#1-8: "Knight Of The Zodiac"

[KryptonSite]

Count down to the airing of the Nov. 19 Knight Rider and then talk about it in real time here! After it's aired, you can continue the discussion in this thread as well :)

[dru-zod2501]

kinda busy tonight but i'll try to keep up

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It's the woman from Journeyman. good show that was

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same vacuous eye candy, check, but I'm more interested in Dr G. & the lady, the two with the most chemistry tonight

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Billy, is the worst spy in the universe.

[HalJordan4184]

I rather like how dorky Billy is, and how inept at spying he is. It's kind of cool actually.

[jym-el]

Billy, is the worst spy in the universe.

maybe... but he got the girl... to bed... Go Billy!!!!!

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don't care if she's a scammer or not... she's still HOT!!!

[moviefan2k4]

This episode was a lot like the "beach babe" story from about a month ago...and in my opinion, ultimately just as pointless. If all the "eye candy" and sexual garbage were removed from this episode, you could tell the whole thing in 15-20 minutes!

Stuff like this is especially troubling for people like me, who have essentially put themselves into a "sexual coma" until marriage. Plainly put, I don't need or want any more of this crap. I want to be able to enjoy this series without having to wade through tons of erotic excuses. But if the show is still like this after the holidays, I may have no choice but to give up on it.

[KittKattBar]

How did Capricorn come to realize that Michael was undercover? I thought he fooled them with that drivers license scam.

[dru-zod2501]

This episode was a lot like the "beach babe" story from about a month ago...and in my opinion, ultimately just as pointless. If all the "eye candy" and sexual garbage were removed from this episode, you could tell the whole thing in 15-20 minutes!

Stuff like this is especially troubling for people like me, who have essentially put themselves into a "sexual coma" until marriage. Plainly put, I don't need or want any more of this crap. I want to be able to enjoy this series without having to wade through tons of erotic excuses. But if the show is still like this after the holidays, I may have no choice but to give up on it.
:confused: so many questions, but i'm not touching this one

[PHOENIXZERO]

This episode was much better than last weeks and complaining about "sexual garbage" like a broken record? Dude, last week's episode was almost entirely centered around it to where it was even a part of the episode's title, not only is it from a KISS song but an old slang term for sex, that being "rock and roll" or a form of it (do you really think KISS was talking about playing music with Rock & Roll All Nite?) and you seemed to have liked it. Women in bikini's around a pool? I guess I can see some point and agree that we could have done without the gratuitous close ups.. I would be more than happy to take ten minutes worth of those kind of shots in placing of five minutes NBC/GE's stupid "Green Week" crap.

Glad KITT finally went through a wall, too much they shot it poorly and I need to watch it again but it seemed really, really cheap.. This episode relied upon quite a bit of recycled footage, including a shot from the backdoor pilot. The shilling of the new 2010 Mustang was tolerable I guess.

Capricorn figured it out because Mike was doing too good of a job to be the guy who he was pretending to be IIRC. Need to watch it again...

I'd give last week's episode a 3/10 and this one a 6/10. There's one more episode left before the changes and tweaks come into effect, that being the massively delayed Knight Fever (apparently airing on New Years Eve according to Neil at KRO) and we get the "joy" of Rosie O'Donnell's variety show in place of it.. No NBC on Wednesdays at 8pm for me for awhile.

I still think they've been holding off on Knight Fever because of how bad it may have turned out. Either that or a placement issue since the story behind might be too much like A Hard Day's Knight.

[moviefan2k4]

...complaining about "sexual garbage" like a broken record?Yep, and I'll keep mentioning it until either it changes, or causes me to quit watching.

Dude, last week's episode was almost entirely centered around it...Not as brazen or reckless as this week's was.

...not only is it from a KISS song but an old slang term for sex, that being "rock and roll" or a form of it (do you really think KISS was talking about playing music with Rock & Roll All Nite?)I don't listen to KISS, so I was completely unfamiliar with that reference until you mentioned it. I also didn't know that the phrase "rock and roll" was a sexual pseudonym...when will this madness end?!

I'd give last week's episode a 3/10 and this one a 6/10.I'd give this week's a 2/10. The actual story was good, but it wasn't worth half the episode being saturated with pointless eroticism.:mad:

[Antithesis]

I liked it. I was suprised that Courtney didn't turn out to be a scammer. I expected her to turn on him the entire time, and it never happened. I did like his ending with the wink.

I have to say, crashing through the wall was absolutely awesome!!!! The only thing missing to make it a perfect KR scene was the old theme playing in the background while he crashed through. I would still like them to explain his sudden boost in durability, but I am glad they did it. Even a throw away line with them on the road would be nice. Maybe something along the lines of the original when KITT got the new voice modulator. It just had KIT ask Michael "What do you think of the new voice modulator" or something along those lines.

You know, I'm starting to think my apartment is bugged.lol I remember saying to myself last week "if they are going to have him cover bombs, they should have him crash through walls too". Guess what happened. One week later it happened. It's almost scary.

Hopefully this means there is a good chance we'll see the original KITT and Michael Knight in at least one episode or maybe a few. Here's hoping.

[Chacal]

This episode was much better than last weeks and complaining about "sexual garbage" like a broken record? Dude, last week's episode was almost entirely centered around it to where it was even a part of the episode's title, not only is it from a KISS song but an old slang term for sex, that being "rock and roll" or a form of it (do you really think KISS was talking about playing music with Rock & Roll All Nite?) and you seemed to have liked it. Women in bikini's around a pool? I guess I can see some point and agree that we could have done without the gratuitous close ups.. I would be more than happy to take ten minutes worth of those kind of shots in placing of five minutes NBC/GE's stupid "Green Week" crap.

I'd give last week's episode a 3/10 and this one a 6/10. .

Are you kidding me? 6/10? On what scale exactly?

I take back everything bad I said about Smallville -- that faux-Superman show is high art compared to this glorified infomercial/soft porn. Think about it, every episode we get boobs and logos. That's it. The stories are the dumbest things I have ever seen. I watch this show simply to try to figure out why it's still on.

Oh and having the Journeyman wife on last night was just pouring salt in the wounds. Are you serious, canceling a good show like that, and keeping Knight Rider?! If it wasn't for LIFE there wouldn't be anything good on NBC at all, and they are trying to kill LIFE by moving it around and changing the lead character.

Anyway, I would love to see this show improve and I am waiting to see what they do, but as of right now, it's pretty much the worst TV show I have ever seen... I watched Cop Rock too.

[PHOENIXZERO]

On the "MY opinion scale" of comparing with the other episodes of this new show and expectations at this point, poster who's been here for over two years and has a enormous six posts. Maybe 3/10 for last week's episode is too generous but after how bad it was it made this one look much better. It wasn't a great, or really a good episode and I do hope that the retooling that's being done improves things though if they have the same writers, Ford influence and the same low budget then all the retooling in the world isn't going to save it. The reason it's being kept alive is due to it being a wholly owned NBCU property, not to mention the deal with Ford. The commercial aspect is one of the many problems with this show.

Journeyman was canceled long before Knight Rider was even in production of the backdoor pilot and its ratings were very poor last year, regardless of how good the show turned out being. If it were being aired now its ratings would probably be just as bad if not worse than Knight Rider's, even at the end of the show's run it's total viewership was below any episode of Knight Rider, demographics were stronger though.

[GuardianAngel]

A rather pointless episode... 2/10

[Chacal]

On the "MY opinion scale" of comparing with the other episodes of this new show and expectations at this point, poster who's been here for over two years and has a enormous six posts. Maybe 3/10 for last week's episode is too generous but after how bad it was it made this one look much better. It wasn't a great, or really a good episode and I do hope that the retooling that's being done improves things though if they have the same writers, Ford influence and the same low budget then all the retooling in the world isn't going to save it. The reason it's being kept alive is due to it being a wholly owned NBCU property, not to mention the deal with Ford. The commercial aspect is one of the many problems with this show.

Journeyman was canceled long before Knight Rider was even in production of the backdoor pilot and its ratings were very poor last year, regardless of how good the show turned out being. If it were being aired now its ratings would probably be just as bad if not worse than Knight Rider's, even at the end of the show's run it's total viewership was below any episode of Knight Rider, demographics were stronger though.

Oh so because I read, and don't comment that much my opinion is suddenly less important than yours? :lol:

If you honestly, think this sophomoric, formulaic, poorly acted excuse for a Ford commercial is going to be saved by a "retooling" then really, I am sorry.

As far as Journeyman is concerned, at least it attempted to be remotely intelligent. You see I am the type of person who picks one show, maybe two, to watch regularly, otherwise I am out and about. I value my time. It insults me when a program like Knight Rider, which obviously has many flaws, gets a full season, while other shows that are more intelligent get the ax. Yes, I am talking about Journeyman, but I also enjoyed My Own Worse Enemy as well.

So excuse my shock at your rating, it wasn't meant as a personal slight, I just expected more from this program. That was my own fault for being naive enough to think they would actually improve it from the pilot after the feedback.

It has been erased from my DVR and I would rather watch a Sham WOW! infomercial than spend one more second of my life on that program.

[aussiegirl63]

kinda busy tonight but i'll try to keep up

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It's the woman from Journeyman. good show that was

----- Added 28 Minutes later -----

same vacuous eye candy, check, but I'm more interested in Dr G. & the lady, the two with the most chemistry tonight

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Billy, is the worst spy in the universe.

I AGREE WITH JOURNEYMAN WAS A GREAT SHOW.

BILLY, IS A IT/COMPUTER GUY NOT A FIELD GUY, BUT PLAYED THE AWKWARD/CLUMSY GUY GREAT. I LIKE HIM

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Are you kidding me? 6/10? On what scale exactly?

I take back everything bad I said about Smallville -- that faux-Superman show is high art compared to this glorified infomercial/soft porn. Think about it, every episode we get boobs and logos. That's it. The stories are the dumbest things I have ever seen. I watch this show simply to try to figure out why it's still on.

Oh and having the Journeyman wife on last night was just pouring salt in the wounds. Are you serious, canceling a good show like that, and keeping Knight Rider?! If it wasn't for LIFE there wouldn't be anything good on NBC at all, and they are trying to kill LIFE by moving it around and changing the lead character.

Anyway, I would love to see this show improve and I am waiting to see what they do, but as of right now, it's pretty much the worst TV show I have ever seen... I watched Cop Rock too.

THEY CAN TAKE LIFE OF THE AIR- NOT A SHOW WORTH WATCHING.:eek: 8/10

[Mr.Magic]

How did Capricorn come to realize that Michael was undercover? I thought he fooled them with that drivers license scam.

Virgo was not that good, and was set up to get caught.

[PHOENIXZERO]

I've written a lot on a certain other site after watching this episode again and I'm going to spare everyone the near novel I've written. But suffice to say, while I still liked this episode a lot more than I Wanna Rock and Roll All Knight, I wouldn't give it a six, even compared to the rest of the mostly horrible episodes. This show just has so many problems and not just the reliance on sex. When they come back with the revamped episodes I'm going to still watch since I am a Knight Rider fan and I really want to give them a chance to improve, but if they screw up certain things even more I might just give up also. But nothing could make me want to watch those damn ShamWow commercials/infomercials with King Douche. moviefan2k4, I think you should go back and watch I Wanna Rock and Roll All Knight again. ;)

I too am tired of the T&A aspect that the writers, directors and whomever else are throwing out there to make up for their total lack of creativity. I was defending it when it made sense story wise, but now I'm also just sick of it. I wouldn't mind if it were a once in awhile thing, minus the pointless close ups of half naked chicks and various parts of their anatomy but they really are using it as a means of distraction from the obvious weaknesses of the writing. I think a lot of the blame should really go to Gary Scott Thompson and especially NBC.

I knew there was a Smallville writer involved with this show but I wasn't sure who it was. After looking awhile ago I saw that it was Philip Levens, who wrote and came up with some of the better episodes of the first few seasons. He's also a consulting producer of Knight Rider and wrote Journey To the End Knight, I didn't really mind the T&A in that one, at least when it came to Mike perving out or Deanna in a bikini top. The writing wasn't all that great either. But they've relied on it way too much. I dunno if I even want to see it now where they could fit it in to make sense within the story.

[KryptonSite]

Finally saw it, a few days after the fact.

I'll say it again: I like Paul Campbell, but the Billy stuff seems like a huge waste of time to me. Any of his plotline was unnecessary and took away from the general plot. Like most of the other characters on the show do. Again, humor can come from interactions between Mike and KITT - that's why I tune in.

The sexual stuff, again, was over-the-top and unneeded. As was the storyline with Graiman and Tess... Bruce Davison deserves better material. I don't even want to think of the idea of what he was doing with her. Ew. Also, could NBC have been more blatant with the environmental initiatives in this one?

I want to love this but it's gotten to the point where it's not even appointment television anymore because it seems to be the same plot every week with just minor details changed. I still find it enjoyable, but it's not as good as I thought or hoped it would be.

[PHOENIXZERO]

Actually, I thought Billy's side story was better than the low rent Ocean's 11 story that was the main plot. Not saying much, but we have one more episode that is sure to be a train wreck since even NBC apparently knows it with pushing Knight Fever to December 31st (from what I've been told) just to get it out of the way. I don't think the writers, GST and NBC know what subtlety is, that includes the "product integration". I don't think they know what they're doing either. January is going to be very telling.

I think I've been way too positive and defensive of the series, including the backdoor pilot. I'm rather tired of giving it a chance and looking on the bright side of things and letting the occasional half nod to the original series. I think the proper word to describe how I feel about wanting this show to succeed is desperate. If I wasn't a fan of the original who wants to see it revived and flourish then I would have probably not made it past the third episode.

This is the last chance for Knight Rider and so far they've blown it. I probably should have known better when they talked about how the show was about how serious can a show be when one of the stars is a talking car. I don't want a serious drama (there's way too much of that on TV already) or anything like that, I'd prefer the drama to be kept at a minimum, even more so with how badly written it has been. But I at least want writing that's at the very least, on par with the average episode of the original series, even the mess that was season four. Is that really too much to ask? Did the original series rely on gimmicks? Yeah, KITT and the car's "abilities" were a massive gimmick but it worked well up until they went too far with Super Pursuit Mode and while there was a good amount of T&A (by early, mid-80s TV standards), it didn't rule over the show like it has in this one in almost every episode and especially the last two episodes where the only characters that haven't been looking to get laid were Torres and KITT. Well, Torres was the one out of town this week (hello bloated cast) and was probably really on a booty call but at least we didn't see it. I no longer believe that if the original series were to be made today with the same people (with the appropriate ages) that it would have the same T&A/sex issues. I'm sure it'd be stronger, but not nearly as bad as it has been with the new show. It really is just there to compensate for a lack of creativity and intelligence behind the writing.

I really do hope the retooling changes things but I'm still going to be keeping my expectations low. Outside of the news and educational programming, I watch television primarily for entertainment some of which that allows me to shut my brain off for a half hour to an hour, just escape and have a little fun. Unfortunately even with my brain firmly in the "Off" position, they're still insulting what little intelligence I have left not to mention as a fan of the original series.

Alright, I'll stop now and probably shouldn't have started since I know I'm largely repeating myself or what's already been said. It just sucks because from the interviews I've read and seen I like Deanna Russo and I like Justin Bruening and the rest of the cast seems like a bunch of cool people.

[KryptonSite]

I do have to admit, even with the extraneous characters this is STILL a heck of a lot better than Bionic Woman had been.

I just don't see what was so hard about re-creating the original formula - the man and his car, with two other supporting characters for guidance. They can't really use the "we don't want to overwork Bruening" excuse because Hasselhoff managed it 25 years ago, and effects are easier than ever to complete.

I don't remember that many original series episodes where KITT's system got taken over but it seems to happen far too often here.

To re-create a series, I think the #1 thing to do is to see what made the original show work. Doctor Who definitely did it, by knowing that what fans want first and foremost is a Time Lord, his companion, and his police box which goes through time and space, with some Daleks thrown in every once in a while. The only thing the new series seems to catch on to is that concepts like KARR are very interesting to the audience - and even that could turn into a disaster. (I'm not too fond of the cyborg/robot idea, and I really don't think ANYONE would name a second project "KARR" after the disaster that was the first one).

I will give the new-model Knight Rider this much - it can be entertaining and it still does get an hour of my time every week... .which is more than I can say for some other series that may have better production values but don't have a "hook" that keeps me watching (like Life on Mars). But, I had much higher hopes for a new version of Knight Rider. At this rate it's only going to last one season, two seasons tops.

[superpal1]

I thought the episode was entertaining and I have thought that show has been getting better each week. I'm curious to see how the show feels after the cast shake ups.

[Xanderman]

I also liked the ep, it was brainless fun (problem is this entire series is brainless). I always enjoy Vegas episodes of series. The show is definitely better now than it was in its early going. But I'm seriously tired of most of the team (that FBI chick annoys me greatly for one) so I'm glad they're apparently retooling to get rid of them, and the same old terrorist plot of the week routine. Personally I would like to see the series become more like Supernatural. Fighting the good fight week after week (helping the helpless), going from place to place, with an ongoing deeper story arc that binds everything together and is built upon gradually. Basically they need to fire whomever's running/writing for the series now and hire someone, well, intelligent.

[hansioux]

I rather enjoy Knight Rider so far. Yeah they do the terrorist of the week thing, but I have to say in honesty, this episode isn't about terrorists, it's a group of robbers. So technically it's just the bad guy of the week. And if you are looking forward to KITT and Michael driving around and help the helpless, then that would be "Bad guy of the week" show. I am just curious how that is different from terrorist of the week.

But I get the point about the team. Right now the writing for these characters aren't contributing to the overall story. Though I loved the Billy story in this episode.

Being a BSG fan, i might be biased, but, Billy was sincere, he didn't loose sight of the job even though he found a girl he liked and he got the girl. I love stories for the underdog like that. What's not to enjoy?

Knight Rider is about a talking thinking jumping car, it's supposed to be fun. If i want something that takes itself seriously, I can go watch 24 or something. I want they to find a balance between campy and serious, and right now I think they do an ok job.

Finally thought about the new upcoming format. The government sponsored to build an expensive car, and gave a guy chance to redo his life, just so that he can drive around and intervene when he sees injustice? I think in the structure of the story, that would be a bit implausible. For that much money and effort, I think having assignments from the government to take down possible target is more justified. Not that I want to see another year of terrorist of the week, but it just makes more sense...

[PHOENIXZERO]

They were after the Zodiac gang because of what happened in a FBI office in Anchorage where some agents were killed and they stole some data which was likely meant to be sold to the highest bidder. That's where the "terrorist" part comes from, the robbery was just something happening when Mike took over "Virgo's" identity..

The original series took itself at least somewhat serious with comedy aspect generally involving unwitting people interacting with KITT in some way. This show is flat out stupid and that IMO is a problem. Just look at the goofiness of the party scene (especially where the pickpocket guy is dancing like a doofus) and music playing that those involved clearly wouldn't actually be into and where Mike is meeting the other Zodiac members. Just terrible writing.. It makes me wonder if this is how they view the original series. Fun is one thing, but it seems like it's being written for 10 year olds instead of something for all ages and with how they write "comedy" for little kids now it's only missing someone farting repeatedly. Of course then there's the over the top T&A/sex issue which I'm sure is really turning parents off from letting their children watching the show. It's just waaaay too silly.

[hansioux]

these days there are less "kids" to appeal to actually. Especially that kids these days have channels dedicated to their entertainment. It is a different era. I don't think Knight Rider is for "Kids" unless by kids you mean teenagers.

As for sex issues, since we are here at "Kryptonsite" I'd think we are all here becuase we at some point really enjoyed Smallville, which I think didn't stay too far from the whole sex appeal thing either.

I dunno, I loved the old Knight Rider as a kid. But when I watch it today, the acting really puts me off. I can still watch McGayver with ease, but not Knight Rider or Airwolf, A-Team or Mission Impossible. But that might just be me.

I think most shows these days going on with the sex appeal thing. As long as the setting doesn't seem forced, I am ok with it. This episode is about Vegas, where it is hot as hell most days of the year and outrageous pools at every hotel, so I think it's ok.

I tried to watch Enterprise and they keep putting people in the sanitize chamber and have guys rub cream on the vulcan girl, that's when I just turned off the TV.

[PHOENIXZERO]

I didn't mind the girls in bikinis and all that, even if it isn't a fitting setting, but they went over the line with the focusing on it as well as the gratuitous, unneeded close ups. Smallville has had its share of eye rolling moments involving sex, specifically the "sex quakes" from last season, which while I found slightly amusing, was just stupid or Clark apparently really wanting to lose his powers wasn't just to be normal but so he and Lana's could do it. But I don't have that much of an issue with Smallville since it hasn't been nearly as annoying with it as KR after only eight episodes.

The original Knight Rider had something for everyone IMO, it was a generally fun show a family could watch and do so weekly without having to screen it. Unlike this show which with several episodes, would make me feel embarrassed and uncomfortable watching with just about anyone. I don't think it's fair to compare it or those other shows with MacGuyver which IIRC didn't have the same tone as those other shows, even with the absurd things he'd do with a few items. Then again, I'm sure there are those who can't stand to watch it now either. I have a my own fair share of shows and movies that I liked when I was little but have a hard time watching now such as the Adam West Batman, the original He-Man cartoon, Greatest American Hero (just thought of it because I heard the music, heh) and many others.

Knight Rider isn't one of them because I can accept what absurdities that are there, especially Hasselhoff's overacting as it's still fun and doesn't look too bad as long as you don't over think it and pick it apart. It's much easier now to notice things thanks to DVD such stunt drivers in the car either in the front not looking at all like Hasselhoff or hiding in the back as KITT "drives", bad stunt doubles during fights, recycled footage and how awful the underside of the car looks when they're doing stunts that show it. But again, that's something to me that's easier to accept. Regardless, the original show still had better writing, direction and pacing than this show has shown so far. I can admit that the original series's first eight episodes weren't that great either (aside from Trust Doesn't Rust) but the basics were there and the show got better as the people in charge and the writers got more familiar with things but they weren't so bad that they required a "reboot".

Hopefully the retooling will really improve things and the writers/directors won't be so reliant and ripping off story aspects or ideas from movies or rely on cheap T&A to waste time that could be spend on some actual action. With the cutting of three actors I hope the money they're saving is reallocated to the effects and stunt/action budget. Maybe finally doing something to that damn car's interior as well if Ford would allow it.

Oh yeah, were channels back then also for kids, specifically Nickelodeon which has been around for over 30 years now. Granted back then a lot less people had cable and the number of channels has increased significantly since then. But even still there are also people who got into KR in the 90s and even in the 00s after watching it in syndication on WGN, USA or Sci-Fi or one of the many channels around the world that aired it.

[hansioux]

well, for the millions and millions around the world part, I grew up watching Knight Rider in Taiwan, where Lee Mike spoke Mandarin and called KITT "Buddy". Which I then watch Knight Rider in Germany for a couple of years... And finally got to watch the Hoff speaking English on syndication in the States.

I still think just the basic premise that people put in the development, money and people just so that a dude drives around to find out injustice on a small scale. The basic concept behind that is ludicrous, thing just doesn't work that way.

But that was the premise behind the original Knight Rider. Michael has to carry on his crime-fighting crusade believing "one man can make a difference". It was pretty much Batman without the Bat part, and a smarter car. Instead of fighting big time villains like Riddler, Joker and Two-Face, he faced much smaller crimes.

To me, story-wise the difference is that the new Knight Rider found a reason for the team to exist and explained where the money comes from, so they changed villain of the week to terrorist of the week.

As for the increase of T&A, that's just the change of time. The old knight rider had its share of T&A, hence the hot mechanics, it's just that times are different, so they show more now. Also, there are less children in proportion today compare to the 1980s, I can see why there are less shows targeting kids these days.

For Smallville, T&A definately didn't start with the Sex-quake. Even very early-on, they ad the episode with sexed up teacher, and the Lana in red bikini episode. We also had several lana-stalker episodes where they had gratuitous, unneeded close ups. When Lois first showed up, there was the Aquaman episode where Lois had close ups and everyone were in Bikinis.

The amount of closeups and T&A actually decreased somewhat in later seasons, though we still had the Lois pole dancing, and Lexana frak... Also Smallville is a bit more female viewer oriented, so it had A LOT MORE male T&A than other shows.

Just saying, the new Knight Rider isn't that bad. I actually rather enjoyed a couple of them. But there are definitely room for improvement. And the most important should be "more Michael and KITT alone".

With all the new methods of communication of the team and the duo, we have too much interference to get more than a couple of one-liners between KITT and Michael. And to me Knight Rider is all about Michael and bonding with KITT.

I can actually care less about stunts and action as long as we have more of "Michael and KITT" figuring out how to get the job done, without the team disturbing them.

[Xanderman]

I can actually care less about stunts and action as long as we have more of "Michael and KITT" figuring out how to get the job done, without the team disturbing them.Me too, more than anything I just want a good story. I've said this before but this series has felt too much like that Pam Anderson trashfest "V.I.P." to me. It was similarly lame-brained with an abundance of T&A and bad/cheesy stories/writing, meant to appeal to the kind of men Pam Anderson herself dated (and married) in her lifetime no doubt. Lol, I sort of see this new KR series as targeting the same kinds of male viewers, likely teen or muscle-head jock types who don't need or want smart/intelligent writing or actual stories, just fast cars, fast women, and lots of it. heh Basically they're just selling/marketing cars in this show to some degree, with the usual marketing cliche of associating hot women/sex with men who drive/own cars like these.

[PHOENIXZERO]

I still think just the basic premise that people put in the development, money and people just so that a dude drives around to find out injustice on a small scale. The basic concept behind that is ludicrous, thing just doesn't work that way.

What's ludicrous about it? FLAG was the dream of a billionaire (Wilton Knight, founder of Knight Industries, the Knight Foundation and the backer of the Foundation for Law And Government) who wanted to give back something to the people and make a difference in the world in some way other than computer tech or making planes. Michael Long/Knight was the man who would be its operative that when needed, went into the field. The show was centered around him and his nearly indestructible, nearly sentient AI controlled super car that was designed and developed by Wilton Knight as well as the scientist that helped build of the car of the future.

Michael was the guy who worked in the field for FLAG, which was more than just Michael, KITT, Devon and Bonnie/April. FLAG was funded by the, the Knight Foundation, there's no mystery to it. The government had nothing to do with it other than working with FLAG, Knight Industries was not a glorified subsidiary as Knight Industries seems to be now.. Obviously there might have been better ways to go about helping people, but it's no more absurd than a lot of other things on television. FLAG was generally meant to be there when either the government's hands were tied and couldn't get involved due to a lack of evidence or wouldn't due to corruption or something that just wasn't of interest. The main idea behind the show was fighting for the little guy when no one else would. Anyway, there was more to FLAG than just Michael and KITT going around saving the day. That was just the main focus of the show. There are non-profit groups out there that have similar goals, obviously not to the effect of having an undercover agent with a indestructible car that can talk and drive itself fighting crime.


But that was the premise behind the original Knight Rider. Michael has to carry on his crime-fighting crusade believing "one man can make a difference". It was pretty much Batman without the Bat part, and a smarter car. Instead of fighting big time villains like Riddler, Joker and Two-Face, he faced much smaller crimes.

Or Zorro (inspiration for Batman, Green Arrow or other human super heroes) or Robin Hood (Green Arrow again) or the Lone Ranger (an actual inspiration for the show) or many other lone heroes that aren't Batman. What big time villains have they faced on this show? Big bad domestic terrorist? I'd rather see a silly "save the family ranch from a CEO and his members of law enforcement that he's bribed who wants it because of hidden mineral deposits that are worth millions" type episode before another badly written story where Mike has to go undercover to stop yet another arms dealer or brain dead terrorist, ripped straight off from popular movies.


To me, story-wise the difference is that the new Knight Rider found a reason for the team to exist and explained where the money comes from, so they changed villain of the week to terrorist of the week.

Where the money came from was explained in the original series.. Are you saying that the original series and the "team" behind it had no reason to exist??? It's still a villain of the week set up, only thing is that they've severely limited themselves to focusing on just terrorist instead of a broader range of criminals which the original series did, including the occasional terrorist. The team also has even less reason to exist as a basically being a glorified not so secret branch of the NSA or Homeland Security. Instead of a Foundation of Law And Government that worked with the government when needed but not for it.

Tell me, do you believe that this new show is superior so far to the original? Because that's what it seems like. The original series is no worse than MacGyver when it comes to the absurdities of it more than Knight Rider IMO and shared the same basic premise, right down to the Phoenix Foundation which served same function as FLAG. Only thing was that instead of having the Deux Ex Machina be on wheels, it was his brain and the various things around him that he'd use to save the day in completely unrealistic, far fetched ways. At least some of the things presented in KR came into being in some form or another, that will never happen with MacGyver. Knight Rider also never had a two part episode where Michael gets knocked and the head and goes back in time to Camelot either with an ending that heavily implied that it actually happened and wasn't just a dream.


As for the increase of T&A, that's just the change of time. The old knight rider had its share of T&A, hence the hot mechanics, it's just that times are different, so they show more now. Also, there are less children in proportion today compare to the 1980s, I can see why there are less shows targeting kids these days.

Hot mechanics yes, but Bonnie was rarely there to give teen boys something to have wet dreams about, she at least to be wasn't a sexy knock out and with barely showed any skin, she had beauty and brains and had some class. April was a bit of different matter since Rebbecca Holden's one of the reasons why Patricia McPherson was let go was because the powers that be didn't find her attractive enough along with her wanting there to be some romance between her character and Michael as well as a pay raise.

Knight Rider wasn't primarily targeted at kids, at least originally, it was targeted at all ages with a little something for everyone.. Kids came on because of KITT and the people involved at least tried to keep the T&A and sex subtle enough to where it could easily go unnoticed by children. The new show has been or was rated number one in the kid demographics but I dunno how it's doing now, especially with the last two episodes which I'm sure turned off a lot of parents from letting their kids watch it, that is if the other episodes beforehand didn't.

So yeah, T&A in the original series was certainly there, but it wasn't nearly as prevalent or in your face or put front and center, even when they had April in the occasional skimpy for the time outfit. Michael and KITT discussed all his "lady friends" but we never got an episode where Michael and Bonnie/April just needed to get laid. It's just cheap a tactic, actually this show has been completely cheap in just about everything it does. The fact of the matter is that it's not needed, especially at the level they've used it.

Maybe ABC should bring MacGyver back to television with an all new series done in a similar way as this new show and then let's see how you like it.

For Smallville, T&A definately didn't start with the Sex-quake. Even very early-on, they ad the episode with sexed up teacher, and the Lana in red bikini episode. We also had several lana-stalker episodes where they had gratuitous, unneeded close ups. When Lois first showed up, there was the Aquaman episode where Lois had close ups and everyone were in Bikinis.

Where did I say that it started with that? I was using that as an example so don't try and put words in my mouth, well not mouth but dammit you know what I mean. Like I said, I originally didn't have much of a problem with the T&A or sexual aspects originally, but it's gotten to the point where it's gone overboard and just there as a cheap distraction or attempt to be compensate for the weak writing, direction and probably lack of budget. No where did I say that Smallville was squeaky clean, I used just a couple examples and it's still no where near the level of these first eight episodes of Knight Rider have been. So far even the worse episode of Smallville has been written better than the mess that is the first eight aired episodes of the new KR. It's so bad that they've held off on airing Knight Fever until December 31st when no one will be home to actually watch it just so than can get it out of the way.

I don't want a silly, hour long flat out action show either, but we're eight episodes in and for the most part KITT has been nothing more than a glorified prop or tool more often than not looking inferior to just about everything else on the road. The main focus should be Mike, KITT and the relationship between them. Hopefully with the trimming of the cast we'll get a lot more Mike/KITT time. I want better, more mature but plot lines and stories than the original while retaining the fun and charm of it as well. This show had done anything but outside of a few good moments which are generally between Mike and KITT when they actually get to be alone and not have big brother watching their every move.

What I also don't want is 38 minutes of sophomoric, horribly written half assed dialog, with flat out stupid plots to match with the bad drama, sprinkled with a generous helping of pointless sex and T&A and a whole two or three minutes of weak action with cheap/bad below low budget visual effects (and I don't just mean the CGI) and stunts (what few actual stunts there are) certainly isn't want I want either. Knight Rider, first and foremost should be an action/adventure with a tiny bit of fantasy of the non-mystic variety. The drama when needed should be kept limited unless it's important to the plot or character development. It should be fun, but not stupid or completely insulting.

It's bad when a secondary character (Billy), secondary story is more interesting and entertaining than what is supposedly the primary story of the episode.


UGH, now I'm the broken record...

[hansioux]

What's ludicrous about it? FLAG was the dream of a billionaire (Wilton Knight, founder of Knight Industries, the Knight Foundation and the backer of the Foundation for Law And Government) who wanted to give back something to the people and make a difference in the world in some way other than computer tech or making planes. Michael Long/Knight was the man who would be its operative that when needed, went into the field.

what's ludicrous about that is that since Michael Long is dead, and Michael Knight is not affiliated with the police nor is the operation affiliated with the government, then what he and the company do is ILLEGAL. but of course, if you think of it as a superhero story like Batman and Superman, then I guess it is ok...

but to me, it isn't a comic book superhero story, so that's what i find ludicrous.

zorro and robinhood are good comparisons, but still, they too were illegal. But they do it because they lived in a world of injustice. Where as in a modern world Knight Industry should at least be affiliated with some kind of government to call what they do right and just.

I don't believe the new show is superior, but think it needs improvement which I've mentioned. More Michael and KITT alone time. But as for the back ground setting of the story, the new show is more believable. Where as the old show while has better writing on an episode to episode basis, has a somewhat comic bookish background setting which is a bit unbelievable. But I guess we have a talking car, so who cares about some rogue dude doing police work.

As for the T&A, it doesn't seem that outrageous to me. The T&A is about the same as all the other shows that targets teenagers as its audience, Smallville is an example.

I really enjoyed the episode where Mike was poisoned, I thought that episode is written well. I think the first 8 of the new KR episodes have filler episodes and there are good ones. It really doesn't seem that bad to me, certainly not the piece of trash you made it out to be.

I am not here to pick fights. I can tell that you love the old series a lot, and so do I. But I am not doing to fault everything about the new show just because it hasn't worked out the details.

As for picking its faults, I just don't think the problem is the terrorist of the week format, or the T&A, not even the campy writing. It's simply not enough Michael and KITT time. If they need the team to help, find some other way for them to interact. Having the team constantly eavesdropping on Michael and KITT kills the show and the chemistry.

By the way, I think even with a better more mature writing, meaning without the campy-approach and the team or the terrorist, as long as the team is cutting into the Michael and KITT time, the show would still be a drag. It just need more Michael and KITT time.

[PHOENIXZERO]

what's ludicrous about that is that since Michael Long is dead, and Michael Knight is not affiliated with the police nor is the operation affiliated with the government, then what he and the company do is ILLEGAL. but of course, if you think of it as a superhero story like Batman and Superman, then I guess it is ok...

but to me, it isn't a comic book superhero story, so that's what i find ludicrous.

FLAG did work with the FBI and state police in several cases so there was some government affiliation, but the government wasn't in control of the operation, Devon also had friends in high places as I'm sure Wilton Knight did as well. Granted there was quite a bit of vigilantism, not to mention a whole lot of B&E but what fun would there be in a show that did things by the book? Every episode would be bogged down with pointless bureaucracy. It was much like a western. Or "a James Bond fantasy" as they had Jennifer Knight call it in Knight of the Juggernaut when she and the board were moving to shut FLAG down.

I don't think it's all bad either, even in the worst episodes I've found at least one, two or more redeeming qualities but a few little bits here in there does not a good episode make to me. This episode isn't even in my bottom three when it comes to the worst episodes.

Look at my first post in this topic where on what I said about this episode. Of course after watching it a second time it wasn't nearly as good as I thought after actually paying attention to it. Still liked it a lot more than I Wanna Rock & Roll All Knight, which IMO was the worst episode, right under Knight In Shining Armor and Knight of the Iguana. But even in those there's at least somethings I liked.

I agree in thinking that A Hard Day's Knight is probably the best episode as well and for as much crap as I've given David Andron for some of the interviews he did around the time before the pilot came out, his episode is the best one of the bunch and I hope it gets better. As much as the KARR thing bugged me a lot in Knight of the Living Dead I would still consider it the second best episode just due to the character interaction we got from it, specifically KITT, Mike and Sarah.

After witnessing two horrible attempts at bringing Knight Rider (KR2000 and TKR) back as well as an awful movie that was trying to cash in on the Knight Rider name without having anything to do with it (KR2010) I badly want this show to succeed. I like the cast and most of the characters, even Zoe has grown on me, I still won't miss Carrie or Torres, both of whom I didn't expect to make it past the initial 13 anyway. But after the last three episodes I've become frustrated with where they were going with this show and unless it is the Obamercial is really to blame for it, two million other people got fed up too.. Only thing is that I'm still around and will still watch, hoping things turn around, if it wasn't Knight Rider I probably wouldn't give it any chance. I have zero expectations for the next episode though due to the fact that it was the second episode shot and no place was found for it. I expected it was really, really bad and NBC has pretty much confirmed that with me by putting it on a night where as few people as possible would likely see it, New Years Eve.

I don't mind some occasional T&A or even a bit of sexual tension but they aren't things that the show should be centered on. I could have done without the close, close ups in this episode, they weren't needed and that brief time could have been used for something better. I would have even taken a few more seconds of people partying at that pool as long as it wasn't zoomed in like that.

Anyway, we'll see where things are really going on January 4th. I know I'm hoping for the best.