Opinion of Chloe with memory loss in this episode

[davidbrenton]

What's your opinion of our first episode with Chloe without her memories?

[jackhammerslam]

It's different that's for sure. I do feel though that before it's all said and done, that she will relearn his secret.

[unfocused]

I agree, it's different. It was kind of hard seeing her not recognize Kryptonite.

But, as she said to Clark, she is as happy as she wants to be. So, I'm happy for her.

[Darth Pipes]

Chloe looked great in this episode but her character felt like it was gutted without her knowledge of Clark's secret.

I'm going to quote someone at the TWoP forums...

"Clark says he doesn't get rid of good memories. But he has no problem getting rid of other people's good memories."

[davidbrenton]

Chloe looked great in this episode but her character felt like it was gutted without her knowledge of Clark's secret.

I'm going to quote someone at the TWoP forums...

"Clark says he doesn't get rid of good memories. But he has no problem getting rid of other people's good memories."

Crazy good point.

I also felt that Chloe indirectly contributed to Clark's inability to save her with the whole leaving the kryptonite out thing. I think the legion are coming back to get Chloe back to her old self.

[Just Another Guy]

Chloe looked great in this episode but her character felt like it was gutted without her knowledge of Clark's secret.

I'm going to quote someone at the TWoP forums...

"Clark says he doesn't get rid of good memories. But he has no problem getting rid of other people's good memories."
That's so weird! My sisters said the exact same thing. Actually, that line of Clark's really ticked me off.

I was glad to hear Lana stick it to him. I agree, Chloe felt just as I was afraid she might: totally disrespected. I have hope now though, that they might not let this nonsense last. If they don't, I'll hold no ill will toward the writers for this storyline. I'm all about a good twist, as I said before. But I don't want it to last.

However, the episode was ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!

[unfocused]

I agree, Just Another Guy. Amazing episode.

[colibri]

Chloe looked great in this episode but her character felt like it was gutted without her knowledge of Clark's secret.

I'm going to quote someone at the TWoP forums...

"Clark says he doesn't get rid of good memories. But he has no problem getting rid of other people's good memories."

But you have to remember that Clark sees the memories she has of him and the bad things that have happened to her as bad memories not good ones.

We'll see what happens later.

[dru-zod2501]

there's no hope in sight for my chloe. the sacrificial lamb has stopped bleating; i dont believe she'll be saved, though i pray I'm wrong

[Mackdaddy]

You realize that Brainiac controls her right? She hasn't actually lost her memory.

[SteveS]

Brainiac has clearly been somewhere inside of Chloe ever since the guy got downloaded by Brainiac in the hospital.

[Billy Jor-El]

Still a lot of conflicts, but I voted "better than expected". She was relieved to have a weight off her, then Clark's comments about good memories pisses me off. Lana would never forgive doing something like that, what would Chloe's true thought be? Whether Brainiac has still had control of her all along remains to be seen. She sure wasn't much safer in this ep being a "I've moved on" soul.....

[cloisthelegendbegins]

I gotta say this played out much better than I expected. The whole episode had me too upset to even comment on the first viewing but after the second viewing I'm calmer and the very first thing that sticks out to me is what an AMAZING performance the whole cast put in!!!

Allison playing Chloe without the memories is so well done. She played Chloe much brighter and more light hearted than I think we've seen her so far this season - she looked genuinely happy to be getting married and practically glowed. At the start of the season she came across as much more serious, at times with the Brainiac thing a little manic, in Abyss genuinely scared and confused and when she said she felt like a weight had been lifted in Bride, I genuinely believed her. Allison has played a full range of feelings and sides to Chloe that really came to a head for me in Bride. When she was laid down in the fortress and opened her eyes and her eyes went that metallic color and she smiled??? Holy crap.

She's done an outstanding job with this story arc. Really, REALLY can't wait to see what happens to her in Legion. And whether she ends up knowing the secret again or not I'm completely hooked on seeing what happens.

Major props to Allison.

[susangail]

She's become white bread -- just blah.

[dru-zod2501]

You realize that Brainiac controls her right? She hasn't actually lost her memory.
I hope you're right about that I seriously do

[Mackdaddy]

I hope you're right about that I seriously do

Why do you think she smiled at the end? If it was really her, she wouldn't be smiling.

[Becc]

Clearly Clark's plan to save Chloe was a resounding failure. And did anyone else feel a sort of foreshadowing when Clark told Lana what he had done to Chloe and she said that if it was her she didn't think she would ever be able to forgive him for taking that away.

[ginnyfan]

It's too early for me to... really comment on Chloe without her memories. And now that Doomsday has her... I wonder if I'll ever get to see what... her altered memories are/were. I'm still very confused and very interested.

[davidbrenton]

Clearly Clark's plan to save Chloe was a resounding failure. And did anyone else feel a sort of foreshadowing when Clark told Lana what he had done to Chloe and she said that if it was her she didn't think she would ever be able to forgive him for taking that away.

Double yes.

[NaYa]

Clearly Clark's plan to save Chloe was a resounding failure. And did anyone else feel a sort of foreshadowing when Clark told Lana what he had done to Chloe and she said that if it was her she didn't think she would ever be able to forgive him for taking that away.

That's exactly what I thought when Lana told him that. I can understand Clark though, he wants Chloe to be happy and lead a "normal" life but I think his good intentions will or have backfired

[Becc]

That's exactly what I thought when Lana told him that. I can understand Clark though, he wants Chloe to be happy and lead a "normal" life but I think his good intentions will or have backfired

Unfortunately 'good intentions' as an excuse can only go so far. I hope if Chloe gets her memories back she really sticks it to Clark. Surely for Chloe it would feel like the worst kind of betrayal.

[cksidekick]

the kryptonite was foreshadowing as well...this will swing back to bite Clark in his butt...as it should...

[dru-zod2501]

Why do you think she smiled at the end? If it was really her, she wouldn't be smiling.
I think at that point Brainy retook control of her, but before then I have no reason to believe Chloe wasn't in control of herself

[JDS2930]

I was glad to hear Lana stick it to him.

Me too!!!! This, too, gave me hope that the memory loss will not last.

[jimmyolsenblues]

why did chloe smile in the end?

[LiLViLLiaN]

She said she was happy...so I am happy for her. It is time for her to move on from always trying to save/help Clark. He needs to do this for himself...

But, now she is kidnapped. Sigh. :(

[costas22]

She kind of looked different to me.I was used to seeing her in another light.Clark got two kick in the teeth here.The first was when Chloe flashed the kryptonite in his face and the second was what Lana told him.I do believe that Chloe will regain her memories but i wouldn't mind seeing more amnesiac-Chloe if she keeps showing her legs like she did at the Talon.Ooops,there i go again with my perv-talk!

[davidbrenton]

I think at that point Brainy retook control of her, but before then I have no reason to believe Chloe wasn't in control of herself

Agreed 100%

[AChloeChick]

why did chloe smile in the end?

Duh, because she thinks lumpy, bumpy, red-eyed Doomsday is smoking HOT!

I'm not really sure. I'll have to watch it again, but maybe it's because Brainiac's plan has come to fruition and he was displaying that through her smile.

Her smile was CREEPY though. Excellent job by AM! I'm thoroughly looking forward to Legion. Chloiac is going to KICK some major butt!

BTW, I thought AM looked stunning last night. I just don't understand why she doesn't get the love and attention KK and ED get. They're all beautiful in their own right.

[davidbrenton]

Maybe Brainiac needed the fortress to complete his plan and take control of Chloe.

[Dor el]

Clark's been bitten in the butt by his actions/decisions so many times, it's a wonder he has any butt left.

So now the FOS is a trap for Clark? The bad guys have taken over it.

Are we to assume that Chloe's meteor ability is what allowed Brainiac to use her like he has and still is? Is that why Lana was freed when Clark "destroyed" Brainiac, but Chloe was consumed by Brainiac's little nano implantations?

[ghetto_vampire]

Enjoyed the episode, but I think the feeling is mutual on this board...The decision to take away Chloe's memories is gonna get him in trouble all season if she doesn't get her memories back. Loved the episode tho.

[Wildfire]

I usually the like the writing for chole the most and this time t hey did not fail in making use of her. And AM always knocks it out of the park. So I'm happy about the performance and sad she did not get a wedding which is sad for any bride but good story over all.

[eas]

"Clark says he doesn't get rid of good memories. But he has no problem getting rid of other people's good memories."

:lol:

----- Added 10 Minutes later -----

I put 'no comment' because I'm still in a wait and see mode with this one.

I will say this, though: I initially speculated that this memory wipe was an effort to restore Lana's place in the canon. This episode definitely lived up to my specs... if Chloe knew the secret, she would have immediately run towards Clark for help... she would have been able to remove the Green K.

It seems clear to me that the arc of Lana Lang's redemption had to come at the price of Chloe's memory. Look at the way they had her be hurt... she doesn't rush to save Clark. She has to limp and struggle with a lame leg to get to him, almost crawling up the stairs, to remove the Green K. In the hospital, she suffers stoically and heroically - urging Clark to leave her to take care of the world in the selfless manner.

Yeah... all that wouldn't have worked if Chloe knew his secret.

[Dor el]

:lol:

----- Added 10 Minutes later -----Yeah... all that wouldn't have worked if Chloe knew his secret.

Funny how Brainiac duped Clark into playing right into his [Brainiac's) hand. Clark will probably figure out that he really didn't want to erase Chloe's memory of his alienship, but the devil (Brainiac) made him do it. haha Brainiac seems to know exactly how Kal el will react.

[davidbrenton]

That's exactly what I thought when Lana told him that. I can understand Clark though, he wants Chloe to be happy and lead a "normal" life but I think his good intentions will or have backfired

He's got to learn he can't control other people's happiness. He can only control his own. Hopefully, this will be a lesson that he takes away from it, and brings to his relationship with LOIS.

Yup, I said it here. In a chloe thread.

WHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTT?

[TWNik]

Chloe looked great in this episode but her character felt like it was gutted without her knowledge of Clark's secret.

I'm going to quote someone at the TWoP forums...

"Clark says he doesn't get rid of good memories. But he has no problem getting rid of other people's good memories."

It was the wrong choice by Clark. Chloe was in danger anyway & he ignored the fact she told him about the Kryptonian symbol for Doomsday, was part of her memory loss. He didn't follow up on it at all.

Clark looks like an idiot. Brainiac totally played Clark. Again.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

why did chloe smile in the end?

Brainiac has been driving the bus (Pod Chloe) all along. Jor-El told Clark last week Brainiac always has a plan & Chloe was NEVER cured.

[Vindellavon]

Perfection by AM. Well acted and played, may not be the real Chloe, but phenomenal nonetheless.

[Darth Pipes]

But you have to remember that Clark sees the memories she has of him and the bad things that have happened to her as bad memories not good ones.

We'll see what happens later.

I understand Clark's feelings about this but he should have respected what Chloe told him last week and left her memories alone. Unless they were killing Chloe, he had no right to remove them.

[Dor el]

Still think Brainiac manipulated Clark into doing what he did. Just trying to figure out how. I think Clark will live to regret his decision regardless of whether or not Chloe gets her memories of who he really is back.

[Storm45]

Clark has good intentions. But hell is paved with good intentions. His father, Jonathan, told him that once.

[umm]

Chloe looked great in this episode but her character felt like it was gutted without her knowledge of Clark's secret.I'm going to quote someone at the TWoP forums...
"Clark says he doesn't get rid of good memories. But he has no problem getting rid of other people's good memories."´

Fantasticly good point!

[Sweetie]

She was happier than ever but,of course,Doomsday's interruption ruined her day.It's Smallville nobody can stay trully happy more than a day or 2 ;)

[xrayvision]

Chloe looked great in appearance this episode and her personality was very much like the earlier seasons when she didn't know the secret. It felt like the original Chloe was back.

[justincredible]

hopefully he will get her memories back

[lifelovedestiny]

No comment.

There really isn't much to base it on. She and Clark hardly talked.

[davidbrenton]

the kryptonite was foreshadowing as well...this will swing back to bite Clark in his butt...as it should...

See, this was a post that could have been posted in my "Let's keep track of the foreshadowing" thread, but NOOOOOOOOO, No one wanted to join that stale party.

Since nobody joined the circle, I was stuck getting myself off.

THANKS A LOT!

[BABarracus]

What gets me is clark never checks on the fortress to make sure its allright from time to time how long does it take him to go there? not long.

[Iluvgreen]

I'm still waiting to see...

[Just Another Guy]

I find it a little insulting to Chloe's character that so many are saying "She's happy," as if this Chloe is even the woman we've known for the past 7 years. The Chloe I've gotten to know said very plainly that she was happy making a difference in the world, and that's been taken from her. True, she's happy. But it's not really her life. Is it just me, or do I remember someone (maybe Martha?) telling Clark that every experience a person goes through makes you who you are? Chloe is not the woman she's been developed as anymore. She's just a shell. She's an empty character, and I hope the producers have enough respect for her and her fans to restore her to what she was.

[davidbrenton]

I find it a little insulting to Chloe's character that so many are saying "She's happy," as if this Chloe is even the woman we've known for the past 7 years. The Chloe I've gotten to know said very plainly that she was happy making a difference in the world, and that's been taken from her. True, she's happy. But it's not really her life. Is it just me, or do I remember someone (maybe Martha?) telling Clark that every experience a person goes through makes you who you are? Chloe is not the woman she's been developed as anymore. She's just a shell. She's an empty character, and I hope the producers have enough respect for her and her fans to restore her to what she was.

Yes, I agree. Chloe is more naive and carries around less weight, but as you conveyed, that does not mean she is more content. She may not have been "happy" before, but she was content and she loved her life and place in it. Clark certainly took that from her. However, I do believe this story is part of the plan in terms of Clark's growth. Once she comes back from Brainiac's control, I think we'll have ol' Chloe back. And, she may have a thing or two to say to Clark about what he did.

BTW. This poll is interesting because it's so evenly divided.

[EternalTwilight]

It really does feel different. We'll have to wait and see if her life really is better this way. But I think there is an opportunity here to give Chloe a life outside of Clark and I'm curious to see where they'll go with it. Although, I doubt this is a permanent change.

[Kevin24]

She was really happy and reminded me of her old self. I do miss her and Clark's conversation every week but she did seem so much happier not knowing that he is krpytionian.

[Just Another Guy]

Yes, I agree. Chloe is more naive and carries around less weight, but as you conveyed, that does not mean she is more content. She may not have been "happy" before, but she was content and she loved her life and place in it. Clark certainly took that from her. However, I do believe this story is part of the plan in terms of Clark's growth. Once she comes back from Brainiac's control, I think we'll have ol' Chloe back. And, she may have a thing or two to say to Clark about what he did.

BTW. This poll is interesting because it's so evenly divided.
It is a pretty evenly matched poll.

I suppose this whole deal with Chloe must serve some purpose in the overall story arc, and I want to say again that I'm all for it as a twist. But I feel it's somewhat important to voice my concerns as often as I can, for the fear that this is potentially permanent. If there is any chance the producers are considering it, I believe the fans need to sway them back in the right direction.

Honestly, I can't bear the thought of them actually butchering such a monumental part of the show. I can't bear the thought of watching old seasons with a bittersweet love for Chloe's relationship with Clark. And I especially can't bear the thought of this one thing dragging down what is otherwise a great season for a show I've long loved.

[Dor el]

What gets me is clark never checks on the fortress to make sure its allright from time to time how long does it take him to go there? not long.

Yeah, he's gonna be in for a rude surprise when he does go visit dear old dad.

[Hopefulsuicide]

i think Chloe, when it comes to chimmy, always seems OOC to me. i loved chloe because she was a spunky, sarcastic, suspicious, passionate girl who had a hard wit and a was great with words

and yet with Jimmy, she seems to be none of these things

since this episode was so entirely chimmy based, i don't really want to judge the 'new chloe' based on it

[mr lane]

I find it kind of selfish of Clark to have Chloe's memories removed. I do understand he wants her to be happy but things happen for a reason. He should learn by now when he tries to fix something he actually just makes it worse.

It seems like to me Clark has a hard time being happy which of course is understandable so he wants the people around him to be happy which again, understandable. It feels like he tries to live his life through Chloe in a way that if she's happy then apart of him his happy.

He feels the need to have her lead a "normal" life since he can't but he should know by now that no one around him is going to lead a normal life and Chloe was fine with that she told him that herself even Lana told him she would feel disrespected if Clark did to her what he did to Chloe.

Everything has its time a place and will fix itself without him going to Jor-El to fix things he thinks are necassary.

[SnowBird]

It seems like we will never hear the end of Chloe not getting her memory back of Clark's secret. I say it is too early to tell the consequences of his actions. It may work out for the best and it may not. Give it time and let the episodes play out before hanging Clark to the nearest tree. Chloe seemed happier to me and she said herself that a big weight had been lifted. Now that she has been kidnapped by the enemy of Clark and the world, it is better she doesn't know. It could all come back on Clark so he can have another guilt trip. Like I said, wait and see what happens.

[davidbrenton]

It seems like we will never hear the end of Chloe not getting her memory back of Clark's secret. I say it is too early to tell the consequences of his actions. It may work out for the best and it may not. Give it time and let the episodes play out before hanging Clark to the nearest tree. Chloe seemed happier to me and she said herself that a big weight had been lifted. Now that she has been kidnapped by the enemy of Clark and the world, it is better she doesn't know. It could all come back on Clark so he can have another guilt trip. Like I said, wait and see what happens.

Titillating theories. However, when Braniac takes over Chloe's body, she'll know. How?

Because Braniac already knows Clark's secret. He knows everything about Clark.

But, I agree it's too early to tell how effective the plot twist was until we get more episodes. However, up until now, it's been better than I've expected.

[ForzaItalia]

I don't mind Chloe forgetting Clark's secret, I just wish Chloe would get back into Journalism, that's all she could think about for like the first 6 Seasons.... To me, it's inexcusable for the writers to just "forget" that.

[Hopefulsuicide]

seems like the whole thing is going to be pointless now anyway... i mean why take away her memories for one eppie, then have her taken over by brainiac? surely when the brainiac fiasco is over she will know again, so why bother in the first place unless it was too cause all this discussion?

[umm]

Clearly Clark's plan to save Chloe was a resounding failure. And did anyone else feel a sort of foreshadowing when Clark told Lana what he had done to Chloe and she said that if it was her she didn't think she would ever be able to forgive him for taking that away.

That's a given! But then again is it really a surprise, I mean if we do the math how many of Clark's plans go without a hitch? Not many, that's for sure, and by 'not many' I mean, 75 % of them go hirribly, horribly wrong!

[justme_007]

Ok... i have a question about memory loss... why chloe didn´t seem to remember about the flower or bottoniere (something like that) that chloe give to CK years ago??? she doesn´t remember about his powers... but why this?

[unfocused]

Titillating theories. However, when Braniac takes over Chloe's body, she'll know. How?

Because Braniac already knows Clark's secret. He knows everything about Clark.

That's BrainIAC, not Chloe. We already know that when a vessel regains their consciousness they never remember anything from the time their body was inhabited. Such is the case with Lex/Zod, Lois/Faora, and Lamar/Baern. Memory-loss is not something new to Smallville.

Although I do hope, if Chloe gets her memories back, this is how it happens. I can just imagine; BrainIAC takes control of Chloe's body and mind, but has mental problems adjusting to the altered memory base Jor-El left Chloe with when mindwiping her. He attempts to fill the gaps in her memories, or corrects the alterations done to her, thus, affecting him in some dangerous way, or even giving Chloe some of his own powers making her strong enough to battle him herself. Possibly creating a mental war between he and Chloe, as Clark and Doomsday go to war with eachother. And in the end, after BrainIAC has restored/fixed Chloe's memories, she again has all the knowledge that was kept from her by Jor-El.

[Just Another Guy]

I just can't get over this. So many people say we're jumping to conclusions. Don't they understand that this could be a permanent story fixture? Sure, it's as likely as not that it isn't, but the point is, it could be. If that is the case, I want the PS3 to know that we don't like it. It makes me uncomfortable to think of the show taking such a lame, disrespectful direction. She may just be one character, but she's a big part of the show. No one should have to explain that much. The longer it goes on, the more it worries me, and the more awkward it could be for her when she gets her memories back.

I'm hoping and praying the producers are smarter than this. Chloe is not Chloe anymore, and I, for one, want her back sooner than later.

[unfocused]

Ok... i have a question about memory loss... why chloe didn´t seem to remember about the flower or bottoniere (something like that) that chloe give to CK years ago??? she doesn´t remember about his powers... but why this?

Edit: I read that wrong when I first replied. I don't know why she didn't remember. I only watched the episode once but I did get the idea that she didn't remember the flower. I'm not sure, maybe it was just so long ago that it took her a minute to remember. Because she seemed to have eventually remembered the flower, as her and Clark were giving each other some kind of googly eyes for a minute there afterward. Which I thought was adorable.

[davidbrenton]

That's BrainIAC, not Chloe. We already know that when a vessel regains their consciousness they never remember anything from the time their body was inhabited. Such is the case with Lex/Zod, Lois/Faora, and Lamar/Baern. Memory-loss is not something new to Smallville.

Although I do hope, if Chloe gets her memories back, this is how it happens. I can just imagine; BrainIAC takes control of Chloe's body and mind, but has mental problems adjusting to the altered memory base Jor-El left Chloe with when mindwiping her. He attempts to fill the gaps in her memories, or corrects the alterations done to her, thus, affecting him in some dangerous way, or even giving Chloe some of his own powers making her strong enough to battle him herself. Possibly creating a mental war between he and Chloe, as Clark and Doomsday go to war with eachother. And in the end, after BrainIAC has restored/fixed Chloe's memories, she again has all the knowledge that was kept from her by Jor-El.

I understand that. I was commenting on another poster's hypothesis that Clark taking Chloe's memory was a good thing because now she won't know Clark's secret for when Braniac Takes over her body.

I said it didn't matter what Chloe knows or didn't know because Brainiac knows, and he's the one that will be the threat.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Edit: I read that wrong when I first replied. I don't know why she didn't remember. I only watched the episode once but I did get the idea that she didn't remember the flower. I'm not sure, maybe it was just so long ago that it took her a minute to remember. Because she seemed to have eventually remembered the flower, as her and Clark were giving each other some kind of googly eyes for a minute there afterward. Which I thought was adorable.

i think it's her disbelief that kept her from immediately recognising the flower. she spent so long accepting Clark would never love her, that she would always assume the flower was something else... i loved the shocked look on her face when she saw that it HAD meant something too him, not love, but more than she let herself believe it meant when she ended it in vortex

[unfocused]

I understand that. I was commenting on another poster's hypothesis that Clark taking Chloe's memory was a good thing because now she won't know Clark's secret for when Braniac Takes over her body.

I said it didn't matter what Chloe knows or didn't know because Brainiac knows, and he's the one that will be the threat.
Ah, I see. You made a good point.

i think it's her disbelief that kept her from immediately recognising the flower. she spent so long accepting Clark would never love her, that she would always assume the flower was something else... i loved the shocked look on her face when she saw that it HAD meant something too him, not love, but more than she let herself believe it meant when she ended it in vortex

That's logical. And possibly what happened.

[Just Another Guy]

I swear, if Saturn Girl ends up erasing Lana's memory in the next episode, I'll be enraged.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I swear, if Saturn Girl ends up erasing Lana's memory in the next episode, I'll be enraged.

if that happens, i solemly vow i will not continue to watch Smallville... i have to stick to that :lol:

[Fallen One]

Loved it baby woo!

She didn't remember a thing, how beautiful was that? And when she pulled out the Kryptonite I think my eyes started to swell up. I was so proud.

Thank you Clark, thank you Jor-El, thank you writers.

[Just Another Guy]

Loved it baby woo!

She didn't remember a thing, how beautiful was that? And when she pulled out the Kryptonite I think my eyes started to swell up. I was so proud.

Thank you Clark, thank you Jor-El, thank you writers.
For... what, exactly?

[Kevin24]

Loved it baby woo!

She didn't remember a thing, how beautiful was that? And when she pulled out the Kryptonite I think my eyes started to swell up. I was so proud.

Thank you Clark, thank you Jor-El, thank you writers.

I wouldn't get to excited. She will most likely remember everything or be re-introduced to his secret in due time.

It was interesting to see but I wouldn't call it beautiful:lol:

[HeartChakraBabe]

Chloe was in that episode?! Where?! *looks wildly around*

[Hopefulsuicide]

For... what, exactly?

i think it's just anti-chloe... i can understand it, i used to be anti-lana when i was 16, and i was equally as mean in my posting :lol:

i tend to look at things in a much more objective perspective now... i sort of see the good and bad in every character now

[Just Another Guy]

i think it's just anti-chloe... i can understand it, i used to be anti-lana when i was 16, and i was equally as mean in my posting :lol:

i tend to look at things in a much more objective perspective now... i sort of see the good and bad in every character now
I was thinking the same thing. :rolleyes:

[unfocused]

For... what, exactly?

Because the mindwipe inadvertently helps Clark's transition into becoming Superman. Something many fans have been awaiting and anticipating for the past 7+ years, and even moreso these past 2 years.

I know, you're just going to reply with "but at the expense of Chloe?! that's wrong and unsupermanly!"

But don't bother. I know it sucked, and I feel your pain. It was hard to see for me, but no one ever told me it was all going to be an easy, enjoyable journey. But all of the pain, bumps, twists and turns just make the destination all the more satisfying.

[/philosophy thingy stuff]

[Hopefulsuicide]

. It was hard to see for me, but no one ever told me it was all going to be an easy, enjoyable journey. But all of the pain, bumps, twists and turns just make the destination all the more satisfying.



see i was under the impression that Clark Kent's journey to Superman WASN'T morally ambiguous...

but i guess Smallville has changed all that...

Thaks Smallville, for taking Superman down a notch on a moral scale... totally makes it more satisfying...

p.s. sorry bout the sarcasm... sometimes it just comes out :lol:

[Superman's Girl]

Chloe was in that episode?! Where?! *looks wildly around*

:lol::rotfl::lol: I felt the same way...it's weird...that smile is still there and the twinkle in her eyes...so physically we have Chloe. But mentally...whoa, who is this person??? I think she'll be back before the season is up. What can I say...I just love to hold on to hope :p.

[ginnyfan]

[/philosophy thingy stuff]

Ha! :D

[Just Another Guy]

Because the mindwipe inadvertently helps Clark's transition into becoming Superman. Something many fans have been awaiting and anticipating for the past 7+ years, and even moreso these past 2 years.

I know, you're just going to reply with "but at the expense of Chloe?! that's wrong and unsupermanly!"

But don't bother. I know it sucked, and I feel your pain. It was hard to see for me, but no one ever told me it was all going to be an easy, enjoyable journey. But all of the pain, bumps, twists and turns just make the destination all the more satisfying.

[/philosophy thingy stuff]
But... it didn't have anything to do with his Superman transition. It still doesn't, and it never will. Clark becomes Superman to save the world. Not because he ran out of Chloe's to confide in. :rolleyes: In fact, Clark's idea seems pretty stupid so far, and it will continue to seem stupid, whether the PS3 conveniently pander to their solution by washing away Chloe's troubles or not.

There's a difference between "pains (like Jonathan's death), bumps (like Lex and Clark's friendship deteriorating), twists (like Lois showing up years before she's traditionally supposed to) and turns (like Lionel's turnaround in seasons 4 and 5)" and "stupid idea." This reeks of stupid idea, and as of yet, the majority seems to agree.

I hope they stand their ground.

[Hopefulsuicide]

tbh, if TPTB wanted to take the focus off Chloe, and push Clark closer... they really went about it the wrong way

just look at what has happened on these forums since abyss... there is so much discussion about Chloe... more than i have ever seen after any episode. and it will carry on until they undo what they did.

right now, it's getting almost as bad as Chloe the character being seen as an unwilling sacrifice for Clark's destiny... to me, Clark hasn't come off looking all noble and decisive like they seem to have intended... instead Chloe has come off looking like an acceptable loss for the cause

i want to see the next 5 episodes, because i want this hideousness over

i feel constantly tense when talking about what's happened, but i hope that it will all be sorted out, and when it is i can relax. and if it isn't then i'll have to accept it... but at least it will be over :lol:

[Just Another Guy]

tbh, if TPTB wanted to take the focus off Chloe, and push Clark closer... they really went about it the wrong way

just look at what has happened on these forums since abyss... there is so much discussion about Chloe... more than i have ever seen after any episode. and it will carry on until they undo what they did.

right now, it's getting almost as bad as Chloe the character being seen as an unwilling sacrifice for Clark's destiny... to me, Clark hasn't come off looking all noble and decisive like they seem to have intended... instead Chloe has come off looking like an acceptable loss for the cause

i want to see the next 5 episodes, because i want this hideousness over

i feel constantly tense when talking about what's happened, but i hope that it will all be sorted out, and when it is i can relax. and if it isn't then i'll have to accept it... but at least it will be over :lol:
I know exactly what you mean about the tension. If I knew that Chloe's condition wasn't going to be permanent, I'd feel so good about the show right now. I do love the overall direction it's taken, and that wonderful feeling of what will come next. But it's just being hampered right now by my fears that they will destroy Chloe's character (or already have).

[davidbrenton]

Well, based on spoilers for 8-15, it seems Chloe's mind-wipe is only temporary.

Please don't quote me. I don't know how to make it black with black lettering. If you quote, it will be seen by all.

[Just Another Guy]

^^^

Please, please, please, please, please...

[Hopefulsuicide]

i think you should put spoiler marks around that... this isn't the spoiler section

p.s. i knew that, but it's not concrete yet... still so many worries, even knowing the info on 8.15...

[Just Another Guy]

You're probably right. And I had my suspicions too, based on the central characters of that episode.

*takes deep breath*

Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please...

[unfocused]

see i was under the impression that Clark Kent's journey to Superman WASN'T morally ambiguous...

MOD EDIT

[Just Another Guy]

MOD EDIT
Maybe you say "maybe you're under the impression" too much.

[Hopefulsuicide]

MOD EDIT

maybe... but i don't think so...

i've NEVER had a problem with a moral decision made by a hero before, even ones i didn't agree with. this one is exceptional for me, and many others for a few reasons...

1. chloe explicitly said she wouldn't give up her memories for anything (which means he went expressly against her wishes)
2. i do not consider his reasons for making the morally ambiguous decision, justify the decision made (yes some people do thing there is justification... i don't)
3. it is a matter of a woman's right to choose her own life, no matter how dangerous (which i admit, does press my buttons in a biased way)
4. within the episode it seemed to have been considered the GOOD thing to do (though now Lana has said about not being able to forgive him if he did it to her i feel a little better)

it's not like i've complained for 8 seasons, every time Clark made a mistake. everybody makes mistakes. most of the time i either accept the mistakes, or in some cases enjoy them. it was his teens and he was portrayed as a troubled teen. every time he made a mistake he had the Kents there to give him a little lecture.

i mean god, when Clark blew up the spaceship and ended up causing Martha's miscarriage... i didnt moan about his decisions. when he ran to metropolis and started stealing and blowing up police cars... i saw it as character growth... he hit his rock bottom and he was going up from there

but at this point we are supposed to believe the decisions he is making at the moment are heroes decisions. if the kents were still around, would they have been proud of him? is that what we are supposed to think? or would they have given him the same sort of lectures they were giving him back in the first season

J K: you can't trust Jor-el, you know that son. if he agreed to take her memories, there must have been something in it for him

C K: but at least she will be safe now. she can be happy.

M K: without you...

C K: that's a sacrifice i'm willing to make

M K: i'm not sure it's a sacrifice she would have been willing to make

[unfocused]

But... it didn't have anything to do with his Superman transition. It still doesn't, and it never will. Clark becomes Superman to save the world. Not because he ran out of Chloe's to confide in. :rolleyes: In fact, Clark's idea seems pretty stupid so far, and it will continue to seem stupid, whether the PS3 conveniently pander to their solution by washing away Chloe's troubles or not.

There's a difference between "pains (like Jonathan's death), bumps (like Lex and Clark's friendship deteriorating), twists (like Lois showing up years before she's traditionally supposed to) and turns (like Lionel's turnaround in seasons 4 and 5)" and "stupid idea." This reeks of stupid idea, and as of yet, the majority seems to agree.

I hope they stand their ground.
MOD EDIT
tbh, if TPTB wanted to take the focus off Chloe, and push Clark closer... they really went about it the wrong way
MOD EDIT

[Just Another Guy]

MOD EDIT

[unfocused]

MOD EDIT

[Just Another Guy]

MOD EDIT

[Dor el]

Actually, I can see some real benefits to Chloe's mindswipe. She's in the FOS. When Clark comes calling, won't it be nice if there is someone there to help him? The whole plan to get DD and Brainiac to the Fos where they can do what it is that they intend to do involved Chloe. It appears that Brainiac and DD are better served without Chloe in the know. Jor el is injured, but I think not dead. The new deed holders to the FOS are lying in wait for Clark to return. I feel sure that they are confident he will return. Clark is gonna do what ever it takes to get Chloe back. Everyone and anyone who knows Clark knows this. When the attention of the new deed holders is on getting rid of Clark, what might a weakened Jor el do? Who might he turn to? Who has professed her love for his son? Who has proven time and again that she will do anything to save Clark? Who might a weakened Jor el turn to, under the radar of course, to help? What might Jor el do to enable Chloe to be in a position to help Clark? I think this is an exciting opportunity for Jor el to take a stand and do something that Clark will be very grateful for. And show his (Jor el's) softer side while at the same time doing something that might really surprise and aid his son.

Trying to make a point without spoiling. Not sure I did.

[Hopefulsuicide]

MOD EDIT

[unfocused]

Actually, I can see some real benefits to Chloe's mindswipe. She's in the FOS. When Clark comes calling, won't it be nice if there is someone there to help him? The whole plan to get DD and Brainiac to the Fos where they can do what it is that they intend to do involved Chloe. It appears that Brainiac and DD are better served without Chloe in the know. Jor el is injured, but I think not dead. The new deed holders to the FOS are lying in wait for Clark to return. I feel sure that they are confident he will return. Clark is gonna do what ever it takes to get Chloe back. Everyone and anyone who knows Clark knows this. When the attention of the new deed holders is on getting rid of Clark, what might a weakened Jor el do? Who might he turn to? Who has professed her love for his son? Who has proven time and again that she will do anything to save Clark? Who might a weakened Jor el turn to, under the radar of course, to help? What might Jor el do to enable Chloe to be in a position to help Clark? I think this is an exciting opportunity for Jor el to take a stand and do something that Clark will be very grateful for. And show his (Jor el's) softer side while at the same time doing something that might really surprise and aid his son.

Trying to make a point without spoiling. Not sure I did.

:lol: If you had not added that last sentence, I wouldn't feel so spoiled right now.

[Diego*Chloe]

MOD EDIT



He can become Superman.....with Chloe knowing his secret it´s not her fault that he was depending on her so much

He can do things on his own and not mindwipe Chloe to do so ;)

[Fallen One]

i think it's just anti-chloe... i can understand it, i used to be anti-lana when i was 16, and i was equally as mean in my posting :lol:

i tend to look at things in a much more objective perspective now... i sort of see the good and bad in every character now
Pro-Clark/Superman, not anti Chloe.

Anything good for Clark is good for me. Anything bad for Clark is bad for me.

And the Chlark scoobying stuff is bad for Clark. Therefore the Chlark scoobying stuff had to be cut off, completely. The root of the problem was Chloe knowing the secret, therefore that is where the solution had to come from. Problem solved.

I see only good because only good can come from this as far as Clark's journey is concerned. Chloe can be written to do other things, not that I care really. I only care about her not affecting Clark negatively. And with her out of the loop secret wise, that concern has been taken care of.

[Just Another Guy]

Pro-Clark/Superman, not anti Chloe.

Anything good for Clark is good for me. Anything bad for Clark is bad for me.

And the Chlark scoobying stuff is bad for Clark. Therefore the Chlark scoobying stuff had to be cut off, completely. The root of the problem was Chloe knowing the secret, therefore that is where the solution had to come from. Problem solved.

I see only good because only good can come from this as far as Clark's journey is concerned. Chloe can be written to do other things, not that I care really. I only care about her not affecting Clark negatively. And with her out of the loop secret wise, that concern has been taken care of.
That's not true. If Chloe affects Clark's journey as much as you say, there are far better ways to handle it than to remove her knowledge of his secret. As others have said millions of times, their dynamic had already changed in season 8. To say that she has to be completely removed is extremely unimaginative.

Furthermore, if Chloe knowing the secret doesn't allow for the iconic Superman mythology, then we should see a different mythology. This is Smallville. Smallville's always been its own story, and they're trying to change that now. By implying that Superman cant have a Chloe, even in Smallville, they're implying that Superman can never be updated, and I completely disagree.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Pro-Clark/Superman, not anti Chloe.

Anything good for Clark is good for me. Anything bad for Clark is bad for me.

And the Chlark scoobying stuff is bad for Clark. Therefore the Chlark scoobying stuff had to be cut off, completely. The root of the problem was Chloe knowing the secret, therefore that is where the solution had to come from. Problem solved.

I see only good because only good can come from this as far as Clark's journey is concerned. Chloe can be written to do other things, not that I care really. I only care about her not affecting Clark negatively. And with her out of the loop secret wise, that concern has been taken care of.

Clark having a complete lack of independance is bad for Clark, Clark always going to his friend instead of figuring out how to do things himself is bad for Clark, Clark always going to his daddy to solve his problems is bad for Clark, Clark solving his lack of independance (which is what causes the hurt for Chloe, not her actual knowledge) by removing her memories against her will, is bad for Clark

Chloe herself was never bad for Clark. she saved him, she loved him, she would give her life for him. she was everything he could have from a friend, and her knowing the secret only made those things stronger... and he has betrayed her

it's like winning the lottery on a ticket you stole from someone without them knowing... the money will always be tainted

and for me, and transition to Superman that happens BECAUSE he didn't give Chloe her own memories back is tainted

[unfocused]

Pro-Clark/Superman, not anti Chloe.

Anything good for Clark is good for me. Anything bad for Clark is bad for me.

And the Chlark scoobying stuff is bad for Clark. Therefore the Chlark scoobying stuff had to be cut off, completely. The root of the problem was Chloe knowing the secret, therefore that is where the solution had to come from. Problem solved.

I see only good because only good can come from this as far as Clark's journey is concerned. Chloe can be written to do other things, not that I care really. I only care about her not affecting Clark negatively. And with her out of the loop secret wise, that concern has been taken care of.

I'm pro-Clark/Superman as well! Your post reminded me of an old Chlark joke. About how Clark needs to cut off Chloe's scoobysnack supply :rotfl:

[Fallen One]

That's not true. If Chloe affects Clark's journey as much as you say, there are far better ways to handle it than to remove her knowledge of his secret. As others have said millions of times, their dynamic had already changed in season 8. To say that she has to be completely removed is extremely unimaginative.
I didn't want their dynamic changed, I wanted it destroyed. Whats "changed" going to do? You know, I know, and everybody who reads this knows in their heart of hearts that as long as Chloe knew the secret the writers were going to keep coming up with ways for her to scooby with Clark. The only ways out of it were to kill her off, make her a villian, or strip her of the secret. The writers chose the most merciful way to end it, but I'll take it.

Furthermore, if Chloe knowing the secret doesn't allow for the iconic Superman mythology, then we should see a different mythology. This is Smallville. Smallville's always been its own story, and they're trying to change that now. By implying that Superman cant have a Chloe, even in Smallville, they're implying that Superman can never be updated, and I completely disagree.
If PS3 went to the execs at the WB and DCU comics and said:

"Yeah... wassup? Nice tie. Listen. We think the old way of writing Superman sucks. We think we should make Superman half a duo. We're thinking we should make Chloe the brains of the operation and have Clark be the Kryptonian muscle. Together they can take on all the villians of the DC universe and defeat as only they can. In fact, when New Metropolis in the time of the Legion of Superheroes build a statue of Superman 1000 years from now.. we want there to be a statue of Chloe right next to him, holding a computer and grinning. What do you think? Sounds sexy eh?"

You know what their answer will be? Lets say it'll be laiden with profanities, accompanied by the firing of each and every producer, and finally the cancellation of the show itself.

Chloe herself was never bad for Clark. she saved him, she loved him, she would give her life for him.
And cocooned his growth, made him lazy, was prompted up to look good at his expense. Hey but lets not split hairs.

she was everything he could have from a friend, and her knowing the secret only made those things stronger...
They are still friends. He'll always have friends, and more will come in his life after she is gone. He won't be alone. He's already falling in love with the greatest friend he will ever have.. his wife Lois. Let me repeat.. the greatest friend he will ever have.


and he has betrayed her

One could look at it that way, or one can look at it like he's freed her. And freed himself.


it's like winning the lottery on a ticket you stole from someone without them knowing... the money will always be tainted

The wind in my face as I drive my new porsche will dry my tears...


I'm pro-Clark/Superman as well! Your post reminded me of an old Chlark joke. About how Clark needs to cut off Chloe's scoobysnack supply :rotfl:

Its a shame its gotten to this point James. But better late than never.

[Hopefulsuicide]

And cocooned his growth, made him lazy, was prompted up to look good at his expense. Hey but lets not split hairs.


They are still friends. He'll always have friends, and more will come in his life. He won't be alone. He already is falling in love with the greatest friend he will ever have.. his wife Lois. Let me repeat.. the greatest friend he will ever have.


One could look at it that way, or one can look at it like he's freed her. And freed himself.


The wind in my face as I drive my new porsche will dry my tears...


Its a shame its gotten to this point James. But better late than never.

Chloe didnt make him lazy... she really didnt have that power over him. Clark simply was lazy. He's STILL lazy, as he's getting his father to take chloe's memories so he doesnt have to deal with his problems lik a good man

please don't repeat your opinions like they are fact. While i consider Lois and Clark the greatest love story of all time, i think Smallville has given us a totally different story, and in this stoy Chloe is the best friend he will ever have.

i hope your joking about the porsche thing... if your not... well i'm not even gonna touch that cause i don't want to get personal, but i dont think your at all considering what im saying seriously

your happy cause you got your way and chloe is out of the picture... thats pretty much a summary of what you keep saying isnt it?

who cares how it happened...

[Diego*Chloe]

I didn't want their dynamic changed, I wanted it destroyed. Whats "changed" going to do? You know, I know, and everybody who reads this knows in their heart of hearts that as long as Chloe knew the secret the writers were going to keep coming up with ways for her to scooby with Clark. The only ways out of it were to kill her off, make her a villian, or strip her of the secret. The writers chose the most merciful way to end it, but I'll take it.


If PS3 went to the execs at the WB and DCU comics and said:

"Yeah... wassup? Nice tie. Listen. We think the old way of writing Superman sucks. We think we should make Superman half a duo. We're thinking we should make Chloe the brains of the operation and have Clark be the Kryptonian muscle. Together they can take on all the villians of the DC universe and defeat as only they can. In fact, when New Metropolis in the time of the Legion of Superheroes build a statue of Superman 1000 years from now.. we want there to be a statue of Chloe right next to him, holding a computer and grinning. What do you think? Sounds sexy eh?"

You know what their answer will be? Lets say it'll be laiden with profanities, accompanied by the firing of each and every producer, and finally the cancellation of the show itself.


And cocooned his growth, made him lazy, was prompted up to look good at his expense. Hey but lets not split hairs.


They are still friends. He'll always have friends, and more will come in his life after she is gone. He won't be alone. He's already falling in love with the greatest friend he will ever have.. his wife Lois. Let me repeat.. the greatest friend he will ever have.


One could look at it that way, or one can look at it like he's freed her. And freed himself.


The wind in my face as I drive my new porsche will dry my tears...


Its a shame its gotten to this point James. But better late than never.


It´s Clark´s fault......Chloe dosen´t have power over him it´s just his lazy butt that goes with Chloe for info.

and as long as your happy the others can go to hell or what???

So please don´t blame Chloe because Clark goes with her for info ¬¬

[Just Another Guy]

I didn't want their dynamic changed, I wanted it destroyed. Whats "changed" going to do? You know, I know, and everybody who reads this knows in their heart of hearts that as long as Chloe knew the secret the writers were going to keep coming up with ways for her to scooby with Clark. The only ways out of it were to kill her off, make her a villian, or strip her of the secret. The writers chose the most merciful way to end it, but I'll take it.


If PS3 went to the execs at the WB and DCU comics and said:

"Yeah... wassup? Nice tie. Listen. We think the old way of writing Superman sucks. We think we should make Superman half a duo. We're thinking we should make Chloe the brains of the operation and have Clark be the Kryptonian muscle. Together they can take on all the villians of the DC universe and defeat as only they can. In fact, when New Metropolis in the time of the Legion of Superheroes build a statue of Superman 1000 years from now.. we want there to be a statue of Chloe right next to him, holding a computer and grinning. What do you think? Sounds sexy eh?"

You know what their answer will be? Lets say it'll be laiden with profanities, accompanied by the firing of each and every producer, and finally the cancellation of the show itself.Having skipped everything but the basics of your reply, I'm going to say this. MOD EDITB.) If DC and the WB had a problem with Chloe knowing, she never would've known to begin with. MOD EDIT Seriously, is it that hard to imagine that Chloe could go to work for NASA or something without having to strip her of Clark's secret? That's a pretty lame cop-out.

[unfocused]

I didn't want their dynamic changed, I wanted it destroyed. Whats "changed" going to do? You know, I know, and everybody who reads this knows in their heart of hearts that as long as Chloe knew the secret the writers were going to keep coming up with ways for her to scooby with Clark. The only ways out of it were to kill her off, make her a villian, or strip her of the secret. The writers chose the most merciful way to end it, but I'll take it.
I was arguing this exact point just after Abyss. TPTB chose to go in the direction that's best for the character. There was no way Chloe could still know the secret and just go on without being in Clark's way. Chloe has always been clingy to Clark. I mean damn, when she was pining for him in the early seasons, she couldn't even get the picture that he wasn't interested. She was pathetic and I felt real pity for the girl. I just wanted to yell in her ear "GO away, Clark doesn't want you!" It's been clear to me all these years that Chloe will never just leave Clark alone. Especially as long as she knows the secret.

So taking the memories away, even for a little while, will help push her away from his life as a hero, and help him to a life as a superhero. Not to mention all of the good things it will do for Chloe herself, "a weight has been lifted off my shoulders," "I am happy."

They are still friends. He'll always have friends, and more will come in his life after she is gone. He won't be alone. He's already falling in love with the greatest friend he will ever have.. his wife Lois. Let me repeat.. the greatest friend he will ever have.
Ah, beautifully said :)

Seriously, is it that hard to imagine that Chloe could go to work for NASA or something without having to strip her of Clark's secret?
Yes. As I said above, Chloe is borderline obsessive when it comes to Clark and his secret. She would never let him go, not on her own. So, the writers gave her a push :)

[Just Another Guy]

MOD EDIT

[unfocused]

Chloe can only move on when she is pushed to do it. Had she not accepted Jimmy's proposal, we'd still be watching Scoobyville in full Clark-regression mode all season long. The new PTB decided to have her accept Jimmy's proposal, so again, she was pushed. Because pre-season-8-Chloe would have chosen to be Clark's sidekick over being Jimmy's wife.

Also, as a great man once said:
Pro-Clark/Superman, not anti Chloe.

;)

[Just Another Guy]

Chloe can only move on when she is pushed to do it. Had she not accepted Jimmy's proposal, we'd still be watching Scoobyville in full Clark-regression mode all season long. The new PTB decided to have her accept Jimmy's proposal, so again, she was pushed. Because pre-season-8-Chloe would have chosen to be Clark's sidekick over being Jimmy's wife.

Also, as a great man once said:


;)
MOD EDIT

I think it was James Marsters who said that Chloe sort of represents the POV of the viewers. I agree with that to an extent. By doing this to her character, they've greatly reduced the importance of that role. I'm holding out hope that the PS3 are more creative with her future MOD EDIT

[unfocused]

MOD EDIT

[Diego*Chloe]

Chloe can only move on when she is pushed to do it. Had she not accepted Jimmy's proposal, we'd still be watching Scoobyville in full Clark-regression mode all season long. The new PTB decided to have her accept Jimmy's proposal, so again, she was pushed. Because pre-season-8-Chloe would have chosen to be Clark's sidekick over being Jimmy's wife.

Also, as a great man once said:


;)


Then Clark need´s to be pushed too.....because if he wouldn´t he will probably be winning about Lana :rolleyes:

Chloe was doing other things that had nothing to do with Clark´s secret: helping MF

Now while i don´t think that Chloe has an obsesion over Clark´s secret she knows how important he is for the world!! how can you not be obsesive with something that big!

[Fallen One]

While i consider Lois and Clark the greatest love story of all time, i think Smallville has given us a totally different story, and in this stoy Chloe is the best friend he will ever have
When neither Pete nor Chloe knew Clark's secret, it was Pete who was his best friend. Only after Pete moved away and Chloe found out the secret did she and Clark's friendship blossom. The secret is what bonded them. And now that they don't have that, it'll be interesting to see how close they will remain. Without the secret I think Lana, Lois, Oliver, and others are already closer to Clark than she is.

I'll just say I disagree with you that Chloe, a mere friend, will be a better friend than Clark's own wife- the woman he shares everything with including his bed. In my opinion the order goes like this as far as closest to Clark:

1. Lois (his wife, his heart, his all)
2. The Kents
3. Diana (Wonder Woman) and Bruce (The Batman). (His best, most loyal, trusting, and honorable superhero friends. Friends he'll spend lifetimes with. Friends he goes to war with)
4. The Legion of Superheroes.
5. Other JLeaguers
6. Lana
7. Either Jimmy or Chloe.

Having skipped everything but the basics of your reply, I'm going to say this. A.) MOD EDIT B.) If DC and the WB had a problem with Chloe knowing, she never would've known to begin with. MOD EDIT
The WB want to line up the story to its proper endpoint. A story without Chloe knowing the secret. If they didn't, do you think the producers would remove the secret from Chloe? The producers love Chloe, they go on and on about her. Something obviously changed this summer. Its mythos now. Thats what has me excited.

And I don't feel I blew your quote out of proportion. You basically said that SV should forsake the Superman mythology and do things their own way. To which, the show would get cancelled, the producers will get fired, and everything else I said. There are rules and guildlines they have to follow. They do not have total control over Smallville.

Thanks James, keep up the good work buddy.

[unfocused]

Then Clark need´s to be pushed too.....because if he wouldn´t he will probably be winning about Lana :rolleyes:
Not only is Clark being pushed, he's pushing himself. That's one of the reasons I agree with his controversial decision, and it's a point I've been arguing for weeks now :)

Now while i don´t think that Chloe has an obsesion over Clark´s secret she knows how important he is for the world!! how can you not be obsesive with something that big!

Ask Lana. Or Pete. Or whoever you want to, just don't ask Chloe ;)

[Hopefulsuicide]

I was arguing this exact point just after Abyss. TPTB chose to go in the direction that's best for the character. There was no way Chloe could still know the secret and just go on without being in Clark's way. Chloe has always been clingy to Clark. I mean damn, when she was pining for him in the early seasons, she couldn't even get the picture that he wasn't interested. She was pathetic and I felt real pity for the girl. I just wanted to yell in her ear "GO away, Clark doesn't want you!"


Yes. As I said above, Chloe is borderline obsessive when it comes to Clark and his secret. She would never let him go, not on her own. So, the writers gave her a push :)

have you ever had an unrequited love?

it was one of the biggest reasons i connected to Chloe so strongly, and continue to do so. in my teens (and her teens) the love is a crush, and it is silly and school girl and you pour over pictures of each other and you write sweet little letters and get incredibly upset when you see them kissing another girl, especially if they dont tell you about it...

...and then you grow up, and it's not that the love goes away (cause it never will with the love of your life) but you sort of grow accustomed to it and it becomes a simple feeling. it's not that you want them anymore, or yearn for them, but you simply LOVE them, love everything about them and try to give them everything they deserve from you as a friend. you tell them off when you think they are wrong, you push them to be better than they are and you keep them company when they are down

do you move on and find another man? yes, and that can work out beautifully, especially if the man is willing to give you everything you ever dreamed of - security, adoration and passion.

i don't think there was anything pathetic about Chloe or the way she handled her feelings. she is simply a lovely girl who loves Clark very much and cares a great deal about him.

learning the secret did a few things, some of which i didn't like, some of which i did.

she began to see him as better than other men, above them. telling him he was amazing i found a little unsettling. but in between moments like this were wonderful ones like 'superwhining' where she would put him back in his place, humanising him again

never once have we heard Chloe say something that encouraged him to be lazy or dependant on her. in fact a lot of the time she seemed annoyed that he was so reliant. when he would snap at her for not having found anything yet, or when she accused him of having her as his own personal search engine

Chloe being around and knowing the secret did not make Clark dependant on her, he is simply a dependant person.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

When neither Pete nor Chloe knew Clark's secret, it was Pete who was his best friend. Only after Pete moved away and Chloe found out the secret did she and Clark's friendship blossom. The secret is what bonded them. And now that they don't have that, it'll be interesting to see how close they will remain. Without the secret I think Lana, Lois, Oliver, and others are already closer to Clark than she is.

I'll just say I disagree with you that Chloe, a mere friend, will be a better friend than Clark's own wife- the woman he shares everything with including his bed. In my opinion the order goes like this as far as closest to Clark:

1. Lois (his wife, his heart, his all)
2. The Kents
3. Diana (Wonder Woman) and Bruce (The Batman). (His best, most loyal, trusting, and honorable superhero friends. Friends he'll spend lifetimes with. Friends he goes to war with)
4. The Legion of Superheroes.
5. Other JLeaguers
6. Lana
7. Either Jimmy or Chloe.
.

i think you entirely just missed my point... i said IN SMALLVILLE we have a totally different story, in which Chloe is the best friend he could ever had

Pete was Clark's best friend, but i believe Chloe has been a better friend to him

let me just make sure you understand the difference between the two things i am saying

Pete and Clark - hung around together since a young age, grew up together, pete was his confident for 2 seasons, then scarpered cause he couldnt handle the pressure and danger

Chloe - has given Clark much more friendship and has not run away from him. she is the one person in his life who hasn't left him...

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----



The WB want to line up the story to its proper endpoint. A story without Chloe knowing the secret. If they didn't, do you think the producers would remove the secret from Chloe? The producers love Chloe, they go on and on about her. Something obviously changed this summer. Its mythos now. Thats what has me excited.

And I don't feel I blew your quote out of proportion. You basically said that SV should forsake the Superman mythology and do things their own way. To which, the show would get cancelled, the producers will get fired, and everything else I said. There are rules and guildlines they have to follow. They do not have total control over Smallville.

Thanks James, keep up the good work buddy.

in fairness, if they want to line up completely, they have to kill her, cause in the superman mythos she doesnt even exist

btw though, i'd prefer it if they had killed her off... at least she would have dyed a hero, instead of living a lie

[unfocused]

I'll just say I disagree with you that Chloe, a mere friend, will be a better friend than Clark's own wife- the woman he shares everything with including his bed.
I agree with you here, 100%
Smallville is unlikely to go so far as to show us the iconic Superman/Lois Lane relationship, but it's obvious to me that Clark and Lois will become best friends, maybe even lovers, on this show. Definitely a far greater relationship than Clark and Chloe has ever had. So far, we're on that road heading in the right direction :)


1. Lois (his wife, his heart, his all)
2. The Kents
3. Diana (Wonder Woman) and Bruce (The Batman). (His best, most loyal, trusting, and honorable superhero friends. Friends he'll spend lifetimes with. Friends he goes to war with)
4. The Legion of Superheroes.
5. Other JLeaguers
6. Lana
7. Either Jimmy or Chloe.

That is an undeniable list there :)

You basically said that SV should forsake the Superman mythology and do things their own way. To which, the show would get cancelled, the producers will get fired, and everything else I said. There are rules and guildlines they have to follow. They do not have total control over Smallville.
Fact.

PS3 and the writers are smart enough to know how this story ends (with Superman, the greatest hero of all time). And I highly doubt they'd change that. I won't speak for millions of other fans, but I do believe they will agree with me when I say I would prefer Smallville to stay on track with the mythology as opposed to altering it in there own way without any regards to the mythology.

----- Added 9 Minutes later -----

Unrequited love, schoolgirl crush, obsession, whatever you want to call it. Chloe just could not possibly let Clark go. Clark pushed himself away from Lana in Hypnotic for her own well being, so calling him "dependent" is wrong. Lana even pushed Clark away for his own well being. Chloe would never do that for Clark. So Clark had to do it for her.

[Just Another Guy]

MOD EDIT

[Hopefulsuicide]

MOD EDIT

there are many people who agreed with the decision and many who didnt. the odd thing is, these two categories include people who are fans of the mythos and fans of Chloe on both camps

MOD EDIT

our fear that she would be given a lesser role or gotten rid of was because of our love of the character

unfocused, yours and others acceptance that 'ah she'll be happy now' is very optimistic in a show like Smallville

[Diego*Chloe]

there are many people who agreed with the decision and many who didnt. the odd thing is, these two categories include people who are fans of the mythos and fans of Chloe on both camps

MOD EDIT
our fear that she would be given a lesser role or gotten rid of was because of our love of the character

unfocused, yours and others acceptance that 'ah she'll be happy now' is very optimistic in a show like Smallville

heeeeey i´m a passionate Chloe fan too!!!! :lol:

Yeah haven´t you learn anything Unfocused: pple here(SV) dosen´t end up happy :rolleyes:

[unfocused]

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[Hopefulsuicide]

actually that quote was not smallville bashing at all... i enjoy that the show always takes a turn for the worse, and that the characters are never safe to have a happy ending... i would find it horrible if chloe had a happy storyline for the rest of the show... ever character needs some drama, its what makes the show

MOD EDIT

my posts are quite frequently questioning Clark's methods and Smallville techniques, but i really dont see how that means i don't love chloe's character...

[unfocused]

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[Hopefulsuicide]

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[unfocused]

Wow calm down, way too many wows.

You're obviously missing my point. Read that last quote of mine again, in your post. Particularly the "trying to pass that off as" part :)

[Hopefulsuicide]

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[unfocused]

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[Just Another Guy]

I'm beginning to think you're not even a fan of Chloe. You seem more... anti-mythology. Not that it's a bad thing.

And if PS3 are watching, I'm more than positive that they are happy that Cedric and I are enjoying the show this gosh darn much :lol: But don't worry, I'm sure they feel bad for you though.
I'm not anti-mythology. I've said before (lightheartedly) that Smallville sort of beat the Superman story to pieces. (Meaning that they changed so much of it. I was talking to my sisters. They knew what I meant.) However, they've done it a creative way and it's grown on me even more over the years. I happen to enjoy seeing how they are managing to line up their very different version with the traditional version, slowly but surely. The problem is this (and listen carefully now): they can't sacrifice the roles, respect, and reasoning of Smallville's unique mythology for Superman's. They've always tried to be original, and this season is beginning to prove that they can be faithful at the same time. But Chloe need not and should not be sacrificed for the sake of Superman's loneliness. If the writers want Chloe out of his life (which is a bit far-fetched, IMO, anyway), they should let the two branch off onto their own happy trails.

Clark Kent traditionally keeps in touch with Lana Lang. Why should Chloe be any different? Because she can't leave him alone, you say? All right. Then give her a reason to. Let her correspondence with the JL open another door. Give her a mission of her own. Let Clark be an encouraging force in her decision to pursue such a path. Don't throw their partnership out the window. Make it something special. Leave the doors open at the end of the series for her to be an honorary JL member, an ally who'll be there if they need her, a contact who can help them when she can.

By the by, you're not enjoying the show any more than I am whatsoever. I'm only concerned with the direction they've taken for Chloe. Should this continue, it will hinder my enjoyment in the rest of the season. So far, it's been great. And I'm holding my breath that they'll manage to repair this problem.

[Hopefulsuicide]

MOD EDIT

hmm, i dont recall ever saying that at all...

i have NEVER presented that i disliked Clark's decision because Chloe is my favourite character...

i dislike clark's decision because it is immoral, it is an abuse of power, it upsets me as a women that she was controlled in that way and not respected enough to make her own decisions, and there is no real safety gained from it

i have written on this forum almost every day since abyss aired about the above... and never have i said 'how could they do this to my fave girl chloe'

this incident has nothing to do with my love of chloe, it has to do with my love of Clark Kent as a hero, just not Smallvilles version of him, as well of the rights of EVERY human being

[unfocused]

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[Just Another Guy]

MOD EDIT
MOD EDIT I know exactly how much I've enjoyed the show so far, and it's been immensely. This is a terrific season. But I can also tell you that what they did to Chloe is one of (if not the only) thing they've ever done to really disappoint me. (If it's permanent; if not, all's forgiven.)

As for me being in a "good mood," it just so happens that I joined this forum because of "Abyss." I just couldn't sit by without voicing my opinion, and I'll continue to do so until I (hopefully) see a turnaround in the future. If they don't let me down, I suppose you'll see more of these :) and fewer of these :( or these :mad:.

[unfocused]

hmm, i dont recall ever saying that at all...

i have NEVER presented that i disliked Clark's decision because Chloe is my favourite character...

i dislike clark's decision because it is immoral, it is an abuse of power, it upsets me as a women that she was controlled in that way and not respected enough to make her own decisions, and there is no real safety gained from it

i have written on this forum almost every day since abyss aired about the above... and never have i said 'how could they do this to my fave girl chloe'

this incident has nothing to do with my love of chloe, it has to do with my love of Clark Kent as a hero, just not Smallvilles version of him, as well of the rights of EVERY human being
MOD EDIT

And as for morals. Clark has great morals. And his decision in Abyss proves this. He considered Chloe's immediate and long term safety and well being above her selfish decision and poor judgment. Something Heroes do; put safety and well being ABOVE everything else.

So what if it doesn't seem like it to you? I know exactly how much I've enjoyed the show so far, and it's been immensely.

And I still don't see it. But hey, I'll take your word for it. And I'll agree, this season has been great.

[Just Another Guy]

And I still don't see it. But hey, I'll take your word for it. And I'll agree, this season has been great.
MOD EDIT But hey, we're all honest people around here, right? ;)

[unfocused]

Too bad you weren't around here three months ago, when I was the sole person defending Chloe in a huge debate where some people actually claimed she was the reason for the poor ratings. Among other stuff.

MOD EDIT

But like I said, you say you like it, I'll just take your word for it :)

[fuchsiaRose]

PS3 could have erased Chloe's memories in so many ways. Instead they chose to morally taint their lead by having him play God.

I'm not down with that. I'm not even a "chloe supporter" but I thought it was wrong the second I heard about it in the spoilers section a while back.

[unfocused]

Don't worry. Not everyone thinks the lead was morally tainted :)

Also, it sounds so ironically satisfying that Clark "plays God" on Chloe, the very person that told him he'd have to "play God" someday :lol:

[fuchsiaRose]

Don't worry. Not everyone thinks the lead was morally tainted :)
Gee, well I wasn't worried before, but now I am! People not thinking Clark is morally tainted would be a surprise if there weren't people who still think Chlois is real or Lana is a saint. :rolleyes:

Also, it sounds so ironically satisfying that Clark "plays God" on Chloe, the very person that told him he'd have to "play God" someday :lol:
Excuse me while I don't laugh at the prospect of a childhood idol of mine being morally tainted.

Seriously PS3, what were you thinking? Or were you even thinking at all? :confused:

Next time when I come across a problem instead of asking What would Jesus do? I'm just gonna stare at my SV dvds and ask: What would Clark Kent, Mr. God himself, do? :rolleyes:

[unfocused]

So putting Chloe's safety and well being above her poor judgment is morally wrong? That's like saying Chloe "killing" Sebastian was morally right :lol:

By the way, PS3 have been doing a fantastic job ;)

[Fallen One]

have you ever had an unrequited love?
Nope.

If I wanted a girl I went after her. If I couldn't get her, I didn't whine about it or try to guilt her into liking me the way Chloe did. That solves nothing. If someone doesn't want you, they just don't want you.

i think you entirely just missed my point... i said IN SMALLVILLE we have a totally different story, in which Chloe is the best friend he could ever had
And what I'm saying is that Smallville is just a small part of Clark's life and that he will go on to bigger and better things and friends. And that Chloe is far from irreplacable.

You don't believe that Smallville will be the end all, be all of his life right? He'll spend 19 years in Smallville. He'll spend thousands in Metropolis. Smallville is a blip on his rader to be honest.

Pete was Clark's best friend, but i believe Chloe has been a better friend to him
When Pete found out the secret he didn't hang around Clark trying to tell him how to be a hero or thinking that he half of some superhero duo the Chloe did. He let Clark do his thing and was ok to do so. Chloe got so enthusastic that she forced herself into every bit of Clark's heroic life and did everything I said Pete didn't do. Clark no longer was the solo hero. He had his computer weilding buddy to answer all the questions that he never needed someone to answer before in seasons 1-4. Thats what disgusted me with the scoobying and why I am happy to see the writers completely kill it.

But thanks be to the WB, DCU, and PS3. Somebody heard the concerns Clark fans and made the decision to change things. Somebody recongnized what was wrong and fixed it. Somebody thought of Clark first. Now Clark can go on with journey the way he should, and Chloe can live out her own life.

Chloe - has given Clark much more friendship and has not run away from him. she is the one person in his life who hasn't left him...
She will leave him too...

in fairness, if they want to line up completely, they have to kill her, cause in the superman mythos she doesnt even exist
And that is how she will leave him.


our fear that she would be given a lesser role or gotten rid of was because of our love of the character

That is a valid fear and I do think it will happen. I think the second half of the second will focus on mythos characters. I'm sure Chloe will play a role in a everything, I just don't see her being a focal point.

[Just Another Guy]

So putting Chloe's safety and well being above her poor judgment is morally wrong? That's like saying Chloe "killing" Sebastian was morally right :lol:

By the way, PS3 have been doing a fantastic job ;)
Poor judgment? :mad: This is getting on my last nerve. Now you're not even trying to give the girl any respect. And I've said it time and time again, but Clark's powers don't give him the right to go mindwiping people. Would you have been so happy if he had done it to his parents? Or if Chloe had taken it upon herself to erase Lana's memory? Or Pete's? Or Lionel's? This is not a choice anyone else is given. Chloe's mind is her own, and Clark has taken away her free will. He's made her choices for her, and completely altered who she is.

MOD EDIT

When Pete found out the secret he didn't hang around Clark trying to tell him how to be a hero or thinking that he half of some superhero duo the Chloe did. He let Clark do his thing and was ok to do so. Chloe got so enthusastic that she forced herself into every bit of Clark's heroic life and did everything I said Pete didn't do. Clark no longer was the solo hero. He had his computer weilding buddy to answer all the questions that he never needed someone to answer before in seasons 1-4. Thats what disgusted me with the scoobying and why I am happy to see the writers completely kill it.

But thanks be to the WB, DCU, and PS3. Somebody heard the concerns Clark fans and made the decision to change things. Somebody recongnized what was wrong and fixed it. Somebody thought of Clark first. Now Clark can go on with journey the way he should, and Chloe can live out her own life.
So if Chloe's memories are restored, what exactly are you going to say then? You seem to be setting this up as the perfect outcome for your tastes, but they may be setting you up for disappointment. ;) Here's hoping, for Chloe's sake.

As I already said, TPTB obviously care about Chloe. So I'm praying they'll treat her with more dignity than so many of you would like to see.

[RedKRules]

This thread makes me laugh because I know Clark´s memories bleaching won´t stick!! :lol:

[fuchsiaRose]

So putting Chloe's safety and well being above her poor judgment is morally wrong? That's like saying Chloe "killing" Sebastian was morally right :lol:

Uh, no, I thought this was established already. Playing God by CHOOSING what memories Chloe can keep is what is morally wrong. And I don't see what Chloe killing Sebastian has anything to do with this... :rolleyes:


By the way, PS3 have been doing a fantastic job ;)
On certain aspects, yes, but here they messed up ROYALLY!

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

Poor judgment? :mad: This is getting on my last nerve. Now you're not even trying to give the girl any respect. And I've said it time and time again, but Clark's powers don't give him the right to go mindwiping people. Would you have been so happy if he had done it to his parents? Or if Chloe had taken it upon herself to erase Lana's memory? Or Pete's? Or Lionel's? This is not a choice anyone else is given. Chloe's mind is her own, and Clark has taken away her free will. He's made her choices for her, and completely altered who she is.
Exactly, it's basic mindrape. I mean after this episode I can see this Clark in 10 years married to Lois and then thinking, "Hey maybe I should just mindrape her too because her knowing my identity is just getting too dangerous."

*shudders*

You put those thoughts in my mind PS3! And now I'm so mad I could punch a puppy! Oh god, I'm Lana now!!! Ahhhhhh!!!

Big mistake, PS3. Big mistake!

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

This thread makes me laugh because I know Clark´s memories bleaching won´t stick!! :lol:

The point isn't whether it will or will not stick. The point is that they have morally tainted the Clark Kent character.

[RingzTerritory]

Considering the fact that chloe doesn't even exist in any story of Clark kent and is no comic that Smallville has based it's story line on and was in no superman movie and just plain doesn't exist within this myth I would prefer Clark's father to just erase all of her memory of clark to begin with and everyone related to him and then erase all of Clark's memory of this girl, who doesn't exist in his world.
Chloe is about as important as an extra on Smallville to me, I hope they finally kill her this season. Or just make her go away somewhere since killing her seems to not work.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Nope.

If I wanted a girl I went after her. If I couldn't get her, I didn't whine about it or try to guilt her into liking me the way Chloe did. That solves nothing. If someone doesn't want you, they just don't want you.

.

well then i completely understand why you don't connect to the character. just different people i guess. or possibly it's a girl thing, i don't know. i have a history of falling very deeply in love with people i simply cannot have. i get how she feels for Clark.


And what I'm saying is that Smallville is just a small part of Clark's life and that he will go on to bigger and better things and friends. And that Chloe is far from irreplacable.

You don't believe that Smallville will be the end all, be all of his life right? He'll spend 19 years in Smallville. He'll spend thousands in Metropolis. Smallville is a blip on his rader to be honest..

agreed. smallville is not that important to the superman mythos at all. but it is his childhood... and usually is quite significant. you never forget the friends you had when you were at that age IMO.



When Pete found out the secret he didn't hang around Clark trying to tell him how to be a hero or thinking that he half of some superhero duo the Chloe did. He let Clark do his thing and was ok to do so. Chloe got so enthusastic that she forced herself into every bit of Clark's heroic life and did everything I said Pete didn't do. Clark no longer was the solo hero. He had his computer weilding buddy to answer all the questions that he never needed someone to answer before in seasons 1-4. Thats what disgusted me with the scoobying and why I am happy to see the writers completely kill it. ..

but i see that as Chloe being a better hero, and a better friend than Pete. it showed how much she enjoys helping people and being proactive, how much she loved being part of something so huge. if i was to give her a direction it would have been working with Oliver, because i do think she was too close to Clark for him to be a solo hero. but i never would have ripped half her life away and had her being nothing more than mrs james olsen




She will leave him too...


And that is how she will leave him.


That is a valid fear and I do think it will happen. I think the second half of the second will focus on mythos characters. I'm sure Chloe will play a role in a everything, I just don't see her being a focal point.

i dont think we disagree in the sense that he needed to find an independant footing. we just disagree that this was the right way to go about it.

p.s. at this point i hope they dont kill her off now, cause it'll just give Clark's 'she's in danger' arguement more fuel one way or the other... if she knows clark secret again when she dies, people will be saying he was right all along... if she doesnt, people will be saying she died cause he took the secret... it'll be a big mess

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Exactly, it's basic mindrape. I mean after this episode I can see this Clark in 10 years married to Lois and then thinking, "Hey maybe I should just mindrape her too because her knowing my identity is just getting too dangerous."


seriously, dont want threads closed cause of using words that people could be very sensitive too... just find another way of expressing it, i have!

[RingzTerritory]

but i see that as Chloe being a better hero, and a better friend than Pete. it showed how much she enjoys helping people and being proactive, how much she loved being part of something so huge. if i was to give her a direction it would have been working with Oliver, because i do think she was too close to Clark for him to be a solo hero. but i never would have ripped half her life away and had her being nothing more than mrs james olsen


No it showed how much she tries to run Clark Kents life, and it showed that she can't be trusted or respected when knowing his secret since she wants to play back seat hero with it, the reason why Lois and Clark work is even with Lois knowing his secret (not in smallville yet) is she remained the same person and the reason I'd like Pete around rather than Chloe is because pete remained the same Pete and didn't revovle his whole world around clark and his secret and didn't tell clark how to do whatever and when to do it like he was his father or something.

Chloe needs to go already, she doesn't even exist in clark kents life at all, and she is just an overall worthless, useless waste of camera time that could be used on characters in the Superman/CK story that were actually in the story.

Even Jimmy olsen is more important and has more of a point of being in Smallville than this Chloe, lol. She is not a hero and she is not a good friend, she's an obsessive little girl with a sick stalker type of obsession with Clark that's just plain disturbing, no wonder he doesn't want her, she's obsessed with him. lol

[Bizarrolover]

No it showed how much she tries to run Clark Kents life, and it showed that she can't be trusted or respected when knowing his secret since she wants to play back seat hero with it, the reason why Lois and Clark work is even with Lois knowing his secret (not in smallville yet) is she remained the same person and the reason I'd like Pete around rather than Chloe is because pete remained the same Pete and didn't revovle his whole world around clark and his secret and didn't tell clark how to do whatever and when to do it like he was his father or something.



You made an excellent point, one that I never thought about before. Unlike Pete, both Chloe and Lana changed who they were because of Clark's secret. Lana turned into some sort of ninja Catwoman with shady methods and dubious intentions and Chloe declined journalism to become Clark's personal search engine, hacking into private and government site without caring of the consequences. I'm not saying their intentions aren't good, ultimately they wanted to help, but, in different ways, they both declined some of the values they stood up for in the earlier seasons.

[Hopefulsuicide]

No it showed how much she tries to run Clark Kents life, and it showed that she can't be trusted or respected when knowing his secret since she wants to play back seat hero with it, the reason why Lois and Clark work is even with Lois knowing his secret (not in smallville yet) is she remained the same person and the reason I'd like Pete around rather than Chloe is because pete remained the same Pete and didn't revovle his whole world around clark and his secret and didn't tell clark how to do whatever and when to do it like he was his father or something.

Chloe needs to go already, she doesn't even exist in clark kents life at all, and she is just an overall worthless, useless waste of camera time that could be used on characters in the Superman/CK story that were actually in the story.

Even Jimmy olsen is more important and has more of a point of being in Smallville than this Chloe, lol. She is not a hero and she is not a good friend, she's an obsessive little girl with a sick stalker type of obsession with Clark that's just plain disturbing, no wonder he doesn't want her, she's obsessed with him. lol

i'm not sure how to reply to this blatant attack on Chloe as a character

i'll start by saying that there are no examples of Chloe trying to run his life. that is what Jor-el does, not Chloe. secondly she didn't play back seat hero with his secret... she had her own secrets to be a hero with. she saved lois, she saved clark and lex... it was her own abilities that made her a hero there.

and when she helped Clark it was simply a matter of conveinience. he would come to her needing some computer help because he is not as good with computers as he is, and she would oblige and find the information. she would give him gentle and sometimes firm advice about very serious situations because he is her friend and she cares about him.

Pete didn't change because he had always been in Clark's shadow and simply couldnt get out from under it. then look what happened in hero when he did! he went a little nuts with the power... Chloe has been a much better person and a much better friend.

as to the following comments:

overall worthless, useless waste of camera time

she's an obsessive little girl with a sick stalker type of obsession with Clark that's just plain disturbing, no wonder he doesn't want her, she's obsessed with him. lol

just gonna have to agree to disagree with you there. i enjoy chloe's character. you don't. your choice.

i personally feel that of all the things to come out of Smallville i will remember Chloe as the most worthwile. i don't feel they have added anything to my enjoyment of Clark Kent or Lois Lane. Lex Luthor was dealt with in a new and fun way and i think the kents where also given lovely depth, but for the most part Smallville hasn't improved the Superman story for me.

However, i now have a new character, who i very much respect and enjoy watching, and i think they have done a wonderful job with her over the years.

[Just Another Guy]

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[unfocused]

Poor judgment? :mad: This is getting on my last nerve. Now you're not even trying to give the girl any respect. And I've said it time and time again, but Clark's powers don't give him the right to go mindwiping people. Would you have been so happy if he had done it to his parents? Or if Chloe had taken it upon herself to erase Lana's memory? Or Pete's? Or Lionel's? This is not a choice anyone else is given. Chloe's mind is her own, and Clark has taken away her free will. He's made her choices for her, and completely altered who she is.
Good. Now she has a second chance at making better judgments later on in life. She should be thanking Clark ;)

Uh, no, I thought this was established already. Playing God by CHOOSING what memories Chloe can keep is what is morally wrong. And I don't see what Chloe killing Sebastian has anything to do with this... :rolleyes:
But saving Chloe's life isn't morally right? So Clark is "morally tainted" even though he saved her life and did her a favor in her own interests?

Exactly, it's basic mindrape.
Are you intentionally trying to get this thread closed? It's called a mindwipe, let's be a little more considerate and just use it's technical term, k? :)

MOD EDIT

agreed. smallville is not that important to the superman mythos at all. but it is his childhood... and usually is quite significant. you never forget the friends you had when you were at that age IMO.
If Smallville is "quite significant" to the Superman mytho's, then you obviously do think it's important to the Superman mythos. Rightfully so, actually. 8 years of live-action storylines of a part of the mythos that have never been told... is pretty darn important. And yet another reason I love Smallville :)

[Hopefulsuicide]

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[unfocused]

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I can see why it scares you, but I feel as long as the issues are addressed, such as the Lana/Clark conversation but more of it, it would also be accepted that controversial decisions would not go unquestioned. I do believe controversy is an important part to the Superman story. It has to be, because Superman is so powerful and so needs to make the big, tough, complicated decision every now and then.

Such as in the case of Abyss, controversy get's the audiences attention. And whether you or I like it or not, Clark's decision was not only good for the show from a ratings perspective, but good for the character. I feel Clark needs to make the hard decisions, wrong or right, else he wouldn't be worthy of being my Superman.

[Hopefulsuicide]

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I can see why it scares you, but I feel as long as the issues are addressed, such as the Lana/Clark conversation but more of it, it would also be accepted that controversial decisions would not go unquestioned. I do believe controversy is an important part to the Superman story. It has to be, because Superman is so powerful and so needs to make the big, tough, complicated decision every now and then.

Such as in the case of Abyss, controversy get's the audiences attention. And whether you or I like it or not, Clark's decision was not only good for the show from a ratings perspective, but good for the character. I feel Clark needs to make the hard decisions, wrong or right, else he wouldn't be worthy of being my Superman.

no i stated this myself in another thread, that i thought the writers had been very clever in putting is this controversy in the air as it has sparked so much discussion.

i also think that when/if it is properly adressed it will mostly be all forgiven

i know he's still not superman yet, so i allow for him making bad decisions for a little while longer, as long as he is told off/made to realise that they ARE decisions that are not ALL good

[unfocused]

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[Hopefulsuicide]

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[claudiss]

You have to remember that this show has a massive following that doesn't know or care about DC mythology.

exactly. I´m one of those people! I´ve never read comics or ever will ...I´m all for SV and Tom devotion.

MOD EDIT(quote edited out)
I´m a Chloe fan and I´m not ok with the 'chloe is now free and happy' at all. I just want her to be happy with her own terms not clark´s.

I'm only concerned with the direction they've taken for Chloe. Should this continue, it will hinder my enjoyment in the rest of the season. So far, it's been great. And I'm holding my breath that they'll manage to repair this problem.

me too:(

btw I think PS3 are doing a great job, (minus the mindwip obviously) but PLEASE why did you have to take away Chloe´s memories? 4 years in blank? I really think if you´re wise enough Chloe will have those memories back ;) and then wow...what a storyline!

and I really don´t care what "chloe should forget, chloe should die " people says...it´s their opinion but please it´s just that...don´t make them facts. I´m here to say my opinion, no one will make me change that.

ps. sorry for my english

[unfocused]

I´m a Chloe fan and I´m not ok with the 'chloe is now free and happy' at all. I just want her to be happy with her own terms not clark´s.

Then why aren't you happy that she won't revolve her life around Clark's secret? :confused:

[Hopefulsuicide]

because it's not on her terms... i think their statement made that pretty clear :confused:

[unfocused]

That doesn't change the fact that she now has the opportunity to determine how she lives her own life, without obsessing over Clark's secret and adjusting her life to fit in with his.

[Hopefulsuicide]

but if it were up to her, she would live her life helping clark... so she doesnt have the opportunity to determine how she lives her life

[unfocused]

Yes she does.

[Hopefulsuicide]

no she doesnt

[Just Another Guy]

MOD EDIT

[unfocused]

no she doesnt
Yes she does.

MOD EDIT

[Just Another Guy]

MOD EDIT

[Hopefulsuicide]

Yes she does.




:lol: i wish all our arguements were this simple... it's so much more fun :p

[unfocused]

I have to admit, I did giggle when you first replied to me :p

MOD EDIT

[Hopefulsuicide]

I have to admit, I did giggle when you first replied to me :p



well ill confess i giggled when reading it, and am now giggling that you giggled

it is nice to have a bit of humour refreshment... sometimes it feels like if this forum were a face to face discussion people would be screaming at each other :lol:

[Just Another Guy]

Actually, if this forum were a face to face discussion, we'd all get along a lot better. It's hard to understand the emotion behind someone's statement when it's nothing but text on a screen.

[unfocused]

And emoticons are so silly that they sometimes can't express or explain an opinion perfectly.

[Just Another Guy]

And emoticons are so silly that they sometimes can't express or explain an opinion perfectly.
True.

See how well we're getting along already? :D

No, sorry, that one's too happy. Here: :)

Too much? :\

How about this guy? :(

Maybe this? :cool:

I can't decide! :eek:

[Hopefulsuicide]

:p

that's me being cute btw

[Just Another Guy]

:p

that's me being cute btw
Wow, you are cute, Becky. Can I call you Becky? What are you doing over the weekend?

;) <<< That's me being a flirt, btw. :D

[unfocused]

Where is the "me being disgusted" emote?

[Hopefulsuicide]

:lol:

just another guy - that's some very good flirting! :lol:

unfocused: shhh, you scrooge :p though i am surprised there is no puking emoticon!

anyway, shouldnt we get back to trying to rip each others throats out?

i'll kick it off with a round of...

i'm starting to think that Clark's decision may show that he doesnt consider women equal. he didnt restore chloe memories to protect her, and he suggested that maybe he should have done the same to Lana

but would he ever do that to a man? would he do it Ollie? or AC? or Bart?

[Just Another Guy]

:lol:

just another guy - that's some very good flirting! :lol:

unfocused: shhh, you scrooge :p though i am surprised there is no puking emoticon!
Actually, I think I've seen one on another forum somewhere. It's pretty... gross.

[unfocused]

i'm starting to think that Clark's decision may show that he doesnt consider women equal. he didnt restore chloe memories to protect her, and he suggested that maybe he should have done the same to Lana

but would he ever do that to a man? would he do it Ollie? or AC? or Bart?

I don't know. The mindwipe didn't come across to me as an equality of gender issue for Clark.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I don't know. The mindwipe didn't come across to me as an equality of gender issue for Clark.

maybe cause your not a woman :\

:lol: i dunno, it hit me as a woman thing. and i think it would hit Lois in the same way

can you imagine Lois' reaction if he did that to her? i can just picture her tirade :lol:

Clark: i did it to protect you

Lois: yeah well who asked you to? i'm not some helpless little women Clark, i don't need to be saved

Clark: but people who know my secret keep getting hurt and i thought it would keep happening to you too

Lois: oh for goodness sake Clark, i don't know if you've noticed but trouble seems to follow me around like a bad smell. having me forget stuff isn't going to change that

Clark: but at least you would be safe

Lois: do i have to hit you over the head with something? i don't want to be safe, i want to be out in the world making a difference... whether you like it or not!


i almost wish they had done it to her :)

[unfocused]

So... Lois turns this into a gender thing? Even with your example, I don't see Clark saying anything like "you're too weak to protect yourself like a man would." More like Lois saying "I'm not a helpless little woman."

Oh wait.. Lois did say that :p

[Hopefulsuicide]

:lol: well no he would never say it, but my hypotethetical Lois reacts this way because it is insulting to women to protect them in such a degrading way

[unfocused]

Ah, I see what you mean.

Very different point of views women and men have. Whereas you see Clark protecting Lois in a degrading way, and I just see Clark protecting Lois.

[Hopefulsuicide]

well it's not all women... just women who grew up with Lois Lane as a role model :p

[unfocused]

Yeah, Lois is a fighter. Which explains a lot ;)

[Hopefulsuicide]

well Lois also respects men who can give just as good as she can :)

hmm i'm so in the mood for Lois and Clark now...

i will say one thing though, i think in all his life Superman never respect a woman as much as he did Lois Lane. he respected all women, but i think he valued her opinion over his own a lot of the time.

[xrayvision]

maybe cause your not a woman :\

:lol: i dunno, it hit me as a woman thing. and i think it would hit Lois in the same way

can you imagine Lois' reaction if he did that to her? i can just picture her tirade :lol:

Clark: i did it to protect you

Lois: yeah well who asked you to? i'm not some helpless little women Clark, i don't need to be saved

Clark: but people who know my secret keep getting hurt and i thought it would keep happening to you too

Lois: oh for goodness sake Clark, i don't know if you've noticed but trouble seems to follow me around like a bad smell. having me forget stuff isn't going to change that

Clark: but at least you would be safe

Lois: do i have to hit you over the head with something? i don't want to be safe, i want to be out in the world making a difference... whether you like it or not!


i almost wish they had done it to her :)

This really isn't an equality issue by any means. Had Chloe been a guy (or had it been Jimmy) Clark would have done the same thing given the same circumstances. Don't forget that Chloe was being used as an instrument against Clark by Brainiac. She also chose using her own free will to kill to protect Clark's secret, something he would absolutely not allowed her to do. She hid the fact that she killed that guy from Clark. So Clark had all the right to do what he did so she didn't murder anyone else in his name.

Chloe was more involved with Clark's secret than anyone except for Clark himself & his parents. Pete & Lana never got into the situations that Chloe got involved with (though Lana got close, but then she backed off & left). They were never possessed by an alien supercomputer whose goal was to cause the fall of all humanity. I'm certain that Brainiac took over Chloe (without her knowledge) to reprogram the FOS crystal to send Clark to the Phantom Zone (there really is no other plausible explanation).

[Hopefulsuicide]

This really isn't an equality issue by any means. Had Chloe been a guy (or had it been Jimmy) Clark would have done the same thing given the same circumstances. Don't forget that Chloe was being used as an instrument against Clark by Brainiac. She also chose using her own free will to kill to protect Clark's secret, something he would absolutely not allowed her to do. She hid the fact that she killed that guy from Clark. So Clark had all the right to do what he did so she didn't murder anyone else in his name.

uh, he didnt even know about that, so i dont see how you can be using that as one of Clarks 'reasons'

i dont think he would have done the same thing to a man. but maybe your right. maybe it isnt so much that he thinks hes above women, but that he thinks he's above all humans


Chloe was more involved with Clark's secret than anyone except for Clark himself & his parents. Pete & Lana never got into the situations that Chloe got involved with (though Lana got close, but then she backed off & left). They were never possessed by an alien supercomputer whose goal was to cause the fall of all humanity. I'm certain that Brainiac took over Chloe (without her knowledge) to reprogram the FOS crystal to send Clark to the Phantom Zone (there really is no other plausible explanation).

which shows me and should have shown him that he could handle it... that's why i was pissed at Oliver for his little speech at the end of Bloodline...

[xrayvision]

uh, he didnt even know about that, so i dont see how you can be using that as one of Clarks 'reasons'

Yeah. But the thing is we (the audience) know what she did behind his back and how he took her memories. So we know what each character is hiding from the other. Chloe killing that guy is an action Lionel would have done & we all know how Clark reacted to him when he knew Lionel was up to no good.

i dont think he would have done the same thing to a man. but maybe your right. maybe it isnt so much that he thinks hes above women, but that he thinks he's above all humans

I don't think that's his point of view. He considers his secret & all that is tied to it his responsibility, and it is. He doesn't believe others should bear the burden of his secret to the point where it ruins their life. And that's what's been happening to Chloe. Her loyalty prevented her from writing stories that could have exposed Clark's secret, ending her journalism career. Her hacking (which she did for Clark) also gave Lex something to hold over her head & resulted in her ending up in that cell in Montana (or wherever that facility was). I think that is a very Superman-like quality of his.

which shows me and should have shown him that he could handle it... that's why i was pissed at Oliver for his little speech at the end of Bloodline...

I'm assuming you meant she (as in Chloe). I agree with Ollie though. She had abilities & was possessed by technology that no human was meant to understand or even deal with. That's the same reason he & not a human had to unite the stones & create the FOS. We have seen so many consequences of humans and others interacting with alien elements in this show (like Jonathan dealing with Jor-El, Lana getting Clark's powers, Lex getting possessed by Zod, Eric Summers getting Clark's powers, and so many more examples). That's why Superman is so special. In all these cases where we witness the consequences, we see others taking on Superman's role and how it's just not meant to be. They can not fulfill his role. That is why Superman is needed. No one can take on his role in the way he has to.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I agree that other people having Clark's powers has lead them to abuse the power, and has bad consequences... that's what made CHLOE so special. she got this power and she didnt go crazy with it... she didnt push herself too hard. she only used it when she absolutely had to, and understood completely the price of her abilities

when she got infected by Brainiac is must have been terrifying. she's not silly, she knew that it would end badly. but instead of whining about it, crying about it, she tryed to do her best with it. she used it in a responsible way to save her best friend

she is the best example of a human who CAN handle abilities. she is responsible enough and open minded enough and strong willed enough to deal with everything that comes with it

so i hated Ollie for coming to Clark to lecture him about Chloe behind her back. he should have gone to her if he was concerned about her decision. why on earth did he have the right to go behind her back and tell Clark to do something about it... it's almost like they were plotting against her

i'm sorry, it's just that as a women i feel very strongly about men who try to control women in this way

[RedKRules]

I totally agree with your post, even more with the Ollie´s part, I know Oliver and Chloe worked together in the past, but that doesn´t give him any right whatsoever to talk behind her back like that .... it was totally rude and unnecessary ... because even if he had good intentions at heart, the problem is that he just doesn´t know Chloe Sullivan that well !

[Fat Elvis 007]

i'm sorry, it's just that as a women i feel very strongly about men who try to control women in this way

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds this whole thing misogynistic. Yes, many posters have said that Chloe's gender has nothing to do with it, and I'm sure they believe that. But it's still a storyline revolving around a man taking a woman's rights away for her own good, and you can't deny the sexist overtones there.

I think he probably would have done the same thing to a guy, but that doesn't mean this particular instance doesn't promote sexist ideals. Something doesn't need to intend to be sexist in order to be sexist.

[RedKRules]

I agree with you FatElvis

[Fat Elvis 007]

She also chose using her own free will to kill to protect Clark's secret, something he would absolutely not allowed her to do.

As of now, this is speculation, and it's extremely unlikely.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds this whole thing misogynistic. Yes, many posters have said that Chloe's gender has nothing to do with it, and I'm sure they believe that. But it's still a storyline revolving around a man taking a woman's rights away for her own good, and you can't deny the sexist overtones there.

I think he probably would have done the same thing to a guy, but that doesn't mean this particular instance doesn't promote sexist ideals. Something doesn't need to intend to be sexist in order to be sexist.

absolutely... the whole thing seemed a bit old fashioned

after watching so many shows that promote women's equality and even women's power, it is weird to see a show like Smallville not try to embrace that in this instance. i know our hero isn't a women, so it's not going to be as obviously promoting women's rights, but we are in modern times

when lana got tired of being the damsel of distress, she learned to kick ass. lois is an army brat who can drink any man under the table, and Chloe was shown to be brave enough to take on Lionel Luthor

and yet here, this one time, we have this ridiculous 'man saves the little women from herself' story that doesnt fit at all with the flow of the ideals in the show

[unfocused]

I'm really sorry that some of you think Clark is sexist. You have my deepest sympathy.

Moving on...


She also chose using her own free will to kill to protect Clark's secret, something he would absolutely not allowed her to do.
As of now, this is speculation, and it's extremely unlikely.

Here is the turning point, complete with commentary, in Chloe's and Sebastians scene at the end of Identity:

Chloe: (visiting Sebastian to find out how much he knows about Clark's secret and what his intentions are with that knowledge) "That man who stopped you the other night (Clark), how much of his story did you get through?"

Sebastian: "Let's just say he shouldn't have touched me. Guys like him belong in places like Black Creek."

Chloe: (With an obvious look of concern after finding out how much Sebastian knows about Clark and that he may try to seek revenge on him, proceeds to kill Sebastian)

So, Chloe did go to kill Sebastian to protect Clark's secret. Also, there weren't any signs of BrainIAC in Chloe's decision to murder, so she did that by her own free will. In fact, there have never been any signs that BrainIAC could influence or control Chloe pre-Bride, his only affect on her was the memory loss. BrainIAC needed the power of the Fortress of Solitude to take control of her. MOD EDIT

[Hopefulsuicide]

just because Brainiac didn't show his control, doesn't mean it wasn't there

i personally don't think he was completely controlling her, but the suggestion is still argueable

you can't provide any evidence that Chloe WASN'T being controlled by Brainiac. MOD EDIT

his only effect on her was NOT the memory loss. he affected her ability to understand things. she had power over that crystal too.

there may well have been other effects that we haven't been told about yet. just like cordelia on Angel, Brainiac may have been controlling her actions for a long time... he would have had interest in Isis, learning about meteor freaks. he would have had interest in Davis obviously.

i wouldn't like the storyline, but since Angel used it, i don't see why Smallville couldn't. we could end up with flashbacks, or simply Brainiac (through Chloe) telling Clark that he made her kill someone...

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

I'm really sorry that some of you think Clark is sexist. You have my deepest sympathy.

Moving on...



MOD EDIT

other people may want to continue thinking about whether it was an insult to women. i don't think Clark has even been consistently sexist, although he has been a little 'women need the saving', but this action i feel was control of a women, and i don't like it

[Fallen One]

I agree that other people having Clark's powers has lead them to abuse the power, and has bad consequences... that's what made CHLOE so special. she got this power and she didnt go crazy with it... she didnt push herself too hard. she only used it when she absolutely had to, and understood completely the price of her abilities

when she got infected by Brainiac is must have been terrifying. she's not silly, she knew that it would end badly. but instead of whining about it, crying about it, she tryed to do her best with it. she used it in a responsible way to save her best friend

she is the best example of a human who CAN handle abilities. she is responsible enough and open minded enough and strong willed enough to deal with everything that comes with it
Chloe is your classic meteor freak. She got powers, she got power hungry, she abused said powers, and she indangered people closest to her with those powers. And just like meteor freaks, she was on her way to either Belle Reeve or Death.

Lucky for her that Clark loves her and saved her life, otherwise her life would have ended the same way all of theirs ended. Its not Clark who owes Chloe anything, its Chloe who owes Clark.

Her irresponsible and foolish thinking is what got her mind wiped by Brainiac and what forced Clark to not restore his secret to her mind. It doesn't matter how scared she was about Brainiac's infection, apparently she wasn't scared ENOUGH. If she was, then she would have asked Clark to got rid of her infection a long time ago.

Clark made the decision for her because she was too foolish to do for herself. Thats not a sexiest thing, thats not mature/not immature thing. He was mature about it, she wasn't. Therefore she forced him to make the decision for her.

I'll cry for Chloe when I'm done laughing. There are far more people on the show that deserve sympathy. Chloe made her own bed, now she must lay in it.

[unfocused]

you can't provide any evidence that Chloe WASN'T being controlled by Brainiac. MOD EDIT
BrainIAC was unable to control her until he had the power of the Fortress to do it. If he could control her without that power, he wouldn't have needed Doomsday to take her to him.

The evidence that Chloe WANS'T being controlled by BrainIAC is almost 10 episodes strong, whereas for 10 episodes this season of being infected by BrainIAC, he never once controlled her. That's my evidence, where's yours?

his only effect on her was NOT the memory loss. he affected her ability to understand things. she had power over that crystal too.
K...

there may well have been other effects that we haven't been told about yet. just like cordelia on Angel, Brainiac may have been controlling her actions for a long time... he would have had interest in Isis, learning about meteor freaks. he would have had interest in Davis obviously.

i wouldn't like the storyline, but since Angel used it, i don't see why Smallville couldn't. we could end up with flashbacks, or simply Brainiac (through Chloe) telling Clark that he made her kill someone...
If that ever happens, then I'll agree that BrainIAC had an influence on Chloe. But it hasn't happened yet, so I can't agree with it right now. All I can agree with right now are the facts: BrainIAC didn't control Chloe for the entirety of the time she was infected by him, not counting the second infection in the Fortress in the final scenes of the last aired episode.

MOD EDIT

other people may want to continue thinking about whether it was an insult to women. i don't think Clark has even been consistently sexist, although he has been a little 'women need the saving', but this action i feel was control of a women, and i don't like it
Lol, I meant I was moving on to the rest of my post ;)

Great avatar, Fallen One :lol:

[Fallen One]

I knew you'd appreciate it James, all the fellas on the forum appreciate it. :lol:

[pizzahead2490]

i felt bad for chole memory loss in this eppy but i felt like it was an mature decision for clark to make.
he saw how his secret was affecting the people that he loved and he saw a way to fix and that way was to wipe out chole memory.

i dont agree with all of cedi's post but i do belive in this particular part scratch out the foolish thing tho:

Her irresponsible and foolish thinking is what got her mind wiped by Brainiac and what forced Clark to not restore his secret to her mind. It doesn't matter how scared she was about Brainiac's infection, apparently she wasn't scared ENOUGH. If she was, then she would have asked Clark to got rid of her infection a long time ago.

chole acted like she didnt want her infection to be cured and thus she acted like it was an god send and clark said that he wanted to help her and she was like i dont know how you can yady yady etc etc.

but in the end clark made an wise decision in ridding her memory.

she is gonna get it back tho, and how she react to that is more interesting thing for me to view.

[unfocused]

pizzahead2490, is your avatar part of a set? Do you have any full screens of it or know where I can find the set?

[pizzahead2490]

pizzahead2490, is your avatar part of a set? Do you have any full screens of it or know where I can find the set?

its a commerical cap from when the cw just came about, i found it on google lol.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Chloe is your classic meteor freak. She got powers, she got power hungry, she abused said powers, and she indangered people closest to her with those powers. And just like meteor freaks, she was on her way to either Belle Reeve or Death.

.

okay, what? she got her power to heal people... and she didn't get power hungry, she didn't abuse it and start trying to save everyone no matter what the risk, she didn't endanger any of the people closest to her with her ability...

when brainiac infected her she used those powers a little more, but a) that isnt a meteor infection and b) she still never endangered anyone but herself (which everyone has every right to do...)



Lucky for her that Clark loves her and saved her life, otherwise her life would have ended the same way all of theirs ended. Its not Clark who owes Chloe anything, its Chloe who owes Clark.

Her irresponsible and foolish thinking is what got her mind wiped by Brainiac and what forced Clark to not restore his secret to her mind. It doesn't matter how scared she was about Brainiac's infection, apparently she wasn't scared ENOUGH. If she was, then she would have asked Clark to got rid of her infection a long time ago.
.

how irresponsible and foolish of chloe to try to use the burden that was put on her to help people... god she really is silly :rolleyes:


Clark made the decision for her because she was too foolish to do for herself. Thats not a sexiest thing, thats not mature/not immature thing. He was mature about it, she wasn't. Therefore she forced him to make the decision for her.

I'll cry for Chloe when I'm done laughing. There are far more people on the show that deserve sympathy. Chloe made her own bed, now she must lay in it.

i find it hilarious, that in an arguement about Clark being sexist, the man defending Clark has an avatar of a hot girl's arse...

kind of ironic :\

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----



BrainIAC was unable to control her until he had the power of the Fortress to do it. If he could control her without that power, he wouldn't have needed Doomsday to take her to him.

The evidence that Chloe WANS'T being controlled by BrainIAC is almost 10 episodes strong, whereas for 10 episodes this season of being infected by BrainIAC, he never once controlled her. That's my evidence, where's yours?

:

it is my opinion that brainiac COULD control chloe when he was in her body, but when he is inside the fortress instead didn't have any power over her... so he had to have doomsday bring her too him so that he could re infect her and gain power over her AGAIN

so you're theory of proof doesn't work as him infecting her from the fortress prooves nothing

there is no proof either way, it is all speculation

:[/QUOTE]

[unfocused]

I knew you'd appreciate it James, all the fellas on the forum appreciate it. :lol:
Christmas came early for the boys here at KSite! :D And to not sound sexist, I'll add "for the girls too!"

okay, what? she got her power to heal people... and she didn't get power hungry, she didn't abuse it and start trying to save everyone no matter what the risk, she didn't endanger any of the people closest to her with her ability...
She endangered the world by choosing to keep the "gift" and let BrainIAC live through her. Had she decided to really try and rid the world of BrainIAC, she could have done something honorable such as becoming an hero instead of trying to be a hero :lol:

MOD EDIT

[Hopefulsuicide]

She endangered the world by choosing to keep the "gift" and let BrainIAC live through her. Had she decided to really try and rid the world of BrainIAC, she could have done something honorable such as becoming an hero instead of trying to be a hero :lol:.

any how could she have been the hero and destroyed brainiac... besides killing herself, and we cant even be sure that would have worked, he probably would still have dribbled out her ear to come back a few episodes later with a new plan

MOD EDIT

[Fat Elvis 007]

IMO, the very fact that Chloe has never killed people before being under the influence of Brainiac, and now all of a sudden she is killing people, is enough evidence for me. If that was supposed to be RealChloe, then these writers are even dumber than I ever could have imagined.

[unfocused]

any how could she have been the hero and destroyed brainiac... besides killing herself, and we cant even be sure that would have worked, he probably would still have dribbled out her ear to come back a few episodes later with a new plan
BrainIAC is unpredictable, she wouldn't have known if killing herself would have worked or not, but there's a chance he would have died along with her. Without a living host, it is widely accepted that infections can possibly die, that should have been enough incentive for her to do the unthinkable, given how dangerously powerful BrainIAC is. Personally, I'm glad she didn't go that route, but I still think she should have, at the very least, stopped being so defensive and actually feel concerned about the infection's potential risks.

It was foolish of her to not want to let go of the abilities gained by the BrainIAC infection. That much should be agreed upon by all of us.

MOD EDIT
brainiac can control chloe whenever he is inside her...

... that's why he couldnt control her from the fortress

i'm not ignoring you, i'm quoting you and disagreeing with what you are saying

i dont think that your opinion that brainiac needs the power of fortress to control chloe is FACT...

No, BrainIAC could not control Chloe when he was inside of her. For 9 episodes he didn't take full control, but now that he has the power of the Fortress, he suddenly chooses to take full control of her? No. It wasn't that BrainIAC could but didn't want to control Chloe, it was that he couldn't but did want to.

BrainIAC couldn't control Chloe when he infected her. He DID need the Fortress to take control of her. This is why he began erasing her memories, to fool Clark into taking her to the Fortress so he could take control of it and then use it to take control of Chloe. Master plan.

So, Choe did kill Sebastian, because BrainIAC couldn't control her then.

And this whole "influence" argument... since when did BrainIAC have influence over Chloe? She never made any decisions based on BrainIAC's choices. If BrainIAC could influence Chloe enough to cause her to kill a man, then he would be smart enough to influence Chloe to attack, imprison, weaken, or even kill Clark with a trunk load of Kryptonite before having Doomsday take her captive, bringing her to the Fortress, and then taking control of her.

[Fallen One]

MOD EDIT

[Hopefulsuicide]

BrainIAC is unpredictable, she wouldn't have known if killing herself would have worked or not, but there's a chance he would have died along with her. Without a living host, it is widely accepted that infections can possibly die, that should have been enough incentive for her to do the unthinkable, given how dangerously powerful BrainIAC is. Personally, I'm glad she didn't go that route, but I still think she should have, at the very least, stopped being so defensive and actually feel concerned about the infection's potential risks.

It was foolish of her to not want to let go of the abilities gained by the BrainIAC infection. That much should be agreed upon by all of us. .

you expect me to agree that Chloe deserved to have her memories stripped because he wouldn't kill herself just in case Brainiac gained control of he (which you are telling me he never could have done)...

nope!

and anyway, it's not like Clark said 'right, i have the solution let's take brainiac out of you' and she refused... they didnt have a clue what had happened... didnt know it was even an infection... just that something happened when brainiac tried to take her mind, and she had no idea what to do about it...

she wasn't keeping the ability on purpose, i think considering her eagerness to get rid of her meteor freak powers, she'd have been just as eager to get rid of brainiac powers

MOD EDIT

No, BrainIAC could not control Chloe when he was inside of her. For 9 episodes he didn't take full control, but now that he has the power of the Fortress, he suddenly chooses to take full control of her? No. It wasn't that BrainIAC could but didn't want to control Chloe, it was that he couldn't but did want to..

BrainIAC couldn't control Chloe when he infected her. He DID need the Fortress to take control of her. This is why he began erasing her memories, to fool Clark into taking her to the Fortress so he could take control of it and then use it to take control of Chloe. Master plan.

So, Choe did kill Sebastian, because BrainIAC couldn't control her then.

And this whole "influence" argument... since when did BrainIAC have influence over Chloe? She never made any decisions based on BrainIAC's choices. If BrainIAC could influence Chloe enough to cause her to kill a man, then he would be smart enough to influence Chloe to attack, imprison, weaken, or even kill Clark with a trunk load of Kryptonite before having Doomsday take her captive, bringing her to the Fortress, and then taking control of her.


prove that he didnt have full control...

i'm sorry, i don't even whole heartedly believe he did, i just don't accept that your 'theory' is FACT.

it is entirely possible that brainiac was controlling her. it is also entirely possible that he was inside her, getting stronger and stronger and as he did, her memories began to slip away and her decisions began to become more brainiac like... he was taking control of her peice by peice

what do you think would have happened if Chloe's mind HAD finished erasing itself? it is my opinion that he would have had full control of her...

p.s. if he had conscious enough thought to PLAN to trick Clark, then he couldnt have been completely supressed... he did something to her brain, he controlled her at least by controlling the memory loss, so why not in other ways?

as for the influence thing... becoming davis' buddy, the phantom zone thing, and the murder, can all be either claimed to be influence or control

::Looks at the TW picture thread and sees him not only shirtless, but in tight revealing shorts/pants of all sorts, then reads this quote and chuckles::

Sorry Becky, but whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

if i'm honest, i don't really mind objectifying... probably makes me a bit of a shallow girl... but i'll wear a short skirt and a top with cleavage if i'm going out... we all want to be thought hot!

it's just that it seemed so funny next to a statement about lack of sexism... your bottom will probably offend/ or put some women off you as a man... i can see were they would be coming from :lol:

p.s. who is the pic of?

[unfocused]

you expect me to agree that Chloe deserved to have her memories stripped because he wouldn't kill herself just in case Brainiac gained control of he (which you are telling me he never could have done)...

nope!
So you believe Chloe is more important than all the world? I hate to be the one to break it to you but Chloe isn't more important than any single other human being out there, let alone 6 billion.

and anyway, it's not like Clark said 'right, i have the solution let's take brainiac out of you' and she refused...
:lol: That's actually exactly what happened. He was worried about her and wanted to try to find a cure for the infection, but she refused to try. She knew she was infected since Odyssey. But she liked the power, and then when stuff started hitting fans, she STILL refused. Nevermind the fact that no one knew what was going on or knew how to fix it. The problem is Chloe didn't WANT to fix it and she made that clear when refusing Clark's help. And that's my point.

She never even tried.

she wasn't keeping the ability on purpose, i think considering her eagerness to get rid of her meteor freak powers, she'd have been just as eager to get rid of brainiac powers
She seemed more eager to stop Clark from curing her of the BrainIAC powers :)

it is entirely possible that brainiac was controlling her. it is also entirely possible that he was inside her, getting stronger and stronger and as he did, her memories began to slip away and her decisions began to become more brainiac like... he was taking control of her peice by peice
That isn't what happened and that wasn't even insinuated by the writers. Like I said before; I only play by the facts that are given to us, not by biased fan speculation. If Doomsday is shown to be stronger than Clark, then I'm not going to argue that he isn't. If a fan argues that Clark is stronger, that fan needs to remind us of a scene that showed Clark overpower Doomsday, instead of purely speculating that Clark is stronger without having any evidence. So don't tell me "BrainIAC was in control of Chloe simply because it's a possibility." It's possible that Chloe is a real brunette, it's possible that Smallville will go to a ninth season, it's possible that Micheal will return. But none of it is fact until it happens.

what do you think would have happened if Chloe's mind HAD finished erasing itself? it is my opinion that he would have had full control of her... BrainIAC's memory loss plan did complete itself. It wasn't design for her to forget everything. It was intended to make her only remember Davis, thus trusting him and him alone. And again, if he needed to erase all of her memories to take control of her, then she murdered Sebastian by herself because she had all of her memories while killing him.

he controlled her at least by controlling the memory loss, so why not in other ways?I don't know, you tell me. Why didn't BrainIAC control Chloe in other ways? it doesn't make sense, and that's my point. Thanks. What does make sense is BrianIAC NOT controlling her because... he CAN'T.

[Hopefulsuicide]

MOD EDIT

i have NO IDEA whether or not Chloe was in control of herself completely, being influenced by Brainiac, or being completely controlled

they havent explained it yet

she killed him, at the end of an episode and it hasn't been mentioned since

everyone's opinions are valid, that is my arguement to you... i am not actually ON a side, i am just argueing for the other sides in order to illustrate that there are other possibilities than YOU'RE opinion

p.s. your last sentance makes no sense. brainiac controlled the memory loss... so he obviously CAN control her. that was my point, and i dont see how that backs up what you said at all

[RedKRules]

The only point I understood of this whole Chloe´s infection was ...

Brainiac WON ... game over !

[unfocused]

MOD EDIT

[Bane]

I don't hate that her memory has been wiped, and the idea has grown on me, but I do miss Clark being able to go to her for things. However, there's a chance she may learn everything back towards the end of the season, so I'm not in total despair.

Also, if there's anything left of Brainiac, he can regenerate. It takes longer & longer for him to do so, but I think he may have specially infected Chloe, so that if anything happened to him, he could gradually take over her body. I'm not sure why it didn't happen, as with the homeless people it didn't seem to take long, nor did it with the technician when he was just a liquid.

It seems to be one of those "wait and see" type of things.

[unfocused]

BrainIAC didn't infect Chloe the way he did with the homeless people. What he did to Chloe was an accident. A fortunate one, for him. But it wasn't enough to take full control of her, since he needed to hatch a brilliant plan to do as much harm to her as he could, so that her best friend, Clark, would take her/him to the only place that would give him enough power to take full control of her.

The reason BrainIAC was able to survive through Chloe was because of her meteor abilities. It's not so much a "healing" power as it is a transference power. Sure, she heals people, but by giving them her health in return for theirs. But she doesn't heal the damage until it's transferred into her. Enough of BrainIAC was transferred into her for him to live off of, in turn, much of his own abilities were transferred into her. It wasn't his conventional infecting method, that's why it was so difficult for him to re-energize himself after infecting her, it's also why he couldn't just take control of her for the six or so months she was infected.

[Lazy Boy]

Good grief, this debate is still going on? :lol:
I would join in but there is too many posts to read through and I'm up to my neck in last minute Christmas shopping.

[rebecavaldez]

I don't like it at all!!!
I get that Clark didn't really have much of a choice, but still she was his friend to count on. She can still be there for him, but not in the same way.
*Hoping that she gets her memory back*

[Hopefulsuicide]

MOD EDIT

[Atomic girl]

MOD NOTE: This thread is not to be used for fighting!!! Keep on topic!! The topic is not whether you are right or not! If you see a post which violates the rules, use the report post function, do not respond!!

[unfocused]

Sorry. Subject dropped.

I'll just say that anything is possible, and so far the story has been gripping to the point that I can't stop anticipating how it will play out.

Merry Christmas all.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Merry Crimbo Unfocused, Fallen one and others! Sorry for any rule breaking. Even the angriest posts are all in fun, though i only speak for myself :)

Anyway, topic over!

[SacredK]

I'm fearful, and not liking it so far

[KarenKent]

I seriously hope there's a very very very ... (did I mention very?) good reason for this!!
Chloe without her knowledge of events is ... somewhat useless I hate to say. She's extremely useful and an awesome sidekick otherwise. So I'll be waiting for this very good reason ... =/