Dollhouse #1.1 "Ghost"

[Mars Investigations]

Just under two months until Dollhouse debuts on 13th February 2009! :D A little premature, I know, but I am so psyched for this show.

[Hopefulsuicide]

i'm right there with you... watched every snippet or interview i can get my hand on... there is surprisingly little out there...

just bought SFX (english magazine) that has Dollhouse on the front. i'll transcribe it when i've read it.

can't wait! Joss is BACK!

[obsessedwithsv]

What's Dollhouse? I'll go to IMDb for a butcher's. But whatever it is I'm sure it's awesome if Whedon's behind it!

[Ginx]

I hope it works out and it shows when it's supposed to. It looks interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollhouse_(TV_series)

[obsessedwithsv]

Looks interesting! And Eliza Dushku's the lead! Cool!

Sounds a bit like Dark Angel or something like that. I'm sure it will have more meat to it's storyline and will hopefully last longer.

[Hopefulsuicide]

i'm actually hoping it is a bit like alias/dark angel as i think both of those shows were highly intelligent and enjoyable with great dialogues

but at the end of the day i feel like with Joss i am in safe hands. i dont worry at all that i wont like it, because i simply trust him...

... god imagine the pain if i'm wrong :lol:

[obsessedwithsv]

They'd never cut off a show by Joss Whedon 'cause he's so widely recognised as a genius now. The network would look stupid. They could give it a bigger budget, only upto $2 mil. an epi. it says, I think Smallville gets like $4/5 mil. an epi. Maybe they don't need as many special effects *shrugs*

Can't wait for it now that I've been alerted to it. Thanks guys!! :D

[Hopefulsuicide]

well i think he was pretty widely recognised when they cut off firefly...

... and they already looked stupid for that!

[stump69]

Good premise for a storyline, excellent producer in Joss Whedon PLUS the beauteous Eliza Dushku (Tru Calling). Also a blessing for this show is the lead-in from Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles that should keep the sci-fi fans hap-hap-happy!

[AngelaV]

I've just rewatched Firefly and the movie to tie up the show. I do hope Joss knows what he is doing going beck to Fox. I do hope Fox airs the episodes in bloody order! In special features I caught how Fox thought the pilot 2 parter wasn't good enough so Train Job was written in 2 days and used instead. I think the Fox people were sleeping because the pilot was just right.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I hope Fox has learned their lesson about Joss... i mean are they just dense... here is a man who created a whole universe that's cult popularity to astounding considering the premise was a pretty blonde thing kicking demon butt... his characters are so popular that Angel's spin off series lasted 5 seasons... that is a great achievement!

then he goes on to a totally different fantasy forum - space. and creates a unique and brilliant show with great characters... and they drop it after 11 episodes... only to watch him go on to make an incredibly popular movie out of it (Jonathon Ross called it the best film of 2006)

Now he is back again, with again a new fantasy premise - one of 'an instutution' which i expect will be full of the conspiracy of Alias, and the need to find yourself of Dark Angel, as well as Joss's wonderful wit... if they don't have the sense to let this series take flight, i'm going to be sending some angry letters :lol:

[Mars Investigations]

February 13th can't come soon enough...

[drew-crypto84]

I'm keeping an open mind about this show and Eliza Dushku is one of my favourite actresses, considering it's on FOX and it's habit of axing TV shows with female leads I will not hold my breath on how long it may last.

[KryptonSite]

10 days!

[Hopefulsuicide]

YAY!

[obsessedwithsv]

Guess it's about 9 days now then, lol. Should be good, eagerly awaiting Feb. 13th. Oooh, that's Friday 13th, creepy, but also half-term. Woop! Friday 13th's awesome!

[Hopefulsuicide]

I hope friday the 13th isn't an omen in the 'cancelled after 11 episodes' form...

God give this one a chance, please.

[obsessedwithsv]

I'm sure it'll be fine *hopes & prays*

I need more Joss Whedon!

[Hopefulsuicide]

i know, i feel like all other television shows are always going to be second best

simply no one does it like he does it :)

[obsessedwithsv]

He's definitely unique in his way of thinking. Everything he does is so innovative and refreshing, he can turn an episode on it's head in a split second. I like how every character is different and has their own little quirks, that's what I'm looking forward to the most; getting to know the characters.

[Hopefulsuicide]

definately

i can honestly say that in the entire of Buffy/Angel/Firefly there is not a single episode that i dislike... cause even when there is a plot that i don't like or don't agree with, it is done in a brilliant way, and the actors never get lazy and the writers stay witty and intense

[obsessedwithsv]

Agreed. Even if the story arc is a bit crazy you've always got really good dialogue to fall back on and the acting's always good.

[LiLViLLiaN]

I saw clippings of this show! It looks good. :) I use to be dedicated fan to Alias. I read about this show and it mentioned they have "handlers" so sounds a bit like that. I will tune in for this one!

[Yoshua]

Doll house on friday right?

Can't wait. I was torn a bit between this and Friday the 13th but this won out. Jared and Jason can wait till saturday.

[Hopefulsuicide]

ahhhhh 4 days left if you dont count what's left of today!!!!

[Mars Investigations]

:D

[Hopefulsuicide]

3 days left, not counting tonight!!!!!!

can i just sleep until then?... i know i know, i gotta do my uni work... but i want DOLLHOUSE!!!!

yay, Joss is back :)

god i think i've gone a little nutsy already! :D

[Demien]

2 Days, 19 Hours, 27 Minutes Until "Ghost"

[kraziekatie]

I love Joss Whedon and Eliza Dusku so I'm giving this show a try; however, I'm not all excited about this program airing on Fridays as I'm usually out during the evenings, and I don't want to have to schedule my personal life around a show. Been there, done that in the past and it ain't pretty! ;)

[Hopefulsuicide]

I can't believe this thread was started two months ago! Seems like just yesterday!

In fact, it seems like just yesterday that i find out about the show, and yet here we are, the day before it airs... i can hardly breathe i'm so excited!!!!!

That's the POWER OF JOSS! :lol:

[lauraforever]

Cannot wait for this series.

[WickedJenn]

Eliza's on Conan right now talking about the show, it sounds so awesome.

[Vergon6]

I can't wait to see this. Hopefully it's good :).

[SparkleforSmallville]

Yay! Dollhouse Tonight!

and Terminator returns! It's going to be a great Friday the 13th!:lol:

[Vergon6]

Cross your fingers for a good show.

[WickedJenn]

I have it on now :)

[Dezdmona]

Joss likes his Chinese references, eh?

[Vergon6]

She doesn't realize she is about to be mind-wiped.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

I thought Amy Acker was supposed to be on the show. Did she get added and then removed when they did one of their many retooled pilots?

[WickedJenn]

It just said her name as a guest star I think...

[Randy G.]

I'm accidentally watching this because it was on right after Sarah Connor.

It looks good so far, so I guess I'll give it a chance. ;)

[Vergon6]

It just said her name as a guest star I think...
And I see she is on the show after all. I guess she will be a recurring guest star.

[WickedJenn]

Woah, guy who played Wes in "Prototype".

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

Ooh she's wearing Christian Leboutin heels.

Sorry, girly observation.

[KryptonSite]

I believe Amy Acker will be a recurring guest star.

ETA: Oops, Vergon beat me to it :)

[Randy G.]

When she saw that flash that was supposed to have been erased, it instantly made me think that the writers are implementing an element from NBC's "My Own Worst Enemy."

[WickedJenn]

I was wondering that too ^

[Randy G.]

By adding that same flaw, it adds an element of uncertainty to the mix.
That was what drew me to My Own Worst Enemy.

[WickedJenn]

Ugh I hope they get to this girl soon enough.

[Vergon6]

It's pretty interesting how she was given the memory of an abused girl that had a connection with one of the kidnappers. Are these real people's memories that have been inserted into her mind though?

[WickedJenn]

It's pretty interesting how she was given the memory of an abused girl that had a connection with one of the kidnappers. Are these real people's memories that have been inserted into her mind though?

Yes, I think that techie guy said that they were personalities of real people.

[Randy G.]

I believe so David, even though I don't fully understand it yet.

Yes, I think that techie guy said that they were personalities of real people.

They said "persona" they "developed."
By "developed", they evidently mean they "duplicate" a personality, as well as real life memories, from a real person.

I just realized that Laurence Dominic guy is Reed Diamond.
He played Dan's brother Jack on Journeyman. :cool:

[WickedJenn]

I believe so David, even though I don't fully understand it yet.

I just realized that Laurence Dominic guy is Reed Diamond.
He played Dan's brother Jack on Journeyman. :cool:

Yeah I recognized him too.

Did you see "Wes" from "Prototype"? Heh.

[Vergon6]

Yeah, I noticed both of them. The other night, I think it was on Law & Order, the woman playing a NJ prosecutor played Dan's wife on Journeyman.

[Randy G.]

Yeah, Gretchen Egolf played Katie Vasser.

She was also on NBC's "Medium" last season. :)

[Vergon6]

What is confusing is how Echo would not be recognized by anybody, especially considering how many personas she will take on.

[WickedJenn]

What is confusing is how Echo would not be recognized by anybody, especially considering how many personas she will take on.

Yeah I was wondering that too.

I like this show so far, I think it has potential.

[Vergon6]

Who was it that was watching her college video? I thought it might be the FBI agent, but I don't remember him being shot. Boy I missed "Grrrr...Arrrggggh", that was great.

Yes, this show has potential. I was a big fan of Buffy and Angel, but I'm one of the few Whedon fans that never got into Firefly.

[WickedJenn]

Who was it that was watching her college video? I thought it might be the FBI agent, but I don't remember him being shot. Boy I missed the "Grrrr...Arrrggggh"!

LOL I missed that too! I totally forgot about that.

I'm not sure, but they sure killed people...

[Randy G.]

Yeah I was wondering that too.

I like this show so far, I think it has potential.

I was thinking about that as well. Maybe each assignment will take her to a variety of locations. Either that or they will allow it to catch up with her.That's what the scenes for future episodes seemed to hint. At least that's what I took from them.

Who were the murdered people in the floor? Her parents?
Was the dude watching her old college video, the same guy we see that is holding the bow on her in the previews?

[Vergon6]

So many questions...all will be revealed in time I imagine.

[dru-zod2501]

quite reminiscent of My Own Worst Enemy, but I liked that one better. Nothing wrong with pretty girls, but it will take more than this to hook me

[Shadowlord367]

Dollhouse = brilliance.

I loved the underlying themes of identity, humanitarianism, and all that stuff. Very cool stuff. Not beaten over the head with it, but still very present.

Writing was clever and compelling, and I think the "less commercials, more TV" thing definately helps a show like Dollhouse. Nothing interrupts momentum like a long boring commercial break, no matter how strong the cliffhangers are.

I loved the look of the show, had a colorful vibrant look to it.

It's also cool how all the actives are named "Alpha" and "Echo" like that radio thingy.

I'm looking forward to seeing more, though I'm concerned it's more episodic than serialized.

[redraven]

Dollhouse was great, lived up to my expectations. It kept my interest piqued through out and the pace was never too slow.

Oh and Eliza is just so ridiculously sexy that I would watch even if the writing was bad, but it's not, so that makes the show one that I will probably never miss week after week. I'm so excited to see the next episode.

[cousteau]

I'm sorry, that was boring all the way through. I disagree with the assessment above; if the show had been any slower, it would have been crawling.

[KryptonSite]

I'm going to agree with cousteau for the most part. I gave up on it around the mid-point and by then only had it on as background noise. The motorcycle race thing was exciting but that was about it.

Unless I hear an episode is going to be good, I'm going to skip it from here on out.

[Serynarpc]

Who was it that was watching her college video? I thought it might be the FBI agent, but I don't remember him being shot. Boy I missed "Grrrr...Arrrggggh", that was great.

Yes, this show has potential. I was a big fan of Buffy and Angel, but I'm one of the few Whedon fans that never got into Firefly.

I thought it was the agent too, but my boyfriend pointed out that his build was a bit different. Might be the camera angles but with all of the dead bodies lying around, I sure hope the FBI guy isn't a Dexter - citus.

I didn't get into FF until after Angel and Buffy ended and I was whining for Joss's work and my friends clued me in :)

[CallMeClark]

I absolutely love it. I am so interested in the entire premise. I can't wait to see how that naked guy plays out in the whole storyline. I am assuming he is the rogue doll they were all talking about in the preview. And dayum! did you see Topher's body in that boxing sequence?

I have to say, I am extremely interested in the show, but the pilot was not great as a pilot. It makes me wonder what the pilot was like before Joss had to re-write it.

[TMLS]

I thought it was the agent too, but my boyfriend pointed out that his build was a bit different. Might be the camera angles but with all of the dead bodies lying around, I sure hope the FBI guy isn't a Dexter - citus.

I didn't get into FF until after Angel and Buffy ended and I was whining for Joss's work and my friends clued me in :)

Wasn't he sending the photo to the agent? Hence the "keep looking" on it. Would kinda rule it out being him if so ;)

Anyway - whilst it didn't have the "oomph" of the Firefly pilot that dragged you in, it was a decent show. It didn't feel like a "Joss" show to me, but even if it wasn't his I'd still be watching. It's a great concept and it was well executed - I don't think the storyline was the best though, but it at least it set out to show that the Dolls aren't just ass-kicking assassins or whatnot. It's promising. :)

[redraven]

I'm sorry, that was boring all the way through. I disagree with the assessment above; if the show had been any slower, it would have been crawling.

Okay, maybe my judgement was a bit blurred by how exhausted I was in the first place...but it wasn't boring the whole way. At least I didn't think so.

[Yoshua]

I loved it, but I am into shows other than typical sci-fi too.

Any news on ratings or when they will come out?


I knew before hand that there was going to be a 'problem' with echo remembering things, it is sorta like My Own Worst Enemy meets the Matrix.


Believable if you don't mind suspending your disbelief that this technology doesn't exist yet. May have worked better if they had put this time frame in about 200 years in the future, but then they would have to deal with the set budgets and what not.

[Fat Elvis 007]

It was very uneven, I thought, especially Dushku's acting. I loved her as Faith, but I am starting to wonder if she has enough range and depth to tackle other characters. There were moments in her "Eleanore" persona that I just didn't buy at all. Plus, it was missing that classic Whedonesque dialogue. There were a few good lines, but nothing all that memorable. I think my favorite part was just seeing the Mutant Enemy logo at the end, LOL. But I will stick with it because it's Joss, and I have faith that this can improve. I just no longer expect it to live up to the heights of Buffy, Angel, and Firefly.

[Xanderman]

I'm with cousteau and Craig on this one. That was a bad pilot. Maybe bad isn't the right word...the word I'm looking for is actually "lame". That was soooo, so very lame. No wonder it got stuck Friday (ie. "death night"). But that could just be because somebody at Fox has a grudge against Whedon...I mean they did the same thing to his Firefly, the difference there though was that show was great from day one.

I think Joss is a little too in love with Dushku. I really think they should have went with an unknown, a new face. But, as per tv.com:

"Joss Whedon and Eliza Dushku first discussed the idea for the series while meeting over lunch to talk about Eliza's career."

Ugh. Well doesn't that say it all.

Finally, for subjecting the world to this truly dreadful pilot, I think Joss should do the only honorable thing, and fire himself. heh But in all seriousness, I've seen bad pilots before for shows I ended up liking, so I'll continue to give the poorly named "Dollhouse" a chance. I mean I know Joss is capable of better than this. That said, if he considered this his "A" game, then there is no hope for this show. I can only hope he was as disgusted with it as I was.

[Fat Elvis 007]

I think Joss is a little too in love with Dushku. I really think they should have went with an unknown, a new face. But, as per tv.com:



I think Amy Acker or Summer Glau would have both been better fits. So it doesn't help that Amy is on the show as a different character and Summer is on right before this.

[Pamela]

I liked it overall, and I will watch it next week. I do agree with some of the comments that it was a bit disappointing. I would have liked to see more of Echo's background and what made her agree to work for the dollhouse program. We still don't know if she knew exactly "what" they would be doing to her. Having said that, I think the writers are planning to reveal more about the real Echo little by little.

Did anyone notice the scars on the face of Amy Acker's character? I can't wait to find out more about this character's past.

[Tabularasa]

Dollhouse pulled in 4.7 million viewers. That's more then what Sarah Connor did, but Fox usually pulls in about 5 million for a Friday night. If the numbers stay constant then it should be okay. If it goes down, it'll probably be on the chopping block.

[lauraforever]

It was amazing!!!

[KryptonSite]

I'm with cousteau and Craig on this one. That was a bad pilot. Maybe bad isn't the right word...the word I'm looking for is actually "lame". That was soooo, so very lame. No wonder it got stuck Friday (ie. "death night"). But that could just be because somebody at Fox has a grudge against Whedon...I mean they did the same thing to his Firefly, the difference there though was that show was great from day one.

I think Joss is a little too in love with Dushku. I really think they should have went with an unknown, a new face. But, as per tv.com:

"Joss Whedon and Eliza Dushku first discussed the idea for the series while meeting over lunch to talk about Eliza's career."

Ugh. Well doesn't that say it all.

Finally, for subjecting the world to this truly dreadful pilot, I think Joss should do the only honorable thing, and fire himself. heh But in all seriousness, I've seen bad pilots before for shows I ended up liking, so I'll continue to give the poorly named "Dollhouse" a chance. I mean I know Joss is capable of better than this. That said, if he considered this his "A" game, then there is no hope for this show. I can only hope he was as disgusted with it as I was.

I disagree. I think Eliza Dushku was the best thing Dollhouse had going for it... even though that first scene was pretty terrible and looked like an audition... and there would be no show without ED. I would LOVE to see her in a project that was actually good.

I think Joss Whedon's only mistake was agreeing to become involved with this show and this concept. I just don't think it worked.

[Fat Elvis 007]

even though that first scene was pretty terrible and looked like an audition...

I had that feeling throughout almost the entire show. The writing, acting, and even directing all felt kind of lazy, as if it were an unfinished product. It didn't "pop," for me.

[Vergon6]

I had that feeling throughout almost the entire show. The writing, acting, and even directing all felt kind of lazy, as if it were an unfinished product. It didn't "pop," for me.
I think some of the issues with the pilot may have had to do with Joss Whedon having to rework the pilot a few times. I'm not sure though. And maybe in the end it will prove too ambitious of a project. We will have to see. I still think the show has potential though.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I am so excited about this show.

I can understand some of the negative opinion. I at times thought Eliza's acting wasn't up to par, and am also afraid that Joss may love her a little too much (much like almiles love of kristen kreuk). It was a little strange to have a Joss show where the script was basically comedyless, though i am hoping that may improve.

But even if it doesn't gain any comedy aspects i will deal, because i see this show as having this enormous amount of potential, especially after seeing the pilot, to become something like Alias, X-files, or Dark Angel.

Let me explain what i loved most about it.

1. It is gonna be an emotional rollercoaster... going from a girl with a crush, to then pondering whether or not her happiness is a good thing or in fact part of something much more sinister. then on to a difficult issue like child abuse, which was handled in much the same way as it was on Angel season 5. it pulled at all my heart strings. had me connecting with echo from the first minute.

I already care about echo. I already see that as she remembers more and more, i am going to connect with her more and more.

2. The questions - so from the first minute we have questions which the series is going to answer along the way. Who where they before they became dolls? How did the people who work there get involved in it? Who is Alpha? And what happened to him? Why is Echo remembering things and will she remember her past life?

And beyond this, goes my imagination. Just try and see where this season is heading... we start with episodes that are self contained but tease us with tidbits of info. Each week, echo is a new person and there is a new story, but each week we get a little bit closer to the answers to those questions... as the series continues, as with shows like supernatural, the episodes will become more connected, things will start to lead on more.

The more complicated this world that Echo lives in gets, the more answers we get, the more questions we will have. And i even see as far as 2 or 3 series down the line, if Echo has joined forces with this rebel... if she remembers everything, and is trying to bring down the Dollhouse. People from her past are involved... perhaps and brother or a sister ends up as a doll and she wants to try and get them out.

See what i mean about my imagination!? And that's just from 40 minutes worth of stimulous... and you know what makes me even more excited? Joss has an even better imagination than me... well way better :lol:

I'm so damn excited!!!!!!

----- Added 25 Minutes later -----

i think i might go write some Dollhouse fan fiction :lol:

anyone know how i can help make sure this show isn't axed... it's premise means it needs at least a second season in order for it to truly reach it's potential

[Xanderman]

I think Joss Whedon's only mistake was agreeing to become involved with this show and this concept. I just don't think it worked.Wasn't it his idea though? He's listed as its creator...either way it didn't work for me either. Hopefully it gets better...

I think Amy Acker or Summer Glau would have both been better fits. So it doesn't help that Amy is on the show as a different character and Summer is on right before this.I'm not convinced of Summer's range though...she played a somewhat "emotionless"/withdrawn character on Firefly, and on TSCC she's playing a robot, lol. Have you seen her in anything else? (I haven't.) As for Amy, she's cute and all but I'm not sure she's a better choice than Dushku...hmmm. I haven't seen Angel in a long time so I can't recall her acting there too well, or whether she has the strength or "presence" that a good lead needs in spades.

Joss may love her a little too much (much like almiles love of kristen kreuk).I thought the same thing. Right down to the AlMiles/KK thing. heh But it wasn't just Al & Miles, it was EVERYONE who was ever involved with the show, lol. I'll always remember what Ryan/vyperman once said, that in a dvd extra, every writer said that Lana was their favorite character to write for. Translation: Kristin Kreuk please please pleeeeeease marry me and have my children. lol

i see this show as having this enormous amount of potential, especially after seeing the pilot, to become something like Alias, X-files, or Dark Angel.I don't really see the X-files similarity, but Dark Angel for sure, along with Alias even though I wasn't a fan of that. Yoshua described a similarity as "My Own Worst Enemy meets the Matrix" above...I also see that. (I didn't watch Worst Enemy though, guess I'm not generally a fan of the "spy" genre...which is probably why Chuck never really appealed to me either.)

Speaking of The Matrix, the guy who hated Morpheus in those films is Echo's bodyguard here of course, lol. And of course the whole "loading" a person's brain with skills/talents thing is similar, except here it's connected to memories of a real person. And because of that fact, I keep waiting for Richter and Cohaagen to show up...

Cohaagen: I just spoke with Lori. She says Echo can't remember jack s***.
Richter: That's now. In an hour she could have total recall. :lol:

Also elements of The Island are here, with the innocent "dolls" being sort of like the innocent clones of that film. (love that movie)

And of course, we've got some The Pretender in the mix, with the idea of somebody that can be anybody. Clearly she's going to be somebody different every week, sort of like the Pretender.

And since Dollhouse is paired with TSCC, I can't help but see (or rather find) similarities there too, heh. Such as the whole FBI side plot, where an agent is looking into the Dollhouse case. A Mulder-esque agent who "believes" even when nobody else does. TSCC has/had Ellison, Dollhouse has Ballard. And of course, The X-Files had the most Mulder-esque Mulder of them all--Dana Scully I mean Fox Mulder. lol (well I guess there IS some X-files going on here too afterall, you were right. heh)

And as I mentioned, I don't think Dollhouse was the smartest name for the show, given that on the surface it sounds like a children's show or something, with puppets and balloons and cake. But that's just Joss being cheeky/cute I guess. There is such a thing as "too" cheeky...such fun with names is fine for episodes, but not for a series' actual name I don't think. I would have called it "Echo" or "Tru Echo" or "Echo the Identity Slayer" or "It's Not Dark Angel But It's the Best We Could Come Up With So Just Chill", but that's just me. lol)

Anyway, the series has potential, as long as they realize their first offering was far from great.

[Superboy2]

I thought it was good but I have a feeling it will get cancelled. I liked Drive, Black Donnellys, New Amsterdam and Bionic Woman and all those shows got cancelled.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I'm not convinced of Summer's range though...she played a somewhat "emotionless"/withdrawn character on Firefly, and on TSCC she's playing a robot, lol. Have you seen her in anything else? (I haven't.) As for Amy, she's cute and all but I'm not sure she's a better choice than Dushku...hmmm. I haven't seen Angel in a long time so I can't recall her acting there too well, or whether she has the strength or "presence" that a good lead needs in spades.

I agree, i think that perhaps an unknown could have been better, but Eliza is a better choice than Summer or Amy. Though at least Amy has shown a differing acting range from Fred to Illyria (as well as a villain on Alias).


I thought the same thing. Right down to the AlMiles/KK thing. heh But it wasn't just Al & Miles, it was EVERYONE who was ever involved with the show, lol. I'll always remember what Ryan/vyperman once said, that in a dvd extra, every writer said that Lana was their favorite character to write for. Translation: Kristin Kreuk please please pleeeeeease marry me and have my children. lol


:lol: i just hope that shakes off when we get to know all the other characters :)


I don't really see the X-files similarity, but Dark Angel for sure, along with Alias even though I wasn't a fan of that. Yoshua described a similarity as "My Own Worst Enemy meets the Matrix" above...I also see that. (I didn't watch Worst Enemy though, guess I'm not generally a fan of the "spy" genre...which is probably why Chuck never really appealed to me either.)

Speaking of The Matrix, the guy who hated Morpheus in those films is Echo's bodyguard here of course, lol. And of course the whole "loading" a person's brain with skills/talents thing is similar, except here it's connected to memories of a real person. And because of that fact, I keep waiting for Richter and Cohaagen to show up...

Cohaagen: I just spoke with Lori. She says Echo can't remember jack s***.
Richter: That's now. In an hour she could have total recall. :lol:

Also elements of The Island are here, with the innocent "dolls" being sort of like the innocent clones of that film. (love that movie)

And of course, we've got some The Pretender in the mix, with the idea of somebody that can be anybody. Clearly she's going to be somebody different every week, sort of like the Pretender.

And since Dollhouse is paired with TSCC, I can't help but see (or rather find) similarities there too, heh. Such as the whole FBI side plot, where an agent is looking into the Dollhouse case. A Mulder-esque agent who "believes" even when nobody else does. TSCC has/had Ellison, Dollhouse has Ballard. And of course, The X-Files had the most Mulder-esque Mulder of them all--Dana Scully I mean Fox Mulder. lol (well I guess there IS some X-files going on here too afterall, you were right. heh)

And as I mentioned, I don't think Dollhouse was the smartest name for the show, given that on the surface it sounds like a children's show or something, with puppets and balloons and cake. But that's just Joss being cheeky/cute I guess. There is such a thing as "too" cheeky...such fun with names is fine for episodes, but not for a series' actual name I don't think. I would have called it "Echo" or "Tru Echo" or "Echo the Identity Slayer" or "It's Not Dark Angel But It's the Best We Could Come Up With So Just Chill", but that's just me. lol)

Anyway, the series has potential, as long as they realize their first offering was far from great.

It's kinda nice and reassuring having so many popular ideas in the mix... makes me feel like it actually has a chance of survival. :)

p.s. was just watching the episode again, and does anyone think there is something off about the music? who's the score by?

also, i'm really missing the comedy now. especially in scenes with Topher, who is so obviously a 'Wash' like character and has the possibility of being that kind of funny.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

favourite line so far

Echo: Something fell on me
Topher: I bet it was something great! :)

[actaeon]

Hell's bells, I missed it! Never want to miss anything by Joss... I really need to pay more attention to TV scheduling.

On "Dollhouse" being a lame title, reminds me a little of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer".

[Yoshua]

...

I'm not convinced of Summer's range though...she played a somewhat "emotionless"/withdrawn character on Firefly, and on TSCC she's playing a robot, lol. Have you seen her in anything else? (I haven't.) As for Amy, she's cute and all but I'm not sure she's a better choice than Dushku...hmmm. I haven't seen Angel in a long time so I can't recall her acting there too well, or whether she has the strength or "presence" that a good lead needs in spades.
...



Pick up the 4400 episodes that she is listed in. She plays a paranoid schizophrenic with episodes of delusions.

Who has the ability to force anyone she wants to do anything she wants for as long as she wants.


She has a range, but I agree that I don't know what that is. But she defiantely has moments of lucidness and joy and sadness in the 4400 that is a good showcase of her talents.

[Fat Elvis 007]

I'm not convinced of Summer's range though...she played a somewhat "emotionless"/withdrawn character on Firefly, and on TSCC she's playing a robot, lol. Have you seen her in anything else? (I haven't.)

No, I haven't, but she already knows how to play the "blank slate" that Echo will have to be for the first few episodes, and I didn't think Dushku did that very well.

As for Amy, she's cute and all but I'm not sure she's a better choice than Dushku...hmmm. I haven't seen Angel in a long time so I can't recall her acting there too well, or whether she has the strength or "presence" that a good lead needs in spades.

Well, she played both Fred and Illyria on "Angel," two characters that couldn't possibly be any more different, and did a very good job of convincing me that she was two different people. Then on "Alias," she played a completely different character than both of them and did great. So I get the feeling that she has more of a range and would be better suited to play a different character each week. It's too soon to tell whether it was Dushku's fault or my own, but I just couldn't help but see her as Faith the whole time I was watching the pilot, rather than buying her as a separate character.

I thought the same thing. Right down to the AlMiles/KK thing. heh But it wasn't just Al & Miles, it was EVERYONE who was ever involved with the show, lol. I'll always remember what Ryan/vyperman once said, that in a dvd extra, every writer said that Lana was their favorite character to write for. Translation: Kristin Kreuk please please pleeeeeease marry me and have my children. lol


Really? I've always heard them say that Chloe was their favorite to write for, while they praised Lana mostly for her beauty and star quality.

And as I mentioned, I don't think Dollhouse was the smartest name for the show, given that on the surface it sounds like a children's show or something, with puppets and balloons and cake. But that's just Joss being cheeky/cute I guess. There is such a thing as "too" cheeky...such fun with names is fine for episodes, but not for a series' actual name I don't think. I would have called it "Echo" or "Tru Echo" or "Echo the Identity Slayer" or "It's Not Dark Angel But It's the Best We Could Come Up With So Just Chill", but that's just me. lol)

Well, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" was a strange title too, and you're right, those things do turn certain people off. I, on the other hand, see it as a crucial part of the subversive brilliance of both shows.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

I agree, i think that perhaps an unknown could have been better, but Eliza is a better choice than Summer or Amy. Though at least Amy has shown a differing acting range from Fred to Illyria (as well as a villain on Alias).

I don't know why, but I feel like I would have bought Summer or Amy better as the hostage negotiator. Maybe because they seem nerdier or more professional, while Eliza gives off that party girl vibe. But again, that might just be because I'm so used to seeing her as Faith.

p.s. was just watching the episode again, and does anyone think there is something off about the music? who's the score by?


At times it did seem a bit cheesy.

also, i'm really missing the comedy now. especially in scenes with Topher, who is so obviously a 'Wash' like character and has the possibility of being that kind of funny.

I guess he is a little Wash-like, but without any of Wash's good qualities. He really screamed "Warren" to me. The guy seemed like a psychopath. Though he did have some funny lines.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I know what you mean by seeing her as faith, and i think that might be why i find her as anyone else a bit off... i mean when the episodes started and she said something about trying to make a difference in the world because that's what SHE said... well my fannish whedon mind went 'maybe the SHE is BUFFY!'... even though i knew it was insane... but i just kept thinking... how cool would it be if this was actually FAITH!!!!!

:lol:

As for the wash thing, it's again me imagining what Topher would have been like if played by Alan Tudyk.... and i think it would have been better

but as with all things joss whedon chooses, i will give this actor a chance to impress me :)

[Chlarkrocks]

So, guys does that mean your against Dollhouse because it was MUCH the Tru Calling, but I want to see Echo be kind of like Faith in a episode in the future!

[Exodus2000]

I was highly unimpressed with the episode. Eliza Dushku's character was the highlight of the show....and it was mediocre at best. There was nothing in the episode that....when it ended it made me want to come back next week and see what happens. No characters stood out. I dont even remember anyones names. The storyline was....*shrugs*. After 3/4 of the episode....I thought..."Well i have already watched this much...might as well watch the rest (hoping for something spectactular), but was left shaking my head in disappointment. I cant really even say it was good or bad. It was just severely lacking......something...anything.....It was like chasing your tail.

[rajman]

4.7 million rating, i've gotta say i was looking forward to this series

[Hopefulsuicide]

I was highly unimpressed with the episode. Eliza Dushku's character was the highlight of the show....and it was mediocre at best. There was nothing in the episode that....when it ended it made me want to come back next week and see what happens. No characters stood out. I dont even remember anyones names. The storyline was....*shrugs*. After 3/4 of the episode....I thought..."Well i have already watched this much...might as well watch the rest (hoping for something spectactular), but was left shaking my head in disappointment. I cant really even say it was good or bad. It was just severely lacking......something...anything.....It was like chasing your tail.

well the episode didn't impress me either... but Joss has done so much to impress me in the past that he's set the bar pretty high

the episode itself, was not brilliance. but the series i can see unfolding can be brilliance. and it was because of things set up in this pilot that i believe that.

[cousteau]

4.7 million rating, i've gotta say i was looking forward to this series

With a rating of 4.7 million, I'd say a lot of people were expecting something - it's going to say something when next week's ratings are known.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

well the episode didn't impress me either... but Joss has done so much to impress me in the past that he's set the bar pretty high

the episode itself, was not brilliance. but the series i can see unfolding can be brilliance. and it was because of things set up in this pilot that i believe that.

And I honestly think that's the problem. Joss wrote some absolute stunning dialogue for buffy, wrote and awesome screenplay for titan AE, had a profound effect on the screenplay for toy story and I'll always love firefly and serenity unapologetically, and that is precisely the problem - the script is way below his par, and eliza dushku is about as kinetic as a block of wood...She simply has no presence, in fact, I'm amazed she got a job in the entertainment industry outside of the porn movie sector. I really hate to be brutal, but the girl really can't act.

It also occurs to me that Joss might be suffering from knockback jitters; he's really had no real success getting shows off the ground since buffy.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I'm not Eliza's biggest fan, she was awful in Tru Calling... and for some reason i think she even lost her weight as faith when she returned in season 7 of buffy... something about her acting ability just seemed gone

But i'm not Tom Welling's biggest fan either, and i still manage to get enjoyment out of Smallville :lol:

i do agree, it was below his par... it's pleasant to watch (i've seen it three times now and it's easy repeat veiwing for me, and it's got some gems in it, some moments i liked

but i KNOW it's going to get better and better as the series goes on... i just KNOW it! :lol:

[Hopefulsuicide]

okay, just finished reading the script for the unaired pilot 'echo' http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3236356/Script_Dollhouse_1x01_-_Echo

you can already see how badly FOX is handling this show if they rejected this is a pilot, and put ghost (which after reading this script seems like a filler episode more than a pilot) in it's place

anyone who has any free time, i suggest reading this script, which has actually made me kinda upset that it wasn't aired. maybe the DVD's will show it...

but i think so of the things set up in the script are now impossible in the series, because of things set up in Ghost... which is a real pity

it's all because FOX wanted it to feel more like a 'story a week' than an ongoing series flow... you can absolutely see the two versions of the show when comparing the script to the aired pilot

god i hate them :(

[cousteau]

okay, just finished reading the script for the unaired pilot 'echo' http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3236356/Script_Dollhouse_1x01_-_Echo

you can already see how badly FOX is handling this show if they rejected this is a pilot, and put ghost (which after reading this script seems like a filler episode more than a pilot) in it's place

anyone who has any free time, i suggest reading this script, which has actually made me kinda upset that it wasn't aired. maybe the DVD's will show it...

but i think so of the things set up in the script are now impossible in the series, because of things set up in Ghost... which is a real pity

it's all because FOX wanted it to feel more like a 'story a week' than an ongoing series flow... you can absolutely see the two versions of the show when comparing the script to the aired pilot

god i hate them :(

I can kind of see where fox are going with this one tbh - Both Fringe and Sarah Connor, by far their most popular products in the line up as far as the UK line up are concerned, are very much story arc driven, and I think that despite their relative successes, having too many series with that much story arc gets tiresome.

[Tabularasa]

I'm more of a story arc kind of person then a story of the week, but I see what Fox is going at. How many succesful serial shows are there on Fox? 24? Yeah it's the highest rated show on Fox besides American Idol and the four night premire always draws in about 20-30 million, Jack Bauer is still relevent in pop culture. Then there's Fringe? It's doing okay in ratings. Sarah Connor? It's on the chopping block to be canned. Prison Break? Season 4 was Fox's gift to them and they're going off the air this year. I may have missed one. Serial shows just don't work on Fox. If Dollhouse can keep this story of the week for one season and manage not to get canceled, then they can do a story arc for a full 22 episode season.

[Hopefulsuicide]

That's what i'm hoping... i can see the point of having it be a serial show, i can even personally enjoy a story a week because there will be Joss gems in all of them and a lot of first seasons are like this (Smallville, The X-files, Supernatural, even Buffy).

The weirdest part is still that 'Ghost' felt like a second episode, not a pilot... it didn't do the things a Pilot usually does...

[Hopefulsuicide]

Next week i'll make a loved it, hated it thread, but since we pretty much covered that in the live discussion thread, this is just to get a general idea of people's enjoyment of the episode :)

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

I gave the episode an 8... i would have give the original pilot a 9... pity :( But i still feel the episode was incredibly enjoyable and wet the appetite for me :)

[vyperman7]

First of all, I would like to say that I was originally intrigued by this show. I will watch anything that is either associated with Joss Whedon or Eliza Dushku. Tru Calling is still one of my favorite shows and JW's record speaks for itself (BTVS, Angel, and Firefly). However, after watching the Pilot, I am not sure how much longer I want to stick with the show. The show feels like a mix between My Own Worst Enemy and The Matrix with the mindwipes, and the implanted skills. As a whole, the Pilot just wasn't that interesting. I will say that the concept is still a good one, and if they develop the FBI agent better, the show could improve. The only thing that the show has going for it right now besides ED, is the mystery of Echo's past. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that her backstory will develop at a snail's pace because they can't give very much away. I will try to stick with it for at least 6 episodes to see if it gets any better. As a whole though, I wasn't blown away. I will say that ED was awesome and did a great job playing both sides of the character. The cool thing is that Dollhouse will test ED's range as an actress.

Now in regards to the ratings - If this was airing on the CW, 4.7 would be good. However, FOX doesn't tolerate ratings that low. John Doe was canceled after one season and that show got steady ratings of 6-8 million viewers everyweek, and so far Dollhouse isn't nearly as good as John Doe was. Xander will back me up there. Tru Calling also had better ratings, and even though it was picked up for a second season, season two only aired for 7 eps. Not to mention Firefly being canceled. It is hard enough for a show to suceed on FOX, let alone a show that gets less than 5 million viewers.

[cousteau]

First of all, I would like to say that I was originally intrigued by this show. I will watch anything that is either associated with Joss Whedon or Eliza Dushku. Tru Calling is still one of my favorite shows and JW's record speaks for itself (BTVS, Angel, and Firefly). However, after watching the Pilot, I am not sure how much longer I want to stick with the show. The show feels like a mix between My Own Worst Enemy and The Matrix with the mindwipes, and the implanted skills. As a whole, the Pilot just wasn't that interesting. I will say that the concept is still a good one, and if they develop the FBI agent better, the show could improve. The only thing that the show has going for it right now besides ED, is the mystery of Echo's past. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that her backstory will develop at a snail's pace because they can't give very much away. I will try to stick with it for at least 6 episodes to see if it gets any better. As a whole though, I wasn't blown away. I will say that ED was awesome and did a great job playing both sides of the character. The cool thing is that Dollhouse will test ED's range as an actress.

Now in regards to the ratings - If this was airing on the CW, 4.7 would be good. However, FOX doesn't tolerate ratings that low. John Doe was canceled after one season and that show got steady ratings of 6-8 million viewers everyweek, and so far Dollhouse isn't nearly as good as John Doe was. Xander will back me up there. Tru Calling also had better ratings, and even though it was picked up for a second season, season two only aired for 7 eps. Not to mention Firefly being canceled. It is hard enough for a show to suceed on FOX, let alone a show that gets less than 5 million viewers.


We found him! the single viewer that liked tru calling! :lol:

[Hopefulsuicide]

:rotfl:

I watched that show after reading a review that pointed out the insane amount of running ED does... and from then on every time she was running i was laughing... you can't take a show seriously like that :lol:

But i think the reason i didn't get into it is because i simply am a bit dubious about Eliza's acting other than faith, and even seemed to slip from her grasp in later seasons.

However, i am going to try to put that aside for Dollhouse, because i really want to see what Joss is going to do with this premise.

[cousteau]

:rotfl:

I watched that show after reading a review that pointed out the insane amount of running ED does... and from then on every time she was running i was laughing... you can't take a show seriously like that :lol:

But i think the reason i didn't get into it is because i simply am a bit dubious about Eliza's acting other than faith, and even seemed to slip from her grasp in later seasons.

However, i am going to try to put that aside for Dollhouse, because i really want to see what Joss is going to do with this premise.

I swear to god, every time I see eliza onscreen, I lose IQ points.

[Xanderman]

lol, I don't think I watched a single episode of Tru Calling...I remember watching some of the pilot when it aired but I found it boring. That was also the case whenever I stumbled upon the show channel surfing. I wonder how much of that had to do with Dushku being the lead...

John Doe was canceled after one season and that show got steady ratings of 6-8 million viewers everyweek, and so far Dollhouse isn't nearly as good as John Doe was. Xander will back me up there.That I will bro, that I will. lol And John Doe was on Fridays too. The real problem seems to be getting stuck with a Friday time slot. Moonlight was on Fridays last year on CBS and it got the can too. Sucks to be a tv show on death night.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I swear to god, every time I see eliza onscreen, I lose IQ points.

:rotfl:

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

lol, I don't think I watched a single episode of Tru Calling...I remember watching some of the pilot when it aired but I found it boring. That was also the case whenever I stumbled upon the show channel surfing. I wonder how much of that had to do with Dushku being the lead...

That I will bro, that I will. lol And John Doe was on Fridays too. The real problem seems to be getting stuck with a Friday time slot. Moonlight was on Fridays last year on CBS and it got the can too. Sucks to be a tv show on death night.

Yup, and you'd think, after everything that happened since Firefly, they would have learned their lesson... but noooooooo!

P.s. Sorry but Moonlight got canned because it was incredibly dull. I was watching it thinking 'how has this even been compared to Angel... it's NOTHING like it'. The acting was basic, the writing was basic, the premise was basic... in fact below basic...

:lol: i suppose i shouldn't speak ill of the dead

[Pesk]

Hi,

I'm a big fan of buffy and angel, but I haven't enjoyed anything joss has done more recently (firefly/serenity/comics).

Should I give dollhouse a try? Or is dollhouse more similar to his more recent work, that I didn't like?

[Xanderman]

Sorry but Moonlight got canned because it was incredibly dull. I was watching it thinking 'how has this even been compared to Angel... it's NOTHING like it'. The acting was basic, the writing was basic, the premise was basic... in fact below basic...I have to admit, seeing the show (Moonlight) again on dvd I'm not AS impressed with it...might have something to do with experiencing True Blood. Moonlight is so tame (or "basic" to use your word) in comparison. ML did have some great episodes though (I haven't reached them yet). It had a great premise by the way. As I've mentioned before, there were some Lois & Clark vibes in the series with the Mick/Beth relationship. Which was understandable given there were also multiple Superman references (they were clearly Supes fans). ML had moments of greatness, but its share of plainness as well. It was a fun show overall. As for similarities to Angel, that's more to do with Mick's character and backstory I think (like both being vamp detectives who hate what they are). The actual universes are quite different--the most notable difference being that vampires aren't soulless demons on Moonlight--because of this, I'd say Moonlight actually has more in common with True Blood. (I see True Blood as "Moonlight Extreme" in ways. Or conversely, Moonlight as "True Blood Lite". heh)

[Ginx]

Just watched this last night - thought it was pretty good but the jury is still out for me. Loved Firefly and Buffy - just want to see how this goes. It reminds me of Point of No Return in a way.

[WickedJenn]

Just watched this last night - thought it was pretty good but the jury is still out for me. Loved Firefly and Buffy - just want to see how this goes. It reminds me of Point of No Return in a way.

Initially I did like it, I do think I'll need to watch a few more episodes though.

[.marshmallow]

I think that for the first episode,it was pretty good.
And it's Joss,it just can't be bad! :D

[Hopefulsuicide]

I have to admit, seeing the show (Moonlight) again on dvd I'm not AS impressed with it...might have something to do with experiencing True Blood. Moonlight is so tame (or "basic" to use your word) in comparison. ML did have some great episodes though (I haven't reached them yet). It had a great premise by the way. As I've mentioned before, there were some Lois & Clark vibes in the series with the Mick/Beth relationship. Which was understandable given there were also multiple Superman references (they were clearly Supes fans). ML had moments of greatness, but its share of plainness as well. It was a fun show overall. As for similarities to Angel, that's more to do with Mick's character and backstory I think (like both being vamp detectives who hate what they are). The actual universes are quite different--the most notable difference being that vampires aren't soulless demons on Moonlight--because of this, I'd say Moonlight actually has more in common with True Blood. (I see True Blood as "Moonlight Extreme" in ways. Or conversely, Moonlight as "True Blood Lite". heh)

hmmm maybe i should have tried harder with it. I loved True Blood from the start, but other shows like Supernatural i have had to force myself through the first few episodes in order to get into it. i think with Moonlight it's just not that inventive... it just seemed like a story that had already been done in a few shows but had been done better...

anyhoo, back to Dollhouse, which i am growing more and more obsessed with every day

[Fat Elvis 007]

I thought last night's was much better--we got some answers and the bond between Echo and Boyd actually made me care. I still thought some of the dialogue was forced--the "Do you trust me" parallel was so obvious, I knew it would be repeated later the first time it was spoken, and it just wasn't very good dialogue. I'm also still really bored with everything about the FBI plot--I know its necessary, but right now I just don't care.

Eliza's acting was so good in this episode, I didn't even think about her acting--I just bought her as the character.

[Tabularasa]

I have to admit, seeing the show (Moonlight) again on dvd I'm not AS impressed with it...might have something to do with experiencing True Blood. Moonlight is so tame (or "basic" to use your word) in comparison. ML did have some great episodes though (I haven't reached them yet). It had a great premise by the way. As I've mentioned before, there were some Lois & Clark vibes in the series with the Mick/Beth relationship. Which was understandable given there were also multiple Superman references (they were clearly Supes fans). ML had moments of greatness, but its share of plainness as well. It was a fun show overall. As for similarities to Angel, that's more to do with Mick's character and backstory I think (like both being vamp detectives who hate what they are). The actual universes are quite different--the most notable difference being that vampires aren't soulless demons on Moonlight--because of this, I'd say Moonlight actually has more in common with True Blood. (I see True Blood as "Moonlight Extreme" in ways. Or conversely, Moonlight as "True Blood Lite". heh)

I like True Blood as well, but you have to remember that True Blood is on HBO, so of course it's going to be more extreme then a network show.

[slayfan]

Overall I'm happy with what I've seen so far of Dollhouse. I do think it will get a lot better as Joss delves deeper into the characters and this world. I know that Joss won't disappoint if we give him a chance to show us the way.

[Xanderman]

it just seemed like a story that had already been done in a few shows but had been done better...The story is different, at least for shows I've seen. Only other vamp shows I watched before it were Buffy and Angel, and now True Blood. Buffy/Angel were different, based more heavily in a world of fantasy/the occult. Moonlight and True Blood, on the other hand, try to be more real. In their characters, in their dialogue, and in their worlds in general. That's not to say Moonlight and True Blood are perfectly believable themselves, just that they have more an air of seriousness, or adultness, to them. Without the endless "Veronica Mars" style witty/cheeky dialogue from every single character that tended to form the staple of those Whedon shows--which works well in pure fantasy, but in a more real world setting, to me is not believable and can be downright annoying (which was my problem with Veronica Mars). When Whedon said he was a fan of VM and called it the "best show ever", was he actually being serious? Or was it more a jab at the show for clearly ripping off his style. Veronica was obviously a Buffy ripoff. Buffy = Veronica = Chloe Sullivan. Buffy (as played by SMG) was the only one of these three character clones I could stand being endlessly witty/cute.

By the way, it seems the Buffy/Veronica/Chloe of Dollhouse is Topher...and for that alone he annoys me to no end. lol Nothing lamer than a "man" talking the way he does, ALL THE TIME. ugh. lol

I like True Blood as well, but you have to remember that True Blood is on HBO, so of course it's going to be more extreme then a network show.I know, just trying to drive home that the shows have similarities, as I knew Becky liked True Blood.

I thought last night's was much better--we got some answers and the bond between Echo and Boyd actually made me care. I still thought some of the dialogue was forced--the "Do you trust me" parallel was so obvious, I knew it would be repeated later the first time it was spoken, and it just wasn't very good dialogue. I'm also still really bored with everything about the FBI plot--I know its necessary, but right now I just don't care.

Eliza's acting was so good in this episode, I didn't even think about her acting--I just bought her as the character.Definitely a much better episode. I also liked ED more this time around. And the FBI side plot is indeed boring, as they're handling it in an overly obvious/unoriginal/cliche way, right now anyway.

[Hopefulsuicide]

The story is different, at least for shows I've seen. Only other vamp shows I watched before it were Buffy and Angel, and now True Blood. Buffy/Angel were different, based more heavily in a world of fantasy/the occult. Moonlight and True Blood, on the other hand, try to be more real. In their characters, in their dialogue, and in their worlds in general. That's not to say Moonlight and True Blood are perfectly believable themselves, just that they have more an air of seriousness, or adultness, to them.

Well when i say the story seemed too familiar and too basic, i am talking in terms of all TV shows, not just ones that feature vampires. Compare it to shows like Bones, CSI and Law and Order. Compare it to Supernatural, Lois and Clark, Smallville. Anything in which there is a focus on investigating a case... and there are examples of it being done with a much more intelligent tone.


Without the endless "Veronica Mars" style witty/cheeky dialogue from every single character that tended to form the staple of those Whedon shows--which works well in pure fantasy, but in a more real world setting, to me is not believable and can be downright annoying (which was my problem with Veronica Mars). When Whedon said he was a fan of VM and called it the "best show ever", was he actually being serious? Or was it more a jab at the show for clearly ripping off his style. Veronica was obviously a Buffy ripoff. Buffy = Veronica = Chloe Sullivan. Buffy (as played by SMG) was the only one of these three character clones I could stand being endlessly witty/cute.


woah woah woah, hang on a minute. so many problems with your statements here :lol:

1. I would prefer it if you didn't refer to Joss Whedon's dialogue as 'Veronica Mars ' style. Buffy came first. Veronica Mars has a 'Whedon' style wit.

2. They face these horrendous situations and they find their strength through sarcasm, and keeping it light. Buffy's puns when she stakes a vampire show her confidence. When she isn't punning you know she's going to loose.

There is so much more to the witty/cheeky lines that just making the audience laugh/smile. It's a whole tone. If you took the sarcasm out of Buffy it'd be like taking the fish out of the sea. It'd just be this big story that was kind of lifeless.

3. Veronica Mars is nothing like a Buffy rip off. Joss liked the show, and guest starred on it, probably for the same reason i liked it - it was well written, with great characters and a high adrenaline level


By the way, it seems the Buffy/Veronica/Chloe of Dollhouse is Topher...and for that alone he annoys me to no end. lol Nothing lamer than a "man" talking the way he does, ALL THE TIME. ugh. lol
.

I think it goes Xander/Wash/Topher myself. The funny man, the slightly nerdish and awkward guy, the man who uses phrases like 'man friend'.

I really fail to see how he is anything like Chloe.

I don't know why you highlighted the word 'man'. There are plenty of men who speak in a feminine/campy way.

However, it will get annoying if it's all the time. Which it won't be. Cause even the funny man gets serious plots in a Joss Whedon show.

[STFanatic]

The pilot went over well at my house.

I didn't watch any of the other series mentioned, I liked the Buffy movie, but the series not so much. I didn't watch Veronica Mars or Firefly, I watched an episode or two of each, but they didn't catch on with me/us.
I did however watch Tru Calling and I liked it very much till they brought in that 90210 guy.

I do like Dollhouse so far, and I will hang with it for a while.

[Xanderman]

Compare it to shows like Bones, CSI and Law and Order....anything in which there is a focus on investigating a case... and there are examples of it being done with a much more intelligent tone.I've never seen a single episode of any of those first three, lol... If you ask me intelligent tones are highly overrated. j/k:p And I'm surprised you included Smallville of all shows in your list of "intelligent" shows...you're kidding, right? lol I mean seriously, if Smallville is intelligent, Moonlight is the reincarnation of Albert Einstein. j/k


1. I would prefer it if you didn't refer to Joss Whedon's dialogue as 'Veronica Mars ' style. Buffy came first. Veronica Mars has a 'Whedon' style wit.Lol I know, I used VM because I was trying to make a negative comparison--VM was grossly overexaggerated in its whedonesque style to me. What worked well in Whedon's shows didn't translate nearly as well in its imitator (VM) for me.


3. Veronica Mars is nothing like a Buffy rip off. Joss liked the show, and guest starred on it, probably for the same reason i liked it - it was well written, with great characters and a high adrenaline levelI'm referring mainly to the writing/dialogue styles. To me, Veronica was a bigtime Buffy clone. Veronica's endlessly witty/cheeky remarks, along with almost every other character on that show it often seemed, simply screamed Whedon to me. There's a reason VM appealed to Whedon and why he made that "best show ever" remark (for a show which is HARDLY the best show ever if you ask me)--personally I really think it was partly a jab for ripping off his style. For the record I thought S1 of VM was pretty good, but S2 was painful to watch for the most part, far from well written. For me anyway (although I haven't seen the whole season, most of it though). Different tastes for different people I guess.:)

[Hopefulsuicide]

Well Veronica had a much dryer sarcastic humor, that was fueled by cynicism, whereas Buffy had a sort of sweetness to her comments.

I think in terms of trying to create a dialogue filled with quippy remarks your right, but i dont see any similarities in the actual characters or world.

Oh and for the record, i don't see Smallville as intelligent anymore :lol: But the Pilot episode had a really origional feel to it, unlike Moonlight

[Mars Investigations]

I enjoyed the first episode, but it hasn't really hooked me yet. It was entertaining, and the storyline is intriguing, yet the cliffhanger (with the tape of Echo and the corpses) didn't really grab me as firmly as it should've done. Eliza Dushku's acting was pretty solid, a bit patchy in parts, but mostly good.

I think that's the problem so far - it was good, just not spectacular.