Nobody cares that "hero" GA tried to kill someone? [Archive]

dru-zod2501

11-20-2008, 08:14 PM

dru-zod2501

11-20-2008, 11:21 PM

really that doesn't mean anything? next to the DD half-reveal?

NaYa

11-20-2008, 11:28 PM

Well, it's understandable he learned Lionel killed his parents and I think he is full of anger and just wants to take vengeance...he'll get over it

kalel5313

11-20-2008, 11:34 PM

I think that it lost most of its sting when he didn't actually end up killing anybody, but I was still kinda disappointed in him.

dru-zod2501

11-20-2008, 11:42 PM

understandable?

So if Batman took Joe Chill and the Joker behind the Batcave, and executed them mafia-style you'd be applauding him?

Bruce Wayne/Clark Kent

11-20-2008, 11:44 PM

It was just a way to get Clark looking better than Ollie.

Not a GOOD way of doing that, but still. Like in season 6 when they made Clark look incompetent while Oliver was out doing his leather hero thang.

davidbrenton

11-20-2008, 11:45 PM

I don't.

Plus, Oliver's been on a downward slide. Come on, everyone pointed it out to him. Give a hero a break.

To kill, or not to kill. Apparently GA forgot the question. oh well, no biggie.

BadToad

11-20-2008, 11:46 PM

I cared! But then again, I've never thought Ollie/GA was all that and a bag of chips. There really was absolutely no excuse for that at all, and if I was Oliver, I'd be taking a long hard look at myself about now and wondering if I'm in the right biz. How did he know that wasn't just a decoy? He could've killed some innocent guy.

I thought it made Oliver look very, very bad, and maybe even a bit unstable. Also, that guy that he had downloading the router in his plane, was he listening to the conversation Oliver and Clark were having? Because if he was, then Oliver just allowed some stranger to hear information about Clark that he had no business in sharing.

I just really didn't know what I was supposed to think about Oliver after this episode.

SUPERMANUSA

11-20-2008, 11:47 PM

Clark should throw him (GA) and Lana in jail. That's what the REAL Superman would do.
:D :D

SteveS

11-20-2008, 11:47 PM

That was naughty but Smallville is also about Green Arrow and his 'journey.'

NaYa

11-20-2008, 11:48 PM

understandable?

So if Batman took Joe Chill and the Joker behind the Batcave, and executed them mafia-style you'd be applauding him?

maybe :rolleyes:

I am saying it's understandable not that it is the right thing to do...big difference ;)

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

Clark should throw him (GA) and Lana in jail. That's what the REAL Superman would do.
:D :D

And Clark should join them too...he's done some shady stuff, he's slipped

dru-zod2501

11-20-2008, 11:54 PM

As I said in the last thread http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113256

this was character assassination. Just kill GA to make Clark look more attractive. Poor writing

SUPERMANUSA

11-21-2008, 12:06 AM

And Clark should join them too...he's done some shady stuff, he's slipped

Clark should throw GA and Lana in prison, while Clark volunteers to 6 months in jail.
:D :D

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

this was character assassination. Just kill GA to make Clark look more attractive. Poor writingI got that when he also said that him and Lana should try to act more like Clark, then asked "what would Clark do?". I thought that was contradicting since the GA is always whining about how Clark doesn't do this or that. No secret, I can't stand that GA sissy.

ginnyfan

11-21-2008, 01:46 AM

yosemiteangel

11-21-2008, 01:57 AM

Ollie's been on a downward spiral this year, and really seeing that Clark is the better man. I'll wait and see about how he progresses against Clark's superness.

migo

11-21-2008, 03:00 AM

I was thinking that. Attempted murder = murder for all intents and purposes. This is why Clark gets off the hook for the accidental deaths. He doesn't go out of his way to cause them (except with BrainIAC).

dru-zod2501

11-21-2008, 03:59 AM

I got that when he also said that him and Lana should try to act more like Clark, then asked "what would Clark do?". I thought that was contradicting since the GA is always whining about how Clark doesn't do this or that. No secret, I can't stand that GA sissy.
I agree. There was lightswitching and OOC moments aplenty tonight:\:(

harryandginnyfanatic

11-21-2008, 05:18 AM

Totally not cool.

dreamsofnever

11-21-2008, 09:18 AM

He intentionally went for a head shot with a real arrow, A REAL ARROW! I was hoping that someone else was controlling him, and his eyes after the fact almost looked remorseful, but in the I think it was all Ollie.

That is BS. Forget Superman being the one hero that's supposed to set the example; until now, in the SV universe that's unequivocally been Green Arrow.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised; the first time GA does something totally un-herolike of his own volition, is the same time we get this "let's all be more like Clark; we should be so lucky to be a little more like Clark" stuff. I swear:mad:

----- Added 54 Minutes later -----

is this really unimportant?? Ollie tried to KILL someone! and no one cares?!?!

I cared! I thought that was extremely crappy of him. I hope they show him doing some soul-searching now, but I'm guessing if he is doing soul searching, it'll happen in offscreenville.

But I think Oliver definitely needs to be held accountable. I was glad Lana at least said something to him about it, but it still wasn't quite enough. I hope they address this in the coming eps!

one

11-21-2008, 11:53 AM

i actually approve of his actions.

biggkoz

11-21-2008, 11:55 AM

Well lex needs to be put down and Im glad someone is trying. But yeah oliver seems not hero liek when hes all self centered.

yaseen101

11-21-2008, 12:07 PM

Actually Superman is the moral center and laid down the 'law' on how to be a superhero. I guess they are just showing that Superheroes before Superman didn't mind killing.

migo

11-21-2008, 12:09 PM

^Good point. Also, for the greater good, Lex does need to be killed. It's not like going into a random situation, saving some old lady from a robbery and killing whoever was robbing her. It's Lex Luthor - they know he's a bad guy, and given him tons of chances, and he just keeps getting worse.

harryandginnyfanatic

11-21-2008, 12:12 PM

Ollie has certainly lost his way.

dru-zod2501

11-21-2008, 12:16 PM

Is this for real? This murdering GA is not a hero.

Does Lex deserve to burn in hell? Of course but the heroes DON'T choose when to send him there.

This Clark is NOT the moral center, he has nothing to "teach" his heroic superiors

myankskent

11-21-2008, 12:20 PM

I have to agree. Not only did Oliver not wait for Clark, but he could've potentially killed an innocent person. I hope that this becomes a major issue in the future with his character because TPTB cannot sell the idea that the GA is a hero if he is going to doing these kinds of things.

harryandginnyfanatic

11-21-2008, 12:23 PM

He must be trying to protect Clark like Chloe did, because anyone who knows Clark's secret is a danger to him.

myankskent

11-21-2008, 12:26 PM

He must be trying to protect Clark like Chloe did, because anyone who knows Clark's secret is a danger to him.

Yeah, but it's even more than that, though. Oliver can tell Clark that it's not about revenge over and over again, but the bottom line is that he is going after Lex because Lionel killed his parents.

Fish1941

11-21-2008, 12:29 PM

Actually Superman is the moral center and laid down the 'law' on how to be a superhero. I guess they are just showing that Superheroes before Superman didn't mind killing.

I don't think that Oliver Green aka Green Arrow is or ever will be perfect. Nor do I believe that Clark is perfect . . . or should be. It's nice that these so-called "heroes" want to help people. But I don't think it's a good idea for them to wallow in the belief that they are perfect or capable of setting an example for others. No one is like that. It is an unrealistic goal for anyone to achieve . . . including Superman.

Clark has already shown that he is far from perfect, considering what he had Jor-El wipe away Chloe's memories of his powers. If she ever learned the truth, I don't see her forgiving him that easily.

yaseen101

11-21-2008, 12:51 PM

Is this for real? This murdering GA is not a hero.

Actually when comic book GA was revamped under the Vertigo imprint, he was known for fatally wounding his opponents with hunter point arrows and was considered highly dangerous. Moreover, Superman is the definition of a superhero and many heroes pick up after him as he is the one who set the rules like 'serving for the greater good', 'don't kill your enemies' and 'don't do bad things like killing and stealing even for the greater good. If you look at Elseworld's tales like 'JLA: Nail' or the current Trinity you will see that a world without a Superman (or Batman and Wonderwoman) would be a place of less stability and less morally obliged superheroes.

Super Maverick

11-21-2008, 01:14 PM

Ollie rocks my socks.

smithy698

11-21-2008, 01:41 PM

I thought it was good to have Ollie representing a contrast to Clark - he highlights the different roads it is possible for a hero to take. He's at a different point in his journey towards being a fully fledged hero, and, like Clark, he is struggling with personal dilemmas - and not always making the right call.

I hope this sub-plot reaches a satisfying conclusion - with Ollie put in a situation where he could kill an enemy, but chooses the alternative route.

fa8362

11-21-2008, 01:45 PM

Too bad it was a dummy and not Luthor.

RedKRules

11-21-2008, 01:55 PM

I think the super heroes in Smallville this season are having identity/moral issues/conflicts, didn´t you see Clark last episode?? mind bleaching his bestfriend to protect his secrets!!! .....

Darth Pipes

11-21-2008, 09:28 PM

I enjoyed the Oliver storyline last night although I have to say his motivation for trying to kill Lex distrubed me. Don't get me wrong, I think Lex deserves to be in a bodybag with everything he's done. But Ollie's decision to kill Lex for revenge seems totally stupid and morally weak to say the least.

I can understand him being frustrated at not being able to avenge his parents death. He needs closure on this matter badly. But how is it revenge to kill the son (who had nothing to do with the murders) of a dead man? It's as hollow as they come. The fact that Lex knows Clark's secret is not a crime either, despite Clark acting like it is.

Ollie did cross a line yesterday which he didn't seem to concerned about afterwards. Believe me, I think Clark gave Lex too many chances, like Batman does with the Joker. But killing Lex because of the sins of his father? That just doesn't work.

Darth Pipes

11-22-2008, 06:34 PM

Actually when comic book GA was revamped under the Vertigo imprint, he was known for fatally wounding his opponents with hunter point arrows and was considered highly dangerous. Moreover, Superman is the definition of a superhero and many heroes pick up after him as he is the one who set the rules like 'serving for the greater good', 'don't kill your enemies' and 'don't do bad things like killing and stealing even for the greater good. If you look at Elseworld's tales like 'JLA: Nail' or the current Trinity you will see that a world without a Superman (or Batman and Wonderwoman) would be a place of less stability and less morally obliged superheroes.

In Batman: Hush Revisited, Ollie goes for a kill shot against Promethus.

I understand the heroes not wanting to cross a moral line but after a while, it gets ridiciolous with guys like Lex and the Joker. If they actually stayed in prison, I can see sparing their lives. But they constantly escape and are guarenteed to rack up a massive body count.

Batman and Commissioner Gordon have the most ridiciolous moral center that you'll ever see. They don't try to kill Joker, despite what Joker has done to Gordon's family and all the people he's killed, including cops. Somebody would have taken out Joker years ago.

vikingjedi

11-22-2008, 06:48 PM

I hated the way Oliver shot some guy in the BACK of the head without even a shout of warning or challenge. It could have just been a bald guy in the wrong place at the wrong time. Horrible, horrible set up. They should have made the environment more threatening. As it was Oliver was ready to shoot Lex in the back in cold blood. *shakes head*

The fact that Lionel murdered Oliver's parents... doesn't really soften the blow at all. I was relieved to see that it was a manikin.

It was a nod to the Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes in the cave and cuts off Vader's head. The helmet explodes and he sees himself. A lesson that the big differences between the good guys and bad guys is WHAT we do and WHY we do them. Otherwise you turn into what you hate.

dru-zod2501

11-22-2008, 10:15 PM

Actually when comic book GA was revamped under the Vertigo imprint, he was known for fatally wounding his opponents with hunter point arrows and was considered highly dangerous. Moreover, Superman is the definition of a superhero and many heroes pick up after him as he is the one who set the rules like 'serving for the greater good', 'don't kill your enemies' and 'don't do bad things like killing and stealing even for the greater good. If you look at Elseworld's tales like 'JLA: Nail' or the current Trinity you will see that a world without a Superman (or Batman and Wonderwoman) would be a place of less stability and less morally obliged superheroes.
when was GA a vertigo title?? that I'd want to read.

I understand your point, i really do, but something still doesn't sit right to me about it when looking at it from a "Smallville" perspective. Sure Superman is known as a paragon of virtue, and this Clark tried to be GA's "conscience" but I feel this Oliver has earned the right to be recognized as a hero to set the example for others. to arbitrarily hand it over to Clark when IMO he hasn't done enough to yet earn it, just because he's going to be "superman," smacks of lightswitching.

SnowBird

11-22-2008, 11:13 PM

Clark is my favorite hero and he is still learning as he told Ollie that he almost crossed the line after his dad died. Ollie didn't listen and still went for the kill which was disappointing. They said that he would be questioning himself and his choices of being Green Arrow and it looks like this has come about. I'm not sure he has learned his lesson yet but maybe he is one step closer to letting go of his revenge.

krpto

11-22-2008, 11:40 PM

Yes ollie trying to take vengence into his own hands isn't right but that sais he wou;d hardly be the first hero to do so and if he does again when he gets the chance I would love it if AoV(with a new superhero name but played by the same actress) stopped him and said you cannot do this your the green arrow people look up to you just like they look up to the other heroes around then Aov pushes ollie back onto the right path SSince I think she will have been thinking about what clark had told her since we last saw her In fact I think she should help out the proto justice league when needed not fully join but help out when needed much like batman in the JLu cartoons.

Skaterpen357

11-23-2008, 12:09 AM

I don't remember this much anger when Clark (the protagonist of this whole series) came close to killing in "Vengeance" (and he did indeed bring that episode up). This isn't character assassination; it's GA doing something incredibly stupid. This won't define GA's crimefighting methods for the future; this is merely something he will have to overcome (and probably will by the end of the season anyway).

BULLITT

11-23-2008, 12:54 AM

Listen-up amnesia victims, if it wasn't for Jonn Jonnz,Clark would have turned Lionel's face to yogurt.

So come off those high horses before you booboo yourselves.

Pantalaimon

11-23-2008, 02:43 AM

He was doing this out of anger, which obviously isn't right.

However, there is something to be said for taking Lex out before he can do any more damage. For me that would be the wrong choice under these circumstances, but a person chosing that approach can still be a hero. For the greater good and all -- questionable, but not necessarily wrong.

I like it when they distinguish Oliver from Clark. Remember that he is a thief - that's how he was introduced in Smallville. He is supposed to have a different moral code.

That said, he can not have been sure about the person he shot being Lex and him risking killing an innocent is wrong. Olliver will have to account for that....
Just to be clear.

SUPERMANUSA

11-23-2008, 03:16 AM

I hate the Green Arrow. He sucks.

----- Added 12 Minutes later -----

Listen-up amnesia victims, if it wasn't for Jonn Jonnz,Clark would have turned Lionel's face to yogurt.

So come off those high horses before you booboo yourselves.Seriously, there's a BIG difference between raising your fist to someone and ACTUALLY shooting an arrow into somebody's skull! OMG, I can't believe you just tried to compare attempted assault to an actual arrow through a persons skull.

:D :D :lol: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

----- Added 28 Minutes later -----

I hope DD tears Green Arrow a new one, just for what he did.

ClarkyBoy14

11-23-2008, 09:22 AM

I don't remember this much anger when Clark (the protagonist of this whole series) came close to killing in "Vengeance" (and he did indeed bring that episode up).

Hm, I though he was referencing "Oracle."

I agree that it was wrong for Ollie to try to kill Lex, even though it ended up being a mannequin. But this is part of Ollie's season story, and I hope they can bring him around and set him straight by the end.

Genevieve

11-23-2008, 09:34 AM

I cared. Our heroes are killers now? There were a few things that bothered me about Oliver in this episode, and I adore him, but he disappointed me Thursday night.

-He doesn't bat an eye over Chloe's memory wipe. She's helped him plenty, and he's helped her too. (Hell, he wouldn't be alive if it weren't for her). No reaction good or bad? None? No? Nothing? Okay then.

-He tried to murder Lex. He just saw some bald dude standing there and fired. That was pretty careless and reckless and stupid.

-He didn't seem to spring into action where Dooms was concerned. Okay I can give him the benefit of the doubt here, maybe all he got to see was Dooms carrying off Chloe and by then it was too late, I can forgive him for his apparent inaction there, but still odd that it seemed he did absolutely nothing.

I think Oliver's still working through some things, still going through his crisis of faith here and is more rogue than everyone thinks. However, he'll have to turn in his hero card soon if he keeps his downward slide, IMO.

ClarkyBoy14

11-23-2008, 09:48 AM

I think Oliver's still working through some things, still going through his crisis of faith here and is more rogue than everyone thinks. However, he'll have to turn in his hero card soon if he keeps his downward slide, IMO.

I agree. I hope this S/L has a good, redeeming conclusion. Because I would hate for Ollie to just get away with trying to kill someone.

hiler1988

11-23-2008, 12:22 PM

Let's not forget that the producers said they wanted to break Oliver down this season and show him in a different light...He's not the charismatic emerald archer we all know and love right now...He's stuck in a major rut and is only starting to pull out of it. If anything, his main reason for trying to kill Lex was a direct hit at Lionel for the murder of his own parents...I am not saying I can excuse GA's actions but I think we can all see his reasons for behaving so irrationally. Hopefully he starts to clean up soon...I miss the season six GA!!

kris10

11-23-2008, 12:37 PM

i think ps3 gave a foreshadow of this with GA do i think its cool heck no! He's just so determined about lex now that he doesnt see what hes doing as wrong b/c hes convincing himself that he's doing it "for" clark(which even clark saw through that) PS3 constantly plays down certain characters to up others and this means ALL OF THEM. it really sucks out loud...it looks lazy...it creates drama yes but GA is human and clark felt the same emotions in prior seasons S5 right after JK...i can certainly understand that GA wants to kill him who in their right mind wouldnt take a shot but he is GA...but the point is why do they have to tell the story and use and downplay other characters to prop up others it stinks. just tell the damn story right.

Doomsday911

11-23-2008, 01:38 PM

Iluvgreen

11-23-2008, 02:06 PM

He didn't kill anybody. I mean he's a very angry guy this season. It wasn't very awsome of him to do that. And I'm sure he knows that. but that scene with Lois probably drove it out of our minds.

Genevieve

11-23-2008, 02:30 PM

He didn't kill anybody. I mean he's a very angry guy this season. It wasn't very awsome of him to do that. And I'm sure he knows that. but that scene with Lois probably drove it out of our minds.

No, he didn't because it was a dummy, but he didn't know that, and that's no excuse. When our heroes want to attempt murder, with malice aforethought/premeditated with intent, they cease to be heroes, IMO. Ollie's walking a thin line right now, and I hope this is rectified soon and that the show just doesn't gloss over it or he'll become the very thing he despises.

Mars Investigations

11-23-2008, 02:55 PM

He intentionally went for a head shot with a real arrow, A REAL ARROW! I was hoping that someone else was controlling him, and his eyes after the fact almost looked remorseful, but in the I think it was all Ollie.

That is BS. Forget Superman being the one hero that's supposed to set the example; until now, in the SV universe that's unequivocally been Green Arrow.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised; the first time GA does something totally un-herolike of his own volition, is the same time we get this "let's all be more like Clark; we should be so lucky to be a little more like Clark" stuff. I swear:mad:

----- Added 54 Minutes later -----

is this really unimportant?? Ollie tried to KILL someone! and no one cares?!?!

Ollie has been going off the rails since he shot Clark in "Odyssey", doubting himself and his abilities before getting a drive for vengeance.

SUPERMANUSA

11-23-2008, 03:11 PM

Ollie should hang it up then. Good riddance Oliver.
Next!
Saying Oliver didn't kill anyone, it was just a dummy, is not an excuse.
As far as he knew, it was a living person.

Genevieve

11-23-2008, 03:21 PM

Saying Oliver didn't kill anyone, it was just a dummy, is not an excuse.
As far as he knew, it was a living person.

I agree. I love Ollie, and my hope is that this will be addressed and fixed on the show.

Bizarrolover

11-23-2008, 03:24 PM

Oliver already killed Lex once, in Rage. Clark revived him with the healing serum Ollie developed. He said he learned his lesson then, that he should try to be a bit more like Clark, but apparently he forgort, because, there he is, trying to kill Lex again.

Genevieve

11-23-2008, 03:27 PM

Oliver already killed Lex once, in Rage. Clark revived him with the healing serum Ollie developed. So, I guess, he can't give up on the idea of terminating Lex once and for all.

But Oliver was under the influence of a drug then. He wasn't this time. He was in complete control of his faculties. I understand that the show wants to break him down a bit, and I love my heroes flawed to some extent, but I don't want the writers taking away and stripping him of what makes him a hero in the process. Otherwise he's no better than Lex.

ClarkyBoy14

11-23-2008, 03:41 PM

Actually, if he overcomes this, then he shows that he's better than Lex, because he couldn't.

Genevieve

11-23-2008, 03:42 PM

Actually, if he overcomes this, then he shows that he's better than Lex, because he couldn't.

Yup. And that's what I'm hoping for. :)

Bizarrolover

11-23-2008, 03:43 PM

Genevieve

11-23-2008, 03:48 PM

Genevieve, I edited my post, you're fast! You are right, Ollie was under the influence of a drug, but he had full consciousness of what he was doing, just was having trouble to control his impulses. He even said that to Clark.

Oliver is a very complex character. He tends to think that the end justify the means and sometimes the route he takes is not the most ethic one. I don't think he's a cold blood killer, but that I'm sure he would cross the line if he think it's necessary.

Heee..sorry about that! I just happened to be sitting here when you replied. :) I love that Oliver is a complex character, and I agree with you that the route he takes in not always ethical. But premeditated murder is crossing the line for someone who's supposed to be a hero. If he does that, he's lost it, IMO. And I don't want to see that happen to my Ollie. *smishes him*

Bizarrolover

11-23-2008, 03:52 PM

But premeditated murder is crossing the line for someone who's supposed to be a hero. If he does that, he's lost it, IMO. And I don't want to see that happen to my Ollie. *smishes him*

I agree with you. Some characters of this show had become killers (intentionally or unintentionally) and I don't want Oliver/GA be one of them. :)

Hopefulsuicide

11-24-2008, 10:48 AM

yeah i thought Ollie was totally OOC to do that. i mean he nearly killed lex in rage, but he was under the affect of drugs and being irrational. to kill lex, with a completely rational mind just because his DAD killed his parents... well it doesnt make any sense :confused:

jimmyolsenblues

11-24-2008, 10:50 AM

i thought green arrow traditionally was not the boy scout superman was?

Hopefulsuicide

11-24-2008, 11:03 AM

he's not a boyscout, but even he has moral boundries... and i think he crossed them

devilneedsaride

11-24-2008, 12:07 PM

The GA has always been a "the end justifies the means" kinda guy, and I've always loved that about him. It makes him seem more gritty and realistic and it gives the character depth and sets him apart from baby supes and the other superpowered types. However, killing for revenge doesn't fall under that heading. That's petty and selfish (yeah, yeah, his parents were murdered by Lionel. Sucks to be him, but if you only stick to your morals when everything's peachy keen then they weren't very strong to begin with, were they?) and pretty OOC in my book.

If he had tried to kill Lex because Lex needed to die, which he does, that would have made more sense and been more forgivable. While killing Lex for any reason is on morally questionable ground, I can see the GA doing it because the world will genuinely be a better place without him. He would be saving some ridiculous number of lives, ending 33.1, etc, and if that were the motivation I could see that as being legit. The reason I love GA is because he isn't afraid to toy with the morally questionable, but flat out premeditated murder based on some revenge scenario that doesn't even really make sense is beyond questionable and imo, pretty bad writing.

I agree that this is probably character assassination to make Clark look better, but they should make Clark look better by actually making Clark better instead of making us hate ALL the characters on the show. :\

The Great Ymmij

11-24-2008, 12:11 PM

Yeah, after seeing the huge hole in the dummy's head, I was like "He would've killed Lex....in a very grotesque way!" I was very shocked that Ollie would behead him like that. Very unhero-like.

Welling_is_pretty

11-24-2008, 02:19 PM

Genevieve

11-24-2008, 04:44 PM

As I was watching that scene I thought "well, finally we see comic book canon Green Arrow on Smallville!"

That was extremely true to Ollie in the comics, who has taken that downward "faster pussycat, kill, kill!" path several times before. So I was pleased to see we're bringing comiccanon!Ollie to Smallville at last.

Well, this isn't the comics, this is Smallville, made for a general television viewing audience. Green Arrow is not The Punisher, IMO. And to make him into a Punisher like character over deaths that occurred when Lex was a kid, is totally ridiculous and comes out of nowhere. I agree with those who say they are tearing Ollie down to build up Clark. SV has a tendency to do this, instead of you know, making the extra effort to write character motivations that make sense.

I still believe it was very out of character for Smallville's version of Oliver Queen to act the way he did in this episode.

celita

11-24-2008, 04:57 PM

I care that he tried to kill someone, I didn't like at all, Clark was rigth about him. I understand why he did it, but I can't be ok with something like this. Thanks that was just a doll, but Ollie didn't earn his cookie in this episode.

Theshadow129x

11-24-2008, 05:27 PM

understandable?

So if Batman took Joe Chill and the Joker behind the Batcave, and executed them mafia-style you'd be applauding him?

lmao i had to answer this.

some people have actually criticized batman for not killing the joker. i mean look at all the things the guy did. he shot Barbara Gordon and made her paralyzed for life, killed the second Robin, and Kills Commissioner Gordon's wife. The guys is crazy and a criminal mastermind. people really dont get why Batman hasn't kill him yet. I'm pretty sure alot of people would prefer him to knock him off the map.

I agree with you about the Green Arrow wishing it was Lex he was killing. Lex wasnt responsible for Ollie's parents' death yet he was trying to settle the score with with lionel by killing Lex. It was an eye for an Eye with ollie getting the last laugh. It was wrong and i dont see why it doesnt bother most people. Lex doesnt do anything to hurt anyone. Alot of his acts are understandable and plausible. Lex just wants and wanted to protect earth and have the woman he loved by his side, no matter the costs. Lex didnt want to hurt Clark if he still knew his secret. He just wanted to make Clark understand that Aliens shouldnt be allowed in our world with their thoughts of taking it over.

ginnyfan

11-24-2008, 05:43 PM

lmao i had to answer this.

some people have actually criticized batman for not killing the joker. i mean look at all the things the guy did. he shot Barbara Gordon and made her paralyzed for life, killed the second Robin, and Kills Commissioner Gordon's wife. The guys is crazy and a criminal mastermind. people really dont get why Batman hasn't kill him yet. I'm pretty sure alot of people would prefer him to knock him off the map.

This reminds me of The Dark Knight and how that film implied that being killed by Batman in cold blood would be the Joker's ultimate victory. :D Beautiful film.

Anyway I don't think it was out of character for Oliver. I think Clark's instinct to not tell Oliver about his parent's deaths was a good call. Oliver's a bit unhinged. He's hiding it well but... The "Vengeance" reference and seeing Oliver crying over his parents earned that moment. Clark even warned Oliver about crossing a line he couldn't come back from. I think it would have been better to SEE more of his desperation for revenge but... for a badly executed B story it was alright.

I guess Oliver's state of mind going into the next four episodes will be an issue. Drawing moral lines is something every hero has to deal with so... it's cool to see them giving Oliver something meaty to deal with rather than marginalizing his character.

Storm45

11-24-2008, 06:02 PM

BULLITT

11-24-2008, 06:18 PM

I hate the Green Arrow. He sucks.

----- Added 12 Minutes later -----

Seriously, there's a BIG difference between raising your fist to someone and ACTUALLY shooting an arrow into somebody's skull! OMG, I can't believe you just tried to compare attempted assault to an actual arrow through a persons skull.

:D :D :lol: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

----- Added 28 Minutes later -----

I hope DD tears Green Arrow a new one, just for what he did.

What part of referred intervention are you not clear about?
Holding him by the neck - above his head...cocked fist...Manhunter speeding in to grab his arm?

OMG! [mod edit]

Eurynome

11-28-2008, 02:32 PM

That was a little disturbing. He doesn't even know if it's Lex or not. He didn't even see his face. GA was so caught up in executing Lex for revenge, he didn't even hestistate to make sure it was him. I know everyone has their slip-ups, but wasn't this covered in "Rage" when Oliver berates himself for almost murdering Lex? I guess Oliver doesn't learn from his mistakes.

SUPERMANUSA

11-29-2008, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by SUPERMANUSA http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4190587#post4190587)
I hate the Green Arrow. He sucks.

----- Added 12 Minutes later -----

Seriously, there's a BIG difference between raising your fist to someone and ACTUALLY shooting an arrow into somebody's skull! OMG, I can't believe you just tried to compare attempted assault to an actual arrow through a persons skull.

:D [Mod Edit]

----- Added 28 Minutes later -----

I hope DD tears Green Arrow a new one, just for what he did. What part of referred intervention are you not clear about?
Holding him by the neck - above his head...cocked fist...Manhunter speeding in to grab his arm?

OMG! [Mod Edit].:D :D smack head here ---|:rotfl:

I am very clear on what you said. Everything you described = NO INJURY.
What part of ATTEMPTED ASSAULT did you not comprehend?
It means that Clark attempted to hurt him, but did not.

You tried to compare NO INJURY to ACTUALLY SHOOTING AN ARROW INTO A PERSONS BRAIN, SHATTERING THE SKULL INTO HUNDREDS OF PIECES. It isn't hard. Clark didn't do do anything, but GA actually shot an arrow into a persons head!

OMG! [Mod Edit]

:D :D :lol: :rolleyes: [Mod Edit]

Welling_is_pretty

11-30-2008, 12:42 PM

Well, this isn't the comics, this is Smallville, made for a general television viewing audience.

I still believe it was very out of character for Smallville's version of Oliver Queen to act the way he did in this episode.
Yes, I know that this isn't the comics. Smallville has a canon all it's own. But since they take their inspiration from the comics it is still nice to see those little "homages" to what we comics fans are/were/have been reading.

And I agree that if you go strictly by SV standards and what we've seen of Ollie SO FAR on the show that it was OOC but if you know the characters comic history then it makes sense.

LoisLaneKicksAss

11-30-2008, 02:00 PM

i honestly don't care. Green Arrow is just taking revenge. whatever. i don't really agree with it. but we all know that Lex can't die because of the Superman Mythos. i mean, if Lex did die....i know i would be PISSED! and we all know that Green Arrow isn't the most stable of persons because of his past. so it is pretty much expected. i wasn't shocked or anything. it made perfect sense to me. whatever. im glad it didn't actually happen though. but it was good for the show...otherwise he never would have ran into lana....blah blah blah.

Theshadow129x

11-30-2008, 06:14 PM

^ i think we should care. Green Arrow is considered to be a hero a person who does noble things. He can't be a hero if he's trying to take lives, even if it is Lex Luthor.

kentfamily

12-11-2008, 12:48 AM

GA always wanted to kill Lex, he even succeeded but CK brought Lex back to life, remember? In season 6 or was it 5 cant remember which season. The point of the show is to reveal Superman as a character that has forgiving qualities in him and would never harm someone. He believes the greater good in a person good or evil.

The little conversation that Lana and Oliver had was just that about CK having goodness in him and believes in humanity.
And to make a point that the rest of the world like LL and GA are just mere humans.

Kevin24

12-11-2008, 12:25 PM

Well, we all have to remember that Green Arrow didn't kill anybody. We can go on about what if it was really him he would have died but you know what it wasn't Lex.

When I first saw that scene my first thought was "Evil" but he will probably use that as a wake up call to calm down. Clark did the same back in Seasons 4 and 5 when he almost killed someone because he was so angry but came to his senses.

Green Arrow can't be perfect 24/7 because he is human and humans make mistakes that is part of life. Was it out of Character for him to shoot the dummy? Well I don't know because we've never seen the Green Arrow in such a state before on Smallville.

When he first appeared everything was going well in his life. He thought he was the big boy , the top dog until he met Clark. That made him realize his weakness that lead to him using that drug back in Rage and that lead to him almost killing Lex. He also hurt Lois in that epsiode. We can say what we want about him being under the influence of that drug but the fact remains that he took it willingly knowing what it could do.

Then in the season premiere he almost killed Clark and you could see the remorse in his eyes and hear it in his voice.....that effected him greatly. Then he disbanded the Justice League and that is when he started going back to his partying ways and womanizing. He lost sight of who he was and then to make things worse he finds out from an old flame that Lionel killed his parents.

That pisses him off and he lets Clark know how upset it truly made him. It took until Identity for him to finally get back into the superhero business because saving Jimmy reminded him how good it felt to make a difference in the world.

He still wasn't and isn't over Lionel killing his parents and he knows all the evil Lex has done and how much he has influenced and corrupted someone who was so close to him in Tess.

I don't think we have ever seen Oliver/Green Arrow ever hate someone before but now we are seeing that happen. He hates Lex and that is why he shot that arrow. We will see if that will be a wake up call or if it will take something else to snap him out of his revenge phase.

Superboy2

12-11-2008, 07:44 PM

What I don't is why some heroes have such a high moral code. They let Lex, the Joker, etc run around and try and capture them, and even so, they escape. Its not believable that they wouldn't kill, even in self defense. Self defense is not against the law. U kill a man who is about to kill hundreds of people with the push of a button, its still self defense.

magic

01-07-2009, 06:40 PM

I don't have a problem with my heroes killing people.
but when it comes from a need for revenge it's pretty ugly.
revenge should always aim for a punishment worse than death :rolleyes:

Fish1941

01-08-2009, 10:54 PM

I have a problem with anyone killing another in cold blood . . . regardless of whether the intended victim is evil or not. Such an act is not defense. It is lowering oneself to the level of the other person deemed evil.

I do not demand that Oliver Queen acts like some do-gooder without any flaws. No one is that perfect. Not even Clark. But I do demand that characters who consider themselves good, acknowledge that they have either done wrong or are capable of doing wrong.

MetropolisGirl4SV

01-11-2009, 06:40 PM

TPTB... are basically killing Ollie's character this season to make Clarkie look good which is quite ridiculous. But let me mention this is Smallville.

Even if it isn't character assassination Ollie did look stupid attempting to kill Lex for what Lionel did, not very hero like in my book! The tit for tat thing never does work, its just a vicious cycle. I guess they really want Ollie to do some soul searching and then they can make a green arrow spin off...lol

I still love Ollie and hopefully TPTB will not marginalize his story line and actually make it
worth watching *sigh*:\

What bugs me more is the freaking Green Arrow can't tell the difference from a dummy and a human being...now this is just pathetheic :rotfl:I always thought Aquaman was dense but maybe GA will prove me wrong lol!

I like GA when he was cocky, and self assured like in season six...I guess were getting the season seven version of Clark Kent...mopey and Lana doped. But in Green Arrow form. Except GA doesn't have a Lana obsession instead it's a Lex obsession, wow just brilliant writing (sarcasm) Ok...enough of my ranting...

Lets see what the future holds for our beloved Jolly Green Ollie...hopefully this time he can tell the difference from a human and a manquin...lol :lol: Can't wait for Legion!