]

Well, yeah as the Last Son of Krypton in the comics, he was. But his origins are totally different. The Eradicator didn't have an emotional connection to humans. He wouldn't waste his time with Chloe. In the comics, he wanted to simply replace Superman as a hero who stopped evil no matter what the cost (darker like you said).

I would love to see him, but I gave up on my hopes after this episode.Pretty much NOTHING on this show is like the comics.

Entering Metropolis without glasses, Clark being such an idiot, Clark having so many issues making the transition to Superman, Chloe's existence, Lana's original personality going to Chloe, Martha becoming a U.S. Senator, Lois meeting Clark pre-Daily Planet, Fake Jimmy, Clark working at the Daily Planet before Jimmy, never finishing college, Chloe guiding the Justice League, Zod appearing pre-Superman, Doomsday appearing pre-Superman, The JLA formation, Oliver killing Lex, Bart being the first Flash, Mr. Mxyzptlk, Bizzaro, etc.

Why would The Eradicator be an exception?

[xrayvision]

I know. :(

[vikingjedi]

I was just wondering

What if everybody is dead except for Chloe and Lois? Clark and the JL died in the explosion. Lois is off in the future, so basically Chloe is completely alone now. Thats why Clark's spirit visited her.

[ChronX4]

Yeah, but last time the 2 never fully seperated either. There was a partial seperation that never went all the way.

Even if there was a seperation, he would still keep his memories. It would not be until the 2 become 1 again that he would lose his memories, just like he did in Crusade & Lex did in Onyx because like Lex said, they were 2 seperate beings and 1 brain couldn't keep 2 different sets of memories/accounts of what happened at the exact same moment in time.

The fading isn't the only thing making me think he's dead (at least some part of him). The fact that Rokk said it would happen is another huge piece of evidence that gives me my opinion.

But what you said could have happened. Truthfully, I doubt black-k will end up being involved.

What I did hear were rumors that Doomsday will be back in season 9 being played by Matt Morgan (of TNA Wrestling) so this makes me think that Clark really is dead and once whoever raises him from the hole in the ground that he's in, they will not only resurrect him but Doomsday as well, making this rumor come true.

It's a Luthor property, I expect them to pull the black k thing out of no where. :lol:

Yeah, I've never been that great at speculation, but maybe the fact that Lois ended up going forward in time by accident stopped her from being at the phone booth, which somehow would have lead to Clark dying, I mean he was there and they even made a point to show the phone booth. Rokk did go back in time due to Clark not being in the future and gave him the ring, changing things.

[xrayvision]

It's a Luthor property, I expect them to pull the black k thing out of no where. :lol:

Yeah, I've never been that great at speculation, but maybe the fact that Lois ended up going forward in time by accident stopped her from being at the phone booth, which somehow would have lead to Clark dying, I mean he was there and they even made a point to show the phone booth. Rokk did go back in time due to Clark not being in the future and gave him the ring, changing things.

You could be right. I really wonder what Lois is doing. I think you're right and she is in the 31st century. Wow, I don't even wanna begin speculating what stuff she's finding out there. That is not good for the timeline and all the damage it could do. She has to go back & prevent herself from getting the ring to set things right.

----- Added 45 Seconds later -----

I was just wondering

What if everybody is dead except for Chloe and Lois? Clark and the JL died in the explosion. Lois is off in the future, so basically Chloe is completely alone now. Thats why Clark's spirit visited her.

Weren't the JLA members at the funeral?

[vikingjedi]

You could be right. I really wonder what Lois is doing. I think you're right and she is in the 31st century. Wow, I don't even wanna begin speculating what stuff she's finding out there. That is not good for the timeline and all the damage it could do. She has to go back & prevent herself from getting the ring to set things right.

----- Added 45 Seconds later -----



Weren't the JLA members at the funeral?

Im thinking they were spirits too like Clark was. I don't remember Chloe interacting with any of them. Im not sure, this episode is really confusing :lol:

[AndiGirl]

I honestly dont think Clark is dead....other then emotionally. :\
He has been traumatized over and over again by his connections to humanity, so he has decided to cut them off.

As for him disappearing...I just thought that was a special effect for dramatic affect. To symbolize Clark Kent disappearing.

Who knows, it could be the eradicator....but as this point, I think Superman is just severly broken. :(

[scifigirl]

I don't think that Clark is really (as is physically) dead. His, or rather his innocence, idealism and optimism and faith in humanity, was the metaphorical death.

[Arista 07]

Clark Kent died metaphorically just as PS said he would. There's no ghost or future replacement. Clark was just being melodramatic.

[blooms_lady]

How can that be clarks ghost when chloe hugged him?


ghosts can be hugged too :]..lol

[Basroil]

How can that be clarks ghost when chloe hugged him?

Do you honestly think Chloe is in enough of a right mind to know what is going on around her. Seriously She wins the prize for worst year ever.

[xrayvision]

I honestly dont think Clark is dead....other then emotionally. :\
He has been traumatized over and over again by his connections to humanity, so he has decided to cut them off.

As for him disappearing...I just thought that was a special effect for dramatic affect. To symbolize Clark Kent disappearing.

Who knows, it could be the eradicator....but as this point, I think Superman is just severly broken. :(

It's just weird because they never used an effect like that. I don't think it was the Eradicator, unless it/he appears without any prior development (which has happened, so you really can't tell).

Given what Rokk said about his upcoming death, I think Clark would need to have died in order to act like that. Otherwise, I think he would have been very sad about Jimmy like he was in the past and not taken it to a new level of darkness. Clark was in a way acting like Brandon Lee's character in The Crow, but in a somewhat different manner--not seeking revenge, but like a lost soul who feels totally betrayed.

[rubendodge]

I seriously dought clark was a spirit for one even though noone noticed him at the funeral Clhoe could see him and was able to hug him. Secondly even if somethign had happened to him he can't truly die because they have a season 9 unless it gets canceled. So my final conlusion is they did a horrible job on this episode and tried their best to confuse people so all they think about is this show lol. Clark I believe just came to the truth that not everyone can be saved and that he needs to be able to work past his emotions so he can focus on what kind of hero he should be. So far till recently he was only a local superheroe as time goes on he appears to be working farther and farther away in saving the world. And lastly if you noticed something else he had all the memories of clark and another thing at the funeral even if they didnt see himy ou have to remember he has super speed and he was also kind of alittle far away. And they wernt even looking his way(oliver was) but he was crying aswell so. Okay now if you notice something as soon as he was about to explain what happened in the tunnel he changed the story to "I dont know" when he started to explain what happened. He says he didnt have time to save anyone but the other league members are alive so I believe he lied to her on purpose. Something went on down there he doesn't want to let her know. Also he knows Loius is missing and Chloe knows shes missing already so someone must have told her before hand. Clark is admitting his mistake and owning up to it he should have killed Davis when he had the chance. Clark wants Chloe to move on like he is and to basicly run from her emotions. Now of course I could be wrong she mentioned that oliver,dyna,and bart all dissapeared and she says that they need to look for them. Now lastly my last speculation would be that they are all 4 dead but the spoiler says only 1 character would die (which actually 2 died) so I say that maybe the funeral and all of that is some kind of dream lol IDK. That last one is very out there but its an idea.

[xrayvision]

ghosts can be hugged too :]..lol

I have seen shows where ghosts have moments where they can be physically touched.

[Luthor5339]

Clark’s not a ghost. He’s just going through a really tough time right now. He’s starting to question who he is.

As an international adoptee, a child of two worlds, I’ve also been going through a difficult identity crises and wondering if everything would be better if I stopped trying to act like I belong and just accept my “alien side” – my birth right.

So, why does Clark seem different? We’ve always seen him question this side of himself and now he’s at tipping point more than ever before, basically he feels it’s safer to truly accept the birth side than human side, which is really a confusing question and does reflect in how you act on things. Recently I made myself promise to recognize and hold strong to this otherness, to not forget that I am different and to stop pretending, that’s what Clark’s also done, I’m not sure if he’s right or wrong. I’m starting to wonder if it might be easier… so nope, not a ghost – just giving up trying to fit in. The writers even hinted as much….

Next season’s going to be epic, the battle of identity being of two worlds has a lot of conflicts, trust me… Hopefully it ends in flying…

[Darren5000]

DId they just kill off next season? I thought we were having a season 9, what's up with offing your 3 characters like that, and did Clark really die? Man, I hope You Tube puts something up, why did I miss that?

[xrayvision]

I seriously dought clark was a spirit for one even though noone noticed him at the funeral Clhoe could see him and was able to hug him. Secondly even if somethign had happened to him he can't truly die because they have a season 9 unless it gets canceled. So my final conlusion is they did a horrible job on this episode and tried their best to confuse people so all they think about is this show lol. Clark I believe just came to the truth that not everyone can be saved and that he needs to be able to work past his emotions so he can focus on what kind of hero he should be. So far till recently he was only a local superheroe as time goes on he appears to be working farther and farther away in saving the world. And lastly if you noticed something else he had all the memories of clark and another thing at the funeral even if they didnt see himy ou have to remember he has super speed and he was also kind of alittle far away. And they wernt even looking his way(oliver was) but he was crying aswell so. Okay now if you notice something as soon as he was about to explain what happened in the tunnel he changed the story to "I dont know" when he started to explain what happened. He says he didnt have time to save anyone but the other league members are alive so I believe he lied to her on purpose. Something went on down there he doesn't want to let her know. Also he knows Loius is missing and Chloe knows shes missing already so someone must have told her before hand. Clark is admitting his mistake and owning up to it he should have killed Davis when he had the chance. Clark wants Chloe to move on like he is and to basicly run from her emotions. Now of course I could be wrong she mentioned that oliver,dyna,and bart all dissapeared and she says that they need to look for them. Now lastly my last speculation would be that they are all 4 dead but the spoiler says only 1 character would die (which actually 2 died) so I say that maybe the funeral and all of that is some kind of dream lol IDK. That last one is very out there but its an idea.

Well, in the comics he did die, though he was already Superman. But that may not mean anything since this show does things so differently. In the comics, his spirit was seen wandering around after his death. This could easily have been an homage to that. But in the comics, his spirit didn't have the bleak outlook on humans he was seen to have here.

To me, he resembled the spirit of Clark who had been killed & who believed he failed & believed his failure was because he didn't see the darkness in humans in time. For him to become Superman, he will have to recognize the darkness, but believe he can help them overcome the darkness, because Superman's #1 reason for saving humans is because he thinks they deserve to be saved and the whatever good there is in them is worth saving since they can do great things with that good. Clark in this episode was beyond seeing past his emotions at the end. He was in very bad territory. He was in an anti-Superman frame of mind.

Just because he's dead doesn't mean he can't return from death like he did in the comics, where Jonathan (who was alive) helped bring his soul back to his body and the Eradicator then renergized him once Superman returned.

[Supsfan]

I don't think that Clark is really (as is physically) dead. His, or rather his innocence, idealism and optimism and faith in humanity, was the metaphorical death.

Have you been watching this show for the past 8 seasons, Clark has always been that way :P

If it was the Ghost of Clark though, maybe Chloe is the Ghost Whisperer

[rubendodge]

Very true dude I may not of read the comics but that does seem to fill alot of the holes if you do think of it that way.

[xrayvision]

Have you been watching this show for the past 8 seasons, Clark has always been that way :P

If it was the Ghost of Clark though, maybe Chloe is the Ghost Whisperer

Supsfan,

do you agree with me that Jimmy could have been this "metaphorical death"? It could mean that he was metaphorically Jimmy Olsen since he turned out not to be the real one (which infuriates me).

[Supsfan]

Supsfan,

do you agree with me that Jimmy could have been this "metaphorical death"? It could mean that he was metaphorically Jimmy Olsen since he turned out not to be the real one (which infuriates me).

To be perfectly honest I have no clue what they mean by metaphorical death. I assume Jimmy's death = death death, the metaphorical has something to do with Clark but I have no clue what, although I guess you can be right

[xrayvision]

DId they just kill off next season? I thought we were having a season 9, what's up with offing your 3 characters like that, and did Clark really die? Man, I hope You Tube puts something up, why did I miss that?

Well, Clark died in Odyssey, Void & Hidden and it didn't end the show.

Having Clark die and be a walking spirit would somewhat be like the comics, even though the "fight" & the buildup were not even 1/10000000000th of what it was in the comics.

[xrayvision]

Tell me about it. This episode on many levels was a huge letdown and the fight is at the top of the list.:mad:

This was worse than Arctic. This was without question the worst finale in the history of the show. It was a letdown and set the show in a direction that will lose a lot more remaining interest.

[Last Duchess]

I think It may have been Clark's ghost bec.
1- of the way he walked out the door (or could symbollically be walking out of Chloe's life)
2- when she asked him what happened with Doomsday and how he survived, he couldn't find an answer to that.
3- Rokk told Clark at the beginning that he was going to die the next day "Tmorrow is the day u die", so wasn't he supposed to die, or was it a symbolic death?
4- he stood away from the rest in Jimmy's funeral. If he was standing among them, u would find JL staring at him, Chloe hugging him and so on, but they wanted that to remain a kind of a puzzle, is he dead or not? he was meant to stand away from them, to make us think of the possibility that he does not want to be seen by anyone (if he's alive) or he can't be seen (except by Chloe who's in a shock) bec. he's really dead.

[Kschreck]

This was worse than Arctic. This was without question the worst finale in the history of the show. It was a letdown and set the show in a direction that will lose a lot more remaining interest.


The plot that is lining up for next season sounds really really boring. The Zod thing was already done and I don't even want to see him back since the budget won't allow for anything interesting with him anyways and now Clark is also emo... UGH!

[Joe Kahn]

I thought Oliver saw Clark at Jimmy/Henry's funeral. Also, if he was a ghost, how was Chloe able to hug him?

[anewbie]

I was trying to find the conversation at the end when Chloe asked Clark how he survived the blast or something and he didn't know how. Can't find the whole scene but could it be this is a different Clark Kent? I made a similar post to a different thread but isn't it one of Clark's trademark is to spread ashes to the people who dies in Smallville, at least he knew anyway?.. He didn't do that to Jimmy's...

[Kal-ed]

Arent people reading too much into this, he disapeared but isnt it a quite common, cliché I might add, technique used in lots and lots of films of someone walking away from someone else??

Although now that I think about it, when Chloe asked him how he got out, he gave a very vague answer, something about the answer didnt feel right, either he did really die and he´s someplace else regenerating (maybe this was the Eradicator) or maybe Lois made it to the future, told future Clark what was going on and he came and got present Clark out of that bind that that´s why he couldnt explain how he got out.

Although this would be the methaphorical death that had been mentioned.

[xrayvision]

There was no future Clark since he died here. I don't get why Rokk's warning is being ignored.

Also, don't rush to judgement that this is the metaphorical death. If Jimmy Olsen's entire character was a metaphor and that he wasn't the real Jimmy, then his death could have been a metaphor, even though it was real.

[Fugoukakusha]

I think Clark is in-between, not quite alive not quite dead (hibernation quite like the movie just without his robot and his fortress). Let's pretend for a moment that he was hurt in that explosion (though I can't fathom how considering he's supposed to be invulnerable unless there's tons of kryptonite lying around in that area). DD is for sure dead at the moment. Remember, he only gets stronger as he comes back to life. So as of right now DD is dead but will resurface later on and be immune to whatever that killed him. From the funeral scene, I'm also guessing that the JLA also thought of him dead. Oliver shed a tear :p. As far as I know, he and Jimmy only had one scene where they got to be friends but I don't think they became quite close for him to actually cry for him lol. I know that sounded mean but it's the way I see it. While he was on Jimmy's funeral, he's also grieving for Clark's death and maybe a little bit of Lois' (but not sure about that). As far as the last scene with Chloe, I have an inkling that this just might be a conscience on Chloe's part. She thinks he's dead and deep down she feels so guilty about everything that her mind just imagined Clark being there and talking to him again. I mean, why would she say that the JLA disappeared? Unless she meant the group disbanded but then she said to Clark "It's up to them to bring them back home."
When Clark disappeared like that, she didn't react any differently. It's like a common occurence to her for Clark to be disappearing like that.

[anewbie]

Chloe used the word "disappeared" pertaining to JLA...okay, I maybe stretching too much here but what if Chloe has gone mental and seeing things? (that's probably stupid huh? or not?)

[redeem147]

I woke up this morning and realized what I'd seen. Clark is dead - that's why Oliver cried. That's why other people didn't see him at the funeral. That's why he spoke to Chloe and disappeared (she didn't need the pain of grieving for another person she loved).

The things Clark said to her are consistent with Superman's attitude when Pa Kent found him between worlds in the comics.

[xrayvision]

I woke up this morning and realized what I'd seen. Clark is dead - that's why Oliver cried. That's why other people didn't see him at the funeral. That's why he spoke to Chloe and disappeared (she didn't need the pain of grieving for another person she loved).

The things Clark said to her are consistent with Superman's attitude when Pa Kent found him between worlds in the comics.

This is what I've been saying & almost everyone is disagreeing. Clark died like Rokk said he would. It sucks that we didn't get to see it happen onscreen, but I guess they really couldn't show him dying when he was trapped underground in a pitch black place. It's not hard to realize that he & Doomsday beat each other to death underground where the sun couldn't re-energize him (though it happened at night). To me, it was a copout, and if Doomsday doesn't bust out after a few days, it's total BS. Doomsday came back to life in less than a week in the comics IIRC. But by the time he did, the Cyborg Superman had already hurled his body into space.

I guarantee they will have Chloe be the one who guides him back to his body rather than getting John Schneider back for an episode to guide him back and crown him Superman.

This entire episode was a slap to the face. They showed us Clark dying in Odyssey when he didn't even have to die but failed to show us how he died here, which is what everyone wanted to see.

[rajman]

^ spot on, dude

[galatians221]

Here, read my theory.

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127265

(I am not trying to spam, by the way, I am just posting a theory...)

I don't know. Why would he bother to go change clothes? I mean he was in dressy clothes appropriate for a funeral. He just stayed at a distance. He's distraught for sure and I also struggle with how he could just say goodbye to Chloe and walk away. XRayvision may have it right in that black K separated Kal El from CK (there is no such thing as "CK" it's just another name for Kal El) but I don't get what is actually separating. Can pure Kryptonians vanish into mid air?

[Emissary of Justice]

Arent people reading too much into this, he disapeared but isnt it a quite common, cliché I might add, technique used in lots and lots of films of someone walking away from someone else?Hey, this is Smallville! Don't be bringin' all your fancy, common sense, logic into it!

[xrayvision]

I don't know. Why would he bother to go change clothes? I mean he was in dressy clothes appropriate for a funeral. He just stayed at a distance. He's distraught for sure and I also struggle with how he could just say goodbye to Chloe and walk away. XRayvision may have it right in that black K separated Kal El from CK (there is no such thing as "CK" it's just another name for Kal El) but I don't get what is actually separating. Can pure Kryptonians vanish into mid air?

It would align with the comics since Superman wandered the Earth as a spirit after his death. But then again, they're very selective about what they want to follow & what they don't, so who knows for sure.

[patrese]

This is what I've been saying & almost everyone is disagreeing. Clark died like Rokk said he would. It sucks that we didn't get to see it happen onscreen, but I guess they really couldn't show him dying when he was trapped underground in a pitch black place. It's not hard to realize that he & Doomsday beat each other to death underground where the sun couldn't re-energize him (though it happened at night). To me, it was a copout, and if Doomsday doesn't bust out after a few days, it's total BS. Doomsday came back to life in less than a week in the comics IIRC. But by the time he did, the Cyborg Superman had already hurled his body into space.

I guarantee they will have Chloe be the one who guides him back to his body rather than getting John Schneider back for an episode to guide him back and crown him Superman.

This entire episode was a slap to the face. They showed us Clark dying in Odyssey
when he didn't even have to die but failed to show us how he died here, which is what everyone wanted to see.

maybe that is what they will show in the premiere. all the details of the fight. they were looking for someone else to play doomsday in S9.

[xrayvision]

maybe that is what they will show in the premiere. all the details of the fight. they were looking for someone else to play doomsday in S9.

I heard about that (that Matt Morgan from TNA is supposed to play him). I don't think they will show the details. I think when Clark's body is raised from the hole, because I have no doubt he's lying dead in there with Doomsday, that Doomsday will rise as well and they will have round 2. After the tremendous disappointment this episode was, I'm not getting my hopes high. After all, that may just be a rumor.

[adromidon]

This is what I've been saying & almost everyone is disagreeing. Clark died like Rokk said he would. It sucks that we didn't get to see it happen onscreen, but I guess they really couldn't show him dying when he was trapped underground in a pitch black place. It's not hard to realize that he & Doomsday beat each other to death underground where the sun couldn't re-energize him (though it happened at night). To me, it was a copout, and if Doomsday doesn't bust out after a few days, it's total BS. Doomsday came back to life in less than a week in the comics IIRC. But by the time he did, the Cyborg Superman had already hurled his body into space.

I guarantee they will have Chloe be the one who guides him back to his body rather than getting John Schneider back for an episode to guide him back and crown him Superman.

This entire episode was a slap to the face. They showed us Clark dying in Odyssey when he didn't even have to die but failed to show us how he died here, which is what everyone wanted to see.
Agreed but a point in fact is the reason Superman can still be invicible at night is that the ultra violet rays fromt he sun can and do penetrate the earths atmosphere at night as well as day just not as abundantly which is why he could heal when Jimmy took the Green K arrow out of his back


On that note I would be mighty pissed at Oliver for that if I was Clark

[xrayvision]

Yeah. But he wouldn't need the sun to heal from his wounds because he still has stored energy that he can use to do that (which apparently is blocked from being used when kryptonite is around).

I was glad when I saw the JLA betrayal of him because I thought he would throw them out of his life & we wouldn't have to see them next season. I was also happy that Jimmy is the one who helped him. Boy, the U-turns they made on those 2 aspects by killing Jimmy and debuting that JLA Watchtower HQ.

[anewbie]

I woke up this morning and realized what I'd seen. Clark is dead - that's why Oliver cried. That's why other people didn't see him at the funeral. That's why he spoke to Chloe and disappeared (she didn't need the pain of grieving for another person she loved).

The things Clark said to her are consistent with Superman's attitude when Pa Kent found him between worlds in the comics.

If Clark died then that means there were 3 deaths not 2 right?.. Jimmy, Davis and Clark....

[morphs]

I think that he's dead. I know that the Smallville universe doesn't really follow the Superman mythos but I don't think they'd change Clark dying because it would be too much. I think that they knew that everyone knew Clark was going to die at the end of this season once they found out Doomsday was going to be the main villian for this season so they're trying to trick people a bit.

[stapler]

If that was Clark's ghost at the end, how was Chloe able to hug him? Arent ghosts untouchable? The last scene is probably the only scene which came close to being a cliffhanger.

[xrayvision]

If Clark died then that means there were 3 deaths not 2 right?.. Jimmy, Davis and Clark....

Well, unless Davis doesn't count since he's supposedly becoming Zod.

Or Jimmy's death was metaphorical since he supposedly was never Jimmy Olsen to begin with.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

If that was Clark's ghost at the end, how was Chloe able to hug him? Arent ghosts untouchable? The last scene is probably the only scene which came close to being a cliffhanger.

I've seen ghosts be hugged in shows. I think Mary Winchester hugged Sam & Dean in the Supernatural episode Home. Besides, a ghost hugging someone would make more sense than all the crap we got in this episode.

[cygnusx1]

after watching it again , i still can't make up my mind. on the one hand, what makes me think that was him at the funeral was he was so guilt ridden he couldn't bare to see the coffin thinking it was his fault jimmy is dead. on the other hand, the way he cold shouldered chloe and gave up on finding lois so quick makes me wonder if it is bizarro or someone else.

[All about Clark]

I think Clark is very much alive and is just messed up over losing Jimmy. Messed up that his actions to save Davis resulted in losing both Davis and Jimmy. Clark's desire to save Davis came at too high a price for Clark and he's bowing out so to speak. I think he heads to the fortress for some alone time until Chloe collects him to face the Zod problem. I did like that Jor-el message to Clark all along was to not rely on his feelings and his father proved to be correct and Clark now gets it. So I liked this story aspect.

[Canary]

I think Clark is very much alive and is just messed up over losing Jimmy. Messed up that his actions to save Davis resulted in losing both Davis and Jimmy. Clark's desire to save Davis came at too high a price for Clark and he's bowing out so to speak. I think he heads to the fortress for some alone time until Chloe collects him to face the Zod problem. I did like that Jor-el message to Clark all along was to not rely on his feelings and his father proved to be correct and Clark now gets it. So I liked this story aspect.


But Like, How did he vanish thoe ? http://img.imeem.com/img/render_bg/resources/versioned/1/graphics/smilies/smiley-confused.png?bgcolor=FFFFFF

[Lobby4Chloe]

Man, if I were Chloe, I'd be screaming and hitting him.

[xrayvision]

I think Clark is very much alive and is just messed up over losing Jimmy. Messed up that his actions to save Davis resulted in losing both Davis and Jimmy. Clark's desire to save Davis came at too high a price for Clark and he's bowing out so to speak. I think he heads to the fortress for some alone time until Chloe collects him to face the Zod problem. I did like that Jor-el message to Clark all along was to not rely on his feelings and his father proved to be correct and Clark now gets it. So I liked this story aspect.

I still think he's dead, but I understand what you're saying. I think they could have proven Jor-El being right in a much better way though. To me, the ideal way would have been to have him die in battle with Doomsday (which I'm saying is what happened in this episode like Rokk said it would even though we didn't see it) without Jimmy or any core characters dying, but then to have him wander around as a ghost (which happens in the comics mythos) and see other people dying & suffering and him no longer being able to help them since he's dead. Then he would come to the conclusion that Jor-El was right and the way to truly help humans was to keep himself at a distance & not consider himself as human and not behave like one.

Instead, Clark not only thinks Jor-El is right, but he believes that humans are evil now. He believes more in the evil within them than in the good, and this is a 180 degree shift from what Superman is all about. They could have led him to the proper conclusion he should have arrived to (that humans are good & worth saving but he needs to keep space between himself & them), but instead they led him to a very dark one and killed off a core Superman character at the same time.

[All about Clark]

^I don't believe that Clark thinks humans are evil. That is not what that was about. Clark feels very closely to the ones he loves and care about. Clark has lost alot of people over the years. And he's just realizing that sh!t happens and it hurts him to care so much for others and it sometimes leads him to decisions that are not the best. That is what I got out of it.


But Like, How did he vanish thoe ? http://img.imeem.com/img/render_bg/resources/versioned/1/graphics/smilies/smiley-confused.png?bgcolor=FFFFFF

That was just a play on the lighting to confuse you.

[xrayvision]

He specifically mentioned how it was the worst in humans that was the real problem. I tend to think that Clark will become very dark next season.

And I don't think it was any play on lighting. If they're serious about aligning the show to the mythos, then they would have Clark be dead and have his spirit wandering around like in the comics. Rokk's warning to him wasn't said for nothing. If Jimmy died instead of Clark, then he took a serious back seat to what his responsibility was. And that would make this "fight" with Doomsday anything but his version of Ollie's island.

[All about Clark]

My take was that Superman died by DD, not Clark. And Clark/Superman can have several encounters with DD and he only dies once. In the DVD eppy of Superman dying, DD had been baried and Lex got him out and then he killed Superman.

I'm not saying you can't be right about Clark's spirit visiting Chloe, I just don't think they will go this route.

As for Clark being dark next season, I don't see this beyond the premiere. TPTB are not going to hurt the Clark character any further than they did in the past IMO. I've seen a real improvement in Clark this season and hope it continues.

[xrayvision]

My take was that Superman died by DD, not Clark. And Clark/Superman can have several encounters with DD and he only dies once. In the DVD eppy of Superman dying, DD had been baried and Lex got him out and then he killed Superman.

I'm not saying you can't be right about Clark's spirit visiting Chloe, I just don't think they will go this route.

As for Clark being dark next season, I don't see this beyond the premiere. TPTB are not going to hurt the Clark character any further than they did in the past IMO. I've seen a real improvement in Clark this season and hope it continues.

Well the DVD isn't canon either. What happens in the comics is canon and Clark Kent/Superman was dead. But then again they are selective in what they follow, so I really don't know what they will do.

I do think he's dead, but there's a possibility that the darkness will end in the premiere. But with the amount of regression that took place in Doomsday, I really can't tell. I hope they follow the comics & have Jonathan (well his spirit since in Smallville he's dead) bring him back to his ideals because Clark is Superman based on the morals he learned from Jonathan & Martha, not due to anything based on his heritage. Only his powers stem from his heritage. The rest was all picked up from his adoptive family. The movies have failed to show this.

[marcella]

Clark is alive ( I mean the person:p)

[Mini Wolfsbane]

I'm just surprised (in a good way) that for once the season finale did not end with him losing his powers. I just realized this and think it's great. Finally moving in a new direction.

[holehead13]

I've only had time to read about half the pages in this thread so far, but here's my own take on the whole thing, and personally I hope it's correct because it would be the most tragic and therefore the most interesting, it may or may not correspond to what others believe.

Clark is dead (properly). I think the idea of a ghost is a little far-fetched even for Smallville (yes I remember Tomb, however much I try not to). Instead I believe the appearances of Clark at the end of the episode were meant as part of Chloe's Imagination - a creation of her mind meant as comfort. Here is a list of some reasons why I believe this:

1) Superman is meant to die fighting Doomsday. I am not usually a strong supporter of keeping Smallville in line with the mythos, but I think that because Doomsday is meant to be THAT much stronger than Clark, it is a bit odd for Clark not to have to sacrifice himself.

2) The first time we see Clark, it is right after Chloe desperately scans the graveyard for someone (most likely Clark), because she needs support. Then suddenly Clark is there in the background. I know many will ask 'how can he be a figment of her imagination when she doesn't even look in his direction?'. But I will point out that it is not uncommon on tv for characters to hallucinate entire scenes/situations, and when they turn around in these scenes, we dont suddenly have black holes where they're not looking. In other words, you could take Clark's distant presence at the funeral as Chloe's desire to have him there supporting her (which she mentions later on). Alternatively you could view it as Oliver's hallucination.

3) Clark can't explain how he survived. As a manifestation of Chloe's subconscious, of course he wouldn't know. (Or as a manifestation of Chloe's mind thinking he's dead, he wouldn't be able to create a reason)

4) Most Importantly the shared sentence " And I keep thinking that maybe I haven't..." - "lost everyone." If Clark is actually alive then clearly Chloe hasn't lost 'everyone', so why would she phrase it so bluntly like that?

5) Alot of the stuff that Clark and Chloe discuss in their final scene can be seen as Chloe bouncing thoughts back and forth in her head - whether she should stay at the 'watchtower' - whose fault it was that Jimmy was killed.

6) The combination of 'Clark Kent is Dead' - 'Goodbye Chloe' - and Clark disappearing in the doorway rather than walking or blurring out (considering how much they cut costs in this episode, it would have been cheaper just to have him walk out if he were still alive). To me this end of the scene just seems like Chloe accepting that Clark is dead (or at least it seems that way at the moment).

If we assume that Clark is indeed MIA, then Chloe has just lost Jimmy, Davis, Lois and Clark in one day. Who the hell wouldn't be a total wreck in her situation? It seems perfectly logical to me that her mind might create someone to comfort her a bit, to reassure. So that's my view.

To any that question where the mention of Lois fits in - I would argue that Clark is in fact Chloe's subconscious breaking the news to herself, stating out loud what she must have come to realise through her own digging.

Sorry if I bored you :P

[bluewolv1970]

well you know they puposely did not show what happened after the explosion becasue something weird happened to clark what happened after the explosion will probably be revealed in the premiere or in one of the early episodes and you know that whole conversation at the end clinches it for me that that was not clark he tells chloe that he cannot remember how he escaped and then he makes the commenet about not being able to save anyone on the way out (save who the plant was abndoned and the jla were at jimmys funeral) which means either black k affected clark (remember it was at the plant) or somehow the eradicator was at the plant (maybe he escaped the orb at the beginning when it broke our of tess office) and took over one of the split sides of clark

[xrayvision]

I've only had time to read about half the pages in this thread so far, but here's my own take on the whole thing, and personally I hope it's correct because it would be the most tragic and therefore the most interesting, it may or may not correspond to what others believe.

Clark is dead (properly). I think the idea of a ghost is a little far-fetched even for Smallville (yes I remember Tomb, however much I try not to). Instead I believe the appearances of Clark at the end of the episode were meant as part of Chloe's Imagination - a creation of her mind meant as comfort. Here is a list of some reasons why I believe this:

1) Superman is meant to die fighting Doomsday. I am not usually a strong supporter of keeping Smallville in line with the mythos, but I think that because Doomsday is meant to be THAT much stronger than Clark, it is a bit odd for Clark not to have to sacrifice himself.

2) The first time we see Clark, it is right after Chloe desperately scans the graveyard for someone (most likely Clark), because she needs support. Then suddenly Clark is there in the background. I know many will ask 'how can he be a figment of her imagination when she doesn't even look in his direction?'. But I will point out that it is not uncommon on tv for characters to hallucinate entire scenes/situations, and when they turn around in these scenes, we dont suddenly have black holes where they're not looking. In other words, you could take Clark's distant presence at the funeral as Chloe's desire to have him there supporting her (which she mentions later on). Alternatively you could view it as Oliver's hallucination.

3) Clark can't explain how he survived. As a manifestation of Chloe's subconscious, of course he wouldn't know. (Or as a manifestation of Chloe's mind thinking he's dead, he wouldn't be able to create a reason)

4) Most Importantly the shared sentence " And I keep thinking that maybe I haven't..." - "lost everyone." If Clark is actually alive then clearly Chloe hasn't lost 'everyone', so why would she phrase it so bluntly like that?

5) Alot of the stuff that Clark and Chloe discuss in their final scene can be seen as Chloe bouncing thoughts back and forth in her head - whether she should stay at the 'watchtower' - whose fault it was that Jimmy was killed.

6) The combination of 'Clark Kent is Dead' - 'Goodbye Chloe' - and Clark disappearing in the doorway rather than walking or blurring out (considering how much they cut costs in this episode, it would have been cheaper just to have him walk out if he were still alive). To me this end of the scene just seems like Chloe accepting that Clark is dead (or at least it seems that way at the moment).

If we assume that Clark is indeed MIA, then Chloe has just lost Jimmy, Davis, Lois and Clark in one day. Who the hell wouldn't be a total wreck in her situation? It seems perfectly logical to me that her mind might create someone to comfort her a bit, to reassure. So that's my view.

To any that question where the mention of Lois fits in - I would argue that Clark is in fact Chloe's subconscious breaking the news to herself, stating out loud what she must have come to realise through her own digging.

Sorry if I bored you :P

That's a very interesting take. I think they should bite the bullet and make it be Clark's ghost. Chloe was the one to see Gretchen's ghost in Tomb, so why not Clark's? And in the comics, following Superman's death from the battle, his spirit was seen wandering around like Clark seemed to be doing here.

I agree it makes it that much more tragic and gives the scene purpose. To have Clark skip out on sacrificing himself would take away any purpose in fighting and taking Doomsday down into the hole. Rokk said he would die and I think Clark finally chose to go towards his destiny---death. I am hoping for a poignant meeting between Clark's spirit & Jonathan's in the premiere. This would be like what happened in the comics, except Jonathan here would be in spirit form rather than be alive. We need to have a scene like that to bring Clark back to the symbol of hope that Jonathan said he would be back in Void.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

somehow the eradicator was at the plant (maybe he escaped the orb at the beginning when it broke our of tess office) and took over one of the split sides of clark

As much as I wanted this based on my theory in the Speculation forum, I doubt they would ever do this after seeing how badly they wrote Doomsday. These writers wouldn't know what the hell the Eradicator was. They'd think it was some sort of roach control mechanism for the Fortress of Solitude.

[princessdiana]

I posted part of this in another thread but wanted to bring it here as well:

1st, Clark did not literally disappear. That was a technique used to show that Clark has left, or that Clark Kent, what we see as the human side, has disappeared.

2nd I don't believe Clark is dead. But I do think he is dead inside right now. He has lost his humanity. Clark is embracing his Kryptonian side right now. He is disillusioned, with humans. He will go out and "be the hero the world needs me to be" by being more of a vigilante (much like the Eradicator, but he is not the Eradicator, he is still Clark, and this is an interesting twist on encompassing the Eradicator theme) He will be Kal, but not the Kal we all know and love.

3rd The Legend ring was just a plot device to get rid of Lois while Clark is going through this whole drama and so she won't know why he left. Lois will return. At first I thought she may not now Clark, but now I think she will be returned to find Clark gone.

She will hear how the RBB or some one like the RBB is out there doing good , but also doing it at a "take no prisoners approach", possibly killing criminals etc, with out thinking there is hope for them . Lois will find a way to contact him and it will be Lois that helps him embrace his humanity again. He will then return as Clark Kent without Lois ever knowing they are one and the same.

Now if TPTB go this route but place Chloe in place of Lois for pulling CK back, then they are going against there own dictate to "line up with the mythos". This is the perfect opportunity to develop, and show, what the Lois and Superman relationship is. DCU PTB describe Lois as Superman's humanity. It has been that way for 70 years, so let it be written, so let be done.

[xrayvision]

I posted part of this in another thread but wanted to bring it here as well:

1st, Clark did not literally disappear. That was a technique used to show that Clark has left, or that Clark Kent, what we see as the human side, has disappeared.

2nd I don't believe Clark is dead. But I do think he is dead inside right now. He has lost his humanity. Clark is embracing his Kryptonian side right now. He is disillusioned, with humans. He will go out and "be the hero the world needs me to be" by being more of a vigilante (much like the Eradicator, but he is not the Eradicator, he is still Clark, and this is an interesting twist on encompassing the Eradicator theme) He will be Kal, but not the Kal we all know and love.

3rd The Legend ring was just a plot device to get rid of Lois while Clark is going through this whole drama and so she won't know why he left. Lois will return. At first I thought she may not now Clark, but now I think she will be returned to find Clark gone.

She will hear how the RBB or some one like the RBB is out there doing good , but also doing it at a "take no prisoners approach", possibly killing criminals etc, with out thinking there is hope for them . Lois will find a way to contact him and it will be Lois that helps him embrace his humanity again. He will then return as Clark Kent without Lois ever knowing they are one and the same.

Now if TPTB go this route but place Chloe in place of Lois for pulling CK back, then they are going against there own dictate to "line up with the mythos". This is the perfect opportunity to develop, and show, what the Lois and Superman relationship is. DCU PTB describe Lois as Superman's humanity. It has been that way for 70 years, so let it be written, so let be done.

Actually the mythos isn't like that route. The mythos had Superman & Doomsday killing each other in battle. Superman was dead & his spirit was roaming the Earth and Jonathan made contact with him and brought him back to his body. While he was gone, the Eradicator (device) possessed a body that was made for it in the Fortress and became a Kryptonian like Superman, with various differences (his eyes were sensitive to visible light making him wear the yellow visor) and some powers were different.

So having Clark live, not having his spirit wander Earth, not having his spirit make contact with Jonathan (or in this case Jonathan's spirit), and not having the Eradicator do the hero work while Clark is dead would be disobeying the mythos.

Lois is an important factor in his tie to humanity, but after his death it was Jonathan who really brought him back and had to because after all Jonathan & his morals make him Superman.

In my opinion, they should have Jonathan (his spirit anyway) be the one in Smallville to bring him back to humanity & have Lois be his continuous tie with humanity after Jonathan's spirit's presence leaves. But they should not make Lois be his reason for saving humans, because that would be a monumental mistake. Clark loved & saved humans well before he met Lois...back when he was travelling the world before he became Superman he was helping people he didn't know & saving them from evil, disease, and many other things.

They need to show that:

1. Clark still loves & sees the best in humans on his own after Jonathan brings his spirit back to reunite with his body and fixes the current mentality he has

2. Clark will keep an emotional seperation from humans so that he doesn't consider himself one of them and can realize when they have to be saved (since this recognition can't happen when he's too close to them)

3. Clark having Lois as his main human with whom he does share an emotional attachment


This will work because he wouldn't have to worry about Lois backstabbing him and the dual identity will protect Lois from his enemies.

The bottom line is they have to tread very carefully to not have him become Superman based on Jor-El's desires, based on his feelings for Lois, or anything else other than what he learned his entire life from his parents. Because that has always made Superman who he is. The moment they make him become Superman for someone else is the moment that he will be Superman by name only and not the iconic character from the comics.

[princessdiana]

Actually the mythos isn't like that route. The mythos had Superman & Doomsday killing each other in battle. Superman was dead & his spirit was roaming the Earth and Jonathan made contact with him and brought him back to his body. While he was gone, the Eradicator (device) possessed a body that was made for it in the Fortress and became a Kryptonian like Superman, with various differences (his eyes were sensitive to visible light making him wear the yellow visor) and some powers were different.

So having Clark live, not having his spirit wander Earth, not having his spirit make contact with Jonathan (or in this case Jonathan's spirit), and not having the Eradicator do the hero work while Clark is dead would be disobeying the mythos.

Lois is an important factor in his tie to humanity, but after his death it was Jonathan who really brought him back and had to because after all Jonathan & his morals make him Superman.

In my opinion, they should have Jonathan (his spirit anyway) be the one in Smallville to bring him back to humanity & have Lois be his continuous tie with humanity after Jonathan's spirit's presence leaves. But they should not make Lois be his reason for saving humans, because that would be a monumental mistake. Clark loved & saved humans well before he met Lois...back when he was travelling the world before he became Superman he was helping people he didn't know & saving them from evil, disease, and many other things.

They need to show that:

1. Clark still loves & sees the best in humans on his own after Jonathan brings his spirit back to reunite with his body and fixes the current mentality he has

2. Clark will keep an emotional seperation from humans so that he doesn't consider himself one of them and can realize when they have to be saved (since this recognition can't happen when he's too close to them)

3. Clark having Lois as his main human with whom he does share an emotional attachment


This will work because he wouldn't have to worry about Lois backstabbing him and the dual identity will protect Lois from his enemies.

The bottom line is they have to tread very carefully to not have him become Superman based on Jor-El's desires, based on his feelings for Lois, or anything else other than what he learned his entire life from his parents. Because that has always made Superman who he is. The moment they make him become Superman for someone else is the moment that he will be Superman by name only and not the iconic character from the comics.

Clark is not Superman yet, so the story told in SV last night was a pre-fight. DD is buried and will be unearthed in the future to fight Superman and kill him.

At this point, Clark is still on his journey to become Superman. TPTB are, I assume, attempting to recapture that premise of the show while still moving forward. In his journey he is going to falter after all that has transpired. He will take on more of Ollie attitude. He says, Ollie was right. In the end he will learn from this mistake as well, finally becoming the Superman we know.

Now, I what I spoke about regarding Lois guiding him back from a dark place, I don't think he will do it for her alone. But I think she will help him to start realizing that maybe there is good, maybe there is hope. Lois was already a tether to the human world for him when he spoke to her as the RBB.

I think they are taking a few different aspects of what happened after the TDOS and using those bits and pieces to weave a story with their own SV twist. Like having Clark act somewhat like the Eradicator, but he's still Clark.

I don't believe Clark is dead, so I don't believe his soul will be wandering and needing guidance from Jonathan. And Lois talking to the RBB won't be the only reason he changes his tune, but his own experiences while he's out there helping people, seeing the look in a little girl's eyes that he has saved, learning that there is always hope.

[xrayvision]

I guess we'll have to see what happens. I will stick to my guns and believe Clark is dead like Rokk said he would die.

At the same time, once Clark starts murdering people like Oliver did to Lex, he will lose any opportunity of ever becoming the iconic character. Clark never had a kill villians mentality before he became Superman.

Considering Lois is MIA, I think there's a small possibility that Jonathan will guide him back to the right frame of mind, though knowing TPTB they will probably have it be Chloe (:rolleyes:). I think Jonathan/Chloe will give a similar speech heard in Void, but this time focus more on the good in humans and Clark's past mistakes and just like JK warned him of Lionel knowing his secret & him having to protect Martha & the world, it will be JK/Chloe telling him that he needs to find/save Lois & protect the world. And from then on, he will watch Lois closer than he has in the past and protect humanity from a distance.

After all, his big problem as seen with Lana was not realizing her flaws. That was his biggest problem. Even though Lana brought it up herself in Accelerate that one day he would see the flaws in her, he never did. He continued to have the same problem with Chloe, especially with what she did in Beast. He continued to believe that Chloe was innocent in the whole thing. Had he kept a distance from Chloe & Lana, he would have realized that both needed help. This is what Clark has to learn--to see the best yet keep a distance.

[madcatlady]

I'm getting dizzy reading each perspective, because they all sort of make sense. I hope it gets cleared up really soon.

[xrayvision]

^^4 months

[adromidon]

Is it possible the man talking to Chloe was Bizzaro some how? I mean is it not poissible for he to return i know he was blown up but people on SV have recovered from worse

[xrayvision]

No way, not Bizarro. Even if that version of Bizarro returned, he would be revealed to be named Bizarroah instead of Bizarro and be killed off since he did not align with the mythos Bizarro.

[adromidon]

Is it possible it was just someone with the ability to mimic Clark's voice and apearance then?

[xrayvision]

The Eradicator would look a lot like Clark and may even sound like him, but they haven't shown any evidence.

I don't understand why it's hard to believe he died. Doomsday was much stronger than him. He didn't only drag him into the hole but they had to have a beatdown down there otherwise Doomsday would have escaped the hole. Doomsday/Davis was already killed by an explosion, so the explosion at the factory didn't even scratch him. In the comics, Superman was beating Doomsday for over a day and he hardly felt any effects of the beating Superman was giving him. Rokk said it would happen. I doubt Clark would have sidestepped his responsibility and avoided dying, given that he didn't want to send him to the 31st century.

Just my thoughts anyway. Given the track record of this show and the things they pulled out of nowhere in the past, I could be totally wrong.

[Joe Kahn]

I've only had time to read about half the pages in this thread so far, but here's my own take on the whole thing, and personally I hope it's correct because it would be the most tragic and therefore the most interesting, it may or may not correspond to what others believe.

Clark is dead (properly). I think the idea of a ghost is a little far-fetched even for Smallville (yes I remember Tomb, however much I try not to). Instead I believe the appearances of Clark at the end of the episode were meant as part of Chloe's Imagination - a creation of her mind meant as comfort. Here is a list of some reasons why I believe this:

1) Superman is meant to die fighting Doomsday. I am not usually a strong supporter of keeping Smallville in line with the mythos, but I think that because Doomsday is meant to be THAT much stronger than Clark, it is a bit odd for Clark not to have to sacrifice himself.

2) The first time we see Clark, it is right after Chloe desperately scans the graveyard for someone (most likely Clark), because she needs support. Then suddenly Clark is there in the background. I know many will ask 'how can he be a figment of her imagination when she doesn't even look in his direction?'. But I will point out that it is not uncommon on tv for characters to hallucinate entire scenes/situations, and when they turn around in these scenes, we dont suddenly have black holes where they're not looking. In other words, you could take Clark's distant presence at the funeral as Chloe's desire to have him there supporting her (which she mentions later on). Alternatively you could view it as Oliver's hallucination.

3) Clark can't explain how he survived. As a manifestation of Chloe's subconscious, of course he wouldn't know. (Or as a manifestation of Chloe's mind thinking he's dead, he wouldn't be able to create a reason)

4) Most Importantly the shared sentence " And I keep thinking that maybe I haven't..." - "lost everyone." If Clark is actually alive then clearly Chloe hasn't lost 'everyone', so why would she phrase it so bluntly like that?

5) Alot of the stuff that Clark and Chloe discuss in their final scene can be seen as Chloe bouncing thoughts back and forth in her head - whether she should stay at the 'watchtower' - whose fault it was that Jimmy was killed.

6) The combination of 'Clark Kent is Dead' - 'Goodbye Chloe' - and Clark disappearing in the doorway rather than walking or blurring out (considering how much they cut costs in this episode, it would have been cheaper just to have him walk out if he were still alive). To me this end of the scene just seems like Chloe accepting that Clark is dead (or at least it seems that way at the moment).

If we assume that Clark is indeed MIA, then Chloe has just lost Jimmy, Davis, Lois and Clark in one day. Who the hell wouldn't be a total wreck in her situation? It seems perfectly logical to me that her mind might create someone to comfort her a bit, to reassure. So that's my view.

To any that question where the mention of Lois fits in - I would argue that Clark is in fact Chloe's subconscious breaking the news to herself, stating out loud what she must have come to realise through her own digging.

Sorry if I bored you :P

You certainly did not bore me. Good theory. Say Chloe did imagine him. He sure didn't comfort her, did he? He did just the opposite of that. He acted very out of character, and rejected her.

i.e. Clark's behavior doesn't seem to me to fit your theory too well.

Also, while I'm not sure, my impression was that Oliver saw Clark at Jimmy's funeral too.

[adromidon]

I only question it because they said that any charecter that dies will stay dead this season

[xrayvision]

I wouldn't take the spoilers word for word. They have been wrong in the past. Unfortunately I think Jimmy will stay dead. But Clark wouldn't, and him not dying after Rokk said he would and after taking on Doomsday when DD was so much stronger than CK wouldn't make sense.

[Blue screen of death]

My thoughts are Clark is dead and so is doomsday. This was made evident by after CK did his "superleap" with DD into the ground and there was the explosion it was night. It stayed night and the fires burned. Then it was day and the fire was out. During that time no evidence, that i can remember, pointed to CK or DD living through that. I would have to support the eradicator theory as it being the "person" that was talking to chloe and at jimmies funeral. Zod has been trying to "get rid of " Kal-el for awhile now. First through Aethyr and nemek.Then brainiac, again brainiac and himself through lex luthor. A third time with Braniac as well as bizzaro thought bizzaro never knew it and later Doomsday. Also a nudge in the right direction for DD from Faeora with brainiac/chloiac's "help". Now he's succeeded, Kal-el is dead, the only one that can oppose him, and Zod is free. All he needs now is a bucket of chicken and a million dollars and Zod is set. Its lookin' like he could have that with Tess. Things are looking good on the side of Zod right now.

Unless ofcourse the black kryptonite did something to clark when bart shoved it in his face and went Whoah! watch that there guy. That is indeed a whole other can of worms.

[xrayvision]

^^A lot of that is pretty much what I said, but I don't think the explosion killed them. I think the 2 brawled underground. Doomsday was killed by an explosion in Eternal when Tess blew him up. It would take much more than that explosion to kill Doomsday. I think the 2 brawled underground all night & maybe are still brawling there now, if who we thought was Clark was really the Eradicator. I'm leaning more toward Clark being dead after fighting DD for an entire day down there. Rokk said it would happen, so I'm guessing it did.

In the comics, the Eradicator's memory of Superman's life was fuzzy like we saw "Clark's" memory being when Chloe asked him how he escaped the hole. So this may be a clue that the Eradicator was released. But we need full details because no mention whatsoever was ever made of him so far.

[Exedore]

Maybe they killed each other while fighting underground. Of course Doomsday will only be dead for a short time and Clark will have to be regenerated in the FOS after his body is retrieved (by the Eradicator if they have any desire to redeem themselves).

[xrayvision]

Maybe they killed each other while fighting underground. Of course Doomsday will only be dead for a short time and Clark will have to be regenerated in the FOS after his body is retrieved (by the Eradicator if they have any desire to redeem themselves).

Yeah. I think the rumors about Matt Morgan playing Doomsday in season 9 mean that once Clark's body is retrieved from the hole, Doomsday will rise up as well and they will have round 2.

I also think it's possible they are in the hole still fighting.

[tepesimpaler]

hey everyone this is my first time doing this and would love some feelings bout what im saying i could be wrong could be right who know but if u think about it they added doomsday brainiac bizzaro all be before there time whos to say they arent going for a cyborg steel eradicator superboy apperance storyline thing i mean they do this alot they kill people before there time when they arent suppose to die and they add people who arent suppose to be there i mean this is smallville before superman but it is theyre adaptation of the story u know they can do what they want and i mean i like it if the show wasnt interesting or wasnt any good or anything like it has been none of us would watch it you know and doomsday isnt dead either by the way if u watch again they didnt destroy him they trapped him just like in the comics and it the anime version he was trapped under earth deep in the earth in his ship this time they just trapped him under a bunch of earth it makes sense it doesnt i know but these are just my opinions

[xrayvision]

Welcome tepesimpaler.

I don't think there's any chance we'll see the Reign of the Supermen storyline happening on this show since there is no Superman yet. I would love to see the Cyborg Superman, but there's no way with the budget they have that they could afford the effects to make Tom Welling look like a cyborg with only 1/4 of his face and the other 3/4 be the face of a cyborg.

If anything, they could have the Eradicator, since that is a missing element of the mythos. But they would have a lot of explaining to do since we got no indication of the Eradicator in the series. I thought the orb may be the Eradicator, but it doesn't seem like it anymore.

After what happened with Jimmy, they are very selective of what they want to make like the mythos and what they want to do their own way. Just for to be fair & consistent, I think every character deserves what happened to Jimmy to happen to them. Let's see how many fans there would be left then if these mythos rules would be applied equally to everyone.

[tepesimpaler]

very true i agree with you xrayvision but i dont know if you noticed whats with chloe giving jimmies camera to his little brother what was his name and maybe the jimmy we know isnt the jimmy we thought he was remember jimmy is very young in the comics not the same age as clark and lois

[xrayvision]

I think it's obvious that's what they were implying (that Jimmy's brother is the real Jimmy).

To me that's a betrayal, and the worst kind of betrayal by the writers. They had a responsibility to choose whether or not they wanted to bring Jimmy & keep him on. I didn't mind the age factor between his age in the comics compared to Lois' & Clark's ages and his age in the show. What I did mind was getting a Jimmy that we all thought would be Smallville's version of Jimmy, and then at the last second as a cheap trick just to have a death in the finale & save on the budget, for them to kill him off with the lamest of excuses that his brother is the real Jimmy Olsen. Who the hell would ever believe such a stupid storyline.

[holehead13]

thats kind of the whole point?

And I think there are two certainties to come out of this episode.

1) Clark did die. Rokk said he would and still Clark did exactly wot he would have done if Rokk hadn't come back and told him - he tracked chloe down, had doomsday split in two and then tried to deal with the beast. It wouldn't make sense if Rokk's prediction didn't still come true, since his intervention changed nothing.

2) Doomsday is still alive - there's no way that an explosion like that would kill him, Clark didn't know how to kill him, and he even said beforehand that his plan was just to bury Doomsday alive. Clearly this is an inadequate plan since we all know Doomsday will be able to escape.

[xrayvision]

But there's no way a hole in the ground could keep Doomsday stuck inside. He would either have to be dead too or is on the verge of escaping in the premiere, which I think will definitely happen.

I would like to see Clark & the Eradicator vs. Zod & Doomsday.

[Blue screen of death]

^^A lot of that is pretty much what I said, but I don't think the explosion killed them. I think the 2 brawled underground. Doomsday was killed by an explosion in Eternal when Tess blew him up. It would take much more than that explosion to kill Doomsday. I think the 2 brawled underground all night & maybe are still brawling there now, if who we thought was Clark was really the Eradicator. I'm leaning more toward Clark being dead after fighting DD for an entire day down there. Rokk said it would happen, so I'm guessing it did.

In the comics, the Eradicator's memory of Superman's life was fuzzy like we saw "Clark's" memory being when Chloe asked him how he escaped the hole. So this may be a clue that the Eradicator was released. But we need full details because no mention whatsoever was ever made of him so far.

Yeah i think the "prophecy of Rokk" is true and death was imminent was for CK. He will ofcourse somehow be revived. the question is Does or did the black K do anything to/for CK? Is a "piece" of him somehow broken off to be used to revive him?

Xrayvision you are the madman of crazy cool theories have anything in regards to the black k? its late,i'm tired and lazy and probably missed it 15 posts earlier or so, a link would be cool please. Or did i somehow get the gears a rollin'? for yet another theory :eek:

[xrayvision]

I honestly don't know. All I know is that something happened to Clark and they didn't show it yet. Here are the possbilities:

1. Clark took Doomsday underground & was killed by him and Doomsday will imminently resurface in the S9 premiere. The being that we saw as Clark was either his spirit or the Eradicator.

2. Clark took Doomsday underground & they killed each other down there & both will fight again in the S9 premiere when someone gets his body out, where Doomsday will follow. The being that we saw as Clark was either his spirit or the Eradicator.

3. Clark took Doomsday underground & the 2 are still fighting down there. The being that we saw as Clark was the Eradicator. Clark & Doomsday will resurface in the S9 premiere & continue their fight above ground.

4. Clark somehow encountered black-k while he was down in the hole & split off. His Clark Kent side continued to fight Doomsday & died in battle. The being we saw was either Clark's spirit or a lower energy form of the Clark Kent side after he was killed (since he chances are he can't be a ghost, or else that would mean both his CK & Kal-El sides have their own spirits/ghosts & I doubt Clark has 2 souls).

[harryandginnyfanatic]

I think him fading like that was just put there for dramatic emphasis.

[tepesimpaler]

yes xrayvision your right the implication was very obvious the thing is hopefully they redeem themselves and that is all our hopes and dreams zod is doomsdays father correct is doomsday engineerd to be controled by zod or will he kill zod just like he would any other he is just doomsday now is zod as badass as doomsday is suppose to be or is he nothing compared to his son it seems dumb to me if clark struggles with zod if he so easily defeated doomsday dont u think and doomsday is suppose to dominate all its just weird to me give your opinion and take on this situation

----- Added 12 Minutes later -----

anyone feel free to reply to my last post

----- Added 14 Minutes later -----

anyone feel free to reply to my last post and give your opinions please

[xrayvision]

I think him fading like that was just put there for dramatic emphasis.

I know what you mean because I've seen it in other shows. Hopefully they don't start using effects like that that they never used in this show.

We'll have to see. They could still be fighting underground, or Clark or Clark AND Doomsday could have died after fighting an entire day in the hole.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

yes xrayvision your right the implication was very obvious the thing is hopefully they redeem themselves and that is all our hopes and dreams zod is doomsdays father correct is doomsday engineerd to be controled by zod or will he kill zod just like he would any other he is just doomsday now is zod as badass as doomsday is suppose to be or is he nothing compared to his son it seems dumb to me if clark struggles with zod if he so easily defeated doomsday dont u think and doomsday is suppose to dominate all its just weird to me give your opinion and take on this situation

----- Added 12 Minutes later -----

anyone feel free to reply to my last post

----- Added 14 Minutes later -----

anyone feel free to reply to my last post and give your opinions please

I just didn't want to see Zod. I would rather have had 2 full rounds with Doomsday than 1 with Doomsday & 1 with Zod. I'm tired of Zod after what they did in season 6. Hopefully he'll be gone after the premiere.

[abbaspice1]

I posted part of this in another thread but wanted to bring it here as well:

1st, Clark did not literally disappear. That was a technique used to show that Clark has left, or that Clark Kent, what we see as the human side, has disappeared.

2nd I don't believe Clark is dead. But I do think he is dead inside right now. He has lost his humanity. Clark is embracing his Kryptonian side right now. He is disillusioned, with humans. He will go out and "be the hero the world needs me to be" by being more of a vigilante (much like the Eradicator, but he is not the Eradicator, he is still Clark, and this is an interesting twist on encompassing the Eradicator theme) He will be Kal, but not the Kal we all know and love.

3rd The Legend ring was just a plot device to get rid of Lois while Clark is going through this whole drama and so she won't know why he left. Lois will return. At first I thought she may not now Clark, but now I think she will be returned to find Clark gone.

She will hear how the RBB or some one like the RBB is out there doing good , but also doing it at a "take no prisoners approach", possibly killing criminals etc, with out thinking there is hope for them . Lois will find a way to contact him and it will be Lois that helps him embrace his humanity again. He will then return as Clark Kent without Lois ever knowing they are one and the same.

Now if TPTB go this route but place Chloe in place of Lois for pulling CK back, then they are going against there own dictate to "line up with the mythos". This is the perfect opportunity to develop, and show, what the Lois and Superman relationship is. DCU PTB describe Lois as Superman's humanity. It has been that way for 70 years, so let it be written, so let be done.


MAn, I was going to post this. Clark embraces being Kal-El-- doing the right thing, but being very cold about it, almost like a robot. Lois comes back (probably from the future) and realizes that that RBB definitely needs a friend. With Zod back int he pic it seems, Kal calls her to make sure that is the real Lois and not Faora, and then the ice around his heart slowly begins to melt and she helps him regian his sense of humanity.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

Maybe in the future where Lois goes, Clark is remembered as a tyrant and never became Superman, the symbol of hope.

[xrayvision]

^^Kal-El is likely dead in that future like Rokk said.

[hairybitz]

yea clark did seem abit weird in that scene with chloe, like how he cnt remember how he escaped, maybe he was meant to die there but lois and the legion come back from the future and help him escape then use the ring again , and because clark wasnt the one using the ring he would have his mind slightly wiped, hard to understand it by my writing but in my head i have it pretty sussed out. what do you think?

[harryandginnyfanatic]

^^Kal-El is likely dead in that future like Rokk said.

Assuming that Clark in the present is dead, which I don't think he is.

[Jackso11]

It will only last a few episodes if that, then he will be back to normal.
He just thinks he needs to cut his friends out and save the world on his own. Whoever thought clark was really dead and that was a ghost.....come on, of course not. He just thinks its best if he is just the RBB and not clark.....which won't last.

[|Xander|]

I think that the Legion did have something to do with Clark surviving which we'll probably see in the first episode of S9. Maybe they will start out the first episode showing the fight at the geothermal plant and what actually transpired.

Clark is physically alive and well, but he has finally made a choice to accept that humanity needs him to be Kryptonian instead of human. I also don't think he's been pushed to his limit up until now and realizes he needs the training if he's to be the hero humanity requires.

If it were Clark's choice, he would still want to be 'goold ole clark' to everyone and still have friends with his human side, but I don't think he wants to take another punch like that one- not again.

Although brief, this encounter with Doomsday was a rite of passage for Clark. He sees that he can't be everything to everyone while he still leads a human life. The emotional needs of his friends and himself jeopardize how he's able to make the decisions he needs to make now and in the future.

[gem65]

He's not dead, it's just used for effect. He was fading out much like he was deciding to fade out of the lives of the people close to him. Kryptonians do NOT have ghost powers :P

I was thinking along the same lines as you. I don't think he's actually dead. As for Lois, she was last seen holding that legion ring - so maybe somehow she was transported to the future. It's going to be a long long summer.:confused:

----- Added 12 Minutes later -----

I posted part of this in another thread but wanted to bring it here as well:

1st, Clark did not literally disappear. That was a technique used to show that Clark has left, or that Clark Kent, what we see as the human side, has disappeared.

2nd I don't believe Clark is dead. But I do think he is dead inside right now. He has lost his humanity. Clark is embracing his Kryptonian side right now. He is disillusioned, with humans. He will go out and "be the hero the world needs me to be" by being more of a vigilante (much like the Eradicator, but he is not the Eradicator, he is still Clark, and this is an interesting twist on encompassing the Eradicator theme) He will be Kal, but not the Kal we all know and love.

3rd The Legend ring was just a plot device to get rid of Lois while Clark is going through this whole drama and so she won't know why he left. Lois will return. At first I thought she may not now Clark, but now I think she will be returned to find Clark gone.

She will hear how the RBB or some one like the RBB is out there doing good , but also doing it at a "take no prisoners approach", possibly killing criminals etc, with out thinking there is hope for them . Lois will find a way to contact him and it will be Lois that helps him embrace his humanity again. He will then return as Clark Kent without Lois ever knowing they are one and the same.

Now if TPTB go this route but place Chloe in place of Lois for pulling CK back, then they are going against there own dictate to "line up with the mythos". This is the perfect opportunity to develop, and show, what the Lois and Superman relationship is. DCU PTB describe Lois as Superman's humanity. It has been that way for 70 years, so let it be written, so let be done.

I love your post. I agree 100% with you. I couldn't have said it better myself. Well said!!!;)

[ReevesSuperman]

Enough. He is not a ghost, he is accepting his destiny. He flew out of the explosion, he just didn't want to tell Chloe. Just because, Clark finally made sense in a speech about humanity doesn't mean he is a ghost. If all summer we have to hear these wild theories about ghosts, multiple Lexs and Chloe being pregnant its going to be a very long and annoying summer.

[gem65]

I thought Oliver saw Clark at Jimmy/Henry's funeral. Also, if he was a ghost, how was Chloe able to hug him?

I think that Oliver did see Clark. Didn't they look at each other? That's what it looked like to me.:confused:

[harryandginnyfanatic]

He flew out of the explosion, he just didn't want to tell Chloe.

Oh, if only! :)

[Exedore]

I thought Oliver saw Clark at Jimmy/Henry's funeral.

Oliver was looking down at the coffin most of the time. So I don't think we can say with certainty that he did see him. Though Clark seemed to nod at him for a second or two. I dunno. It could go either way. :\

Also, if he was a ghost, how was Chloe able to hug him?

Coz she's Chloe. :rolleyes:

[adromidon]

I know what you mean because I've seen it in other shows. Hopefully they don't start using effects like that that they never used in this show.

We'll have to see. They could still be fighting underground, or Clark or Clark AND Doomsday could have died after fighting an entire day in the hole.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----



I just didn't want to see Zod. I would rather have had 2 full rounds with Doomsday than 1 with Doomsday & 1 with Zod. I'm tired of Zod after what they did in season 6. Hopefully he'll be gone after the premiere.
To me what would suck is if in season 9 we see Clark and doomsday holding hands and skipping out of the hole singing. I mean seriously Smallville is notorious for making villians all the sudden have a temporary lapse in evil and see things the CK way. Look at Lex, Tess Bizzaro and the list goes on

Granit this is usualy only temporary ( 1 or 2 episodes) then they are back to their normal selves.

Or if Some how Clark gets Doomsday worn down and decides he is a life worth saving and when he tries to save Doomsday gets impailed or something by doomsday

[tidohawk]

It's not clark it's kal-el some how he also got hit in the face with black kryptonite. but did clark die like Kal said "Clark Kent is dead"

[Jack-El49]

You certainly did not bore me. Good theory. Say Chloe did imagine him. He sure didn't comfort her, did he? He did just the opposite of that. He acted very out of character, and rejected her.

i.e. Clark's behavior doesn't seem to me to fit your theory too well.

Also, while I'm not sure, my impression was that Oliver saw Clark at Jimmy's funeral too.

My opinion is if this was a spectre, not the real person, he would have presented himself the way Chloe wanted to see him. I believe this is Clark. It is a Clark that feels all is lost; the only true link to humanity is missing/gone, those he trusted have at worst betrayed him and at best gravely disappointed him; that humanity in general is too emotional to be worthy of putting on a pedestal and that belief flies in the face of everything he had been taught by his parents and felt growing up. Clark got a dose of reality when the guy he was trying to save killed the guy who he had begun to admire and trust.

Clark was disillusioned with the human race and while searching for the one link to his humanity that has not let him down or betrayed his trust, he came to the realization that with her gone and no one else left to fit that bill, he is better off embracing his Kryptonian heritage.

The disappearing at the door was a metaphor meant to explain the Clark we've known has disappeared as a result of all that happened. He is alive but he no longer feels like he wants to be or can embrace his identity of Clark Kent and that identity vanished at the conclusion of the season.

[nic25]

My opinion is if this was a spectre, not the real person, he would have presented himself the way Chloe wanted to see him. I believe this is Clark. It is a Clark that feels all is lost; the only true link to humanity is missing/gone, those he trusted have at worst betrayed him and at best gravely disappointed him; that humanity in general is too emotional to be worthy of putting on a pedestal and that belief flies in the face of everything he had been taught by his parents and felt growing up. Clark got a dose of reality when the guy he was trying to save killed the guy who he had begun to admire and trust.

Clark was disillusioned with the human race and while searching for the one link to his humanity that has not let him down or betrayed his trust, he came to the realization that with her gone and no one else left to fit that bill, he is better off embracing his Kryptonian heritage.

The disappearing at the door was a metaphor meant to explain the Clark we've known has disappeared as a result of all that happened. He is alive but he no longer feels like he wants to be or can embrace his identity of Clark Kent and that identity vanished at the conclusion of the season.

Very well said Jack! :)

[Rick23]

luv all the different prespectives on next season and also wondering if that was Clark at funeral why NO handful of dirt like others funerals

[adromidon]

I had a theory based on some of what i have read this one could actually have happened

here it is

1) Clark when sending doomsday to the hole in the ground came in contact with black K (it was still in the plant)

2) the split was unclean and the resulting Kal-EL that split was left with a smalll minute part of Clarks feelings toward people resulting in him approaching Chloe and letting her hug him (the pure Kal-EL would probably have let it happen but brushed it off as being a wasted human emotion and not hugged back) and telling her his intentions which the Pure Kal-EL would not have cared to do.

3) the remaining half of Clark was was so underpowered he died when the explotion hit leaving his other half which was mostly the Kal-El personality to take over his life

this theory works in my eys for the simple fact that we have never seen a full Clark/Kal-El split. In Crusaide he was for most of the episode just reprogramed not split it was not until martha threw himt he black K that he began to split from Kal-EL. However he ended the split before it was finished resulting in us not know how Black K would split them exactly is it possible that a split could happen that left a small imprint of the other. Meaning is is possible we could get a Kal-EL with a slight bit of Clarks personality and a Clark with a slight bit of Kal-Els?

In the Movies we see him split and the other half is evil why? This is due to Black and Red K being mixed. The black K cause a split and the red K caused the split version to act irrationaly and with hate and pretty much be pure evil.

[princessdiana]

MAn, I was going to post this. Clark embraces being Kal-El-- doing the right thing, but being very cold about it, almost like a robot. Lois comes back (probably from the future) and realizes that that RBB definitely needs a friend. With Zod back int he pic it seems, Kal calls her to make sure that is the real Lois and not Faora, and then the ice around his heart slowly begins to melt and she helps him regian his sense of humanity.


Hopefully it will play this way. DC has talked about doing a "dark Superman" and there is the character of the Eradicator to pull ideas from. I think this would really play well. It got me excited for Season 9. I just hope they play the Lois angle as well. Lois is said to be his "humanity" and it would really develop that side of their relationship, go a little more into what the movies never really showed.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

Oliver was looking down at the coffin most of the time. So I don't think we can say with certainty that he did see him. Though Clark seemed to nod at him for a second or two. I dunno. It could go either way. :\

I just rewatched the finale and I do believe Clark and Oliver gave each other a nod, and that plays well into there relationship right now. Acknowledging each other, Clark acknowledging, "Ollie you were right" and Ollie acknowledging that in the end Clark saved the day.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

[quote=gem65;4856433]I was thinking along the same lines as you. I don't think he's actually dead. As for Lois, she was last seen holding that legion ring - so maybe somehow she was transported to the future. It's going to be a long long summer.:confused:

----- Added 12 Minutes later -----



I love your post. I agree 100% with you. I couldn't have said it better myself. Well said!!!;)

Thank you. It is what is giving me hope for season 9.

[Liquid-Prince]

luv all the different prespectives on next season and also wondering if that was Clark at funeral why NO handful of dirt like others funerals

I thought of that too. He's gonna have to do it in season nine. The producers are porbably sitting and smiling right now. When we first saw it, we didn't know what to think, but now there are so many possible situations. Holy cow.

[Chloe Bloome]

Clark is being a big drama queen, like he lost anything other than the dangly contents between his legs..... Chloe should not have put up with all that whiny talk of his 'loss in humanity', what rubbish. Chloe lost two lovers (lol) and her cousin, she lost her happy ending, and Clark is huffing over metaphors. She should've smacked him purple.

[Liquid-Prince]

Clark is being a big drama queen, like he lost anything other than the dangly contents between his legs..... Chloe should not have put up with all that whiny talk of his 'loss in humanity', what rubbish. Chloe lost two lovers (lol) and her cousin, she lost her happy ending, and Clark is huffing over metaphors. She should've smacked him purple.

It's harder when you lose someone and you think it's your fault, then just losing someone.

[Davis Bloome]

Yeah, losing faith in humanity? As Chloe said, "you're gonna give up humanity for one psychopath?!". While I don't like the idea how they turned Davis in one, it's clear that Clark only refers to his own humanity that is at fault, not humanity in general. He chose to lose it, based on the murder of one friend of his... Then he decides to give up everything... That is just silly.

[Chloe Bloome]

It's harder when you lose someone and you think it's your fault, then just losing someone.

Yeah but he turns his back on humankind for a bs reason. His parents were human, the ones he loves. He should be old enough to realize that humans, as krytonians, have different sides to them, what is he four? All people are good then he grows up to realize they aren't?

[Davis Bloome]

Yeah but he turns his back on humankind for a bs reason. His parents were human, the ones he loves. He should be old enough to realize that humans, as krytonians, have different sides to them, what is he four? All people are good then he grows up to realize they aren't?
True, humans have a good side as well as a bad side, so do Kryptonians. But like I said Clark decides everything on the evil of one person and how could he after all the good his other friends have shown him and his parents too. He just is being selfish by turning his back on them.

[Liquid-Prince]

Yeah but he turns his back on humankind for a bs reason. His parents were human, the ones he loves. He should be old enough to realize that humans, as krytonians, have different sides to them, what is he four? All people are good then he grows up to realize they aren't?

Not really. Clark put all that trouble into making it a big deal of saving Davis, because he thought the human side was worth saving. He saved him and what happened? The very side he tried to save went on and killed Jimmy. Now he's lost. If he hadn't relayed on his human emotions Jimmy wouldn't have died. The next season will him becoming more detached but also realizing that his human side is still important or he becomes another Zod.

[Chloe Bloome]

Not really. Clark put all that trouble into making it a big deal of saving Davis, because he thought the human side was worth saving. He saved him and what happened? The very side he tried to save went on and killed Jimmy. Now he's lost. If he hadn't relayed on his human emotions Jimmy wouldn't have died. The next season will him becoming more detached but also realizing that his human side is still important or he becomes another Zod.

Yes but again that is one human. One out of 6 billion yet he draws a conclusion. Hence why he was selfish and irrational. He's only thinking about himself and leaving behind the people who have supported him and been there for him.

[Liquid-Prince]

Yes but again that is one human. One out of 6 billion yet he draws a conclusion. Hence why he was selfish and irrational. He's only thinking about himself and leaving behind the people who have supported him and been there for him.

No. All his friends this season were acting weird. Chloe left, and although he eventually found out why, it was still a blow. Oliver KILLED Lex, and freaking shot Clark in the back. Canary and Impulse just stood around and watched. That liquid lady tried to expose him and screw him over. Lex his once best friend made his love Lana untouchable. All that does a lot in making a person feel humanity is lost...

[Chloe Bloome]

No. All his friends this season were acting weird. Chloe left, and although he eventually found out why, it was still a blow. Oliver KILLED Lex, and freaking shot Clark in the back. Canary and Impulse just stood around and watched. All that does a lot in making a person feel humanity is lost...
Yeah but he forgave Oliver in the blink of an eye before he had come to that decision, it's not like they had still fallen out. With Chloe, he knew why, he knew she did it for him, shouldn't that have made him realize how much she cares for him? Again these are all excuses for Clark, but he should know better than that. Like I said, he's being irrational and selfish, and that is why in the next season they will make him snap out of it, cause now he's being just having a hissy fit and needs time to let his huff move on lol

[ryan-el]

clearly all the discussion means that the producers did a better job in the finale than we claim.

its simple...create multiple angle outlets for discussion and speculation, as to keep the audience interested for next season.

although i was upset about the fight...i must say, this finale was top notch.

[Liquid-Prince]

Yeah but he forgave Oliver in the blink of an eye before he had come to that decision, it's not like they had still fallen out. With Chloe, he knew why, he knew she did it for him, shouldn't that have made him realize how much she cares for him? Again these are all excuses for Clark, but he should know better than that. Like I said, he's being irrational and selfish, and that is why in the next season they will make him snap out of it, cause now he's being just having a hissy fit and needs time to let his huff move on lol

I edited in more example up there. But that isn't the point. So what if he forgave them. The point is that he realized even his close friends are capable of doing such things, even if he is an influence on them. All that was left is if Pete ran in and T-Bagged Clark while he was fighting Doomsday.

[Krypto_marcus]

Clark, a ghost? Wait a minute, Am I in the Supernatural Episode section?

[Jack-El49]

Yes but again that is one human. One out of 6 billion yet he draws a conclusion. Hence why he was selfish and irrational. He's only thinking about himself and leaving behind the people who have supported him and been there for him.

That's a pretty shallow interpretation. Chloe betrayed/disillusioned him. Oliver betrayed/disillusioned him. Jimmy died because of it. His "never kill" principal was put to the test and realized that absolutes don't exist as he was forced to kill Doomsday. The "human" side of Doomsday, Davis, that he fought so hard to save ends up killing Jimmy, a man he called his friend.

It's not one person - it's every person he trusted has let him down or betrayed him. The one person who has never let him down is now gone and for all he knows, gone forever. Clark is disillusioned with the human race and why shouldn't he be?

Chloe lost nothing she wasn't willing to give up. When she decided the best course of action for her was harbouring and aiding a serial killer, she made that choice willingly. She chose to give up her relationship with Clark, Jimmy and Oliver to "help save" poor Davis.

Clark never chose to turn his back on Oliver, Chloe or Davis yet, in their own way, they chose to turn their back on him. As an end result, Lois is missing, presumed dead, and Jimmy is dead.

[Liquid-Prince]

That's a pretty shallow interpretation. Chloe betrayed/disillusioned him. Oliver betrayed/disillusioned him. Jimmy died because of it. His "never kill" principal was put to the test and realized that absolutes don't exist as he was forced to kill Doomsday. The "human" side of Doomsday, Davis, that he fought so hard to save ends up killing Jimmy, a man he called his friend.

It's not one person - it's every person he trusted has let him down or betrayed him. The one person who has never let him down is now gone and for all he knows, gone forever. Clark is disillusioned with the human race and why shouldn't he be?

Chloe lost nothing she wasn't willing to give up. When she decided the best course of action for her was harbouring and aiding a serial killer, she made that choice willingly. She chose to give up her relationship with Clark, Jimmy and Oliver to "help save" poor Davis.

Clark never chose to turn his back on Oliver, Chloe or Davis yet, in their own way, they chose to turn their back on him. As an end result, Lois is missing, presumed dead, and Jimmy is dead.

That's what I've been saying!

[Jack-El49]

That's what I've been saying!

Then you are indeed a wise and insightful person! :lol:

[KneelBeforeZod!]

I edited in more example up there. But that isn't the point. So what if he forgave them. The point is that he realized even his close friends are capable of doing such things, even if he is an influence on them. All that was left is if Pete ran in and T-Bagged Clark while he was fighting Doomsday.

ITA. Clark has had blow after blow this season reigned upon him. And now, after putting in so much effort to justify not killing Davis, taking lecture after lecture from Mr. Murderer Ollie Queen, a Texas-sized stabbing in the back from Chloe in the Fortress, giving her the benefit of the doubt and not sending Davis to the PZ, he has to live with this! Jimmy dead at the hands of the very loony he was trying to save!

I'm telling ya. Clark's gonna be a serious head case next season.

[Jack-El49]

I thought of that too. He's gonna have to do it in season nine. The producers are porbably sitting and smiling right now. When we first saw it, we didn't know what to think, but now there are so many possible situations. Holy cow.

If I was one of the two producers right now, I'd be eating Tums and drinking Pepto Bismol hoping that my stomach would settle down so that I could write my way out of the crap storm I started that could end up with the lowest season ratings in its 8+ year run.

[Liquid-Prince]

If I was one of the two producers right now, I'd be eating Tums and drinking Pepto Bismol hoping that my stomach would settle down so that I could write my way out of the crap storm I started that could end up with the lowest season ratings in its 8+ year run.

All they need is to write a good premiere and everything will make perfect sense for this finale. It's all on the premiere now.

[KneelBeforeZod!]

If I was one of the two producers right now, I'd be eating Tums and drinking Pepto Bismol hoping that my stomach would settle down so that I could write my way out of the crap storm I started that could end up with the lowest season ratings in its 8+ year run.

I would agree that the Lana arc threw the season off a bit, but crap storm? hardly. I keep saying that the writers made this season about the philosphy of human nature rather than an all out slugfest in the streets of Metropolis. They made us think about Chloe's actions, Ollie's actions, Clark's actions or inaction.

The final verdict? Nothing is written in black and white. There are plenty shades of gray. Clark needs time to wrap his mind around all that before he becomes Superman.

They clearly explained how Doomsday got underground in the first place also.

We all complain that Smallville deviates from the mythos too often, and yet when they line up with it, we want them to deviate so we can have our Superman/Doomsday fight and have it now!

I don't mind waiting until next season 9 (or dare I say season 10?:p). I think a Superman/Doomsday then would be a lot more credible. I'd understand and appreciate the killer punches a whole lot more having understood the back story from season 8.

(and in keeping with the title of the thread: yes, Clark is dead for now, metaphorically, not physically. He'll go through some stuff, do some soul searching, embrace his Kryptonian side too. But eventually, he'll discover that he needs both: His Krytonian toughness and his human compassion to be a true hero).

[Davis Bloome]

That Clark put his faith in the wrong person is his own mistake. And it's clear from the conversation that he made that decision based on one person, not others such as Oliver. He doesn't even mention them. And what should he do instead of giving up on everybody, learn from it. Clark bases his decisions on his emotions, while I don't agree with that. He bases it on morals which he has that every human is worth saving and so was Davis. But there was a side to Davis that was unknown to everybody, not just Clark. Nobody could expect that he suddenly would turn psycho. There was always a rational motif behind every murder Davis committed and it was always to prevent the beast from coming out. Now that the beast was gone, nobody could have ever known what, or who Davis would turn out to be. So it turned out he was a psycho after all. He killed Jimmy out of anger and jealousy.
And the decision of not facing your own humanity sounds a bit coward to me. Actions have consequences. Those actions based on your own morality take responsibility. If he going to cower away from that means he didn't want to take responsibility of those actions he took as a free man with his own will. If he is from now on going to base it on his own rules or that of Jor-El's, means that he is also not going to take responsibility for what he does, after all he is just following orders. The fact that the guilt he feels is too much for him, shows that he is afraid of the consequences he takes as a man with a free will and mind, which make him human. And now he wants to give that up.... Shame... Real shame...

[Liquid-Prince]

That Clark put his faith in the wrong person is his own mistake. And it's clear from the conversation that he made that decision based on one person, not others such as Oliver. He doesn't even mention them. And what should he do instead of giving up on everybody, learn from it. Clark bases his decisions on his emotions, while I don't agree with that. He bases it on morals which he has that every human is worth saving and so was Davis. But there was a side to Davis that was unknown to everybody, not just Clark. Nobody could expect that he suddenly would turn psycho. There was always a rational motif behind every murder Davis committed and it was always to prevent the beast from coming out. Now that the beast was gone, nobody could have ever known what, or who Davis would turn out to be. So it turned out he was a psycho after all. He killed Jimmy out of anger and jealousy.
And the decision of not facing your own humanity sounds a bit coward to me. Actions have consequences. Those actions based on your own morality take responsibility. If he going to cower away from that means he didn't want to take responsibility of those actions he took as a free man with his own will. If he is from now on going to base it on his own rules or that of Jor-El's, means that he is also not going to take responsibility for what he does, after all he is just following orders. The fact that the guilt he feels is too much for him, shows that he is afraid of the consequences he takes as a man with a free will and mind, which make him human. And now he wants to give that up.... Shame... Real shame...

He is manning up. He is detaching himself and going to become Superman. He may not be doing it in a way you think is right, but he is still doing something about it. And if you think his decision was based on just one person then you are being short sighted... There has been a build up of him feeling betrayed all season.

[Davis Bloome]

Really? I can see that, but the way he returns to Chloe in this episode like nothing happened. And then Oliver... accusing him of murder, then he later comes back. "Can I trust you?!"... Oliver says 'yes' and Clark leaves like 'No problemo...'
He left Oliver after accusing him of murder and then he just accepted what he did just because he needs his help? Clark was very forgiving in the episode especially to the JLA after stabbing him in the back. But I understand that desperate times take desperate measures. But Clark's decision here had nothing to do with other's betrayal as he easily forgave them because he needed them. The only one he actually brought up for his doubt in humanity was Davis.

[Liquid-Prince]

Really? I can see that, but the way he returns to Chloe in this episode like nothing happened. And then Oliver... accusing him of murder, then he later comes back. "Can I trust you?!"... Oliver says 'yes' and Clark leaves like 'No problemo...'
He left Oliver after accusing him of murder and then he just accepted what he did just because he needs his help? Clark was very forgiving in the episode especially to the JLA after stabbing him in the back. But I understand that desperate times take desperate measures. But Clark's decision here had nothing to do with other's betrayal as he easily forgave them because he needed them. The only one he actually brought up for his doubt in humanity was Davis.

He never said no problemo, in fact the look he gave Oliver after he said yes suggests that he didn't know if he could believe him, but since Doomsday was on a rampage he had no choice.

[Davis Bloome]

He never said no problemo
No but he surely acted that way... And I said I understood why, but the fact remains that he was looking besides the mistakes Oliver had made, just because he needed them, so his decision later had nothing to do with him, nor with Chloe.

[Liquid-Prince]

No but he surely acted that way... And I said I understood why, but the fact remains that he was looking besides the mistakes Oliver had made, just because he needed them, so his decision later had nothing to do with him, nor with Chloe.

No, you don't get what I meant. OBVIOUSLY he never said no problemo. I meant that if you look at the episode, the way he looked at Oliver after he said yes suggests that he didn't even know if he could believe him.

[Davis Bloome]

But what makes you think, he was so troubled about Oliver or Chloe or anyone else but Davis, during his conversation with Chloe in the ending. And even if they betrayed him, we're talking about a few important people in his life, who are still his friends and wanted to help him in the end, but still he decides to turn his back on them.

[Liquid-Prince]

But what makes you think, he was so troubled about Oliver or Chloe or anyone else but Davis, during his conversation with Chloe in the ending. And even if they betrayed him, we're talking about a few important people in his life, who are still his friends and wanted to help him in the end, but still he decides to turn his back on them.

Because he is the cause of one of his friends death. Grief isn't always logical, but that's just how it is.

[Davis Bloome]

I agree, but the best way as I said is to learn from your mistakes and take responsibility, not just turn your back to other people who made mistakes themselves and only tried to help. That's why I don't agree with Clark's actions in the end, but I'm sure he will return as Clark Kent, as himself in the next season.

[xrayvision]

My opinion is if this was a spectre, not the real person, he would have presented himself the way Chloe wanted to see him. I believe this is Clark. It is a Clark that feels all is lost; the only true link to humanity is missing/gone, those he trusted have at worst betrayed him and at best gravely disappointed him; that humanity in general is too emotional to be worthy of putting on a pedestal and that belief flies in the face of everything he had been taught by his parents and felt growing up. Clark got a dose of reality when the guy he was trying to save killed the guy who he had begun to admire and trust.

Clark was disillusioned with the human race and while searching for the one link to his humanity that has not let him down or betrayed his trust, he came to the realization that with her gone and no one else left to fit that bill, he is better off embracing his Kryptonian heritage.

The disappearing at the door was a metaphor meant to explain the Clark we've known has disappeared as a result of all that happened. He is alive but he no longer feels like he wants to be or can embrace his identity of Clark Kent and that identity vanished at the conclusion of the season.

Jack, I like & respect your passion for the Lois Lane character. I think you're taking her out of context though. Lois is not his only tie to the human race. He has Martha, had Jimmy, has Pete, and various others he befriended along the course of this show. In time, she will be his primary tie to humans since she will be a human he loves and sees most in his everyday life out of everyone else. But she hasn't reached that point yet. And Lois isn't the only one who hasn't betrayed him. Pete & Martha also fit that bill & are still alive. Every character except his parents have gotten themselves in trouble before & caused Clark headaches, including Lois (in Recruit & Spell) & Pete (in Velocity & Hero), but these 2 didn't backstab him. Chloe & Lana IMHO did betray him with various things they did behind his back.

More importantly, Lois never ever aligned or re-aligned Clark's/Superman's morals back to what they used to be in the comics. Sure in the Superman Red & Superman Blue storyline, something like this happened when the real Superman split into 2 Supermen that were both fighting for Lois and drifted apart and wanted to live their own lives and not merge into 1 Superman and Lois refused to be with either of them until they united. But even in that storyline, it wasn't until a huge threat emerged with the Millenium Giants that the 2 did not merge together. So even in that storyline, it was the 2 Supermen's love for the world that caused them to merge and become the original Superman again.

In the comics, Clark by his teens, way before he met Lois, was already Superman. He was Superman minus the suit. That's why in some versions we had Clark Kent as Superboy, because he embodied all the ideals that Superman did because they were instilled in him by Jonathan & Martha Kent. Prior to becoming Superman or meeting Lois, Clark traveled the world and saved many people he didn't even know & who weren't his friends. He saved them for his pure love of humanity and the goodness within them that inspires him.

The thing with Martha, Lois, Pete and all his other friends who know his secret is that they are inspired by his goodness and reflect it back on him so that he is inspired by them. That is the classic Superman dynamic, and we haven't seen too much of this and the point they left us at now, it's just totally absent. By making Clark re-align his morals because of Lois, Jor-El, Martha, or any other human, they are ruining the character and shifting him from the traits that define Superman. Sure, he may call himself Superman, but he will never be the real thing because the real Superman takes what was instilled in him & inspires others who in return keep inspiring him to do what he does. Lois was starting to get inspired by the RBB, but the chain of inspiration has been broken & it's up to Clark, not anyone else, to restore it.

HalJordan4184 described it very nicely in some of his posts:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3965717&postcount=57


So what I'm saying is that Clark in the mythos from the time the Kents taught & invoked in him the morals that they believed in, has had all the qualities of Superman. What Lois does is make him even better. Clark is like a superstar who is great in his own right and Lois is his steroid who just increases his performance to be even better than he would without her. Only in this case I'm not giving Lois being his "steroid" a negative connotation because it is all based on love. My main point is that Clark has to reach the superstar status first before he takes his Lois "steroid" because he clearly hasn't reached it. He shouldn't be failing as much as they have shown him failing since season 4.

HalJordan4184 made another great post that I read a while back that supports my points:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4415616&postcount=44


From that linked post, you can see how important Lois is. Even after Superman thought he lost Lois from what Manchester Black made it look like he killed Lois in cold blood (in an attempt like the Joker did with Commissioner Gordon to prove that everyone has a breaking point), Superman still refused to kill him because he thinks Lois would have never forgiven him. This shows that with or without Lois, Clark is still who his parents taught him to be and that Lois just continues to inspire the same goodness in him that his parents did whether Clark believed her to be alive, dead, or missing. Clark in Doomsday did not act like that.

Here are quotes from some earlier posts of what I really think should be done:

I guess we'll have to see what happens. I will stick to my guns and believe Clark is dead like Rokk said he would die.

At the same time, once Clark starts murdering people like Oliver did to Lex, he will lose any opportunity of ever becoming the iconic character. Clark never had a kill villians mentality before he became Superman.

Considering Lois is MIA, I think there's a small possibility that Jonathan will guide him back to the right frame of mind, though knowing TPTB they will probably have it be Chloe (:rolleyes:). I think Jonathan/Chloe will give a similar speech heard in Void, but this time focus more on the good in humans and Clark's past mistakes and just like JK warned him of Lionel knowing his secret & him having to protect Martha & the world, it will be JK/Chloe telling him that he needs to find/save Lois & protect the world. And from then on, he will watch Lois closer than he has in the past and protect humanity from a distance.

After all, his big problem as seen with Lana was not realizing her flaws. That was his biggest problem. Even though Lana brought it up herself in Accelerate that one day he would see the flaws in her, he never did. He continued to have the same problem with Chloe, especially with what she did in Beast. He continued to believe that Chloe was innocent in the whole thing. Had he kept a distance from Chloe & Lana, he would have realized that both needed help. This is what Clark has to learn--to see the best yet keep a distance.

And here's another one:

Actually the mythos isn't like that route. The mythos had Superman & Doomsday killing each other in battle. Superman was dead & his spirit was roaming the Earth and Jonathan made contact with him and brought him back to his body. While he was gone, the Eradicator (device) possessed a body that was made for it in the Fortress and became a Kryptonian like Superman, with various differences (his eyes were sensitive to visible light making him wear the yellow visor) and some powers were different.

So having Clark live, not having his spirit wander Earth, not having his spirit make contact with Jonathan (or in this case Jonathan's spirit), and not having the Eradicator do the hero work while Clark is dead would be disobeying the mythos.

Lois is an important factor in his tie to humanity, but after his death it was Jonathan who really brought him back and had to because after all Jonathan & his morals make him Superman.

In my opinion, they should have Jonathan (his spirit anyway) be the one in Smallville to bring him back to humanity & have Lois be his continuous tie with humanity after Jonathan's spirit's presence leaves. But they should not make Lois be his reason for saving humans, because that would be a monumental mistake. Clark loved & saved humans well before he met Lois...back when he was travelling the world before he became Superman he was helping people he didn't know & saving them from evil, disease, and many other things.

They need to show that:

1. Clark still loves & sees the best in humans on his own after Jonathan brings his spirit back to reunite with his body and fixes the current mentality he has

2. Clark will keep an emotional seperation from humans so that he doesn't consider himself one of them and can realize when they have to be saved (since this recognition can't happen when he's too close to them)

3. Clark having Lois as his main human with whom he does share an emotional attachment


This will work because he wouldn't have to worry about Lois backstabbing him and the dual identity will protect Lois from his enemies.

The bottom line is they have to tread very carefully to not have him become Superman based on Jor-El's desires, based on his feelings for Lois, or anything else other than what he learned his entire life from his parents. Because that has always made Superman who he is. The moment they make him become Superman for someone else is the moment that he will be Superman by name only and not the iconic character from the comics.


Also, I just don't think Clark got out of that geothermal hole. We know the explosion didn't kill Doomsday because he already died by explosion in Eternal. So something had to have happened to keep Doomsday in the hole. The things I can think of are:

1. Clark & Doomsday killed each other
2. Clark & Doomsday are still in the hole fighting
3. Some black-k in the hole caused Clark to split off into Kal-El & Clark Kent & Doomsday killed his CK side while Kal-El is still alive somewhere

There's no logical way a creature as unstoppable as Doomsday is trapped in the hole while the actual Clark Kent got out. Doomsday would have also escaped. Along with Rokk's warning, this is why I think the person who seemed to be Clark at the end talking to Chloe was either his spirit (if they killed each other in the hole), or the Eradicator (if Clark & DD killed each other or are still fighting in the hole). Or maybe we saw a lower energy ghost form of Clark's CK side as a result of Doomsday killing him.

----- Added 16 Minutes later -----

Another thing I wanted to mention is that if it was the real CK at the end, why didn't he notice that the Legion ring was missing when he went looking for Lois? I would think that given the visit Rokk paid him, he would have gone to make sure the ring was still where he left it.